Schefter: Watson to Browns
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Maybe it's just me but surely we could have found an untainted QB with those 3 1st rounders in trade value. It's called move up for the best QB. Maybe not this year for I just don't see one that is a sure fire SB level QB. But surely within the next couple of years while we stack the rest of the chips onto the team to give him the best chance to succeed.
Too much baggage added to that makes it untenable. Throw in a key injury to said Mr. Watson and the Browns are once again head clowns of the donkey league.
My thinking Tex is the Browns coaches have been checking out those screen shots Tia has been posting, and a lot more. Came to the same conclusion the Rams did with Goff... The obvious thinking is Baker may be good, but he's not good enough- and after four years his shortcomings aren't fixable. So why muddle through 2022 with (maybe) a one and done in the playoffs? Then rinse wash repeat go QB shopping in 2023? Garrett and the rest of the crew will be that two years older come 2024 when new QB is ready.
Berry thinks, this is a Super Bowl roster, so all in. He's seen enough of Super Joe down Cinci way to realize we won't even win the division with Baker. Then there's the murder's row of stud qbs waiting in the AFC West. I wish we could have gotten a top 5 qb without Deshawn's baggage, but I'm not the one who made that decision.
My thinking Tex is the Browns coaches have been checking out those screen shots Tia has been posting, and a lot more. Came to the same conclusion the Rams did with Goff... The obvious thinking is Baker may be good, but he's not good enough- and after four years his shortcomings aren't fixable. So why muddle through 2022 with (maybe) a one and done in the playoffs? Then rinse wash repeat go QB shopping in 2023? Garrett and the rest of the crew will be that two years older come 2024 when new QB is ready.
Berry thinks, this is a Super Bowl roster, so all in. He's seen enough of Super Joe down Cinci way to realize we won't even win the division with Baker. Then there's the murder's row of stud qbs waiting in the AFC West. I wish we could have gotten a top 5 qb without Deshawn's baggage, but I'm not the one who made that decision.
We already saw Kyle Shanahan (who would love to stick it to Jimmy) - get 7 wins out of this team with a guy like Brian Hoyer using play-action to open up success in the passing game. At the beginning of last season, they showed Baker had excellent/elite passing stats in week 1 and during the season before EDIT: (when throwing out of play-action). I think we can all agree a guy like Baker can do better than Hoying did in Kyle's offense in SF. That said, Hoying kind of flat-lined the last 6-7 weeks that year we went 7-9.
SF could give up a 2nd round pick for Baker if they were interested. Seattle could as well especially if they are planning on drafting a QB in round 1. We gotta get something. This guy won a playoff game in January of 2021 for a team that went 11-5 in the regular season.
New Orleans and Atlanta are also worth exploring. Same with Indy if they still have some interest.
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first off why are you calling are new q.b deshlong for ? if you dont like it then just leave
second what kind of drugs are you taking to think we could get a 1st or 2nd for mayfield at best a 3rd more than likely a 4th just to get his money off the books
First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
EXCELLENT POST ! Try being 71 and finally being so disgusted that you happily go outdoors more, travel more, camp and fish more.
All these years, a serious tradition. But I have come to believe that the nfl and the browns have quit caring about the fans. This latest move will divide the lockerroom, and some free agents will go "wtf?" and not come to the Browns, I suspect. And, fans are obviously divided badly now. So, the tv contracts are so rich, the nfl teams can get as sleazy as they want to be because they get $$$$$$$$$$$ making controversial.
We don't need this drama - some will applaud it - but I think most will be disgusted. Three first round picks? I would have loved it if they drafted qb's the next three years, first round, compared to this. To me, it's a slap in the face to the fanbase that doesn't buy into the watson baggage and drama. The haslams and berry should be ashamed - it's worse than giving up your entire draft to get Ricky Williams, the running back. The browns mistake will go down in infamy I think -
No more - I've lost interest - I won't cheer on a slutty? qb while parents all over now-tainted "Browns Town" try to explain why the qb has 22 women suing him, and how he is not playing because he was suspended for.....half a season?
I would rather sit in the woods and watch squirrels. Pressure can green beans. Read up more on wild plants for food and medicine.
Treasure hunt in our woods. (surely there's a can of gold coins out there somewhere) LOL LOL.
Everybody has their own "red line" - this is mine. It's too bad. and I think most all Browns fans who are no longer with us, and would never have been sleazy "woke" ....would go elsewhere for a tradition of watching a team.
and, I believe Baker goes to a team that beats the Browns this coming season. You betcha.
