Conundrum for Woody and the rest of us
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The number one reason for students doing poorly in academics is the same across all races. Lack of interest by the parent.
"Systemic Racism" doesn't even crack the top 5, but if it helps black parents do their job, let them run with it.
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I don't feel any major conundrum. We have posters here falling over their supposed "ideals" pretty frequently... but this seems pretty straightforward
After reading the first article:
- Systemic racism absolutely exists
- Math can be used to push racist narratives (just like math can be used for anything)
- Tied to the point above, it is important for everyone to have a good grasp of math (and science) so they have the tools needed to see through biased data and propaganda. Supposed "expert" studies, graphs, and polls are posted here all of the time that can be easily torn apart with a basic understanding of math.
- I don't think you necessarily need to start pushing lessons into math that deal with racist issues. I get the point is to use math to show how things are systemically disproportionate, etc., but I'd like math to be outside of all of that. To my earlier point though, knowing math would allow individuals to see these issues, so if some lessons are scattered in here or there for older kids it might not be the worst thing.
- Math itself isn't racist.
- Racism can lead to some not getting the opportunity or training to learn math as well as others
- Math is objective. I don't get the point of saying it is subjective. There is one answer (basically). Grading is not subjective.
After reading the second article:
- I was a little over two years ahead in math through high school. This proposal has students wait until 9th grade to take Algebra I. What would I have done for two years in middle school?
- The examples of past successes are in English and History. How those two classes operate is very different than math. While I realize I said I think we'd be better off if everyone had a better understanding of math, I also understand it isn't for everyone. So people just intuitively get it more. That is less of a consideration with more subjective classes like History or English.
- My high school had a lower level, a standard level, and an honors/AP level for the main subjects. If you want to move the lower in with the standard, fine, but I wouldn't bring down students taking advanced math.
- I think the problem here is any racial inequity that comes before these math classes. They said there was racial bias (controlled for other parameters) in minority students getting recommended for gifted classes. The answer isn't to call everyone gifted, or "honors for all", it is to address the racial bias that prevented that gifted student from moving up to begin with. Look at socioeconomic situations, at home situations, available resources, etc. Level the playing field leading up to this point. I think that addresses the situation at hand without pulling down students that are succeeding.
- As a Jr and Sr I was basically taking classes with the same 10-15 kids each day. All honors/AP is a very specific group, and you don't have a lot of options in classes. I was fortunate enough to be able to attend a large, diverse school like Michigan to meet people with backgrounds different than my own. I can see the benefit of integrating / mixing up classes more in high school, but do that with courses that aren't "core" courses.
- Not everyone learns the same. And someone that intuitively understands math better is going to learn it differently than someone that struggles.
- I took all of the HS math courses I could by my Jr year and as a Sr I took Calc III and Matrix Algebra through Cleveland State. The class was before HS (at 6am) and there were only 5 of us in it. If we had to slow down our learning to allow everyone to keep up we never get that opportunity. Assuming I still get into Michigan (as my curriculum wouldn't have been as rigorous, something that is looked at in admissions for top schools), I have to take extra courses, affecting my time there.
- I can't even imagine how unbelievably bored I would have been for years if everyone got forced onto the same math path. I think this can work with more subjective courses, but I just don't see it in hard sciences.
I think I covered everything.
To summarize - Systemic racism exists and it is affecting the opportunities for minority students to get into accelerated courses in school, including math. The solution is to address the issues that are creating that disparity in the first place, not to mix every skill level into one class. There are benefits to diverse classes, and that can be incorporated into other, non-core coursework. An "honors for all" approach in math would affect those that are more "advanced" and hold them back. Remove the lower level courses, address underlying systemic racism issues, and find other ways to integrate students, but don't hold back gifted students.
As more of this is implemented, more studies exist, and more results are seen, I'd be happy to learn more about it. Maybe there is something I am missing. I am open-minded. But as of right now, knowing how much these courses affected and improved my life, I just hate the idea of seeing them go.
I hope you all enjoyed my Ted Talk
Math itself isn't racist.
You should've stopped right there.
Math, along with physical size and prowess was my gift. Math, is what it is. You either get it or you don't. Regardless of race or ethnic background.
Music, is an understanding of the intervals (math) in time, and tone.. And feeling.. The first two are easily taught.. The third is the gift..
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
Systemic racism is a myth. Still whining about "systemic racism" in 2022 becomes a copout excuse. Ben Carson said he grew up at a time when "real" systemic racism existed. Systemic racism is a convenient excuse for those in denial of their shortcomings, taking no responsibility while placing the blame elsewhere. The 'systemic racism" card fits the bill.
It's ignoring the elephant in the room.
Denzel Washington talks about the elephant in the room.
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I know, I know, it must be systemic racism.
Baltimore City Schools has a "one fail" policy, which states, “students cannot be retained a second time prior to ninth grade.” That means students go to the next grade no matter how little work is completed. North Avenue has pointed to studies showing students learn better with grade-level peers saying, “multiple retentions should be a last resort for students.”
“We got smart and bright kids. I mean, these kids aren't failing because they can't do it. They're failing because they know they can, that’s the difference,” Marvin Lee, a former Baltimore City schools teacher told Project Baltimore, in October 2020.
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Math itself isn't racist.
You should've stopped right there.
Math, along with physical size and prowess was my gift. Math, is what it is. You either get it or you don't. Regardless of race or ethnic background.
Music, is an understanding of the intervals (math) in time, and tone.. And feeling.. The first two are easily taught.. The third is the gift..
You should've stopped right there.
Math, along with physical size and prowess was my gift. Math, is what it is. You either get it or you don't. Regardless of race or ethnic background.
Music, is an understanding of the intervals (math) in time, and tone.. And feeling.. The first two are easily taught.. The third is the gift..
Funny you mention this... I have built my style on intervals.. Yet.. I have always sucked at Math... I have always had good natural time... Tone was born in my fingers and ears....Feeling was always a natural part of my playing along with being naturally dynamic.. But the Math part has always stumped me... I can't seem to figure out how I was able to latch on to music being hearing impaired my most of my whole life...
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Systemic racism is a myth. Still whining about "systemic racism" in 2022 becomes a copout excuse. Ben Carson said he grew up at a time when "real" systemic racism existed. Systemic racism is a convenient excuse for those in denial of their shortcomings, taking no responsibility while placing the blame elsewhere. The 'systemic racism" card fits the bill.
It's ignoring the elephant in the room.
Denzel Washington talks about the elephant in the room.
Systemic racism is a myth. Still whining about "systemic racism" in 2022 becomes a copout excuse. Ben Carson said he grew up at a time when "real" systemic racism existed. Systemic racism is a convenient excuse for those in denial of their shortcomings, taking no responsibility while placing the blame elsewhere. The 'systemic racism" card fits the bill.
It's ignoring the elephant in the room.
Denzel Washington talks about the elephant in the room.
There has been no systemic racism in this country? Is that really what you are saying?
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Systemic racism is a myth. Still whining about "systemic racism" in 2022 becomes a copout excuse. Ben Carson said he grew up at a time when "real" systemic racism existed. Systemic racism is a convenient excuse for those in denial of their shortcomings, taking no responsibility while placing the blame elsewhere. The 'systemic racism" card fits the bill.
It's ignoring the elephant in the room.
Denzel Washington talks about the elephant in the room.
There has been no systemic racism in this country? Is that really what you are saying?
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No one was yelling systemic racism when there was record low unemployment in 2019 for all races…
Politicians are some sick bastards, more so the democrats right now.
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Race grifting at it's finest. America's number 1 export.
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