Is Joe Woods gone yet ?
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Don't sleep on Jim Schwartz. I was a big fan of his designs when he was in Philly and he might be one of the most creative NFL coaches in generating pressures with only a 4 man rush.
Don't sleep on Jim Schwartz. I was a big fan of his designs when he was in Philly and he might be one of the most creative NFL coaches in generating pressures with only a 4 man rush.
If the Browns could find three other players besides Myles that can generate a pass rush, sign me up!
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Don't sleep on Jim Schwartz. I was a big fan of his designs when he was in Philly and he might be one of the most creative NFL coaches in generating pressures with only a 4 man rush.
Don't sleep on Jim Schwartz. I was a big fan of his designs when he was in Philly and he might be one of the most creative NFL coaches in generating pressures with only a 4 man rush.
I'd say Jim does fits this FO..
hope he's interviewed https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/01/browns-request-dc-interviews-with-brian-flores-jim-schwartz-jerod-mayo-sean-desai#comments 2 years & a quality defensive coaching *staff hired .. advantage Schwartz
from espn..
While DC at Philly
Analytics are being deployed on the defensive side of the ball as well. Defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz might come off as an old-school football guy, but he studied econometrics -- the application of statistical and mathematical techniques in solving problems -- at Georgetown, and is known to be very much data-driven in his approach to the job.
He passes his statistical findings on to his players, and demands they be able to recall it at a moment's notice.
At Titans..
https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tennessee-titans-nfl-jim-schwartz-analytics-history
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Don't sleep on Jim Schwartz. I was a big fan of his designs when he was in Philly and he might be one of the most creative NFL coaches in generating pressures with only a 4 man rush.
I'd say Jim does fits this FO..
hope he's interviewed https://www.profootballrumors.com/2023/01/browns-request-dc-interviews-with-brian-flores-jim-schwartz-jerod-mayo-sean-desai#comments 2 years & a quality defensive coaching *staff hired .. advantage Schwartz
from espn..
While DC at Philly
Analytics are being deployed on the defensive side of the ball as well. Defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz might come off as an old-school football guy, but he studied econometrics -- the application of statistical and mathematical techniques in solving problems -- at Georgetown, and is known to be very much data-driven in his approach to the job.
He passes his statistical findings on to his players, and demands they be able to recall it at a moment's notice.
At Titans..
https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tennessee-titans-nfl-jim-schwartz-analytics-history
I'd say Jim does fits this FO.. hope he's interviewed
from espn..
While DC at Philly
Analytics are being deployed on the defensive side of the ball as well. Defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz might come off as an old-school football guy, but he studied econometrics -- the application of statistical and mathematical techniques in solving problems -- at Georgetown, and is known to be very much data-driven in his approach to the job.
He passes his statistical findings on to his players, and demands they be able to recall it at a moment's notice.
At Titans..
https://www.si.com/nfl/titans/news/tennessee-titans-nfl-jim-schwartz-analytics-history
There's that, but his defensive structures also play into recent NFL trends that have shown teams reducing their blitz rates. Not just against certain offenses, but league wide in general. So his penchant for rush creativity tends to fit hand in hand with that data.
Like Gregg Williams though, Schwartz is a big believer in man coverage IIRC and was at times, just like Williams, almost far too rigid in his calls for downs/distances. So It'll be fun if he's hired, checking back on this board this time next year seeing the same posters bitch about his style of coaching vis a vis Woods'. Almost sort of hoping that happens.
Either way, any new DC will place renewed emphasis on the DL. That's the main take away from this.
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He is.
Kevin Stefansky moves to the head of the scapegoat line
WSS
He is.
Kevin Stefansky moves to the head of the scapegoat line
WSS
However, IMO he's going to at least get the majority of next season to try and prove the Browns brain trust (oxymoron?) didn't make a huge mistake bringing Watson on board. It's playoffs or bust Kev, fail- and you're going to be looking for employment elsewhere, just like Joe.