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first off why are you calling are new q.b deshlong for ? if you dont like it then just leave
second what kind of drugs are you taking to think we could get a 1st or 2nd for mayfield at best a 3rd more than likely a 4th just to get his money off the books
First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
Couple of things Tom...
1) tia posted some stuff showing Bakers flaws were evident even before he was injured. The Browns saw what I like to call Andy Dalton syndrome in Baker. An average QB who can get you to the playoffs if everything around him is optimally perfect. I'm forced to see the goings on in Bungle Land... Throw in a couple WRs, and a top 5 QB = Super Bowl. And FYI look out for the Queen City Kitties in 2022... They've totally rebuilt their glaring weakness- their O-line.
2) Yes, $230 million guaranteed sets a new bar Flugs. But need I remind you it was just four short years ago Cousins' $80 million guaranteed was considered totally nuts? Let me opine on something that may make it not quite as nuts as it sounds... DirecTv isn't going to be able to re-up with the NFL after 2022 on the Sunday ticket package of $1 billion a year. Reports are Disney already has an offer of $2.5 BILLION on the table for the package, and some are speculating it could go a lot higher than that. If it goes as high as $5 billion+ my handy dandy calculator tells me (after the owners take their cut) that alone could add $100 million a year to each team's cap space.
3) We can say Baker is gonzo, but I'm not going to speculate what his damaged goods worth is to other teams in the NFL.
4) Yes, as I told Pat Mahomo in another thread "Image is Everything". And Watson's massage parlor antics don't project a good image for the league. But LOL Robert Kraft getting charged with soliciting prostitution didn't? Seems old Roger was scared shitless to discipline a guy who helps write his checks.
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First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
EXCELLENT POST ! Try being 71 and finally being so disgusted that you happily go outdoors more, travel more, camp and fish more.
All these years, a serious tradition. But I have come to believe that the nfl and the browns have quit caring about the fans. This latest move will divide the lockerroom, and some free agents will go "wtf?" and not come to the Browns, I suspect. And, fans are obviously divided badly now. So, the tv contracts are so rich, the nfl teams can get as sleazy as they want to be because they get $$$$$$$$$$$ making controversial.
We don't need this drama - some will applaud it - but I think most will be disgusted. Three first round picks? I would have loved it if they drafted qb's the next three years, first round, compared to this. To me, it's a slap in the face to the fanbase that doesn't buy into the watson baggage and drama. The haslams and berry should be ashamed - it's worse than giving up your entire draft to get Ricky Williams, the running back. The browns mistake will go down in infamy I think -
No more - I've lost interest - I won't cheer on a slutty? qb while parents all over now-tainted "Browns Town" try to explain why the qb has 22 women suing him, and how he is not playing because he was suspended for.....half a season?
I would rather sit in the woods and watch squirrels. Pressure can green beans. Read up more on wild plants for food and medicine.
Treasure hunt in our woods. (surely there's a can of gold coins out there somewhere) LOL LOL.
Everybody has their own "red line" - this is mine. It's too bad. and I think most all Browns fans who are no longer with us, and would never have been sleazy "woke" ....would go elsewhere for a tradition of watching a team.
and, I believe Baker goes to a team that beats the Browns this coming season. You betcha.
EXCELLENT POST ! Try being 71 and finally being so disgusted that you happily go outdoors more, travel more, camp and fish more.
All these years, a serious tradition. But I have come to believe that the nfl and the browns have quit caring about the fans. This latest move will divide the lockerroom, and some free agents will go "wtf?" and not come to the Browns, I suspect. And, fans are obviously divided badly now. So, the tv contracts are so rich, the nfl teams can get as sleazy as they want to be because they get $$$$$$$$$$$ making controversial.
We don't need this drama - some will applaud it - but I think most will be disgusted. Three first round picks? I would have loved it if they drafted qb's the next three years, first round, compared to this. To me, it's a slap in the face to the fanbase that doesn't buy into the watson baggage and drama. The haslams and berry should be ashamed - it's worse than giving up your entire draft to get Ricky Williams, the running back. The browns mistake will go down in infamy I think -
No more - I've lost interest - I won't cheer on a slutty? qb while parents all over now-tainted "Browns Town" try to explain why the qb has 22 women suing him, and how he is not playing because he was suspended for.....half a season?
I would rather sit in the woods and watch squirrels. Pressure can green beans. Read up more on wild plants for food and medicine.
Treasure hunt in our woods. (surely there's a can of gold coins out there somewhere) LOL LOL.
