The official Terry Pluto thread
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Only the future success of the team and the whim of Jimmy and Dee make any difference. Maybe a slight bit from whoever happens to have their ear at the present time which is pretty fluid. I don't see him getting shit canned this season no matter what happens. Next season? There are actually Four Aces in the deck so I guess hitting a 20 could possibly work but if it doesn't will the player admit it was a risky call? To paraphrase Bruce Drennan all bets are off. I doubt the haslams will ever admit that they fucked anything up so if we don't go to the Super Bowl next season the next scapegoat will be stefanski.
WSS
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Neither of those guys is going anywhere. Watson has the most upside. If we get fucked at least our assholes are used to it.
Well that's true. The mistake in my opinion is that the quarterback was the problem and or the solution. We aren't losing games because of Jacoby Brissett. On the other hand Tom Brady isn't a great quarterback because he's super powerful. And there's nothing to lead me to believe that DeShaun Watson is anything but. But Browns fans, like all fans, have a tendency to lionize and demonize individuals. Garrett and Clowney still part of one of the worst defensive units in the league.
On the other hand I was listening to Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit. Will the return of Watson change that?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Neither of those guys is going anywhere. Watson has the most upside. If we get fucked at least our assholes are used to it.
Well that's true. The mistake in my opinion is that the quarterback was the problem and or the solution. We aren't losing games because of Jacoby Brissett. On the other hand Tom Brady isn't a great quarterback because he's super powerful. And there's nothing to lead me to believe that DeShaun Watson is anything but. But Browns fans, like all fans, have a tendency to lionize and demonize individuals. Garrett and Clowney still part of one of the worst defensive units in the league.
On the other hand I was listening to Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit. Will the return of Watson change that?
WSS
Well that's true. The mistake in my opinion is that the quarterback was the problem and or the solution. We aren't losing games because of Jacoby Brissett. On the other hand Tom Brady isn't a great quarterback because he's super powerful. And there's nothing to lead me to believe that DeShaun Watson is anything but. But Browns fans, like all fans, have a tendency to lionize and demonize individuals. Garrett and Clowney still part of one of the worst defensive units in the league.
On the other hand I was listening to Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit. Will the return of Watson change that?
WSS
As much as I loathe Grossi... I agree on this one... I believe Joe Woods has lost the teams confidence on the defensive side of the ball......
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
Neither of those guys is going anywhere. Watson has the most upside. If we get fucked at least our assholes are used to it.
Well that's true. The mistake in my opinion is that the quarterback was the problem and or the solution. We aren't losing games because of Jacoby Brissett. On the other hand Tom Brady isn't a great quarterback because he's super powerful. And there's nothing to lead me to believe that DeShaun Watson is anything but. But Browns fans, like all fans, have a tendency to lionize and demonize individuals. Garrett and Clowney still part of one of the worst defensive units in the league.
On the other hand I was listening to Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit. Will the return of Watson change that?
WSS
Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit.
Welcome to the modern mercenary NFL. Kinda' like soldiers fighting for Russia. When the going gets tough, they get going...in the other direction. If the losses are piling up, and the game is slipping away, it turns to self preservation.
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Well that's true. The mistake in my opinion is that the quarterback was the problem and or the solution. We aren't losing games because of Jacoby Brissett. On the other hand Tom Brady isn't a great quarterback because he's super powerful. And there's nothing to lead me to believe that DeShaun Watson is anything but. But Browns fans, like all fans, have a tendency to lionize and demonize individuals. Garrett and Clowney still part of one of the worst defensive units in the league.
On the other hand I was listening to Tony Grossi yesterday he seems to believe that the team just doesn't give a shit. Will the return of Watson change that?
WSS
As much as I loathe Grossi... I agree on this one... I believe Joe Woods has lost the teams confidence on the defensive side of the ball......
As much as I loathe Grossi... I agree on this one... I believe Joe Woods has lost the teams confidence on the defensive side of the ball......
