Depodesta finally got his coach but results are the same
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I hate to say it, but I don't want Stefanski going anywhere until he gets a full year with Watson. That's only fair to me. We gave Stef a dramatic offseason full of absolute bullcrap and then expected him to win with a backup QB AND an abysmal defense. Why not just wait until after next year? We'll obviously have a new defensive coordinator and we'll have Watson to begin the year.
I just hope we have the patience to wait because I'm telling you guys, this season is about to get ugly. And when I say ugly, I mean we might be the worst team in the league next to Chicago and Carolina. We're probably going to lose horrifically next week and we need to be prepared for it. It's going to get really bad for us. We're losing to 3rd string qb's at HOME. What do you think is going to happen when we play LAMAR in Baltimore?
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I hate to say it, but I don't want Stefanski going anywhere until he gets a full year with Watson. That's only fair to me. We gave Stef a dramatic offseason full of absolute bullcrap and then expected him to win with a backup QB AND an abysmal defense. Why not just wait until after next year? We'll obviously have a new defensive coordinator and we'll have Watson to begin the year.
I just hope we have the patience to wait because I'm telling you guys, this season is about to get ugly. And when I say ugly, I mean we might be the worst team in the league next to Chicago and Carolina. We're probably going to lose horrifically next week and we need to be prepared for it. It's going to get really bad for us. We're losing to 3rd string qb's at HOME. What do you think is going to happen when we play LAMAR in Baltimore?
What do you think is going to happen when we play LAMAR in Baltimore?
I see this being brought up quite a bit. I actually think we matchup a fair bit better against Baltimore than we do New England.
Their secondary isn't as equipped to deal with Coop as the Pats were, our running game has been good at finding space to work against their 1 gap calls and our defense, while having it's issues, might find some success against their option game.
Lamar can throw a pretty and decently accurate pass when he has time to set his feet perfectly. When he doesn't? Then he's an average passer.
I could see our defensive mindset being the same next week as it was yesterday. A lot of man coverage and 5 man pressures sent at Lamar in order to force him to throw accurately without having perfect footwork timing and that wonky ass throwing motion of his.
We lack that interior push though, so asking the DBs to hold up on the backend is really a tall order.
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I split season tickets with my cousin, great view in the first row of the upper deck. If I had to make the decision today, I wouldn't renew for 2023. I'm actually more upset now than when they drafted Manziel, and didn't think that was possible.
I, like most of you here, am nearly broken as a fan.
I fear heads will roll. Like @Flugel wrote, you can't fire the owner. So Stefanski may be the scapegoat. New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.
Double edged sword.
Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise. Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.
Steelers are a prime example. Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs. And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough.
Wisconsin firing Chyrst. - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad. Regressing back to the median.
Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin. Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play. Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth.
Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run. He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system". Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though. Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is.
You are what you are in the NFL. And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy. I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time.
The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense. That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button.
Carolina didn't.
The Jets sort of could but didn't.
The Steelers could be didn't.
Atlanta finally did.
End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell. Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design. At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years.
The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep.
The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season. It's not their fault, they don't know any better. But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing.
The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different. The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position. Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games. I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault. I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead. I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.
Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season. I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue. Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways. Horse, meet water, won't drink. Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment.
But you can't tell fans that. You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it. You really can't do that with anything. I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment. The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.
Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics.
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread. I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.
I appreciate the constructive talk.
Double edged sword.
Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise. Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.
Steelers are a prime example. Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs. And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough.
Wisconsin firing Chyrst. - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad. Regressing back to the median.
Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin. Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play. Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth.
Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run. He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system". Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though. Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is.
You are what you are in the NFL. And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy. I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time.
The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense. That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button.
Carolina didn't.
The Jets sort of could but didn't.
The Steelers could be didn't.
Atlanta finally did.
End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell. Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design. At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years.
The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep.
The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season. It's not their fault, they don't know any better. But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing.
The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different. The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position. Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games. I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault. I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead. I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.
Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season. I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue. Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways. Horse, meet water, won't drink. Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment.
But you can't tell fans that. You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it. You really can't do that with anything. I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment. The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.
Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics.
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread. I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.
I appreciate the constructive talk.
As I mentioned before, I appreciate your posts even though I lack the football literacy to understand half of the stuff you post in your breakdown thread. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake. We think football is played with the feet, as it has been for well over a century, and are dumbfounded to find it is what you call this oddly shaped pigskin throwie-runny ball.
Knowing this, I by no means consider myself a suitable candidate for a position at a professional football organization (other professional organizations, most certainly). Nor do I expect the 'input' I provide free of charge through this board to be acted upon.
I haven't reached the apathy some of the lifelong Browns supporters are saying they feel, and I hope I never do. Seeing the Browns play like they did yesterday is gut-wrenching. Whether a play goes the Browns way, or the oppositions', I am going to continue to shout expletives at the TV. Just slightly different expletives.
The point being: the post I quoted comes across as being frustrated about the opinions and emotions voiced on the board. A post in the game-day thread seemed to contain similar frustration. This is a fan forum. It is a place where fans come to share their experience of supporting the Browns. It is supposed to contain the emotions and opinions of the members, informed or otherwise.
You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments. I am going to continue to call for the proverbial head of Woods and whoever the f*ck the STC is, and every other knee-jerk reaction I have to seeing the Browns playing the way they are. It makes supporting the Browns that little more bearable.
GO (multiple expletives) BROWNS! -
Double edged sword.
Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise. Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.
Steelers are a prime example. Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs. And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough.
Wisconsin firing Chyrst. - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad. Regressing back to the median.
Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin. Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play. Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth.
Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run. He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system". Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though. Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is.
You are what you are in the NFL. And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy. I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time.
The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense. That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button.
Carolina didn't.
The Jets sort of could but didn't.
The Steelers could be didn't.
Atlanta finally did.
End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell. Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design. At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years.
The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep.
The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season. It's not their fault, they don't know any better. But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing.
The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different. The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position. Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games. I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault. I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead. I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.
Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season. I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue. Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways. Horse, meet water, won't drink. Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment.
But you can't tell fans that. You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it. You really can't do that with anything. I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment. The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.
Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics.
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread. I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.
I appreciate the constructive talk.
As I mentioned before, I appreciate your posts even though I lack the football literacy to understand half of the stuff you post in your breakdown thread. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake. We think football is played with the feet, as it has been for well over a century, and are dumbfounded to find it is what you call this oddly shaped pigskin throwie-runny ball.
Knowing this, I by no means consider myself a suitable candidate for a position at a professional football organization (other professional organizations, most certainly). Nor do I expect the 'input' I provide free of charge through this board to be acted upon.
I haven't reached the apathy some of the lifelong Browns supporters are saying they feel, and I hope I never do. Seeing the Browns play like they did yesterday is gut-wrenching. Whether a play goes the Browns way, or the oppositions', I am going to continue to shout expletives at the TV. Just slightly different expletives.
The point being: the post I quoted comes across as being frustrated about the opinions and emotions voiced on the board. A post in the game-day thread seemed to contain similar frustration. This is a fan forum. It is a place where fans come to share their experience of supporting the Browns. It is supposed to contain the emotions and opinions of the members, informed or otherwise.
You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments. I am going to continue to call for the proverbial head of Woods and whoever the f*ck the STC is, and every other knee-jerk reaction I have to seeing the Browns playing the way they are. It makes supporting the Browns that little more bearable.
GO (multiple expletives) BROWNS!
You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments.You're right. You're absolutely right.
I'm just possessed of method and logic, therefore I can sort of emotionally remove myself from the equation once I see an outcome on the horizon. Really helps to make level headed personal and financial decisions. Doesn't excuse the fact that you're correct though - this is a place where people can and should vent.
This team was built to struggle. Flat out, doesn't take much to see that if you follow the right football minds. I'll lead you guys there if you follow the bread crumb trail. So for fans to react so.... off cuff, is confusing to me. I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.
. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake.
Oh, you done goofed, pal.
There's two things I can't stand.
- People who are intollerant of other people's cultures....
- ..... and the Dutch
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I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.
