Backup OL Observation
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With the first preseason game featuring all the backups on the Oline l thought it would be fun to get into the nitty gritty on their performance. I did a deep dive into the first 3 possessions and did the slo-mo rewind routine to break down their play. I’ll try to hit some highlights and observations here.
Hubbard: if anyone thought he might become a cap casualty this year l would disagree. I think his spot on the team is about as secure as can be, not so much because he dominated in his 17 snaps (he played RT the first 2 series) but because he looked like less of a liability than the other OTs l saw. I counted 2 negative plays. On S1P2 (series 1 play 2) l think he drove his man the wrong way then lost containment near the end of the play, and S2P9 he overstepped expecting a rusher to go outside only to have him deke inside and past him to allow a pressure. He’s a known commodity and l recall 1 game last year that he looked really good filling in for someone. I think he’s the best we got for a backup OT.
Hudson: on the other end of the line Hudson had himself a rough night. He played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and of those 26 l counted 9 negative plays. S1P2, 3, 5, 8, S2P7, 8, S3P2, 4, 5. He got beat outside, he got juked by a blitzing DB, he got beat again outside and pulled the guy down by the arm (uncalled penalty), he got hand fought off, he got run around, he false started, he overran his target, he got beat inside, and he made a mental error in blocking the wrong guy. He strikes me as a decent run blocker but a really questionable pass blocker. When he makes solid contact with a defender better things happen, but l saw too many times weak contact, or a shove or a stiff arm to try to keep a rusher at bay.
Harris: not a great showing for him either. He played 26 snaps too, and l only knocked him twice for negative plays (S2P1 where he got pushed back too close to the QB and S2P3 where he completely whiffed), but my notes are littered with things like “thank goodness it was a quick pass” because the guy was getting bent backwards. Bull rushes seem to be his achilles as he has neither the strength nor technique to hold them off for very long, and that’s bad for a center. He does this thing where he hops backwards, like if a DT squares him up and starts the bulldoze process, he pushes and bends back, then hops back to regain leverage and pushes and bends back again, and keeps doing that as long as the play is still going or he reaches the QB. I did mark a few positive plays, mostly when he’s assigned to move up a level for some downfield blocks. He did pull once which you don’t often see from a Center.
Hance: he played all 26 snaps and my impression is mostly favorable. I did count a couple negative plays (S1P2 where he got beat inside and his man blew up the run, and S3P4 where he got overaggressive trying to chuck his man back and got beat outside), but l noted 3 plus plays too. It’s his aggressiveness that l like. The guy likes to initiate contact. Even on a few pass plays where other Olinemen are dropping back to pass protect, he’s moving forward like he’s run blocking. He can pull a little, and he’s got good instincts and a quick processor to pick up a stunting blitzer or hand one off or bail out a teammate. And he’s got the oomph to stand his ground. I think the guy’s got a future and discipline is all he needs to start one day.
Dunn: also played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and l got a favorable impression of him as well. 2 negative plays noted (S2P6 where he really didn’t have a Jag to block at first so he turned in and committed a blatant block in the back [uncalled] and S3P7 where he got turned around by his man allowing him to slip past him for the tackle), but a whopping 5 plus plays too. He looked pretty good blocking in space and l counted a couple times he pulled or shot through the line to block at the second level. He also seems to have a good processor in picking up and handing off rushers, and at one point found himself fending off 2 Jags when a play broke down, so he can improvise a bit. He seems to rely a little bit on that Kevin Zeitleresque move where he gets a hold of the front of an opposing player’s jersey for a little help in keeping them close, but l think they all do a bit of that.
Senat: he replaced Hubbard at RT in the 3rd series, so 9 plays noted on him, of which l counted 2 stinkers (S3P5 he just couldn’t move his feet quick enough to keep his man off the ball carrier and S3P9 where he over stepped expecting an outside blitz and allowed the guy to deke inside) and one plus play where he delivered a great looking sustained block. He looks like he should have the length and athleticism to play the position.
That’s all l got. As a disclaimer, l’m no expert at this stuff but l like to play Oline analyst sometimes. I also like pot pies.
