The Ballad of Nick Harris

[gumby73]

@nickers said:

Wouldn't mind getting Tretter back at the right price... But these other kids look interesting... May as well see what they got....

We see this the same way..

I thought D.Deaton would get reps after Pocic... I learned we had a dude named Brock Huffman from the VT Hokies on our roster..Brock Huffman got reps ahead of D. Deaton getting reps..

Well Excuse me Mr. Brock Huffman & his entire family.. ? This UDFA from Virginia Tech played well & shares the same grad school as Wyatt Teller.. stay tuned..  #trustCallahan 

[nickers]

@gumby73 said:

We see this the same way..

I thought D.Deaton would get reps after Pocic... I learned we had a dude named Brock Huffman from the VT Hokies on our roster..Brock Huffman got reps ahead of D. Deaton getting reps..

Well Excuse me Mr. Brock Huffman & his entire family.. ? This UDFA from Virginia Tech played well & shares the same grad school as Wyatt Teller.. stay tuned..  #trustCallahan 

Callahan is about the only coach I trust on this team next to prief...

[nickers]

@gumby73 said:

We see this the same way..

I thought D.Deaton would get reps after Pocic... I learned we had a dude named Brock Huffman from the VT Hokies on our roster..Brock Huffman got reps ahead of D. Deaton getting reps..

Well Excuse me Mr. Brock Huffman & his entire family.. ? This UDFA from Virginia Tech played well & shares the same grad school as Wyatt Teller.. stay tuned..  #trustCallahan 

Yeah the Deaton pick intrigued me the most... And me thinking at the time we took him.. Callahan is seeing something with this kid... I mean hell Drew Forbes was a Dorsey pick whose still hanging around...

[Unsympathetic]

Deaton shares a school with the Legend of Billy Joe Tolliver!  And just like that, Deaton tore an ACL also, IR for him.

[Dutch Oven]

Most of us were somewhat to very concerned about the DTackle position, and now with the center position being decimated, this team could be very weak up the middle on both sides of the trenches. 

Not a great thing for a team who plays outdoors in the North, running the ball and defending the run.

This offense without Watson is not going to run up pinball offensive numbers to make opposing offenses one dimensional, either. 

[Canton Dawg]

If I recall the game last year against the Patriots, Bill B exploited the soft interior of our D Line.

Unfortunately, we move ahead another year and we still have the same issue.

[Riffer X]

Just wonderful that I still have a gift for being optimistic about certain players and thus jinx them. I'm truly blessed in that regard. 

I was at the Jags game for this, sitting in row D right behind the Browns bench. Paid big cake and then witnessed what was probably the worst start to a football game that I have ever seen by any football team. I knew the second I saw that Harris was down and writhing in pain that he was done for the year -- it's the Browns way. 

But hey, at least we lost Deaton this week as well....yee haw baby!!!

I highly doubt Brock Hoffman is any more than PS fodder, but word is they have started working Dunn more at center the past few days. I've always liked him since he dominated Ironhead's kid in the playoffs. 

Pocic is capable but imo more as a spot starter. He was a nice interior depth signing but not sure about him going the distance. He has had injury issues and his career to this point doesn't jump out via PFF, although he did show nice improvement last season. He is pretty tall for a center at 6'6 (Deaton was 6'5 and Tretter was considered a tall center at 6'4) which is quite a change from the shorter Harris. Bitonio even mentioned it matters in their splits etc.

@unsympathetic below is a snapshot of Pocic's career PFF, along with scouting profiles of him and Hoffman. I think we're going to be very aggressive in camp cuts or even deals involving IDL, C and WR. Word is still out that Hunt or DJ may be moved, Hunt moreso for cap rollover purposes (I'm not a fan of moving either). 

Brothers Ethan and Graham Pocic (pronounced po-sick) had great success as college football centers. Graham was a two-time honorable mention Big Ten honoree with their home-state college, Illinois, and now Ethan is having his day as an All-SEC center with an NFL future. The Parade High School All-American enrolled at LSU a semester early, and it paid off when he played in six games the following fall, starting once. He got the full-time gig in 2014, lining up nine games at right guard and three more in the pivot. Pocic received second-team all-conference recognition as a junior, leading the Tigers in knockdowns with 132.5 in just 12 games. He finished off his career with a first-team All-SEC nod in 2016, as well as multiple second and third-team All-American honors.

Overview

Flexible, natural athlete with starting experience all along the LSU offensive line. Scouts say Pocic has the intelligence teams look for from a center and is highly regarded by LSU coaches and teammates in the locker room. Pocic is an excellent "work-up" blocker with the ability to thrive in a running game that operates in space, but his lack of power will produce some extremely challenging matchups for him at times.