I hear ya! And how nice of him to type the obvious.
Here's the BAD part of that. When this starts happening all over (not just Grossi), it gave Myles (our alleged Defensive Leader) an excuse to quit at the very 1st sign of aversity last week. Consequently, it okays everyone else to follow suit. As much as Joe Woods doesn't please anyone in the fanbase - the players making anywhere from 6 figures to triple digit millions only play 17 games within the 52 weeks of the calendar year. They have a job to do - instead giving the FUCK YOU to all of the fans travelling to see them play and/or buying the team merchandise - a very spoiled Myles Garrett questions how dare these home fans boo us. That's a 1st overall draft pick we preferred to Patrick Mahomes and................................... THE DeShaun Watson we are now guaranteeing 230 million $ to (and gave up 3 1st round draft picks to acquire).
Yes, Woods has failed but I don't EVER see a guy like TJ Watt looking for his first excuse to quit on the field. I never hear him saying "I want to be Defensive MVP/Player of the Year." He just goes out and busts his tail from start to finish. His pads do all the talking they need to, Most guys would be on IR with the injury he is playing through - he got 2 sacks and sparked his team to victory last week.
When the media (not just Grossi) begins to pour gas on the fire - these guys take it as their biggest excuse to quit. When a Team Leader like Myles Garrett quits - good luck competing after the coin toss.
I'm not saying I don't want Joe Woods replaced. I AM saying that Church Mouse Haslam needs to grow a pair under the acorn and start lighting fannies as early as last Sunday!
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Here's the latest. Hope everybody can get by the paywall or whatever. I can't be the only guy getting sick of the finger pointing but here we go again. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the word team but apparently it hasn't been enough. Like I said last week Tony Grossi mentioned that he felt the players didn't care anymore.
No kidding; probably lots of reasons for that.
One big problem I'm seeing here, just one, is star players bitching in public about the coaching staff or other players. Seems like it started with Beckham and his dad as he underperformed through the season and now Myles Garrett. And even though he's kept his mouth shut in private I can't imagine Jacoby Brissett being happy with the situation as well as he's played. All these years is a backup and he finally gets to prove that he can play in the NFL and now will get the boot.
Is Joe Woods a failure because the players are too lazy or stupid to run his defense?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
Here's the latest. Hope everybody can get by the paywall or whatever. I can't be the only guy getting sick of the finger pointing but here we go again. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the word team but apparently it hasn't been enough. Like I said last week Tony Grossi mentioned that he felt the players didn't care anymore.
No kidding; probably lots of reasons for that.
One big problem I'm seeing here, just one, is star players bitching in public about the coaching staff or other players. Seems like it started with Beckham and his dad as he underperformed through the season and now Myles Garrett. And even though he's kept his mouth shut in private I can't imagine Jacoby Brissett being happy with the situation as well as he's played. All these years is a backup and he finally gets to prove that he can play in the NFL and now will get the boot.
Is Joe Woods a failure because the players are too lazy or stupid to run his defense?
WSS
Is Joe Woods a failure because the players are too lazy or stupid to run his defense?
WSS
YES!!!!
I don't think an NFL Defensive Coordinator is scheming his players to let WRs & TEs run free in his secondary.
Can Woods call ore blitzes? Sure. But not if these idiots in the secondary cannot "communicate."
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Here's the latest. Hope everybody can get by the paywall or whatever. I can't be the only guy getting sick of the finger pointing but here we go again. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the word team but apparently it hasn't been enough. Like I said last week Tony Grossi mentioned that he felt the players didn't care anymore.
No kidding; probably lots of reasons for that.
One big problem I'm seeing here, just one, is star players bitching in public about the coaching staff or other players. Seems like it started with Beckham and his dad as he underperformed through the season and now Myles Garrett. And even though he's kept his mouth shut in private I can't imagine Jacoby Brissett being happy with the situation as well as he's played. All these years is a backup and he finally gets to prove that he can play in the NFL and now will get the boot.
