??Official Game Day Thread NE Pats vs Your Cleveland Browns??
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So trust me, when coaches should go, I see it and provide good reasons before most anyone.
Stef has no business being let go.
Woods... I'm on the fence with. Mostly because this franchise will need a sacrificial lamb to silence the fans.
See above about Newsome, JoK and Delpit. Further re: Delpit. He is INCREDIBLY aggressive underneath and attacking downhill. So much that misdirection and coverage from playing on a back hash is a liability for him. He's not used to his first step being lateral or backwards. Instead he wants to charge in head first. This is a large part of the reason why he looked better last year and has given this impression of "regression". He simply isn't mentally able to fill the expanded role at a level this defense requires.... yet. Last season he took most of his snaps as the nickel safety, WILL backer and on the edge. This season he's being asked to do more. Now, I say 'yet' because there have been a couple times where he has made some great plays in coverage and I go "YES, Please! More of that". Other times? Not so much.
edit: I feel I have to REALLY drive this point home. The ONLY reason Jacob Phillips is on the field is because of injury, and he's also the green dot. Otherwise JoK would likely be taking his place in dime and nickel roles. He might be one of the worst LB's in coverage and understanding coverages that I've seen.
A couple of things-
If we're going to say in 2021 that the Browns had a cupcake schedule that perhaps artificially inflated the stats, the same can be said this year too. We've played two teams (Steelers and Panthers) in the bottom 4 of total offense, three teams (Jets, Falcons, Pats) smack in the middle or bottom half, and one good offense in the Chargers. And yet here we are essentially the worst defense in football. Hence my overall vibe that this unit has regressed. As has also been noted, outside of Herbert the Browns haven't played one team with their long-term franchise guy under center (unless Zappe goes the TB12 route). That's just alarming to say the least.
I totally agree on Phillips-no business being on the field. I also agree on Stef, for sure.
Look, to say it simply these guys are just playing flat out there. It seems like there's no energy and 6 weeks into the season there's still miscommunication, role assignment confusion, and integrity issues. Those, to me, fall flat on the coach. You can't regress that badly with many of the same guys out of thin air.
A couple of things-
If we're going to say in 2021 that the Browns had a cupcake schedule that perhaps artificially inflated the stats, the same can be said this year too. We've played two teams (Steelers and Panthers) in the bottom 4 of total offense, three teams (Jets, Falcons, Pats) smack in the middle or bottom half, and one good offense in the Chargers. And yet here we are essentially the worst defense in football. Hence my overall vibe that this unit has regressed. As has also been noted, outside of Herbert the Browns haven't played one team with their long-term franchise guy under center (unless Zappe goes the TB12 route). That's just alarming to say the least.
I totally agree on Phillips-no business being on the field. I also agree on Stef, for sure.
Look, to say it simply these guys are just playing flat out there. It seems like there's no energy and 6 weeks into the season there's still miscommunication, role assignment confusion, and integrity issues. Those, to me, fall flat on the coach. You can't regress that badly with many of the same guys out of thin air.
You're forgetting something, this time last year the Browns had the Malik's starting on the IDL and Walker the entire season. That's 27% of your starting defense gone. If you want to limit the numbers to just the front 7, that's 43% of your previous starters gone. And while those previous starters were no means good, they weren't a complete liability against even the most bottom feeder of offenses. The other issue is, since teams on the back half of last years schedule saw the so-so play up the middle, they've now crafted run heavy games plans against teams wanting to play more 2 high (a league wide trend) which also happens coincide with the Browns front office allowing a weakness last year to further grow into an absolute liability.
The communication issues at this point stem almost exclusively around Phillip's, Delpit and Emerson. I've only seen 1 bust from Ward, JJ3 or Newsome in 3 weeks. So that means I've got a trash LB, a young DB whose head is going a mile a minute, but we need on the field and finally a rookie corner... That's about par the course, IMHO.
Run fits haven't really been an issue. Players are in their gaps pre-snap. We're just straight up losing those individual battles up front 80% of the time. Which speaks to what I've said about our talent and depth along the line.
And as we saw with the Pats, when we over simplify things too much on the back end, we can be beaten in man coverage.
Perhaps this is the best way of phrasing it - we haven't quite regressed, but we have stretched our roster out a bit too thin.
And roster construction lies with Depo and Berry.
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My guess as the problem with the offense is this -
the Browns didn't have a genuine deep ball threat last year, and Baker was playing stupidly hurt with a shoulder sling job.