Everybody has their own "red line" - this is mine. It's too bad. and I think most all Browns fans who are no longer with us, and would never have been sleazy "woke" ....would go elsewhere for a tradition of watching a team.
and, I believe Baker goes to a team that beats the Browns this coming season. You betcha.
We're about the same age Cal..So my 0.02... Yeah- 1964 was a long time ago, and I've always been hopeful I'd see the Browns win a Super Bowl before I check out. BUT not at the cost of the Browns effectively selling their souls to get one. From my religious POV, God can and is able to forgive anything, but some fans won't. Heck, I haven't forgotten Ray Lewis' little "incident" at the Atlanta Olympics. So, by the same standard a Cleveland Super Bowl win will always be tainted to some fans if Watson is the one who gets them to the Football Promised Land.
The NFL has turned into a money making machine Cal, and I have no idea where it will end, but there has to be a ceiling somewhere. Not anytime soon though, as I mentioned to Flugs, there's no shortage of corporations willing to throw massive amounts of money at the NFL for the Sunday Ticket package. The owners could care less as long as the Benjamin's keep rolling in. Joe Q fan has long ago been priced out of the marked, look at what the price of a Super Bowl ticket costs.
I'm more financially invested in this team than most with my Season Tickets and shelling out $$ for Sunday ticket. Though referring to the above, I'm not sure if the $165 bucks a ticket and 420 miles of driving to a game is worth it to me anymore.Those season tickets now are for the nephews and nieces than me. (My pal Don who's the ticket holder of record rarely even goes to games anymore, and he lives in the Cleveland area) So those tickets will be used by the family long after Deshawn is just a distant memory. So as to how I'll feel in six months when the season starts? It's something I can't predict.
Ah, I'll try to look on the bright side of this- maybe we just have a young, rich, and not too bright guy who enjoyed living the Playboy lifestyle. Can he leave that behind? I sure hope so, but history is against it.
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Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
Couple of things Tom...
1) tia posted some stuff showing Bakers flaws were evident even before he was injured. The Browns saw what I like to call Andy Dalton syndrome in Baker. An average QB who can get you to the playoffs if everything around him is optimally perfect. I'm forced to see the goings on in Bungle Land... Throw in a couple WRs, and a top 5 QB = Super Bowl. And FYI look out for the Queen City Kitties in 2022... They've totally rebuilt their glaring weakness- their O-line.
2) Yes, $230 million guaranteed sets a new bar Flugs. But need I remind you it was just four short years ago Cousins' $80 million guaranteed was considered totally nuts? Let me opine on something that may make it not quite as nuts as it sounds... DirecTv isn't going to be able to re-up with the NFL after 2022 on the Sunday ticket package of $1 billion a year. Reports are Disney already has an offer of $2.5 BILLION on the table for the package, and some are speculating it could go a lot higher than that. If it goes as high as $5 billion+ my handy dandy calculator tells me (after the owners take their cut) that alone could add $100 million a year to each team's cap space.
3) We can say Baker is gonzo, but I'm not going to speculate what his damaged goods worth is to other teams in the NFL.
4) Yes, as I told Pat Mahomo in another thread "Image is Everything". And Watson's massage parlor antics don't project a good image for the league. But LOL Robert Kraft getting charged with soliciting prostitution didn't? Seems old Roger was scared shitless to discipline a guy who helps write his checks.
Couple of things Tom...
1) tia posted some stuff showing Bakers flaws were evident even before he was injured. The Browns saw what I like to call Andy Dalton syndrome in Baker. An average QB who can get you to the playoffs if everything around him is optimally perfect. I'm forced to see the goings on in Bungle Land... Throw in a couple WRs, and a top 5 QB = Super Bowl. And FYI look out for the Queen City Kitties in 2022... They've totally rebuilt their glaring weakness- their O-line.
2) Yes, $230 million guaranteed sets a new bar Flugs. But need I remind you it was just four short years ago Cousins' $80 million guaranteed was considered totally nuts? Let me opine on something that may make it not quite as nuts as it sounds... DirecTv isn't going to be able to re-up with the NFL after 2022 on the Sunday ticket package of $1 billion a year. Reports are Disney already has an offer of $2.5 BILLION on the table for the package, and some are speculating it could go a lot higher than that. If it goes as high as $5 billion+ my handy dandy calculator tells me (after the owners take their cut) that alone could add $100 million a year to each team's cap space.
3) We can say Baker is gonzo, but I'm not going to speculate what his damaged goods worth is to other teams in the NFL.
