Browns fans are a confusing bunch.
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It's a lazy verb.
The Browns overpaid for Watson. But if they didn't he would've signed elsewhere.
Baker of course, is a different story. Because there, right now, is no elsewhere for him. And frankly, when a spot finally opens up for his services, I bet Jimmy G gets the call first.
The debate around here is how much we overpaid for him. The deniers\hatahs don't want to believe the rumors\speculation that's out there- there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks.
We're sort of arguing in circles about the future value of money. Rodgers is already going to make more this year than Watson. and Mahomes is damn close. It's been pointed out with the cap certainly going up- way up- in the next couple of years $230 million guaranteed may look cheap down the road. It wasn't that long ago that Kirk Cousins' $72 million guaranteed was considered insane. Pay attention to what the Ravens are going to have to cough up shortly to keep Lamar Jackson happy. Then Herbert and Burrow when they come off their rookie deals.
The DW "would have signed elsewhere"? For sure, and the media backlash would have been every bit as condemning regardless of where he wound up. It's just that the Browns pulled the short end of the straw to get attacked by the morality police.
there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks
People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements. The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed. Furthermore, the actual value of all 4 teams' proposed contracts were roughly equal.. unless you want to quibble about 0.3M on any one year, the approximation is equality between all the offers.. the value and total cap hit over contract years is the same. The single item that set the Browns above the rest is the guarantee..
It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope. Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers. ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans had to be approved before Watson was allowed to get on a plane to even talk with a FO seeking to sign DW.
It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks.
We didn't overpay.. Sure, you may not agree with allocating that much of a resource to the QB position -- but a ProBowl QB in his prime had his contract set roughly at that level before Berry proposed it. Mahomes' cap is actually more per season than DW..
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there were other NFL teams who were willing and able to match the Browns in draft picks
People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements. The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed. Furthermore, the actual value of all 4 teams' proposed contracts were roughly equal.. unless you want to quibble about 0.3M on any one year, the approximation is equality between all the offers.. the value and total cap hit over contract years is the same. The single item that set the Browns above the rest is the guarantee..
It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope. Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers. ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans had to be approved before Watson was allowed to get on a plane to even talk with a FO seeking to sign DW.
It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks.
We didn't overpay.. Sure, you may not agree with allocating that much of a resource to the QB position -- but a ProBowl QB in his prime had his contract set roughly at that level before Berry proposed it. Mahomes' cap is actually more per season than DW..
People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements. The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed.
It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope. Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers. ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans were approved beforehand.
It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks.
You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table. I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.
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We may be somewhat vague in this thread on the difference between a guarantee vs non-guaranteed contract.. The guarantee means obviously he does get the money as stated. The non-guarantee means that the contract could be terminated after the guaranteed period for nearly any reason.
So even though it's theoretically possible the other teams' proposed contracts could end up with the same final value, reality is that the non-guaranteed status means he'd be pushing for a trade/extension in just 2,3 more seasons. It's not that the headline total value of the deal is "more" or "less" -- it's that the Browns said you have a 100% chance of making this amount and all the other teams were only willing to say you have a 50% chance of making the same amount.
And so Watson went with the certainty.
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People [intentionally?] forget that all of the teams that interviewed Watson agreed before the talks to Houston's draft pick compensation requirements. The draft picks were a given -- the only thing that was unique/different about the Browns offer is the amount guaranteed.
It's bizarro-land ahistorical revisionism to assert It Would Have Been Possible that draft picks weren't going to happen.. 110% nope. Watson is one of the few trades in recent NFL history where the player picked his destination from multiple equal offers. ALL of the draft pick compensation packages that would have been received by Texans were approved beforehand.
It was up to Watson to decide which team to join -- Texans were good with each of the four proposed trades, all of which included 3 first-round picks.
You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table. I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.
You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table. I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.
I bet it was exactly why Watson chose Cleveland.The Saints, NO, and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.$35 millionThe Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause. -
You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table. I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.
I bet it was exactly why Watson chose Cleveland.The Saints, NO, and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.$35 millionThe Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause.I bet it was exactly why Watson chose Cleveland.The Saints, NO, and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.$35 millionThe Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause.That and a guarantee and the extra year.
(btw "lose respect????)
WSS
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You have to wonder then, if just maybe the other (it was at least three teams) were willing to match, or come mighty close the the final $230 million he got from the Browns. The possibility sure could be Watson viewed the Browns as the most "playoff ready" ready team with offers on the table. I'd lose respect for him if the only reason he picked the Browns was grubbing over an extra $10 million or so.