Baker was very, very accurate coming out of college - so with obj - it opened up things for their offense - they went to the playoffs. beat pukesburg.
After that, no obj, no deep threat, the offense was stifled, and Baker playing injured added serious failure on top of failure.
This year, they added Amari Cooper - a real serious downfield threat.
Bissett - one of his biggest weaknesses is downfield accuracy.
and so it goes. The Browns are clueless as to how to put all the pieces in place.
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Having said that - there is the object of the historically stupid trade the Browns made.
Guess who these weaknesses are in their draft profile:
"
Weaknesses- Frame is a little more slender than teams typically like
- Accuracy runs hot and cold
- Tends to over-stride on drive throws, causing release point to drop and balls to sail
- Ball placement on crossing routes and slants needs to improve
- Will leave throws behind intended targets
- Deep-ball accuracy has been scatter-shot over his last two seasons at Clemson, with throws sailing well beyond his target
- Design of offense limited his need to make full-field reads
- Has to become adept at working through progressions and playing chess against safeties
- Needs to let routes develop rather than rushing anticipatory throws
- Too many interceptions due to lack of vision, placement or decision-making
- Threw interception vs
- Troy against bracketed coverage he didn't see
- Baited into bad-decision interceptions twice by Florida State cornerbacks
- Has issues improvising away from initial, pre-snap plan even when pathway to target becomes muddy
Shotgun quarterback who, like Jared Goff, could take time getting used to huddling, pace of play-calling and drop-backs from under center"
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not Baker. or Bissett. etc etc.
Watson. Those are from watson's draft profile.
***************************************So, more failures.My problem with the defense is still - if they had KEPT their damn pick, they could have added Jordan Davis to the interior of their defensive line. Just think how much that would have helped their lb's and helped stop the run.Just seems hopeless.I just don't know. -
A couple of things-
If we're going to say in 2021 that the Browns had a cupcake schedule that perhaps artificially inflated the stats, the same can be said this year too. We've played two teams (Steelers and Panthers) in the bottom 4 of total offense, three teams (Jets, Falcons, Pats) smack in the middle or bottom half, and one good offense in the Chargers. And yet here we are essentially the worst defense in football. Hence my overall vibe that this unit has regressed. As has also been noted, outside of Herbert the Browns haven't played one team with their long-term franchise guy under center (unless Zappe goes the TB12 route). That's just alarming to say the least.
I totally agree on Phillips-no business being on the field. I also agree on Stef, for sure.
Look, to say it simply these guys are just playing flat out there. It seems like there's no energy and 6 weeks into the season there's still miscommunication, role assignment confusion, and integrity issues. Those, to me, fall flat on the coach. You can't regress that badly with many of the same guys out of thin air.
You're forgetting something, this time last year the Browns had the Malik's starting on the IDL and Walker the entire season. That's 27% of your starting defense gone. If you want to limit the numbers to just the front 7, that's 43% of your previous starters gone. And while those previous starters were no means good, they weren't a complete liability against even the most bottom feeder of offenses. The other issue is, since teams on the back half of last years schedule saw the so-so play up the middle, they've now crafted run heavy games plans against teams wanting to play more 2 high (a league wide trend) which also happens coincide with the Browns front office allowing a weakness last year to further grow into an absolute liability.
The communication issues at this point stem almost exclusively around Phillip's, Delpit and Emerson. I've only seen 1 bust from Ward, JJ3 or Newsome in 3 weeks. So that means I've got a trash LB, a young DB whose head is going a mile a minute, but we need on the field and finally a rookie corner... That's about par the course, IMHO.
Run fits haven't really been an issue. Players are in their gaps pre-snap. We're just straight up losing those individual battles up front 80% of the time. Which speaks to what I've said about our talent and depth along the line.
And as we saw with the Pats, when we over simplify things too much on the back end, we can be beaten in man coverage.
Perhaps this is the best way of phrasing it - we haven't quite regressed, but we have stretched our roster out a bit too thin.
And roster construction lies with Depo and Berry.
And as we saw with the Pats, when we over simplify things too much on the back end, we can be beaten in man coverage.
Perhaps this is the best way of phrasing it - we haven't quite regressed, but we have stretched our roster out a bit too thin.
And roster construction lies with Depo and Berry.