4) Yes, as I told Pat Mahomo in another thread "Image is Everything". And Watson's massage parlor antics don't project a good image for the league. But LOL Robert Kraft getting charged with soliciting prostitution didn't? Seems old Roger was scared shitless to discipline a guy who helps write his checks.
All that is fine and dandy; but I saw this team win 11 games and rathouse Pittsburgh 48-37 in the playoffs to see what is possible. That already separates him from Andy Dalton. One of our losses was a 47-42 loss on Thursday Night Football only because Baltimore got the ball last. Anyone call out the defense that night while the offense put 6 TDs (no FGs) on the board? One of the best games of that year according to the announcers of it. Anyone show film of Baker that night? Of course not. Whether you want to admit this or not, in the KC playoff game (at KC) - Baker hit Higgins with a pass that should have been the GW score late in the 4th qtr. Guess who fumbled 3 inches in front of the goal line for a touchback? Higgins. We can pretend that never happened but a more talented WR secures that football or gets to the goal line quicker. That TD would have put the Browns in the AFC Championship with the QB I keep reading just can't win. You've seen him do it.
Shifting gears to now. I was thinking that giving Baker his final year of the contract, keeping our next 3 1st round picks and having an opportunity to draft one of these QBs (Pickett, Corral, Strong, Willis) at #13 overall wouldn't have us worrying about the length of a suspension. Roger won't be afraid to make an example of Watson; because it sure looks like he's excited about doing his own investigation. The last time he investigated what a dirt bag Daniel Snyder - the only person that got punished was Jon Gruden (from another organization). Stay tuned? We have no choice.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
first off why are you calling are new q.b deshlong for ? if you dont like it then just leave
second what kind of drugs are you taking to think we could get a 1st or 2nd for mayfield at best a 3rd more than likely a 4th just to get his money off the books
First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
I sorta allways get a little pissed about board members calling are players disparaging names One that pissed me off was gerbal peppers I have always backed are players (ya even johnny stupid face even tho i knew i was just bullshitting myself) and for baker there is seattle and carolina seem to be in the market for a starting qb so maybe a 6th or 7th round pick or just a flat out release (which would suck cause we would still be on the hook for some monnies )
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Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
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Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
but from who ?
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Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
but from who ?
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Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
The musical chairs took another spin. Atlanta took a third to get Matt Ryan and his contract out of Georgia. so what's that put Baker's value at? 4th round if we're lucky?
There's still a few teams that are looking for a chair before the music stops.
Baker's market is drying up faster than a jug of water in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Saints... Resign Winston. Colts are out of the market. Atlanta brings in Marotta.
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Man, if the Browns only get a 6th or 7th round pick for our former starting QB of 3 years that was a #1 overall pick, then that would silence just about anyone in regards to his perceived football skill set.
I do see us getting a much, much higher draft pick(s) than that.
The musical chairs took another spin. Atlanta took a third to get Matt Ryan and his contract out of Georgia. so what's that put Baker's value at? 4th round if we're lucky?
There's still a few teams that are looking for a chair before the music stops.
Baker's market is drying up faster than a jug of water in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Saints... Resign Winston. Colts are out of the market. Atlanta brings in Marotta.
The musical chairs took another spin. Atlanta took a third to get Matt Ryan and his contract out of Georgia. so what's that put Baker's value at? 4th round if we're lucky?
Baker's market is drying up faster than a jug of water in the middle of the Sahara Desert. Saints... Resign Winston. Colts are out of the market. Atlanta brings in Marotta.
Man, how far the dude has fallen is pretty astonishing.
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Couple of things Tom...
1) tia posted some stuff showing Bakers flaws were evident even before he was injured. The Browns saw what I like to call Andy Dalton syndrome in Baker. An average QB who can get you to the playoffs if everything around him is optimally perfect. I'm forced to see the goings on in Bungle Land... Throw in a couple WRs, and a top 5 QB = Super Bowl. And FYI look out for the Queen City Kitties in 2022... They've totally rebuilt their glaring weakness- their O-line.
2) Yes, $230 million guaranteed sets a new bar Flugs. But need I remind you it was just four short years ago Cousins' $80 million guaranteed was considered totally nuts? Let me opine on something that may make it not quite as nuts as it sounds... DirecTv isn't going to be able to re-up with the NFL after 2022 on the Sunday ticket package of $1 billion a year. Reports are Disney already has an offer of $2.5 BILLION on the table for the package, and some are speculating it could go a lot higher than that. If it goes as high as $5 billion+ my handy dandy calculator tells me (after the owners take their cut) that alone could add $100 million a year to each team's cap space.