Is Joe Woods a failure because the players are too lazy or stupid to run his defense?
WSS
Here's the latest. Hope everybody can get by the paywall or whatever. I can't be the only guy getting sick of the finger pointing but here we go again. I don't know how many times I have to repeat the word team but apparently it hasn't been enough. Like I said last week Tony Grossi mentioned that he felt the players didn't care anymore.
No kidding; probably lots of reasons for that.
One big problem I'm seeing here, just one, is star players bitching in public about the coaching staff or other players. Seems like it started with Beckham and his dad as he underperformed through the season and now Myles Garrett. And even though he's kept his mouth shut in private I can't imagine Jacoby Brissett being happy with the situation as well as he's played. All these years is a backup and he finally gets to prove that he can play in the NFL and now will get the boot.
Is Joe Woods a failure because the players are too lazy or stupid to run his defense?
WSS
Was able to read it Steve. I immensely respect Pluto's takes, and not just because we both went to the same High School.
Couple of things, I wasn't the only one who said with 2 minutes left in the first half... "Just watch, the Browns are going to let the Bills walk right down the field and score." On the Diggs TD- pre snap- you could see the Browns defensive backfield was totally discombobulated, they should have called a time out. Yep- I thought YOU had him.
Yeah when the going gets tough, the Browns defense quits. That was Deron Cherry's take. Listening to some of the postgame interviews, I got the impression the players largely don't give a shit anymore. It's a job, and I'm getting paid.
Since the Browns defense can't hardly play any worse, fine- fire Joe Woods. But it's not going to fix the problem that the interior of the Browns defensive line is tissue paper soft. As soon as teams figure out running up the middle on Cleveland is damn near a guaranteed 5 yard gain- every time.
I suppose I should lay off ragging on Brissette, statistically he is what he is, a career backup playing to the best of his ability. But it's maddening to see him miss by a hair touchdown passes to guys wide open in the end zone. He had no chance when the Browns got way down against Buffalo, and their defense could just tee off on him.
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Sure, we can replace Woods. But hopefully we don't stray so far from our current base that we need lots of new players to match the new scheme.
Sure, we can replace Woods. But hopefully we don't stray so far from our current base that we need lots of new players to match the new scheme.
Solid point. Whoever came up with the idea of "let's be innovative and totally disregard the DT position while we'll count on light/lean framed LBers to do it all" hasn't made things easier for anybody. As a result, we can't keep LBers healthy for very long - because we can't keep offensive linemen off of them. Even worse, the Browns defense against the run tends to become a forfeit way too much for comfort.
Personnel is what's getting the blind eye because addressing that is far more complicated than just giving 1 guy his walking papers.
The decision makers here are Berry and DePodesta. Everything stems from their philosophies (if those even match or come close to aligning). Their idea about not paying/valuing DTs while we have the 2 of the highest paid OGs in the league. Interior line play is very important - oh wait, no it is not. We can run our way to 25 points per game but we can rank somewhere between 26th and 32nd in points allowed forfeiting against the run?
People can't wait to point out the problem is coaching on the defensive side and it might very well be. However, they have a DC (Joe Woods for a few more cups of coffee), Def Run Game Coordinator (Ben Bloom), DL Coach (Chris Kiffin) Assistant DL Coach (Jordan Thomas),DB Coach (Jeff Howard), Assistant DB Coach (Brandon Lynch) LB Coach (Jason Tarver), Defensive Assistant (Zach Dunn), Defensive Quality Control (Jeff Anderson). This looks like enough guys to point out issues and resolutions in the film room among the position groups and as a whole.
I don't really know what the hiring process or criteria is when your Head Coach is hired a couple weeks before your GM which is the case with Stefanski and Berry. Usually Head Coaches choose their Coordinators; but I wouldn't be surprised if that got powerplayed by the other FO Chief (DePo).