Strengths

• Five-for-one lineman offering roster flexibility; has played tackle, guard and center
• Determined player
• Shoots hands inside defenders frame and keeps them there
• Shows the hand strength and body control to "ride the bull" against stronger players while remaining engaged
• Rapid lateral movement allows him to slide along his gap to pick up blitzers
• Pass sets feature adequate base width and solid hand quickness
• Fluid combo-blocker who glides easily to his second-level targets with good angles
• Patient blocker on second level
• Able to wait as long as possible for committing to his block in space
• Features good body control and high connection rate on blocks in space
• Athletic on pull blocks and screens and able to make blocks well down the field
• Smart and makes the offensive calls

Weaknesses

• Tall for a center, losing some leverage battles because of it
• Athletic ability offset by below-average core strength
• Doesn't play with the pad level or leg drive to uproot defenders without help
• Gets jarred by power across from him
• Upper body strength needs work
• Anchor will always be an issue against zero-technique nose guards
• Gives into pocket pushers, creating traffic in the backfield
• Defenders able to drive through his edge and redirect attempts
• Can be quicker into proper positioning for reach blocks
• Has difficulty securing zone blocks at times

Strengths

• Anchors well and plays with the low center of gravity and natural bend to seal the inside lanes. Has violent hands with hustle to close off bubble screens and lead to flatten linebackers. Nasty demeanor and highly coachable.
• Awareness is above-average for his limited experience. Sells trap block and can turn to seal. Fluid getting to and adjust at the second level.
• Has average height with a narrow base out of his stance. Needs to get stronger in his lower half to anchor at the point of attack.
• Solid positional run blocker who flashes the nasty demeanor and killer instinct scouts covet.
• Lone concern is handling the superquick NFL edge rusher. Foot speed and quickness are very good, but not elite.

Weaknesses

• A short-area blocker with limited range and doesn't consistently get to the second level. Will play undisciplined at times, especially in space. Lacks a finishing attitude.
• Attacks when necessary, though he won't consistently dominate and can lose balance overextending.
• Needs to prove his worth in a straight-ahead running game.
• Flashes the ability to move his man with his hands, but is not yet consistent in this area.
• Not physically imposing and has average overall strength. Upper body gets over his feet too often and he easily loses his balance.

[jrb12711]

@jcam222 said:

If the Browns are smart they are burning Tretters line up right now before TB snaps him up. Having the NFLPA prez was a burden at one time, could be a useful side effect now too. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/14/joel-bitonio-wonders-whether-jc-tretter-is-being-blackballed-for-his-stance-on-player-safety/

There's a lot of reasons I can easily understand why Tretter wouldn't re-join the Browns. I doubt he feels we burned a bridge based on being cut, but this organization is turning into a clown car in some respects and it's matter of fact wonky he'd be on the roster with the Watson news looming. Not saying he couldn't join, but there's variables where I understand why he (or the Browns) may not be interested in a reunion.

That being said, I figured TB would be a lock when Jensen went down. Who knows, maybe they are super high on their backup and I have no clue. But there very well be some truth to this article too.

[Riffer X]

@jrb12711 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/08/14/joel-bitonio-wonders-whether-jc-tretter-is-being-blackballed-for-his-stance-on-player-safety/

There's a lot of reasons I can easily understand why Tretter wouldn't re-join the Browns. I doubt he feels we burned a bridge based on being cut, but this organization is turning into a clown car in some respects and it's matter of fact wonky he'd be on the roster with the Watson news looming. Not saying he couldn't join, but there's variables where I understand why he (or the Browns) may not be interested in a reunion.

That being said, I figured TB would be a lock when Jensen went down. Who knows, maybe they are super high on their backup and I have no clue. But there very well be some truth to this article too.

A couple of things: I brought up in the past how Tretter was not enamored by the Browns org in general and by some of the players. Having a union head on your team isn't really in the best interest of the team and the Browns aren't the only team to understand this. Tretter was also due a $9.86 million salary cap hit, however, only $1.625 million counted toward dead cap if he was cut, so the Browns save around $8.2 million. Harris and Pocic only cost around $1 million apiece this year, so they save a ton of money that could be used in cap rollover or helping sign a Clowney depending how you look at it. 

It is rare that players resign with teams that just cut them in the same year (see Sheldon Richardson). Tretter is also 31 years old and has barely practiced the last few years, he does the Bavaro regimen. There is no guarantee he is looking to continue playing, especially for bargain basement prices. He may also be waiting until teams get more desperate and I can guarantee he probably wants no part of being in a camp if he doesn't have to be. 