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With the first preseason game featuring all the backups on the Oline l thought it would be fun to get into the nitty gritty on their performance. I did a deep dive into the first 3 possessions and did the slo-mo rewind routine to break down their play. I’ll try to hit some highlights and observations here.
Hubbard: if anyone thought he might become a cap casualty this year l would disagree. I think his spot on the team is about as secure as can be, not so much because he dominated in his 17 snaps (he played RT the first 2 series) but because he looked like less of a liability than the other OTs l saw. I counted 2 negative plays. On S1P2 (series 1 play 2) l think he drove his man the wrong way then lost containment near the end of the play, and S2P9 he overstepped expecting a rusher to go outside only to have him deke inside and past him to allow a pressure. He’s a known commodity and l recall 1 game last year that he looked really good filling in for someone. I think he’s the best we got for a backup OT.
Hudson: on the other end of the line Hudson had himself a rough night. He played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and of those 26 l counted 9 negative plays. S1P2, 3, 5, 8, S2P7, 8, S3P2, 4, 5. He got beat outside, he got juked by a blitzing DB, he got beat again outside and pulled the guy down by the arm (uncalled penalty), he got hand fought off, he got run around, he false started, he overran his target, he got beat inside, and he made a mental error in blocking the wrong guy. He strikes me as a decent run blocker but a really questionable pass blocker. When he makes solid contact with a defender better things happen, but l saw too many times weak contact, or a shove or a stiff arm to try to keep a rusher at bay.
Harris: not a great showing for him either. He played 26 snaps too, and l only knocked him twice for negative plays (S2P1 where he got pushed back too close to the QB and S2P3 where he completely whiffed), but my notes are littered with things like “thank goodness it was a quick pass” because the guy was getting bent backwards. Bull rushes seem to be his achilles as he has neither the strength nor technique to hold them off for very long, and that’s bad for a center. He does this thing where he hops backwards, like if a DT squares him up and starts the bulldoze process, he pushes and bends back, then hops back to regain leverage and pushes and bends back again, and keeps doing that as long as the play is still going or he reaches the QB. I did mark a few positive plays, mostly when he’s assigned to move up a level for some downfield blocks. He did pull once which you don’t often see from a Center.
Hance: he played all 26 snaps and my impression is mostly favorable. I did count a couple negative plays (S1P2 where he got beat inside and his man blew up the run, and S3P4 where he got overaggressive trying to chuck his man back and got beat outside), but l noted 3 plus plays too. It’s his aggressiveness that l like. The guy likes to initiate contact. Even on a few pass plays where other Olinemen are dropping back to pass protect, he’s moving forward like he’s run blocking. He can pull a little, and he’s got good instincts and a quick processor to pick up a stunting blitzer or hand one off or bail out a teammate. And he’s got the oomph to stand his ground. I think the guy’s got a future and discipline is all he needs to start one day.
Dunn: also played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and l got a favorable impression of him as well. 2 negative plays noted (S2P6 where he really didn’t have a Jag to block at first so he turned in and committed a blatant block in the back [uncalled] and S3P7 where he got turned around by his man allowing him to slip past him for the tackle), but a whopping 5 plus plays too. He looked pretty good blocking in space and l counted a couple times he pulled or shot through the line to block at the second level. He also seems to have a good processor in picking up and handing off rushers, and at one point found himself fending off 2 Jags when a play broke down, so he can improvise a bit. He seems to rely a little bit on that Kevin Zeitleresque move where he gets a hold of the front of an opposing player’s jersey for a little help in keeping them close, but l think they all do a bit of that.
Senat: he replaced Hubbard at RT in the 3rd series, so 9 plays noted on him, of which l counted 2 stinkers (S3P5 he just couldn’t move his feet quick enough to keep his man off the ball carrier and S3P9 where he over stepped expecting an outside blitz and allowed the guy to deke inside) and one plus play where he delivered a great looking sustained block. He looks like he should have the length and athleticism to play the position.