We're going to be playing musical Coaches and Coordinators for however long the chaos at the top continues under Haslam's rule. And why because because fans with 20-30 years of frustration built-up in them really need to know if we just fire this 1 Coordinator or HC - it's a welcome mat to better days are finally here. Well, we went 11-5 in 2020 punctuated by lighting up Pittsburgh with 48 points and forcing 5 INTs on Pitts' QB in the playoffs in January of 2021. While that feels like 3 decades ago - it's only 2022.
Leadership is failing this team when the highest paid guys on our defense are acting more like brats than team leaders. Denzel Ward and his $100,000,000 contract has been way more brat than team leader. Myles Garrett who has a very high salary commitment has gone after the fans for booing and now the DC. Jed Clowney lines up offsides more than any experienced DL vet should - setting a bad example for focus and care about what he needs to do (when he does feel like suiting up). These are the designated IMPORTANT Leaders on this defense by salary, by talent which should include by example on and off the field and even behind the steering wheel. I'm willing to guess their salaries in a 2-3 year period here easily outrank the Coordinator and the next one the FO chooses (who they may also reject).
This is nothing like the Browns I adored in the 80s. There were so many fun players to watch that made picking just 1 favorite player or 2 very challenging. Today, I have Nick Chubb and Joel Bitonio - with nobody on defense worthy. I'm too disappointed in Garrett's attitude to give a rat what he does. BTW, he's not even close to being the only edge rusher that gets doubled/chipped.
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...not allowed to view the content that you posted.
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...not allowed to view the content that you posted.
...not allowed to view the content that you posted.
Fucking paywall.
I know there are ways to get around them I forget which one works.
WSS
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Fucking paywall.
I know there are ways to get around them I forget which one works.
WSS
Geritol to the rescue!
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
QB performance is not what caused this team to stink. Brissett played well enough for this team to be above .500 and in a playoff position.
The problem I have with Jigs optimism is that is of the same variety that was widely held for this team at the beginning of the season.
We supposedly had talent that would have the Browns in a good position when Watson took over, and then when he did takeover, we were going to see fireworks.
Who threw water on them when we weren't looking ?
The continued lack of discipline and player under-performance indicates that Kevin Stefanski is not a high-value asset.
Losing him will not hurt this team. He simply has not delivered wow factor in any single aspect of the game. He is boiled, unflavored white rice. Really, you can't keep this guy.
Super.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
QB performance is not what caused this team to stink. Brissett played well enough for this team to be above .500 and in a playoff position.
The problem I have with Jigs optimism is that is of the same variety that was widely held for this team at the beginning of the season.
We supposedly had talent that would have the Browns in a good position when Watson took over, and then when he did takeover, we were going to see fireworks.
Who threw water on them when we weren't looking ?
The continued lack of discipline and player under-performance indicates that Kevin Stefanski is not a high-value asset.
Losing him will not hurt this team. He simply has not delivered wow factor in any single aspect of the game. He is boiled, unflavored white rice. Really, you can't keep this guy.
We don't have to KEEP him - especially since all he wants to do is be the OC and call the plays anyway. As Dutch was trying to tell you - the offense was on auto-pilot averaging 25 points per game (which ranked 6th out of 32 teams before the bye week) while the DEFENSE and SPECIAL TEAMS sucked bad enough to keep us losing. That slam dunks where is the HEAD COACH? We have an Offensive Coordinator - Alex Van Pelt that led the Browns offense to 41 points (calling the plays) when Stefanski had to miss the playoff game. The Browns scored 48 points on a night the entire planet thought it would be Baker Mayfield throwing the 5 interceptions instead of Ben Rapen-n'ridin. He had a compatible game plan where Baker threw 3 TD passes and ZERO interceptions. Point? Where in all this points to - the only unit that needs Stefanski's babysitting is on offense? They did better against Pittsburgh's starters that day with Van Pelt than they did against Pittsburgh's back-ups the week before with Stefanski. The other game Stefanski called the plays against them that season - Pittsburgh won.