Sure, you can never tell ahead of time which teams are going to rise from the ashes, BUT... losing to the Steelers got the Browns a 2023 last place schedule, playing the likes of the Bears, Cardinals, Rams, Broncos, and Colts. (I may put the Denver game on my road trip schedule, and Indy is a 100 mile shorter drive for me than Cleveland)
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Browns defensive players want a simplified approach in next defensive coordinator
Browns defensive players want a simplified approach in next defensive coordinator
I heard that on the radio today. It's a fine line, right? You want the DC (any coordinator) to be creative, but too creative and you'll have guys blowing assignments. You don't want your coverage people constantly trying to think about what they should be doing. It's got to be simple enough so they know their deal and they just react to the play as it unfolds. They're on your team because of their ability to do those things, not to be solving geometry quizzes out there.
We have an OC as HC. Our DC will in fact be the HC of the D. I'd like a DC that can tailor his defensive style/system to the players that he has. Not someone showing up with a piece of wood with a bunch of square holes in it. Like, say, a guy likes to be aggressive with blitzes. That's fine, but you better have guys that can actually get to the QB. Going back a few years I remember ballpeen's line, 'Us blitzing is like taking 1 or 2 of our guys and running them off the field'. Quite funny, but the reality was our blitzers would just be consumed by the opponent's OL.
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No it was the secondary years ago…the LBs the second year…the IDL this past year. Nevermind he had 7 of the 8 top picks the past three years invested in defensive players. We apparently didn’t give him enough.
Joe Woods was not a good Defensive Coordinator.
But if the Browns trot out the caliber of DLine again next year, good luck to whoever lands the gig.
Joe Woods was not a good Defensive Coordinator.
But if the Browns trot out the caliber of DLine again next year, good luck to whoever lands the gig.
I think the job overall is appealing. You have three CBs that can play pretty dang good man coverage: Ward, Newsome, Emerson. We hope the next guy doesn’t sit in zone coverage repeatedly on 3rd and long and pray that Myles gets to the QB.
But You have a centerpiece at DE that teams need to account for every play and a playmaking backer that I hope the next guy can utilize better.
If can convince John Johnson to play and live up to the contract and continue to develop Delpit or scheme him into something that plays into his strengths. You can certainly work with this group.
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 1a and 1b.
I
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Joe Woods was not a good Defensive Coordinator.
But if the Browns trot out the caliber of DLine again next year, good luck to whoever lands the gig.
I think the job overall is appealing. You have three CBs that can play pretty dang good man coverage: Ward, Newsome, Emerson. We hope the next guy doesn’t sit in zone coverage repeatedly on 3rd and long and pray that Myles gets to the QB.
But You have a centerpiece at DE that teams need to account for every play and a playmaking backer that I hope the next guy can utilize better.
If can convince John Johnson to play and live up to the contract and continue to develop Delpit or scheme him into something that plays into his strengths. You can certainly work with this group.
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 1a and 1b.
I
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 2a and 2b.
ahem. FIFY
good luck with thinking 1a and 1b when the browns don't have a first round draft pick for three years.
But, there is the second round....................
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We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 2a and 2b.
ahem. FIFY
good luck with thinking 1a and 1b when the browns don't have a first round draft pick for three years.
But, there is the second round....................
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Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Our Front Office found players like Emerson and JOK in that area.
Absolutely true. and Greedy Williams and Austin Corbett.... Schwartz in the third round, I think.
and Wills - who I wonder if he was playing hurt a lot this season....
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Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
Eh, I’m not so sure about “no linebackers”. If they resign walker, youd have JOK, walker, and Deion jones who played above average in my opinion. While there’s for sure room to upgrade, the defensive line made the backer core look like more of a liability than it could be. You’re going to whiff more often when running backs don’t get touched till your level.
it could be worse, but there’s plenty of talent to make this position attractive to come to Cleveland. Especially if there’s a nudge/ wink understanding that Stef’s job could be yours if he waffles again this year, which I’m totally fine with. -
Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
I beg to differ.
you have a future HOF DE- entering his prime years. The position and talent doesn’t grow on trees. I don’t think he’s much of leader but the talent and that chess piece is very attractive.
And Take a look around the league and see if other teams have 3 DBs that you can put on an island. Ask Tom Brady what he thinks of our corners.