That’s all l got. As a disclaimer, l’m no expert at this stuff but l like to play Oline analyst sometimes. I also like pot pies.
Harris: not a great showing for him either. He played 26 snaps too, and l only knocked him twice for negative plays (S2P1 where he got pushed back too close to the QB and S2P3 where he completely whiffed), but my notes are littered with things like “thank goodness it was a quick pass” because the guy was getting bent backwards. Bull rushes seem to be his achilles as he has neither the strength nor technique to hold them off for very long, and that’s bad for a center. He does this thing where he hops backwards, like if a DT squares him up and starts the bulldoze process, he pushes and bends back, then hops back to regain leverage and pushes and bends back again, and keeps doing that as long as the play is still going or he reaches the QB. I did mark a few positive plays, mostly when he’s assigned to move up a level for some downfield blocks. He did pull once which you don’t often see from a Center.
Dunn: also played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and l got a favorable impression of him as well. 2 negative plays noted (S2P6 where he really didn’t have a Jag to block at first so he turned in and committed a blatant block in the back [uncalled] and S3P7 where he got turned around by his man allowing him to slip past him for the tackle), but a whopping 5 plus plays too. He looked pretty good blocking in space and l counted a couple times he pulled or shot through the line to block at the second level. He also seems to have a good processor in picking up and handing off rushers, and at one point found himself fending off 2 Jags when a play broke down, so he can improvise a bit. He seems to rely a little bit on that Kevin Zeitleresque move where he gets a hold of the front of an opposing player’s jersey for a little help in keeping them close, but l think they all do a bit of that.
Good job @ibleedbrown !
What i did like
.. is Michael Dunn took the first series of the 3rd quarter... Playing at Center ?.. Dunn was not as awful, as what his surrounding mates were the opening 2nd half series..
Was never as high on Nick Harris as Berry was.. I'm starting to think Callahan can't fix Nick Harris.. Weebles Wobble
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
Harris: not a great showing for him either. He played 26 snaps too, and l only knocked him twice for negative plays (S2P1 where he got pushed back too close to the QB and S2P3 where he completely whiffed), but my notes are littered with things like “thank goodness it was a quick pass” because the guy was getting bent backwards. Bull rushes seem to be his achilles as he has neither the strength nor technique to hold them off for very long, and that’s bad for a center. He does this thing where he hops backwards, like if a DT squares him up and starts the bulldoze process, he pushes and bends back, then hops back to regain leverage and pushes and bends back again, and keeps doing that as long as the play is still going or he reaches the QB. I did mark a few positive plays, mostly when he’s assigned to move up a level for some downfield blocks. He did pull once which you don’t often see from a Center.
Dunn: also played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and l got a favorable impression of him as well. 2 negative plays noted (S2P6 where he really didn’t have a Jag to block at first so he turned in and committed a blatant block in the back [uncalled] and S3P7 where he got turned around by his man allowing him to slip past him for the tackle), but a whopping 5 plus plays too. He looked pretty good blocking in space and l counted a couple times he pulled or shot through the line to block at the second level. He also seems to have a good processor in picking up and handing off rushers, and at one point found himself fending off 2 Jags when a play broke down, so he can improvise a bit. He seems to rely a little bit on that Kevin Zeitleresque move where he gets a hold of the front of an opposing player’s jersey for a little help in keeping them close, but l think they all do a bit of that.
Good job @ibleedbrown !
What i did like
.. is Michael Dunn took the first series of the 3rd quarter... Playing at Center ?.. Dunn was not as awful, as what his surrounding mates were the opening 2nd half series..
Was never as high on Nick Harris as Berry was.. I'm starting to think Callahan can't fix Nick Harris.. Weebles Wobble
Good job @ibleedbrown !
What i did like
.. is Michael Dunn took the first series of the 3rd quarter... Playing at Center ?.. Dunn was not as awful, as what his surrounding mates were the opening 2nd half series..
Was never as high on Nick Harris as Berry was.. I'm starting to think Callahan can't fix Nick Harris.. Weebles Wobble
I didn’t realize Dunn played some Center in the 2nd half. That’s great. I watched the first half of the game live and recorded it but haven’t watched the 2nd half yet.