3) We can say Baker is gonzo, but I'm not going to speculate what his damaged goods worth is to other teams in the NFL.
4) Yes, as I told Pat Mahomo in another thread "Image is Everything". And Watson's massage parlor antics don't project a good image for the league. But LOL Robert Kraft getting charged with soliciting prostitution didn't? Seems old Roger was scared shitless to discipline a guy who helps write his checks.
All that is fine and dandy; but I saw this team win 11 games and rathouse Pittsburgh 48-37 in the playoffs to see what is possible. That already separates him from Andy Dalton. One of our losses was a 47-42 loss on Thursday Night Football only because Baltimore got the ball last. Anyone call out the defense that night while the offense put 6 TDs (no FGs) on the board? One of the best games of that year according to the announcers of it. Anyone show film of Baker that night? Of course not. Whether you want to admit this or not, in the KC playoff game (at KC) - Baker hit Higgins with a pass that should have been the GW score late in the 4th qtr. Guess who fumbled 3 inches in front of the goal line for a touchback? Higgins. We can pretend that never happened but a more talented WR secures that football or gets to the goal line quicker. That TD would have put the Browns in the AFC Championship with the QB I keep reading just can't win. You've seen him do it.
Shifting gears to now. I was thinking that giving Baker his final year of the contract, keeping our next 3 1st round picks and having an opportunity to draft one of these QBs (Pickett, Corral, Strong, Willis) at #13 overall wouldn't have us worrying about the length of a suspension. Roger won't be afraid to make an example of Watson; because it sure looks like he's excited about doing his own investigation. The last time he investigated what a dirt bag Daniel Snyder - the only person that got punished was Jon Gruden (from another organization). Stay tuned? We have no choice.
All that is fine and dandy; but I saw this team win 11 games and rathouse Pittsburgh 48-37 in the playoffs to see what is possible. That already separates him from Andy Dalton. One of our losses was a 47-42 loss on Thursday Night Football only because Baltimore got the ball last. Anyone call out the defense that night while the offense put 6 TDs (no FGs) on the board? One of the best games of that year according to the announcers of it. Anyone show film of Baker that night? Of course not. Whether you want to admit this or not, in the KC playoff game (at KC) - Baker hit Higgins with a pass that should have been the GW score late in the 4th qtr. Guess who fumbled 3 inches in front of the goal line for a touchback? Higgins. We can pretend that never happened but a more talented WR secures that football or gets to the goal line quicker. That TD would have put the Browns in the AFC Championship with the QB I keep reading just can't win. You've seen him do it.
Shifting gears to now. I was thinking that giving Baker his final year of the contract, keeping our next 3 1st round picks and having an opportunity to draft one of these QBs (Pickett, Corral, Strong, Willis) at #13 overall wouldn't have us worrying about the length of a suspension. Roger won't be afraid to make an example of Watson; because it sure looks like he's excited about doing his own investigation. The last time he investigated what a dirt bag Daniel Snyder - the only person that got punished was Jon Gruden (from another organization). Stay tuned? We have no choice.
Tom, You just LOVE too bring up the HIGH HIGHS of Baker's career, and want to totally ignore the LOW LOWS. The talking heads have him pegged as wildly inconsistent. I happen to agree. If I wanted to waste more time than I'm willing to commit to this discussion, I'm sure I could easily drag up some totally suckful performances by Mayfield that cost the Browns games.
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All that is fine and dandy; but I saw this team win 11 games and rathouse Pittsburgh 48-37 in the playoffs to see what is possible. That already separates him from Andy Dalton. One of our losses was a 47-42 loss on Thursday Night Football only because Baltimore got the ball last. Anyone call out the defense that night while the offense put 6 TDs (no FGs) on the board? One of the best games of that year according to the announcers of it. Anyone show film of Baker that night? Of course not. Whether you want to admit this or not, in the KC playoff game (at KC) - Baker hit Higgins with a pass that should have been the GW score late in the 4th qtr. Guess who fumbled 3 inches in front of the goal line for a touchback? Higgins. We can pretend that never happened but a more talented WR secures that football or gets to the goal line quicker. That TD would have put the Browns in the AFC Championship with the QB I keep reading just can't win. You've seen him do it.
Shifting gears to now. I was thinking that giving Baker his final year of the contract, keeping our next 3 1st round picks and having an opportunity to draft one of these QBs (Pickett, Corral, Strong, Willis) at #13 overall wouldn't have us worrying about the length of a suspension. Roger won't be afraid to make an example of Watson; because it sure looks like he's excited about doing his own investigation. The last time he investigated what a dirt bag Daniel Snyder - the only person that got punished was Jon Gruden (from another organization). Stay tuned? We have no choice.