What is maddening to me is there is really good football talk on here…but too many of you expect a perfect roster when salary cap and injuries and pursuit of a franchise QB can stand in the way. And I’m assuming we are adding talent at all three levels in the middle of our defense too.
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Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
I beg to differ.
you have a future HOF DE- entering his prime years. The position and talent doesn’t grow on trees. I don’t think he’s much of leader but the talent and that chess piece is very attractive.
And Take a look around the league and see if other teams have 3 DBs that you can put on an island. Ask Tom Brady what he thinks of our corners.
What is maddening to me is there is really good football talk on here…but too many of you expect a perfect roster when salary cap and injuries and pursuit of a franchise QB can stand in the way. And I’m assuming we are adding talent at all three levels in the middle of our defense too.
Have to agree with @jrb12711 here. With Fields, JOK and Walker, LB is a decently manned position. Heck, even Takitaki was serviceable for depth while on his rookie contract. The problem is that these guys are injured more often than not. Something all too common for other position groups too, as was mentioned.
On at DT Winfrey showed promise, as he got more minutes this season. Would like to see him get a chance as one of the building blocks. Adding a more experienced guy like Ogunjobi would be good, although I doubt we can get him at a rate that is cap-friendly enough. Would definitely like to see our second rounder spent on this position, and probably another late rounder for depth though.
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Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
I beg to differ.
you have a future HOF DE- entering his prime years. The position and talent doesn’t grow on trees. I don’t think he’s much of leader but the talent and that chess piece is very attractive.
And Take a look around the league and see if other teams have 3 DBs that you can put on an island. Ask Tom Brady what he thinks of our corners.
What is maddening to me is there is really good football talk on here…but too many of you expect a perfect roster when salary cap and injuries and pursuit of a franchise QB can stand in the way. And I’m assuming we are adding talent at all three levels in the middle of our defense too.
I beg to differ.
you have a future HOF DE- entering his prime years. The position and talent doesn’t grow on trees. I don’t think he’s much of leader but the talent and that chess piece is very attractive.
I said we have one pass rusher, so I won’t comment further on this.
And Take a look around the league and see if other teams have 3 DBs that you can put on an island. Ask Tom Brady what he thinks of our corners.
Sure and we can ask Flacco, Tua, and some guy named Zappe what they think of our corners.
And while we’re at it, we can inquire about those RB’s on the Falcons & Chargers that had career days against the D.
What is maddening to me is there is really good football talk on here…but too many of you expect a perfect roster when salary cap and injuries and pursuit of a franchise QB can stand in the way.
Perfect roster? When you look at the draft capital and cash spent on the defense, I don’t know where your standards are but I certainly expect a hell of a lot better.
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Joe Woods was not a good Defensive Coordinator.
But if the Browns trot out the caliber of DLine again next year, good luck to whoever lands the gig.
I think the job overall is appealing. You have three CBs that can play pretty dang good man coverage: Ward, Newsome, Emerson. We hope the next guy doesn’t sit in zone coverage repeatedly on 3rd and long and pray that Myles gets to the QB.
But You have a centerpiece at DE that teams need to account for every play and a playmaking backer that I hope the next guy can utilize better.
If can convince John Johnson to play and live up to the contract and continue to develop Delpit or scheme him into something that plays into his strengths. You can certainly work with this group.
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 1a and 1b.
I
I think the job overall is appealing. You have three CBs that can play pretty dang good man coverage: Ward, Newsome, Emerson. We hope the next guy doesn’t sit in zone coverage repeatedly on 3rd and long and pray that Myles gets to the QB.
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 1a and 1b.
Did you like the move of Newsome playing as our slot/nickle corner? I still think he's stronger suited to stay outside as CB2? @tiamat63
Newsome went inside to replace Troy Hill.. We might see Berry draft/add a true slot Corner? But not before a Safety
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
I'd prefer to not let your two lead-off hitters walk out the building...
Sources: The Browns will interview Tennessee's Jim Schwartz tomorrow,(Wednesday) andPittsburgh's Brian Flores on Thursday for their defensive coordinator job, per sources.(Cleveland still working out timing with NE's Jerod Mayo and Seattle's Sean Desai.)8:32 PM · Jan 10, 2023
Albert Breer@AlbertBreerSources: The Browns will interview Tennessee's Jim Schwartz tomorrow, and Pittsburgh's Brian Flores on Thursday for their defensive coordinator job, per sources.