You want this from Browns fans??
Good luck
He might not see this. He put me on mute yesterday, because I complain too much about crappy football
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
You say fan(atic)s should adjust their expectations, and I for one have. You would do well to do the same, when it comes to your expectations of other members' comments.You're right. You're absolutely right.
I'm just possessed of method and logic, therefore I can sort of emotionally remove myself from the equation once I see an outcome on the horizon. Really helps to make level headed personal and financial decisions. Doesn't excuse the fact that you're correct though - this is a place where people can and should vent.
This team was built to struggle. Flat out, doesn't take much to see that if you follow the right football minds. I'll lead you guys there if you follow the bread crumb trail. So for fans to react so.... off cuff, is confusing to me. I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.
. I'm Dutch for Chirst sake.
Oh, you done goofed, pal.
There's two things I can't stand.
- People who are intollerant of other people's cultures....
- ..... and the Dutch
Oh, you done goofed, pal.
There's two things I can't stand.
- People who are intollerant of other people's cultures....
- ..... and the Dutch
Appreciate the response, but...
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I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.
You want this from Browns fans??
Good luck
He might not see this. He put me on mute yesterday, because I complain too much about crappy football
I suppose it boils down to my believing people need healthy expectations and consequently healthy responses to the outcomes of what is expected.
You want this from Browns fans??
Good luck
He might not see this. He put me on mute yesterday, because I complain too much about crappy football
That would be a shame, and kind of the point of my excessively lengthy comment.
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Didn’t watch Sunday I’m out here in amazing Central Colorado. Being ignorant here I’m not going to assess but I see a lot of venom tossed at Brissett and calling on Dobbs. What did some of you expect?
I expected a defense that would keep us in games and a game manager QB helping guide a victory. Not putting Brissett in situations where he needs to throw 45 times to keep up.
Don't disagree to a point. JB had an open throw yesterday, very little pressure at the time. Under threw the ball and it was picked. Last week. had an opportunity to run for a potential first down in the red zone, JB threw a pick instead. There have been additional instances when he should run verses throw. Yesterday, JB's pocket presence was poor. JB can run, but is slow. Dobbs IMO, gives us a more Watson-esq type of offense.
And I agree with you wholeheartedly that our defense has been shit. Blown coverages, despite being 12th (as of yesterday) on 3rd down conversions, it does seem like it's a lot worse. We had one sack yesterday, one? We should be expecting more out of Garret. Why aren't we pressuring more and showing more blitz packages, is that personnel, or is that Joe Woods?
Why aren't we pressuring more and showing more blitz packages, is that personnel, or is that Joe Woods?
I really have to ask, what did everyone else see yesterday? Because I'm trying to understand the minds of fans more, if I can.
I see you have an upvote, which means there is yourself and at least one other person who believed we didn't send more pressures. Meanwhile I saw the total opposite. We blitz'd ourselves into trouble, or blitz'd ourselves knowing it causes trouble and were willing to live with the potential trade off.
So I'm curious as to what lead you to feel that we didn't actually send pressure yesterday? Was it that it didn't get home? Or that you just genuinely didn't see the Browns call it as much as you'd like? Which leads to another question, what percentage would make you feel comfortable on the blitz being called?
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Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do.Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?
OR?
Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster. What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?
We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1.
I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time ?
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Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do.Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?
OR?
Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster. What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?
We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1.
I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time ?
Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do.Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?
OR?
Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster. What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?
We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1.
I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time ?
Yes!!!! Bills secondary. 49ers Oline. Chargers multiple groups…list goes on and on.
Go back and look at unit rankings right around preseason time. The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL.
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Whenever we fire up the “fire everyone”machine in Cleveland I ask myself “Does the coach have the players to win?”
For once, I think they do.Sure our IDL is weak, but is every unit on every winning team in the NFL perfect? Do all winning coaches in the NFL have the perfect player groups across their teams?
OR?
Are good coaches/organizations able to put their players in the best positions to make plays/win games based on those players’ abilities and skill sets. Our staff for whatever reason can’t make this happen . . . On a pretty talented roster. What do you think Belichick’s record would be with this squad against the schedule we played?
