Wimbley's Sack Was Vrs Titans' Best Olineman

Tobalaz

@ithika said:
Lewis and Urlacher seem to be in the top ten every year but your right and doesn't mean anything lol.

They also run in more aggressive defenses where the linemen stunt more frequently and gives them space to attack the line after their reads instead of being assigned to sit back and wait for someone to come to you.

Captain Cheesedick

and isn't he one of our starters?

ballpeen

@roach said:
Jackson led the NFL in tackles. So what? Here's a news flash- when you make tackles 5 or 6 yards downfield, your defense is going to be on the field a long time. You will have many plays in which to pad that tackling stat.
i'd rather have a top 5 defense where nobody leads the NFL in any particular personal stat.

I agree. The only two stats that interest me from a defensive standpoint is points allowed per game and turnovers.

If your D stands near the top in those two categories, it has done it's part in putting the team in a position to win...then it is up to the O to score some points to fill in the other half of the puzzle.

"It's Christmas morning and Santa's comin' down the chimney!"

ITHIKA

@ballpeen said:
I agree. The only two stats that interest me from a defensive standpoint is points allowed per game and turnovers.
If your D stands near the top in those two categories, it has done it's part in putting the team in a position to win...then it is up to the O to score some points to fill in the other half of the puzzle.

Actually the Browns were third amongst all the NFL in takeaways last season. Guess who was 1st and 2nd, the Ravens and Bears with Lewis and Urlacher. Now telling me having a guy thats in the top ten in tackles is bad is just outlandish. If there's anything that has to do with Dqwell having a high tackle rate its that he has the best DT in all of football tying up blockers in front of him, not that he's making tackles 10 yards down the field or because the D is always on the field. Come on guys give this defense some credit? We all know the huge problem with this defense was one the scheme and two the fact we couldn't stop the run 28th in the league 151 rushing ypg. Against the pass we were substantially better ranked 14th in the NFL with 204 passing ypg. As well the Browns ranked 16th in PPG to with a modest 21.9 ppg. There is no reason this defense should not improve these numbers with a softer schedule and a much better defensive game plan. As far as Dqwell goes the guy is the real deal and you all will see that this season. Once again elite no, very good YES! I think I've made my point....

ballpeen

Dont; get me wrong, i am not down on Jackson..I just don't pay much attention to his tackle numbers.

Flugel

@roach said:
Jackson led the NFL in tackles. So what? Here's a news flash- when you make tackles 5 or 6 yards downfield, your defense is going to be on the field a long time. You will have many plays in which to pad that tackling stat.
i'd rather have a top 5 defense where nobody leads the NFL in any particular personal stat.

Good point Ed!

Stats CAN be misleading sometimes or Wali Rainer would have had tenure here. When you're watching GOOD ILBers in this league - they're making the majority of their tackles near the line of scrimmage and they're rarely the bullseye of the opponent's game plans. And when we have good performance from the Nose tackle in front of them - it keeps BIG bodies off the LBers and makes their job much easier.

2 years ago I had Ronnie Brown in fantasy football so I was paying particular attention to things like receptions. Miami's game plan vs Cleveland in their 1-15 season was to get Ronnie Brown passes in the hook zones. He finished the day with 9 receptions for 73 yards on top of a decent day running the ball. Anyway, Jackson made all 9 tackles where the avg gain was 8 yards. More specifically, he was the bullseye of the opponent's game plan. When they're coming right at him - he doesn't have to go out of his way to make the tackle. I'm not thinking he was enormously respected if they kept trying to get their best weapon on his hook zone.

When a 5th string TE named Mulligan beats Jackson in that SAME hook zone for a TD and he was also lifeless against their starters on their TD drive - let's at least acknowledge he wasn't wonderful. That doesn't make you a BAD Browns' fan by any means. We ALL want Jackson to emerge into Mike Johnson but he doesn't have his impact yet and that's mainly because of WHERE he makes most of his tackles. That being the case, I think he's closer to Wali Rainer than he is Mike Johnson at this time. I want to put tobasco sauce on those words and eat them by mid season. Promise.

- Tom F.

DTBH

Jackson actually spoke to the legitimacy of this argument that tackle numbers are far from the only thing that matters...