I bet it was exactly why Watson chose Cleveland.The Saints, NO, and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.$35 millionThe Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause.The Saints and Atlanta all had serious cap space issues.$35 millionThe Saints are in a position to acquire Watson and absorb nearly his entire base salary of $35 million for 2022, per ESPN. The Saints met with Watson earlier in the week in hopes of convincing the three-time Pro-Bowler to waive his no-trade clause.I'm still in the belief that, if Sean Payton did not move to the tv booth this season.. Watson could have became a Saint.. The Saints roster might be just as equal to ours.. The Saints could have added voided years to a few more contracts to land Watson with S.Payton still working with their bargaining table ..
Watson ranks 3rd among QB's, with a 46M base salary..
proving that,
It's not that the headline total value of the deal is "more" or "less" -- it's that the Browns said you have a 100% chance of making this amount and all the other teams were only willing to say you have a 50% chance of making the same amount.
And so Watson went with the certainty.
the Watson claim of 'he did not know the guaranteed"... is complete BS ?
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A professional athlete took the highest contract offer?
This is news?
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A professional athlete took the highest contract offer?
This is news?
A professional athlete took the highest contract offer?
This is news?
Not at all. It happens all the time. I think that was just a response to somebody who speculated that he chose Cleveland because he thought it was the best place to be and not because Jimmy was the only guy that made an offer that high.
And who knows? He might reconsider the reasons he didn't want to come here in time.
But we've also seen what happens when Star players are stuck somewhere they don't want to be. Obj.
Hopefully this case will be different.
WSS
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A professional athlete took the highest contract offer?
This is news?
Not at all. It happens all the time. I think that was just a response to somebody who speculated that he chose Cleveland because he thought it was the best place to be and not because Jimmy was the only guy that made an offer that high.
And who knows? He might reconsider the reasons he didn't want to come here in time.
But we've also seen what happens when Star players are stuck somewhere they don't want to be. Obj.
Hopefully this case will be different.
WSS
Not at all. It happens all the time. I think that was just a response to somebody who speculated that he chose Cleveland because he thought it was the best place to be and not because Jimmy was the only guy that made an offer that high.
And who knows? He might reconsider the reasons he didn't want to come here in time.
But we've also seen what happens when Star players are stuck somewhere they don't want to be. Obj.
Hopefully this case will be different.
WSS
I absolutely think the reason he came here was because the Browns offered the best contract.
He's a kid from the South, who played college ball in the South.
In fact, and I've brought it up before, when he played here in 2020 the weather was pretty miserable (you know, typical NE Ohio November day) and he did not look comfortable playing in the elements at all.
How he does in the late season is something that I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for.
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Not at all. It happens all the time. I think that was just a response to somebody who speculated that he chose Cleveland because he thought it was the best place to be and not because Jimmy was the only guy that made an offer that high.
And who knows? He might reconsider the reasons he didn't want to come here in time.
But we've also seen what happens when Star players are stuck somewhere they don't want to be. Obj.
Hopefully this case will be different.
WSS
I absolutely think the reason he came here was because the Browns offered the best contract.
He's a kid from the South, who played college ball in the South.
In fact, and I've brought it up before, when he played here in 2020 the weather was pretty miserable (you know, typical NE Ohio November day) and he did not look comfortable playing in the elements at all.
How he does in the late season is something that I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for.
I absolutely think the reason he came here was because the Browns offered the best contract.
He's a kid from the South, who played college ball in the South.
In fact, and I've brought it up before, when he played here in 2020 the weather was pretty miserable (you know, typical NE Ohio November day) and he did not look comfortable playing in the elements at all.
How he does in the late season is something that I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for.
Lets hope he adapts like Aaron Rodgers. California guy (Chico), then U Cal Berkley to Green Bay. Personally, I wouldn't pick Green Bay for a vacation in December and January.
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I absolutely think the reason he came here was because the Browns offered the best contract.
He's a kid from the South, who played college ball in the South.
In fact, and I've brought it up before, when he played here in 2020 the weather was pretty miserable (you know, typical NE Ohio November day) and he did not look comfortable playing in the elements at all.
How he does in the late season is something that I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for.
Lets hope he adapts like Aaron Rodgers. California guy (Chico), then U Cal Berkley to Green Bay. Personally, I wouldn't pick Green Bay for a vacation in December and January.
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I absolutely think the reason he came here was because the Browns offered the best contract.
He's a kid from the South, who played college ball in the South.
In fact, and I've brought it up before, when he played here in 2020 the weather was pretty miserable (you know, typical NE Ohio November day) and he did not look comfortable playing in the elements at all.
How he does in the late season is something that I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for.
Lets hope he adapts like Aaron Rodgers. California guy (Chico), then U Cal Berkley to Green Bay. Personally, I wouldn't pick Green Bay for a vacation in December and January.
Lets hope he adapts like Aaron Rodgers. California guy (Chico), then U Cal Berkley to Green Bay. Personally, I wouldn't pick Green Bay for a vacation in December and January.
And Bart Starr went to the Ice Bowl of Green Bay from Alabama.
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