Your Opinion On Student Loan Forgiveness
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My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.
I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.
Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.
And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.
WSS
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My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.
I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.
Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.
And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.
WSS
My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.
I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.
Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.
And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.
WSS
- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses.
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
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My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.
I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.
Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.
And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.
WSS
- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses.
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
eh...you are kidding here, right? for the first time? Can you explain?
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My thoughts on the entire student loan debacle are thatthere should be grown-ups in the room when kids are signing up for truly ridiculous College curriculums. If your a girl is going to get a doctorate in PT which I am assuming is physical therapy that's going to be a pretty highly paid career. Sounds like a great investment to me. I do know a lot of people in the medical field and one of the reasons the bar is so high for PT is just that. Unlike anesthesiology in which a good number of patients die on the table physical therapy is a relatively low-risk High profit field. For that reason they don't want every Tom Dick and Harry getting that degree and watering down the field.
I'll post a couple more thoughts later but back to the grown-up in the room. Somebody should do a little research into the student and decide whether or not that person will ever be able to make a living with their chosen field of study. 3 people off the top of my head that I know well who have defaulted on student loans, I could have told you at the outset that these people were never going to work in the field.
Good job on your part paying off the loan she should easily be able to pay you back at a zero interest. I could live with the government cutting the interest rate but not letting people completely off the hook.
And I get it college-aged people have a lot of fun at school and it gives them the opportunity to feel Superior because they are students. But at the end of the day if that investment was never meant to pay off, it's a waste of their money and a waste of the government's money.
WSS
- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses.
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses.
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.
As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.
Instead of teaching kids CRT, gender studies, gay pride, boys can be girls and girls can be boys etc...they should be learning math and accounting, money management, calculating loans and interest,economics, responsibilities etc...
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If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.
Instead of teaching kids CRT, gender studies, gay pride, boys can be girls and girls can be boys etc...they should be learning math and accounting, money management, calculating loans and interest,economics, responsibilities etc...
If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.
well, if the loan is from a bank, they should repossess your house eventually. Or, the gov could draft you into service as a janitor in some government building til it's paid off.....
Back in the day, it was $224 bucks for a semester. Then they went to quarters. After the service ('77) it was a lot higher, but I had the GI bill.
Now, it's so freaking expensive, doesn't have to be. Cyber security would be great. Spanish flamenco dancing degree, not so much.
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If the student doesn't pay their student loan the government should take it from their Social Security payments the student is due later.
well, if the loan is from a bank, they should repossess your house eventually. Or, the gov could draft you into service as a janitor in some government building til it's paid off.....
Back in the day, it was $224 bucks for a semester. Then they went to quarters. After the service ('77) it was a lot higher, but I had the GI bill.
Now, it's so freaking expensive, doesn't have to be. Cyber security would be great. Spanish flamenco dancing degree, not so much.
well, if the loan is from a bank, they should repossess your house eventually. Or, the gov could draft you into service as a janitor in some government building til it's paid off.....
Back in the day, it was $224 bucks for a semester. Then they went to quarters. After the service ('77) it was a lot higher, but I had the GI bill.
Now, it's so freaking expensive, doesn't have to be. Cyber security would be great. Spanish flamenco dancing degree, not so much.
They could always take the military route get the college bonuses and save money for school.
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- fyi, I know people that got degrees in engineering, cuter science, etc they are still paying student loans off as they approach / hit 30. This isn't an issue exclusive to "fake" degrees. They've all been steadily employed too. The student loan debt is just another anchor they need to deal with as they try to take other steps in their life, or one that amplifies the impact of other unforseen expenses.
- I don't understand your "superior" comment at the end. Can you explain?
Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.
As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.
WSS
Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.
As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.
WSS
No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright.
Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees.
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Oh please, you most certainly understand. By the way that's a general statement not even particularly aimed at you.
As far as the first point yes, life is tough. Not everything works out the way you want it to. But more often when you make a foolish decision in the first place.
WSS
No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright.
Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees.
No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright.
Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees.
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Reduce the APR. Don't alter principle owed.
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
I agree. Reduce the Apr but make them pay back the entire loan.
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Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.
1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit.
2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful.
3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!
She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.
4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem.
5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023.