Here's the thing. Stefanski is here because Office Depot-desta wants him here. Depo was pissed the owner hired Freddie Kitchens over his 1st choice (Stefanski) the first time; so Jimmy gave him his way the 2nd time. The flattery of it all delivered him the "yes sir" guy he wanted all along.
Truth is - I don't know what kind of Head Coach Stefanski can be. Right now, he's oblivious to the 2 phases of the game that have this team defined by a losing record. You bring up lack of discipline - how about the roughing the kicker/punter at the 5 yard line that prevented the Browns from getting ideal field position. Instead, it gave Cincy a 1st down to attack a defense that felt the wind go out of it's sails. And where was Stefanski? With his nose buried in his spread sheet searching for the next play he wanted to call. Other times this year our Special Teams has had 12 men on the field giving the opponents first downs that should have warranted a Head Coach's attention instead of the 2 blind eyes per usual.
Here's what it always boils down to - does the REASON why Stefanski is here want him to be a Head Coach or just an Offensive Coordinator? The only Coordinator he baby sits is Alex Van Pelt while the 2 units with the most consistent carelessness have total autonomy. Make sense? It shouldn't. Bill Parcells would have either corrected Priefer and Woods immediately or replaced/upgraded them with former altar boys from your church. That isn't at all want Depodesta wants here though. He wants what you're seeing. He thinks he can control everything through Stefanski while his STs Coordinator and Defensive Coordinator have been playing with matches next to explosives blowing up in their faces all year. We just witnessed Cincy's DT/IDL (DJ Reader) dominate our OL. He gave such an inside push that any guys trying to trap or pull had to go around that causing them not to get there and/or slow up Chubb (who's usually patient in allowing them to get out in front of him to lead the way). Reader's dominance opened up the swarm we couldn't block ALL day. Depodesta and Berry don't believe DT/IDL are important so we have 4 light/lean framed LBers on IR today. This is all inevitable if your owner leans on a Baseball guy to run his football franchise.
But hey, if it gives everyone relief? Just pretend firing Stefanski removes the REAL problem like we did with the last Head Coach; the one before that; the one before that; the one before that; and the one before that. Some day, we'll finally ask the right questions - who is hiring the Head Coach and what is the criteria behind the selection, Once we know all that in advance - we can save a lot of time and disappointment on our expectations. Right now, we're going through another extended period that excuses losing and parks enthusiasm/excitement. More specifically, welcome to Preseason Football in December that was foretold in November (and anticipated even earlier). If you have a disease that needs to be removed - you treat the symptoms while you try to remove the threat attacking the host. Right now the threat is our FO (and I can only guess Berry is the lesser of 2 evils); but the host doesn't have 2 brain cells on speaking terms. People will probably get fired and we''ll be right back to counting on who's in charge of hiring the upgrade. Like the Halloween sequel - we can only hope it ends some day...
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1) Zone vs Man -- Browns are a top10 team when playing zone despite narrative that some DB's are "better in man."
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3) Woods should get a shot this week with Cooper and Bell hobbled.
4) Long analysis of Winfrey's potential. season, & future. Today's must read. As with all things in life.. you did good yesterday, youngster, now show me you can do it again.
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@ghoolie-always-ghoolie said:
I read a good article yesterday, Fan...something or other. It expressed my feelings that ShitMyPantski is not a leader, and Mild Garrett is not a killer.
I once called Garrett a Zumba instructor. He is a physical specimens but a one dimensional player.
You were right and I remember that...
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This one opened for me maybe after a few days they become public domain?
Apparently not.
WSS
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Well this one opened up just fine for me hopefully it will for everybody else.
No real surprises; a thoughtful honest look by Cleveland's best sports writer.
WSS
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