It was an uneasy feeling watching Harris’ play. I almost wonder if a position change to OT is worth trying? He seems to move well enough and might fare better fending off some slightly smaller edge rushers, but l’m not sure he has the ideal body composition for that gig.
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Good job @ibleedbrown !
What i did like
.. is Michael Dunn took the first series of the 3rd quarter... Playing at Center ?.. Dunn was not as awful, as what his surrounding mates were the opening 2nd half series..
Was never as high on Nick Harris as Berry was.. I'm starting to think Callahan can't fix Nick Harris.. Weebles Wobble
I didn’t realize Dunn played some Center in the 2nd half. That’s great. I watched the first half of the game live and recorded it but haven’t watched the 2nd half yet.
It was an uneasy feeling watching Harris’ play. I almost wonder if a position change to OT is worth trying? He seems to move well enough and might fare better fending off some slightly smaller edge rushers, but l’m not sure he has the ideal body composition for that gig.
I didn’t realize Dunn played some Center in the 2nd half. That’s great. I watched the first half of the game live and recorded it but haven’t watched the 2nd half yet.
It was an uneasy feeling watching Harris’ play. I almost wonder if a position change to OT is worth trying? He seems to move well enough and might fare better fending off some slightly smaller edge rushers, but l’m not sure he has the ideal body composition for that gig.
the size difference will jump off the screen at you, whenever you start the 3rd.. Dunn is 6/5..Tretter is 6/4... Harris is all of 5/11.. Harris can move bodies with a running start blocking..Harris gets stonewalled backwards in pass pro.. I'm not seeing a tackle. I'm seeing a PS C/G.. Harris left practice today(rolled up on) Dunn was resting a back (off day)..Blake Hance played Center after Harris exit today... stay tuned..
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends Team Brotherhood-"It's not about You,Me or I. It's about building We"..Hue Jackson -
With the first preseason game featuring all the backups on the Oline l thought it would be fun to get into the nitty gritty on their performance. I did a deep dive into the first 3 possessions and did the slo-mo rewind routine to break down their play. I’ll try to hit some highlights and observations here.
Hubbard: if anyone thought he might become a cap casualty this year l would disagree. I think his spot on the team is about as secure as can be, not so much because he dominated in his 17 snaps (he played RT the first 2 series) but because he looked like less of a liability than the other OTs l saw. I counted 2 negative plays. On S1P2 (series 1 play 2) l think he drove his man the wrong way then lost containment near the end of the play, and S2P9 he overstepped expecting a rusher to go outside only to have him deke inside and past him to allow a pressure. He’s a known commodity and l recall 1 game last year that he looked really good filling in for someone. I think he’s the best we got for a backup OT.
Hudson: on the other end of the line Hudson had himself a rough night. He played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and of those 26 l counted 9 negative plays. S1P2, 3, 5, 8, S2P7, 8, S3P2, 4, 5. He got beat outside, he got juked by a blitzing DB, he got beat again outside and pulled the guy down by the arm (uncalled penalty), he got hand fought off, he got run around, he false started, he overran his target, he got beat inside, and he made a mental error in blocking the wrong guy. He strikes me as a decent run blocker but a really questionable pass blocker. When he makes solid contact with a defender better things happen, but l saw too many times weak contact, or a shove or a stiff arm to try to keep a rusher at bay.
Harris: not a great showing for him either. He played 26 snaps too, and l only knocked him twice for negative plays (S2P1 where he got pushed back too close to the QB and S2P3 where he completely whiffed), but my notes are littered with things like “thank goodness it was a quick pass” because the guy was getting bent backwards. Bull rushes seem to be his achilles as he has neither the strength nor technique to hold them off for very long, and that’s bad for a center. He does this thing where he hops backwards, like if a DT squares him up and starts the bulldoze process, he pushes and bends back, then hops back to regain leverage and pushes and bends back again, and keeps doing that as long as the play is still going or he reaches the QB. I did mark a few positive plays, mostly when he’s assigned to move up a level for some downfield blocks. He did pull once which you don’t often see from a Center.