Tom, You just LOVE too bring up the HIGH HIGHS of Baker's career, and want to totally ignore the LOW LOWS. The talking heads have him pegged as wildly inconsistent. I happen to agree. If I wanted to waste more time than I'm willing to commit to this discussion, I'm sure I could easily drag up some totally suckful performances by Mayfield that cost the Browns games.
Tom, You just LOVE too bring up the HIGH HIGHS of Baker's career, and want to totally ignore the LOW LOWS. The talking heads have him pegged as wildly inconsistent. I happen to agree. If I wanted to waste more time than I'm willing to commit to this discussion, I'm sure I could easily drag up some totally suckful performances by Mayfield that cost the Browns games.
I mean….. are we arguing whether or not Baker was a good QB? Or that he was one of the best and most liked BROWNS QB since the return? The latter definitely does not mean he’s a great QB. Terrible passer rating. Terrible TD to INT ratio. Lost us way more games than he won. We were moving on from him if we could.
It seems no one wants him. If you are a top half QB in this league, you’ll find a spot in less than 24 hours.
Baker wasn’t a great QB. Deshaun is. Stay tuned
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Maybe it's just me but surely we could have found an untainted QB with those 3 1st rounders in trade value. It's called move up for the best QB. Maybe not this year for I just don't see one that is a sure fire SB level QB. But surely within the next couple of years while we stack the rest of the chips onto the team to give him the best chance to succeed.
Too much baggage added to that makes it untenable. Throw in a key injury to said Mr. Watson and the Browns are once again head clowns of the donkey league.
Maybe it's just me but surely we could have found an untainted QB with those 3 1st rounders in trade value. It's called move up for the best QB. Maybe not this year for I just don't see one that is a sure fire SB level QB. But surely within the next couple of years while we stack the rest of the chips onto the team to give him the best chance to succeed.
Too much baggage added to that makes it untenable. Throw in a key injury to said Mr. Watson and the Browns are once again head clowns of the donkey league.
1) surely? No. Way less than 50/50
2)we have the pieces for a QB to succeed. Had them with Mayfield.
3) don’t you put that on us Ricky Bobby! -
Tom, You just LOVE too bring up the HIGH HIGHS of Baker's career, and want to totally ignore the LOW LOWS. The talking heads have him pegged as wildly inconsistent. I happen to agree. If I wanted to waste more time than I'm willing to commit to this discussion, I'm sure I could easily drag up some totally suckful performances by Mayfield that cost the Browns games.
I mean….. are we arguing whether or not Baker was a good QB? Or that he was one of the best and most liked BROWNS QB since the return? The latter definitely does not mean he’s a great QB. Terrible passer rating. Terrible TD to INT ratio. Lost us way more games than he won. We were moving on from him if we could.
It seems no one wants him. If you are a top half QB in this league, you’ll find a spot in less than 24 hours.
Baker wasn’t a great QB. Deshaun is. Stay tuned
I mean….. are we arguing whether or not Baker was a good QB? Or that he was one of the best and most liked BROWNS QB since the return? The latter definitely does not mean he’s a great QB. Terrible passer rating. Terrible TD to INT ratio. Lost us way more games than he won. We were moving on from him if we could.
It seems no one wants him. If you are a top half QB in this league, you’ll find a spot in less than 24 hours.
Baker wasn’t a great QB. Deshaun is. Stay tunedI'll sort of leave Mr. Watson out of the conversation. BUT... Hey there Mr. Flugels... Baker's AMAZING career performances to date are overall SO spectacular that the Colts opted for Matt Ryan and a third round pick instead. And gosh darn, the Saints would rather have Famous Jamis. And when Ryan shipped up North to Indy, the Falcons opted for MAR-E-OTTA Instead. Notice a trend there?
Too bad, so sad. Beating the Steelers in a playoff game where Ben & company were (pun intended) Baking up turnovers at a prodigious rate, doesn't mean Jack shit to the rest of the NFL. We may have to go the Osweiler route, and give up the 7th round pick we got for Keenum just to have another team take Baker and his $18 million salary off our hands.
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You could be right. It is a lot of cash and could become crushing. However, we are basing that on cap dollars as we know. Next year TV dollars will increase as the new contracts will kick in to place. Gambling money is going to start heading in to the NFL treasure chest. There are still "maybe's" and "if's" attached to all of this, but it is a pretty good bet the cap is going to go up in a big way over the next season or two, so what seems like crazy today may not be so crazy in a year or two. It is a good bet the Browns are just a year ahead of the curve.