And I get all that, for sure. But it isn't just regression in talent areas. It's guys like Denzel Ward saying "ain't my fault" on Twitter, or JJ3 saying the team has "commitment issues". It's Joel Bitonio coming out and essentially saying guys (on defense) aren't spending enough time looking at film and putting out effort:
This is why I'm saying strongly that coaching has to change at the defensive level. Woods lost this defense and it's showing on the field.
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Luckily I have emotionally checked out of this year. The jets game was a sign of things to come.
this is a concerning loss. So bad that you turn it off. The browns have talent. They aren’t utilizing it. If things don’t change when Watson comes back stef might get fired. Losing those valuable easy early games killed the season.
Luckily I have emotionally checked out of this year. The jets game was a sign of things to come.
this is a concerning loss. So bad that you turn it off. The browns have talent. They aren’t utilizing it. If things don’t change when Watson comes back stef might get fired. Losing those valuable easy early games killed the season.
were 1 game outta first place that could change on sunday
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Totally shitty coaching, through and through absolutely terrible coaching.
Preparation terrible
In game decisions terrible
Personal decisions terrible
Kevin needs to be GONE
Totally shitty coaching, through and through absolutely terrible coaching.
Preparation terrible
In game decisions terrible
Personal decisions terrible
Kevin needs to be GONE
fire the coach get rid of everyone Were In The Fuck has that gotten us over the years ya noob ever realize that younger coachs need time to develop ? just as players do so sure fire everyone and never give the coach a chance to work with Watson great idea
side note : we are 21-18 with a trip to the playoffs
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Syd I love the optimism. I think Stefanski is a good playcaller and O coordinator. Is he a good head coach? Idk.
when woods is gone in the off-season, he will have one more year with a new defense to prove he can get into the post season.
with this roster, idk how they are 2-4. The ways they have lost games is just embarrassing. It’s not just the players, it’s an internal issue.
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And as we saw with the Pats, when we over simplify things too much on the back end, we can be beaten in man coverage.
Perhaps this is the best way of phrasing it - we haven't quite regressed, but we have stretched our roster out a bit too thin.
And roster construction lies with Depo and Berry.
And I get all that, for sure. But it isn't just regression in talent areas. It's guys like Denzel Ward saying "ain't my fault" on Twitter, or JJ3 saying the team has "commitment issues". It's Joel Bitonio coming out and essentially saying guys (on defense) aren't spending enough time looking at film and putting out effort:
This is why I'm saying strongly that coaching has to change at the defensive level. Woods lost this defense and it's showing on the field.
And I get all that, for sure. But it isn't just regression in talent areas. It's guys like Denzel Ward saying "ain't my fault" on Twitter, or JJ3 saying the team has "commitment issues". It's Joel Bitonio coming out and essentially saying guys (on defense) aren't spending enough time looking at film and putting out effort:
This is why I'm saying strongly that coaching has to change at the defensive level. Woods lost this defense and it's showing on the field.
That brings a two fold issue to my mind.
- If players are having a problem with the coaches, why is it not being addressed within the locker and meeting room? Why are players not holding each other accountable as well? JJ3 saying the team has commitment issues means he, as the leader of the secondary, should be working hand in hand with the coaches to weed that mentality out.
- If players have a problem with Woods, which I won't rule out as a possibility, why are they unable to put forth effort and still execute their assignments? I.E., why are they not being professional athletes? So where is the personal accountability in all this?
At this point, if the trade off for getting the front office to address the DL and LB issues is to get rid of Woods, then I'm all for it. Because any other coordinator that comes in here with enjoy limited success at best with this current group. But if we're going to fire Woods and not address personnel, then we are following the definition of insanity.
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still can't explain how this same defense went to GB last Christmas and lost by only 2 ?
Elliott/T.Bryan/Delpit & Winovich fall under some type of future player development overthinking it ?
I mean heck, we could throw in names of below, that fall under 2 years or more of missing development
Schwartz/ Felton/ Rochell/ Togi/ Taki/ Phillips/ Fields/ Greedy to R. Harrison jr.
They've also might have found some good hits such as developing D'E Johnson/ R. Hudson/ E. Pocic & H. Froholdt.. but our best 2 position coaches may have the most to do with it ?
We have a whole department for this.. Lead by Andrew Berry
- Assistant general manager/vice president of player personnel – Glenn Cook
- Vice president of player personnel process and development – Ken Kovash
- Director of player personnel – Dan Saganey
Coaches/Players/Front office?
a 2022 combo team effort, all have faults in this 2-4 start
What's the one thing the Cavs/Guardians & Browns all have in common? young player development, needs more hits than misses
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