Hance: he played all 26 snaps and my impression is mostly favorable. I did count a couple negative plays (S1P2 where he got beat inside and his man blew up the run, and S3P4 where he got overaggressive trying to chuck his man back and got beat outside), but l noted 3 plus plays too. It’s his aggressiveness that l like. The guy likes to initiate contact. Even on a few pass plays where other Olinemen are dropping back to pass protect, he’s moving forward like he’s run blocking. He can pull a little, and he’s got good instincts and a quick processor to pick up a stunting blitzer or hand one off or bail out a teammate. And he’s got the oomph to stand his ground. I think the guy’s got a future and discipline is all he needs to start one day.
Dunn: also played all 26 snaps of the first 3 series, and l got a favorable impression of him as well. 2 negative plays noted (S2P6 where he really didn’t have a Jag to block at first so he turned in and committed a blatant block in the back [uncalled] and S3P7 where he got turned around by his man allowing him to slip past him for the tackle), but a whopping 5 plus plays too. He looked pretty good blocking in space and l counted a couple times he pulled or shot through the line to block at the second level. He also seems to have a good processor in picking up and handing off rushers, and at one point found himself fending off 2 Jags when a play broke down, so he can improvise a bit. He seems to rely a little bit on that Kevin Zeitleresque move where he gets a hold of the front of an opposing player’s jersey for a little help in keeping them close, but l think they all do a bit of that.
Senat: he replaced Hubbard at RT in the 3rd series, so 9 plays noted on him, of which l counted 2 stinkers (S3P5 he just couldn’t move his feet quick enough to keep his man off the ball carrier and S3P9 where he over stepped expecting an outside blitz and allowed the guy to deke inside) and one plus play where he delivered a great looking sustained block. He looks like he should have the length and athleticism to play the position.
That’s all l got. As a disclaimer, l’m no expert at this stuff but l like to play Oline analyst sometimes. I also like pot pies.
Hubbard: if anyone thought he might become a cap casualty this year l would disagree.
We know he's not great, but he's the #1 sub. And that's actually kind of an important roster spot.
I should think that this is an important season for Harris. We will be needing to replace Tretter at some point. If it's not going to be Harris...then it might well be a new draft pick.
Our OL didn't power the run game in game 1. We'll be needing our starters to stay healthy.
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I didn’t realize Dunn played some Center in the 2nd half. That’s great. I watched the first half of the game live and recorded it but haven’t watched the 2nd half yet.
It was an uneasy feeling watching Harris’ play. I almost wonder if a position change to OT is worth trying? He seems to move well enough and might fare better fending off some slightly smaller edge rushers, but l’m not sure he has the ideal body composition for that gig.
the size difference will jump off the screen at you, whenever you start the 3rd.. Dunn is 6/5..Tretter is 6/4... Harris is all of 5/11.. Harris can move bodies with a running start blocking..Harris gets stonewalled backwards in pass pro.. I'm not seeing a tackle. I'm seeing a PS C/G.. Harris left practice today(rolled up on) Dunn was resting a back (off day)..Blake Hance played Center after Harris exit today... stay tuned..
the size difference will jump off the screen at you, whenever you start the 3rd.. Dunn is 6/5..Tretter is 6/4... Harris is all of 5/11.. Harris can move bodies with a running start blocking..Harris gets stonewalled backwards in pass pro.. I'm not seeing a tackle. I'm seeing a PS C/G.. Harris left practice today(rolled up on) Dunn was resting a back (off day)..Blake Hance played Center after Harris exit today... stay tuned..
I just finished up the 1st preseason game. Dunn certainly held his own better playing Center. Of note l don’t think l saw him try a single shotgun snap.
Our backup OTs are not good. I would have liked to have seen Forbes get some snaps at OT. Unless Hudson makes significant improvement l’d try to slip him onto the PS. Maybe use the protected designation if they think another team might try to snag him.
Right now l see Hubbard, Hance and Dunn as the most worthy backups on the line.
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