I definitely think the Tretter ship has sailed. He is a top 5ish center and even though he never practices, he almost always plays and doesn't miss games. Last year he was 6th in PFF among centers, so there are reasons he is not with a team that go above and beyond his ability to play. 

I think the Browns will monitor the cuts and maybe look at some low-level trades with teams that may be loaded on the interior (think Pain and Teller when Buffalo was juiced). If they see an immediate upgrade over Pocic, they will probably bring someone in. They also lost depth, so unless Hoffman or Dunn (for now) show anything, they may need to address more depth in general. Also, Hance or Forbes may get a look and Hubbard played there before in a pinch, so Callahan has some backup plans to be sure. 

[Unsympathetic]

Even FactoryofSadness doesn't think Pocic is long for this team, and that takes some doing.  Here's hoping a trade or two is being put together behind the scenes.. Injuries affect teams fairly equally over the years, some more equally than others.

This guy is still an unrestricted FA.  Last yr with NYG was his highest-ranked season.. he was just a touch below average [21st], which is more than we can say about Pocic and unless Tretter comes back basically as good as we'll be able to get.

[TexasAg1969]

@unsympathetic said:

Even FactoryofSadness doesn't think Pocic is long for this team, and that takes some doing.  Here's hoping a trade or two is being put together behind the scenes.. Injuries affect teams fairly equally over the years, some more equally than others.

This guy is still an unrestricted FA.  Last yr with NYG was his highest-ranked season.. he was just a touch below average [21st], which is more than we can say about Pocic and unless Tretter comes back basically as good as we'll be able to get.

Too bad my next Aggie recommendation is only a soph starting center. We have to wait until the 2024 draft for him. Bryce Foster 6'-5" 325 High School state 6A champ in Shot Put, 3rd in Discus. 

Football accomplishments as a freshman starter at center from day one.

2021 SEC All-Freshman Team
2021 FWAA Freshman All-America Team
2021 The Athletic Freshman All-America First Team

[Flugel]

@unsympathetic said:

Even FactoryofSadness doesn't think Pocic is long for this team, and that takes some doing.  Here's hoping a trade or two is being put together behind the scenes.. Injuries affect teams fairly equally over the years, some more equally than others.

This guy is still an unrestricted FA.  Last yr with NYG was his highest-ranked season.. he was just a touch below average [21st], which is more than we can say about Pocic and unless Tretter comes back basically as good as we'll be able to get.

Considering our situation, I really like this Billy Price idea.  I know he got injured when he played for the Kittens but I've completely lost track of him since.  If he could ever get back to being anything like the guy we saw at Ohio State - he'd be an awesome fit between the Pro Bowl Guards.

I remember the year we lost LeCharles Bentley on the very first day of training camp in a non-contact practice.  Most of us were thinking there was no way to replace this guy.  The desperation of it all, left us trading for a guy (Hank Fraley) that Philly had already replaced in their starting lineup the year before. When he got to Cleveland in early September of 2006, his experience enabled him to start and make all the calls at the line of scrimmage immediately.  What people didn't know was this guy could still pull around end and beat opponents off the ball with better quickness, leverage and sound fundamentals.  By the time we hit 2007, this guy was a very solid part of our plan.  This was our line: Rookie LT Joe Thomas, LG Eric Steinbach, C Hank Fraley, RG Seth McKinney, RT Kevin Shaffer.  Suddenly all guys were in the right spots especially on the right said where Shaffer enjoyed his best season.  The year before that the poor guy played on the blind side, not that the right side wasn't also a blind side for Derek Anderson...  But he didn't have the dead legs of Joe Andruzzi next to him with the mobility of a pet rock.  Anyway, the Browns went 10-6 and Fraley was a big part of all that in 2007.

I sidetracked to all that because we're in the same situation we were when Bentley got parked. Price also looks like he's in a similar situation as Fraley was - looking for a fair opportunity.  The only thing I don't know here is how damaging the injuries were to Price or if he got hook on pain killers or something.  This disappearance from what he was and seemed to promise is a mystery to me.  

[Flugel]

@texasag1969 said:

Too bad my next Aggie recommendation is only a soph starting center. We have to wait until the 2024 draft for him. Bryce Foster 6'-5" 325 High School state 6A champ in Shot Put, 3rd in Discus. 

Football accomplishments as a freshman starter at center from day one.

2021 SEC All-Freshman Team
2021 FWAA Freshman All-America Team
2021 The Athletic Freshman All-America First Team

How much cake is he making right now?  I'd hate to see the poor kid take a pay cut when he gets drafted.  

[TexasAg1969]

@flugel said:

How much cake is he making right now?  I'd hate to see the poor kid take a pay cut when he gets drafted.  

I can't tell because the budgets for track which he does in the spring and football in the fall are hard to discern simultaneously. ?