We’re really gonna blame Brissett and Tommy Togiai for opposing wide receivers just milling around the field wide open all year? Uncle Rico could’ve had the same day Zappe had yesterday throwing to guys taking leisurely strolls wide open across First Energy field all day, Its the glaring reason we are 2-4 and not 5-1.
I didn’t go into the season with many expectations but I did expect our touted secondary to be able to cover at least one guy at least one time ?
Yes!!!! Bills secondary. 49ers Oline. Chargers multiple groups…list goes on and on.
Go back and look at unit rankings right around preseason time. The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL.
The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL.This ^^^^
I’ve mentioned it before, that we have invested lots of money and draft capital in the secondary.
The results are underwhelming, and it either boils down to talent or coaching.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
I split season tickets with my cousin, great view in the first row of the upper deck. If I had to make the decision today, I wouldn't renew for 2023. I'm actually more upset now than when they drafted Manziel, and didn't think that was possible.
I, like most of you here, am nearly broken as a fan.
I fear heads will roll. Like @Flugel wrote, you can't fire the owner. So Stefanski may be the scapegoat. New staff comes in without first round picks for 3 years. Ugh.
Double edged sword.
Fans, the overwhelming majority, have little to no idea what they're talking about football I.Q. wise. Organizations would do well to avoid listening to their fans, apart from putting a winning product on the field which shuts everyone up.
Steelers are a prime example. Their fans want Kenny Pickett because people always believe that the young rookie will come in and give their offense what it needs. And while you may get a temporary boost in morale or improved play, that boost almost always comes crashing back down to the median soon enough.
Wisconsin firing Chyrst. - wins the next game, then losses to a bad Sparty squad. Regressing back to the median.
Joe Flacco going on a playoff tear with Anquan Boldin. Ravens handed him a contract that hurt the team as much as his play. Because after that 4 game stretch, he came crashing back to Earth.
Nick Foles and the Eagles magical run. He was the hot off-season commodity with people believing, the phrase I LOVE hearing or seeing so much "he was in the wrong system". Circle back around to 95% of fans having know idea how to explain those schemes or systems though. Aaaaaaand Foles regressed back to who he is.
You are what you are in the NFL. And I'm one of the youngest posters on this board, so I'll use a pop culture reference to make this real easy. I never really got into Star Wars, but I know a lot of you guys older than me, that was the Marvel of your time.
The Browns defense, and to an extent, the offense as well, was constructed with a very subtle yet killswitch level weakness - The IDL for the defense and the QB for the offense. That weakness, much like the movie, could be exploited by the right group who were not only aware of its existence, but had the ability to push the button.
Carolina didn't.
The Jets sort of could but didn't.
The Steelers could be didn't.
Atlanta finally did.
End result is the whole damn thing being blown to hell. Unlike the death star, the weakness of the Browns was a failure of the creators known design. At least, I think that's the lore? I don't know, I haven't seen those movies in years.
The Cleveland media and the national media tends to overlook those exploitable subtleties for the same reason our society tends to ignore the heart and soul and focus on the glamour and sexy - because it's appealing, it's simple, doesn't require thought or mental dexterity, and the cosmetic is the most front and center thing to our eye. Few people care to go beyond skin deep.
The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season. It's not their fault, they don't know any better. But Like a magician, I'm shaking my left hand because I don't want you to see what my right hand is doing.
The end result is the same, only the work done to get there is different. The offense, apart from yesterdays game which was a bad matchup across the board, has put this team in winning position. Meanwhile the defense has expectedly regressed and cost us games. I will toot my own here, if you haven't been following what I've been posting, with the screenshots and video links, that isn't my fault. I've lead as many horses to water as I can, fans just prefer to drink the laced kool-aid instead. I get it, kool aid tastes better. But water is better for you.
Just like with Baker, this team has another personnel flaw at a part of it that will blow up the success of a game or season. I saw the coaching adjustments under Baker that would have lead him to water, only to determine that he was the primary issue. Just like with our defense, I've seen the coaches attempt to make adjustments to mask the weakness only to be attacked in new ways. Horse, meet water, won't drink. Just like with Baker, the priority issue is personnel over coaches, at the moment.