But...as I said, maybe not
As I posted elsewhere 'Peen- it was 2018 when the Vikings gave Cousins (at the time) what sounded like an insane contract with $80 million guaranteed. BTW 38 year old Aaron Rodgers is getting $150 million guaranteed over three years to keep him happy in Green Bay, so on an annual basis, that's a tad more than what we're giving Watson.
Guess that means the going rate for a top 10 NFL QB is now in the $40 million a year range. Also means it's the reason why my 2022 Season Tickets are averaging $165 bucks each per game....
As I posted elsewhere 'Peen- it was 2018 when the Vikings gave Cousins (at the time) what sounded like an insane contract with $80 million guaranteed. BTW 38 year old Aaron Rodgers is getting $150 million guaranteed over three years to keep him happy in Green Bay, so on an annual basis, that's a tad more than what we're giving Watson.
Guess that means the going rate for a top 10 NFL QB is now in the $40 million a year range. Also means it's the reason why my 2022 Season Tickets are averaging $165 bucks each per game....
Yep...mine average, counting the pre season run $215 per seat, but I chose to sit in club seats, so that is my choice. It is getting close to my limit, so I may end up seeking a seat location even if I have to downgrade my PSL level, if I can even make that downgrade.
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First, I've never disrespected your opinions in here good or bad. I already said to D Bone just a few posts up - I used bad judgment calling him Deshlong. EDIT: I've loved the Browns all my life; but at 58 years of age - there's not as many next years left if this goes bad.
Second, could it be some teams are so desperate for a starting QB that 1 team is now willing to give up multiple draft picks (inclusive of 3 1st round picks) and a guaranteed salary of 230 million $ for a guy that could have a lengthy suspension? QB is an important enough position to make teams overpay and/or overcommit trade exchange for every year. Anyway, the year before Baker was injured, he threw 26 TD passes to just 8 INTs in helping the Browns go 11-5 plus beating Pittsburgh 48-37 in the 1st round of the playoffs. Some teams don't just research the worst season a guy has had and make it the rule. They're more thorough than that.
No drugs required - Indy gave up a 1st round pick for Wentz last year. Washington just gave up 2 second round picks for the same guy this year. Why can't we get something like that for Baker? Baker is not that different except Baker WON a playoff game he started in right?
If you don't think a lot of people that have had a family member or close friend sexually assaulted (seeing Watson getting rewarded with a guaranteed 230 million $ contract) aren't going to be contacting the NFL Commish's Office - what kind of drugs are you taking? Have you thought about how this team can compete in a division with that kind of guaranteed cap hit without 1st round picks in a division that sent 3 teams to the playoffs in 2020 and 2 teams in 2021 if the God complex of Roger suspends him for a long time?
I sorta allways get a little pissed about board members calling are players disparaging names One that pissed me off was gerbal peppers I have always backed are players (ya even johnny stupid face even tho i knew i was just bullshitting myself) and for baker there is seattle and carolina seem to be in the market for a starting qb so maybe a 6th or 7th round pick or just a flat out release (which would suck cause we would still be on the hook for some monnies )
I sorta allways get a little pissed about board members calling are players disparaging names One that pissed me off was gerbal peppers I have always backed are players (ya even johnny stupid face even tho i knew i was just bullshitting myself) and for baker there is seattle and carolina seem to be in the market for a starting qb so maybe a 6th or 7th round pick or just a flat out release (which would suck cause we would still be on the hook for some monnies )
I hear ya! Thanks for explaining where you were coming from. The ill-advised name I used was my reaction to an owner that sentenced us to 1-31 football and watching how willing he was to throw 2 guys (that we're instrumental to giving this fanbase and football team a pulse again) in the trash. He thought nothing of getting rid of Landry and Baker (regardless of how bad Baker played in 2021). All of a sudden he pulls this "I think Deshaun Watson is the answer to all of our prayers - make it happen at all costs FO!" Here's a guy that hasn't been able to play football for legal issues that the NFL Commissioner needs to investigate further for a suspension. Public perception beyond the Browns' fans that just want to freakin win - is this looks really bad. The Commish will be reminded of this before he decides on his length of suspension. Then what? Jacoby Brissett? Keep in mind, the FO gave up 3 1st round picks and guaranteed that salary.
If this all goes wrong like it can - it ain't gonna be Baker Mayfield that's the horrible guy so many want him to be. It's the same guy that got in trouble as an owner of a business before he came to Cleveland.