(Cleveland still working out timing with NE's Jerod Mayo and Seattle's Sean Desai.)Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
I think the job overall is appealing. You have three CBs that can play pretty dang good man coverage: Ward, Newsome, Emerson. We hope the next guy doesn’t sit in zone coverage repeatedly on 3rd and long and pray that Myles gets to the QB.
We need a MIKE and an IDL. These are priority 1a and 1b.
Did you like the move of Newsome playing as our slot/nickle corner? I still think he's stronger suited to stay outside as CB2? @tiamat63
Newsome went inside to replace Troy Hill.. We might see Berry draft/add a true slot Corner? But not before a Safety
Did you like the move of Newsome playing as our slot/nickle corner? I still think he's stronger suited to stay outside as CB2? @tiamat63
Newsome went inside to replace Troy Hill.. We might see Berry draft/add a true slot Corner? But not before a Safety
This might just be a bit of a viewing and experience type bias, but I remember Newsie getting beat across his face to the inside quite a bit. He was drafted in a similar mold to Emerson, to be that tall(er) type corner with wingspan who could be physical at the line. It's why I advocated for Ward to take some slot snaps at times. The whole "we paid him to play #1 outside" notion be damned. Chris Harris is proof of what an elite, high paid nickel can bring to the table. And if the offenses' game plan dictates structure to involve that slot as a primary, then I want to use my best weapon to take that away.
Which reminds me... I wonder how Damarri Mathis did this season?
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Joe Woods shold have been fired long ago. How do you have multiple blown coverages in one season that result in touchdowns?
No it was the secondary years ago…the LBs the second year…the IDL this past year. Nevermind he had 7 of the 8 top picks the past three years invested in defensive players. We apparently didn’t give him enough.
No it was the secondary years ago…the LBs the second year…the IDL this past year. Nevermind he had 7 of the 8 top picks the past three years invested in defensive players. We apparently didn’t give him enough.
They didn't have anyone to replace him with in the Defensive staff which is why he was fired pretty much after the final whistle on Sunday.
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Not an attractive landing spot for a DC to walk into.
No LB’s, no DT’s, with just 1 pass rusher.
There’s an over the hill SS that blows coverage on a consistent basis, along with the CB’s that are constantly injured.
I mean…who wouldn’t want that?
I beg to differ.
you have a future HOF DE- entering his prime years. The position and talent doesn’t grow on trees. I don’t think he’s much of leader but the talent and that chess piece is very attractive.
And Take a look around the league and see if other teams have 3 DBs that you can put on an island. Ask Tom Brady what he thinks of our corners.
What is maddening to me is there is really good football talk on here…but too many of you expect a perfect roster when salary cap and injuries and pursuit of a franchise QB can stand in the way. And I’m assuming we are adding talent at all three levels in the middle of our defense too.
Have to agree with @jrb12711 here. With Fields, JOK and Walker, LB is a decently manned position. Heck, even Takitaki was serviceable for depth while on his rookie contract. The problem is that these guys are injured more often than not. Something all too common for other position groups too, as was mentioned.
On at DT Winfrey showed promise, as he got more minutes this season. Would like to see him get a chance as one of the building blocks. Adding a more experienced guy like Ogunjobi would be good, although I doubt we can get him at a rate that is cap-friendly enough. Would definitely like to see our second rounder spent on this position, and probably another late rounder for depth though.
Would definitely like to see our second rounder spent on this position, and probably another late rounder for depth though.
A couple things.
1st) A lot of the injury concern at our linebacker spots is a two fold problem. Lack of size + too much direct contact. You can't have 215LB backers taking on clean leads and guards 17 games without health problems. I was a broken record at week 6, at this point the beaten and dead horse has decayed into a skeleton. My dad and my grandpa were excavators, earth movers, by trait. That was their family business and I grew up around it. Can't begin to tell you how many times as a kid I'd listen to them talk to people who were building a home that were more versed and focused on the furniture they were going to buy, as opposed to the foundation said home was built on.