But you can't tell fans that. You can't deliver bad news and say that the problem at hand is complex and requires a multi faceted approach to fix it. You really can't do that with anything. I used to run a gym and I would tell people there is no magic pill. It's diet, exercise and commitment. The majority instead took the magic pill route (literally) only to find no meaningful long term improvement.
Adjust your expectations accordingly, Browns fanatics.
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie. You asked me a question in the game thread. I will answer it for you in detail later this afternoon.
I appreciate the constructive talk.
The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.
Many of us feared this throughout the offseason. The IDL. AND the LB'ers being drafted were built for speed. Speed has pretty much been their philosophy. But would it hold up against the run? And when Anthony Walker went down...well, that just magnified it. Hopefully the new guy from Atlanta that Berry traded for will be the Anthony Walker.
So, for two straight games we were getting smashed by the run. Well, Woods is in the hot seat to do something about it. The Patriots like to run. Third string QB. So, I'll commit more guys to the run and play thinner on the back end. Yup! Worked fairly well. BUT, it put too much strain on the back end. And with Ward being out, the secondary had guys wide open.
The IDL / MLB deficiency is just too large to cover up with a comb-over from the back end.
I've defended Stefanski but have stated that I don't care for what I consider to be over aggressive 4th down decision making. And who knows, that could be an organizational mandate. But he's doing what he can with what he's given to work with. Some people wanted him to run 30 times against Bill Belichick, like that was gonna work. Bill makes you play to your weakness...so you better not have one. And Stef did. It's called, the passing game. He's got Brissett, a career backup, who shouldn't throw when he's on the run.
Three quarters of the DL has to be addressed. (Clowney doesn't play enough) Is Delpit a good enough safety? ILB? Hospital Ward...
This thing has to be evaluated during and after next season when they'll have their QB and have another shot at fixing the D.
...and I heard on The Fan today that the organization just hired two analysts.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Appreciate the response, but...
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Have some pizza Dutch.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
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The national and local media sold Browns fans an unintentional lie. That, despite losing 2 so-so DTs, the defense could improve from 11th DVOA by adding.... a rookie 3rd round corner? And starting an IDL that barely kept backup status the previous season.
Many of us feared this throughout the offseason. The IDL. AND the LB'ers being drafted were built for speed. Speed has pretty much been their philosophy. But would it hold up against the run? And when Anthony Walker went down...well, that just magnified it. Hopefully the new guy from Atlanta that Berry traded for will be the Anthony Walker.
So, for two straight games we were getting smashed by the run. Well, Woods is in the hot seat to do something about it. The Patriots like to run. Third string QB. So, I'll commit more guys to the run and play thinner on the back end. Yup! Worked fairly well. BUT, it put too much strain on the back end. And with Ward being out, the secondary had guys wide open.
The IDL / MLB deficiency is just too large to cover up with a comb-over from the back end.
I've defended Stefanski but have stated that I don't care for what I consider to be over aggressive 4th down decision making. And who knows, that could be an organizational mandate. But he's doing what he can with what he's given to work with. Some people wanted him to run 30 times against Bill Belichick, like that was gonna work. Bill makes you play to your weakness...so you better not have one. And Stef did. It's called, the passing game. He's got Brissett, a career backup, who shouldn't throw when he's on the run.
Three quarters of the DL has to be addressed. (Clowney doesn't play enough) Is Delpit a good enough safety? ILB? Hospital Ward...
This thing has to be evaluated during and after next season when they'll have their QB and have another shot at fixing the D.
...and I heard on The Fan today that the organization just hired two analysts.
Many of us feared this throughout the offseason. The IDL. AND the LB'ers being drafted were built for speed. Speed has pretty much been their philosophy. But would it hold up against the run? And when Anthony Walker went down...well, that just magnified it. Hopefully the new guy from Atlanta that Berry traded for will be the Anthony Walker.