The 2020 season brought back a lot of fond memories of QBs I enjoyed in the 80s (Sipe and Kosar) that consistently overcame imperfections to deliver us some exciting football. Baker in 2020 reminded me of them somewhat (in only his 3rd year as a starter before many here proclaimed his 2021 season the tell-all). I wanted to see the last year of the contract that our FO agreed upon with Baker while we held a 13th overall pick that positioned us to draft a promising young replacement if Baker failed. Today, it feels like we're awaiting how long Jacoby Brissett is our starting QB. Hard to get pumped up about it.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I mean….. are we arguing whether or not Baker was a good QB? Or that he was one of the best and most liked BROWNS QB since the return? The latter definitely does not mean he’s a great QB. Terrible passer rating. Terrible TD to INT ratio. Lost us way more games than he won. We were moving on from him if we could.
It seems no one wants him. If you are a top half QB in this league, you’ll find a spot in less than 24 hours.
Baker wasn’t a great QB. Deshaun is. Stay tunedI'll sort of leave Mr. Watson out of the conversation. BUT... Hey there Mr. Flugels... Baker's AMAZING career performances to date are overall SO spectacular that the Colts opted for Matt Ryan and a third round pick instead. And gosh darn, the Saints would rather have Famous Jamis. And when Ryan shipped up North to Indy, the Falcons opted for MAR-E-OTTA Instead. Notice a trend there?
Too bad, so sad. Beating the Steelers in a playoff game where Ben & company were (pun intended) Baking up turnovers at a prodigious rate, doesn't mean Jack shit to the rest of the NFL. We may have to go the Osweiler route, and give up the 7th round pick we got for Keenum just to have another team take Baker and his $18 million salary off our hands.
I'll sort of leave Mr. Watson out of the conversation. BUT... Hey there Mr. Flugels... Baker's AMAZING career performances to date are overall SO spectacular that the Colts opted for Matt Ryan and a third round pick instead. And gosh darn, the Saints would rather have Famous Jamis. And when Ryan shipped up North to Indy, the Falcons opted for MAR-E-OTTA Instead. Notice a trend there?
Too bad, so sad. Beating the Steelers in a playoff game where Ben & company were (pun intended) Baking up turnovers at a prodigious rate, doesn't mean Jack shit to the rest of the NFL. We may have to go the Osweiler route, and give up the 7th round pick we got for Keenum just to have another team take Baker and his $18 million salary off our hands.
Wonderful! Welcome to Jacoby Brissett as your new starting QB with Brock Osweiler as an alternative. I'm not nearly as excited as you are about that. And now you're complaining to me about the Browns beating Pittsburgh 48-37 AT Pittsburgh in the playoffs after an 11-5 season just 3 years after 0-16 football (and 1-15 the year before that)? Don't you have to understand where we were at to understand that was fun for us as fans again?
After seeing Indy's last choice of QB (Wentz) - I'd refrain from making them your role model for picking QB solutions today. We're beyond the point of arguing who and who doesn't want Baker. It's over. There was a better way to do this. Already explained it a few times in this thread..
EDIT: Just heard a replay of Adam Shefter's report saying teams aren't refraining from Baker for a perceived lack of talent - it's the 18 million $ salary the Browns guaranteed him in his contract for this year. The ESPN show hosts agreed that as soon as the Browns eat that guaranteed salary and cut him - teams like Seattle and/or Carolina probably won't hesitate to bring him in.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
It is amazing how such a large portion of the Browns fanbase waxes poetic about QBs who, in the grand scheme of the NFL and its history, are fairly pedestrian players.
It's going to be 2050 and I'll still be reading:
I'll never forget the night that Baker came off the bench in his first NFL game and unlocked the Bud Light Refrigerator by beating a franchise as historically shitty as the Browns have been since they came back in the league! -
It is amazing how such a large portion of the Browns fanbase waxes poetic about QBs who, in the grand scheme of the NFL and its history, are fairly pedestrian players.
It's going to be 2050 and I'll still be reading:
I'll never forget the night that Baker came off the bench in his first NFL game and unlocked the Bud Light Refrigerator by beating a franchise as historically shitty as the Browns have been since they came back in the league!It is amazing how such a large portion of the Browns fanbase waxes poetic about QBs who, in the grand scheme of the NFL and its history, are fairly pedestrian players.
It's going to be 2050 and I'll still be reading:
I'll never forget the night that Baker came off the bench in his first NFL game and unlocked the Bud Light Refrigerator by beating a franchise as historically shitty as the Browns have been since they came back in the league!Good point!
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