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No, I honestly don't. Not in the context for which you used it. You're saying just the act of being a college student makes someone feel superior, and I disagree. But alright.
Ok, yeah, things happen. But you're painting this issue as only being detrimental to those that made "bad" decisions with their degrees. You do that because then it is easier for you to internally justify your position (just like all of the "free shit" stuff, etc). But I'm telling you that isn't true, and it is a disingenuous way to frame this issue. It is affecting a lot of younger people, both with "fake" and "real" degrees.
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
Ja.brill Peppers - Cleveland Brown OldBrownsFan, on 02 Jun 2017 - 5:09PM said: "No you are not the work of the devil but you are deceived by the devil." Who's got it better than us? Nooooobody! -
Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.
1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit.
2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful.
3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!
She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.
4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem.
5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023.
Thanks for the replies everyone. I can definitely see both sides, but if I were to have to choose one side only it would be to make higher education more affordable.
1) I don't want to see a flat number forgiven off of a student's debt as that would not be fair. Say they forgive 30K from all student's debt, that would mean much different things to someone with 33K of debt vs someone with 173K.... simply not fair. A percentage is the only way everyone gets the same benefit.
2) I keep getting back to the outrageous interest rate (for my daughter at least) and we as a nation can and should do far better for our people. 1%-2% sounds reasonable for the government to still make money, and then of course, spend it on something useful.
3) My daughter dreamed of UCLA but that was never even a glimmer of hope for her and she knew that from a young age. Tuition for UCLA/USC was right at 50K per year.... just fucking tuition!
She had her choice of any Cal State school and she chose Sonoma State University, and we got her BS degree for 68K all in. She got it in 4 years, had a few grants and worked as a mentor for 2 years and a food server for the other 2, and was able to save all of that to use for her 1st year of PT school room and board in Australia. Her mom and I paid the other 2 years... Man it's nice to finally have her off the payroll.
4) These universities that charge unbelievable amounts need to be held accountable as well, but so do the kids, and moreover their parents for encouraging/allowing them to go when there are other far more affordable options available. Again, if you are old enough to go to university then you are old enough to read the loan papers you are signing... if not, then you are doomed from day 1 and that is not the governments problem.
5) Every time they extend the freeze it helps my wife and I as it gives my daughter more time to save money to immediately send us reducing the amount we have to pay. So selfishly I hope they extend the damn thing through 2023.
I think you're right in that the main issue is the skyrocketing cost of college tuition
1) why should a student get more forgiveness just because they chose to go to a more expensive school? Why should a student get more forgiveness because they chose to pursue graduate level degrees? It would seen that doing it on a % basis would make it so that each student DOESN'T get the same benefit.
2) couldn't hurt
4) Not sure about the "old enough" statement. We're saying that people at that age aren't even old enough to drink beer, but they're old enough to independently sign up for life crippling student loan debt? Some students aren't even 18 by the time they start college.
And to the other point, if I wasn't getting a practical degree worth the cost for the school I chose my parents wouldn't have helped contribute as much at they did. The investment would need to pay off.
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Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm retired you stupid cockaholic.
What I alluded to was how much in taxes I would, and have paid this yr.
You pay taxes when you sell businesses and properties you moron. You pay taxes on your current properties dumbass. You pay tangible taxes on items and inventory within your businesses. You pay sales tax on goods that are sold that leave your business' property. You pay taxes for being self employed. etc etc. I paid a LOT of taxes. That's not "bragging" you fuckin imbecile! That's complaining! Get your facts straight before my name comes out of your mouth.
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
I think the whole process has to be reevaluated and reformed frankly. Some of these things that people are paying far out the ass to go to college for shouldn't even be offered. Theres like four to five professions that college is truly necessary to perform. Medical, engineering, law, finance, research science... I'm sure there's maybe a couple others. Any and all of the rest could be covered by apprenticeship and maybe workshops here and there.
Rooking kids into years and years of debt to give them a worthless degree in art or marketing or music or, you know. Whatever you name it is a pure scheme and I would bust that shit up in a hurry. Kick it down to trade schools or even lower.