So, for two straight games we were getting smashed by the run. Well, Woods is in the hot seat to do something about it. The Patriots like to run. Third string QB. So, I'll commit more guys to the run and play thinner on the back end. Yup! Worked fairly well. BUT, it put too much strain on the back end. And with Ward being out, the secondary had guys wide open.
The IDL / MLB deficiency is just too large to cover up with a comb-over from the back end.
I've defended Stefanski but have stated that I don't care for what I consider to be over aggressive 4th down decision making. And who knows, that could be an organizational mandate. But he's doing what he can with what he's given to work with. Some people wanted him to run 30 times against Bill Belichick, like that was gonna work. Bill makes you play to your weakness...so you better not have one. And Stef did. It's called, the passing game. He's got Brissett, a career backup, who shouldn't throw when he's on the run.
Three quarters of the DL has to be addressed. (Clowney doesn't play enough) Is Delpit a good enough safety? ILB? Hospital Ward...
This thing has to be evaluated during and after next season when they'll have their QB and have another shot at fixing the D.
...and I heard on The Fan today that the organization just hired two analysts.
Fixing the D will largely be getting the talent that we have already accumulated and paid to play better. The sound bites next training camp will be interesting.And stacking depth…guess what 2/3/4 starters will go down so either Woods or the next guy has to adapt and adjust. Quit complaining about the guys that aren’t there. Every d@mn team deals with it.
Aside from a play or two Ward has been part of the problem in the secondary. 5yr. 100M I know we don’t want to believe it…but it is true.
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The secondary could be the most underachieving unit in the entire NFL.
This ^^^^
I’ve mentioned it before, that we have invested lots of money and draft capital in the secondary.
The results are underwhelming, and it either boils down to talent or coaching.
This ^^^^
I’ve mentioned it before, that we have invested lots of money and draft capital in the secondary.
The results are underwhelming, and it either boils down to talent or coaching.
Remember The guy in charge didn’t have the guys back there. We had guys like Sendejo. I am assuming he had input on the selections and signings that were made.
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Why aren't we pressuring more and showing more blitz packages, is that personnel, or is that Joe Woods?
I really have to ask, what did everyone else see yesterday? Because I'm trying to understand the minds of fans more, if I can.
I see you have an upvote, which means there is yourself and at least one other person who believed we didn't send more pressures. Meanwhile I saw the total opposite. We blitz'd ourselves into trouble, or blitz'd ourselves knowing it causes trouble and were willing to live with the potential trade off.
So I'm curious as to what lead you to feel that we didn't actually send pressure yesterday? Was it that it didn't get home? Or that you just genuinely didn't see the Browns call it as much as you'd like? Which leads to another question, what percentage would make you feel comfortable on the blitz being called?
I really have to ask, what did everyone else see yesterday? Because I'm trying to understand the minds of fans more, if I can.
I see you have an upvote, which means there is yourself and at least one other person who believed we didn't send more pressures. Meanwhile I saw the total opposite. We blitz'd ourselves into trouble, or blitz'd ourselves knowing it causes trouble and were willing to live with the potential trade off.
So I'm curious as to what lead you to feel that we didn't actually send pressure yesterday? Was it that it didn't get home? Or that you just genuinely didn't see the Browns call it as much as you'd like? Which leads to another question, what percentage would make you feel comfortable on the blitz being called?
First, my post had more than just what you're quoting, so perhaps the person "upvoting" liked the portion of my post that you chose not quote. Who upvotes is really irrelevant. It's not like everyone has to vote on every post to decide if they agree or not. There could be many more that agree and like myself rarely upvote. In the end, what you believe and feel is all that matters, not some online forum mechanism that is suppose to help you feel better about a posted opinion.
Zeppe went what 24/34. Decent game. He was only sacked twice and only 2 QB hits, in 4 quarters, against this defense that was suppose to be top in the league. Whether it be blitzs, better pressure from front 4, the poor execution of blitzs, schemes, poor tackling, poor coverage, all of it. It stinks. I will be the first to admit that if you're seeing blitz and I'm not, perhaps it's because it look like how a blitz should look because we suck at that too.
We got picked apart by a rookie QB. Most other teams would have welcomed him to the league in a lot worse fashion.
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