It wasn't sexy, it wasn't what they cared for. To them, it was all just the same dull dirt. Only I knew (know) that the wrong foundation means you'd be calling by Dad and Grandpa back in 10 years if it wasn't handled correctly. I parallel that with the state of how the Browns front office has let this IDL decay over the past 2 seasons. Anything directly over the ball, IOL, IDL and QB, has a ripple effect on every other level of the offense/defense. While they worked to address the secondary and QB spots, the balance of talent along the defensive line swung so far in the opposite direction that you've now fucked your team in a whole new manner.
2nd) This was by no means a shock to myself, but I'm hoping my story on foundation, plus this next bit of information, puts things into proper perspective for a good amount of the posters here on just how dire the Browns defensive line state is.
With the exception of Zach Carter for the Bengals... every single 2nd and 3rd string IDL in the AFCN had a higher season grade than the Browns starters.
That's not a typo. Every single backup player, except one, played better than the Browns IDL starters for the 2022 season. I checked every single players grade over 2 different grading services myself, the numbers are accurate.
If the Browns bring in Schwartz or Flores, I admit it's an upgrade over Woods from a coaching perspective. However if there isn't significant resources invested into the defensive line... multiple draft picks and somehow god willing, a cheap and effective vet in FA, then we'll be right back where we were next season asking our offense to win shootouts, not getting our pass rushers more snaps to attack the QB, and exposing our secondary in ways that is unnecessary week in and week out.
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Would definitely like to see our second rounder spent on this position, and probably another late rounder for depth though.
A couple things.
1st) A lot of the injury concern at our linebacker spots is a two fold problem. Lack of size + too much direct contact. You can't have 215LB backers taking on clean leads and guards 17 games without health problems. I was a broken record at week 6, at this point the beaten and dead horse has decayed into a skeleton. My dad and my grandpa were excavators, earth movers, by trait. That was their family business and I grew up around it. Can't begin to tell you how many times as a kid I'd listen to them talk to people who were building a home that were more versed and focused on the furniture they were going to buy, as opposed to the foundation said home was built on.
It wasn't sexy, it wasn't what they cared for. To them, it was all just the same dull dirt. Only I knew (know) that the wrong foundation means you'd be calling by Dad and Grandpa back in 10 years if it wasn't handled correctly. I parallel that with the state of how the Browns front office has let this IDL decay over the past 2 seasons. Anything directly over the ball, IOL, IDL and QB, has a ripple effect on every other level of the offense/defense. While they worked to address the secondary and QB spots, the balance of talent along the defensive line swung so far in the opposite direction that you've now fucked your team in a whole new manner.
2nd) This was by no means a shock to myself, but I'm hoping my story on foundation, plus this next bit of information, puts things into proper perspective for a good amount of the posters here on just how dire the Browns defensive line state is.
With the exception of Zach Carter for the Bengals... every single 2nd and 3rd string IDL in the AFCN had a higher season grade than the Browns starters.
That's not a typo. Every single backup player, except one, played better than the Browns IDL starters for the 2022 season. I checked every single players grade over 2 different grading services myself, the numbers are accurate.
If the Browns bring in Schwartz or Flores, I admit it's an upgrade over Woods from a coaching perspective. However if there isn't significant resources invested into the defensive line... multiple draft picks and somehow god willing, a cheap and effective vet in FA, then we'll be right back where we were next season asking our offense to win shootouts, not getting our pass rushers more snaps to attack the QB, and exposing our secondary in ways that is unnecessary week in and week out.
If the Browns bring in Schwartz or Flores, I admit it's an upgrade over Woods from a coaching perspective. However if there isn't significant resources invested into the defensive line... multiple draft picks and somehow god willing, a cheap and effective vet in FA, then we'll be right back where we were next season asking our offense to win shootouts, not getting our pass rushers more snaps to attack the QB, and exposing our secondary in ways that is unnecessary week in and week out.
Yes.
The Browns have to invest heavily on the DLine this offseason, including bringing in a legit, longterm DE to pair with Myles.
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