I spent seven years in com-nav in the air force and simultaneously got a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and while I didn't pay full price for college on account of the gi bill it still wasnt cheap, and the truth is I ended up learning far more in the field from the guys who came before me and the reason for that is because i was considerably more serious at that time. More ready to learn and achieve. And now at 42 I'm the guy who's doing the ojt and teaching the younger guys how to do the job. I believe in that model. It worked for human beings as long as jobs/skills/trades have been a thing. The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
I think kids out of high school should do a rumspringa like the Amish do. Alright kid, go out there and live it up. Sow your wild oats. Come back and see me when you get serious.
Don't get straight into hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get a degree in identity studies...there's not enough of a market for something like that. Not a degree in art or marketing. You either have the talent or you don't. Anyone can pass the class the question is do you have the talent?
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I think the whole process has to be reevaluated and reformed frankly. Some of these things that people are paying far out the ass to go to college for shouldn't even be offered. Theres like four to five professions that college is truly necessary to perform. Medical, engineering, law, finance, research science... I'm sure there's maybe a couple others. Any and all of the rest could be covered by apprenticeship and maybe workshops here and there.
Rooking kids into years and years of debt to give them a worthless degree in art or marketing or music or, you know. Whatever you name it is a pure scheme and I would bust that shit up in a hurry. Kick it down to trade schools or even lower.
I spent seven years in com-nav in the air force and simultaneously got a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering and while I didn't pay full price for college on account of the gi bill it still wasnt cheap, and the truth is I ended up learning far more in the field from the guys who came before me and the reason for that is because i was considerably more serious at that time. More ready to learn and achieve. And now at 42 I'm the guy who's doing the ojt and teaching the younger guys how to do the job. I believe in that model. It worked for human beings as long as jobs/skills/trades have been a thing. The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
The classroom is for theory and applied theory and thats what belongs there. You dont learn how to solve real world problems in a classroom.
This ^
Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/ -
Okay we can pretend there's never been a conversation here about people with certain levels of formal education and how they vote or earn or brag about the reputation of the institution of learning they attend.
By the way as you absolutely know I never paint anything as only. So you're the guy being disingenuous here, again.
And the fact that things do happen underscores my point. Silly degrees are certainly a big part of it. Valid degrees for people who have absolutely no work ethic nor any aptitude to do that job even if they did finish the degree is another. Getting a degree in a field or too many people are going for that same degree, communications or marketing for example, is another. The kid that takes guitar lessons and still sucks for whatever reason doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and becomes really really good but can't get a gig doesn't get his money back. The kid who takes guitar lessons and plays pretty well then finds out that playing in a band isn't all that lucrative doesn't get his money back.
But as far as free shit, like with the commonplace high school diploma if k - 16 is run the same way, which I guarantee it will be, that associates degree won't be worth much anyway.
(Just and aside the three people I know of that defaulted went for law enforcement social work and fashion design)
By the way 24% of those who graduate from law schools aren't even practicing law.
WSS
The last guy on here, and maybe only, to brag about how much he makes was Axe
I'm commenting on how you phrased your first post. Being a college student just doesn't make people feel superior. The institution plays a role, for sure, and so does the individual. I also would confuse arrogance and pride. But again, this is you framing your argument in a certain way.
Even in your response above, you move to admitting people with "valid" degrees may get screwed by student loans too, but then immediately insinuate those individuals have no work ethic or aptitude. Once again, there are plenty of younger people that got "real" degrees, in fields of high demand, that are good at their jobs and still have to deal with the shackles of student loan debt. You can't just say this is only for lazy people, or people who picked bad degrees, or whatever... whatever you come up with to frame the argument in a way you can blame the student, absolving you from thinking there is a problem that even needs solved.
A college degree doesn't lose its value in the workforce just because students don't have to go into crippling debt to get it... the value is in the curriculum and the work that was put in to graduate (plus all of the other stuff, like alumni networks, career resources, school prestige, experiences, etc)
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon. Careers are fluid.
But I'm saying you do the same schtick with your "free shit" rants. The people voting for progressive policies are just lazy and want free stuff, blah blah blah. Doesn't work as well when someone like me votes for those policies, which provide me no direct benefit, and raise my taxes. But you're framing it a certain way on purpose.
As D Bone touched on in the post after yours, the issue is the rising costs of tuition. Far far far outpacing damn near anything else.
I graduated with an engineering degree and I won't be doing engineering soon.
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