"The tackles are good, don't get me wrong," Jackson said. "But every guy who plays linebacker in this league can tackle. I want to make those special plays. I want to be a special player. That's what I work toward every day."

If you don't notice him virtually all game but you look in the box score and see that he got 13 tackles, that isn't the most dominant game he could have. He needs to be making plays at the line of scrimmage, tackles for losses, a sack here or there, etc.

http://news-herald.com/articles/2009/09/02...s/nh1378023.txt

Theres some other good stuff in there too about the LBers and Rob Ryan.

LCDawgFan13

@roach said:
Jackson led the NFL in tackles. So what? Here's a news flash- when you make tackles 5 or 6 yards downfield, your defense is going to be on the field a long time. You will have many plays in which to pad that tackling stat.
i'd rather have a top 5 defense where nobody leads the NFL in any particular personal stat.

Perhaps we should look further into how many of his tackles "downfield" are a direct result of a missed tackle or just bad play by the D-linemen? Jackson plays a little mop-up duty for them! Imagine, if he wasn't making those tackles, how bad our defense would look! Give the guy some credit where it is due. Why is everyone trying to knock down one of the few consistant players this team has?

DTBH

Like the other say, Wali Rainer led the NFL in tackles once. There's more to it than that and if you don't think so you're just extremely amateur at analyzing the position.

DTBH

@dtbh said:
Like the other say, Wali Rainer led the NFL in tackles once. There's more to it than that and if you don't think so you're just extremely amateur at analyzing the position.

Wali Rainer never led the league in tackles.

Flugel

@lcdawgfan13 said:
Perhaps we should look further into how many of his tackles "downfield" are a direct result of a missed tackle or just bad play by the D-linemen? Jackson plays a little mop-up duty for them! Imagine, if he wasn't making those tackles, how bad our defense would look! Give the guy some credit where it is due. Why is everyone trying to knock down one of the few consistant players this team has?

I noticed in 2007 that Sean Jones made an insane # of tackles because our LBers weren't up to snuff. In fact, our LBing was so less than impressive - he got caught cheating up into the box on many an occasion and got burned in the passing game.

My comments about Jackson STARTED about last week's game. Watch Tenn's FIRST TD scoring drive and let me know when and where Jackson mattered. I've seen it twice. He had a BAD night. And later they couldn't wait to get a 5th string TE that won't make Tenn's roster matched up with Jackson in his hook zone and it became a TD from the man named Mulligan. Speaking of mulligans, HOPEFULLY that game was just a mulligan for Jackson.

I would say that on all the draft days Savage had - the guy that brought the biggest smile to my face was Jackson. I've sported high expectations for him ever since that day. I STILL have them but I want to be honest when I say I haven't seen a difference maker in him yet. I don't think anyone is pissed about a guy that makes ALOT of tackles. However, I ALSO think your LBers with the better 1st step instincts tend to make more plays at the line of scrimmage. THAT is the one area I want to see Jackson grow in. With Shaun Rogers in front of him keeping the OGs away from him - I'd gladly sacrifice tackle frequencies for stops at the line of scrimmage. That's HOW you keep the chains from moving. Defenses that get OFF the field shouldn't have a guy leading the NFL in tackles should they? Not only that but if someone has a STUD - teams try to avoid him which impacts tackle volumes as well.

Part of the way I watch football is I'm always looking for where and how this team can improve. I'll probably NEVER lose the mentality of a player that always wanted to resolve the bad instead of looking at what went well. It's how I'm wired so please don't think I do this to be a jerk. I'm probably most critical of the guys I have the highest hopes for. Jackson doesn't SUCK by any means. That said, if he gets the right coaching blended with the right schemes and surrounding personnel - the old saying is "you ain't seen nothing yet." I mean this optimistically like the sky can be the limit. He's not there until we see him calling the line of scrimmage home sweet home if you know what I mean.

I'm looking forward to us all tuning into where our LBers are making stops this year. Let's pay attention to this as a group and shoot the Schlitz about them every week. A good way to watch these guys is take note of WHO is blocking them (oline or lead back). And then note where the stop is made in relation to where the ball was snapped from.

- Tom F.

Thaak

one thing I noticed about Wimbley's sack, is that he actually readjusted his move to the inside. That's huge considering a knock after the last couple years was that he was a one-trick pony.