Mayfield
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It's often a misconception that Baker won more games in 2021 than the Browns won this year in 2022.
Baker was 6-8 in 2021. Case Keenum went undefeated at 2-0 that made up the other 2 wins, I call it "The Baker Effect" - where you are better without Baker than you are with him. Further evidence - Baker was 1-5 with the Panthers this year, then the Panthers cut Baker and they go 6-5 without him...."The Baker Effect".
Baker had a star receiver in Odell Beckham Jr. last year in 2021 - yes Odell was great - unfortunately he had a backup caliber QB in Baker throwing him the ball. After Odell got traded to the Rams with a competent Matt Stafford throwing him the ball, Odell caught 5 TD passes in 7 games started at the end of the regular season. In the playoffs, Odell would go on to have 21 catches, 288 yards, and 2 TD's - including a huge TD in the Super Bowl to help win a Super Bowl for the Rams.
When you look across the rosters in the NFL, there's really not many places that would want Baker Mayfield. Let's look at QB needy teams: the Colts - they thought a washed up Matt Ryan was better than Baker, Falcons - passed on him this year and have Ridder, Saints - passed on him this year and reports said they don't want him, Jets - probably rolling with Mike White, Raiders - probably rolling with Stidham, Texans - probably going QB at #2 overall and any of the other teams listed here could draft a QB.
Baker has to accept the fact that he is a backup caliber QB - don't get me wrong, he'll be one of the top 3-5 backups in the league. I can only see a team bringing him in with the promise of being the starter to push a rookie QB to compete hard in training camp - then Baker starts a few games at the beginning of the season with the rookie taking over eventually. But Baker is such a cancer, a horrible teammate, and a nonstop headache that I couldn't imagine a team thinking he's the answer as the starter unless they are in tank mode.
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It's going to be very interesting to see what NFL team desperate for a franchise QB wins the Baker Mayfield sweepstakes with what will, obviously, be an enormous free agent contract offer.
Rarely does a QB of Baker's immense skill-set during his prime become a free agent. Teams have to be salivating, just counting down the minutes until they can try and sign him.
It's going to be very interesting to see what NFL team desperate for a franchise QB wins the Baker Mayfield sweepstakes with what will, obviously, be an enormous free agent contract offer.
Rarely does a QB of Baker's immense skill-set during his prime become a free agent. Teams have to be salivating, just counting down the minutes until they can try and sign him.
If that's all they want - they can just draft the little feller from Georgia (Stetson Bennett IV) that won a National Championship with many of the same beneficiaries Baker enjoyed in the Big 12. Every time Oklahoma played in their conference - none of their opponents could contest the receiving routes (much like we saw last night in the National Championship Game). As much as the media and Georgia football fans adore Bennett's walk-on story - would he have had the same success at Vanderbilt? And why not? His limitations require a utopian setting like the margin of error the Georgia Defense gives him every game (except vrs Ohio State whose defense no longer gives their QBs a margin of error). Even better? Check out how many of his teammates (the starters) will go in the top 2 rounds of the draft when they come out. My guess is many of them will get drafted before Bennett will (but I could be wrong). All that said, in Georgia's program - the lad aced the challenge by earning the starting job before enjoying Easy Street! I have my doubts that he could go to a team with the type of shabby pass pro and perimeter talent that Justin Fields went to and do any better. That's the type of potential culture shock some top QB talents are headed for in this draft.
I'm not as worried about Watson as I am about Depodesta running this team into the ground and 6 feet under. If anyone watched just how far removed the Offensive Coordination is from the cold weather climate/winds off the lake - they easily GET this team is in the wrong hands. The problem is our Owner adores Depodesta; and this is why the Browns are in last place. Even if they got the right QB, they'll destroy the guy.
This FO doesn't excite me at all. They're gonna fire guys which is totally fine if they hire upgrades. Do they ever do that though? Ever? Then again, are they ever allowed to do their jobs? If anyone has watched the Georgia Bulldogs win 2 consecutive National Championships - their OC was our OC in 2019 when Freddie Kitchens refused to let him call the plays and/or coordinate the offense under the rule of Paul Depodesta. So, even if we hire the right people - can they succeed under Depodesta's handcuffs? We're getting what Haslam paid for - LAST PLACE. That's our progress since 2019 here in 2023.
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oh, shove it. That certain poster does not have any kind of "selective morality". That is just a pitiful childish excuse to bash someone you disagree with. Furthermore, that poster simply disagrees with the obsessive baker hating/bashing. Like whatshisname said - YOU and your clique can bash and run down baker all you want. But defending baker with facts - why, they aren't allowed to defend him because he isn't here anymore.
That sounds so stupid, it's far worse when I just typed it. I never held a judgement against ray rice or hunt, because they apologized, and turned their lives around genuinely. OTH, rothlicksbooger and watson - never apologized, never admitted, changed the subject, and lied, it seems. but watson had 66? women come forward. Why that many? watsons flimsy rationalization on it, and lies about it..... that is actually being consistent when you diss both. It doesn't matter which team, it matters morally.
My apologies Steve, I tried to leave politics out of it, but someone here continues to prove everything I mentioned earlier is 100% correct. You can look up the many times I've posted I think Watson is major sleaze, but unfortunately he plays for the Browns, and there's nothing I can do about it.
You're in denial Cal, seek mental help.. The other guy you love is accused of rape, cheated on every one of his wives, & paid off a porn star- for starters. Never apologised for it either. Never apologises for anything, for that matter. I could give you a litany of his other slimeball stunts, but this isn't the Political Forum.
There's no need for you to defend Baker anymore... because he doesn't play for the Browns anymore. PERIOD, end of discussion. LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU.
Really, it's weird that some members the Baker Homo Man-Crush Club can't let it go... He'd long ago have become a near zero general interest topic around here.
Keep spinning away though.
BTW, I watched the Rams- Seahawks game because I was hoping for a LA win to send the Lions into the playoffs... Your homo boy sealed the Rams fate with a terribly underthrown bomb that got intercepted... And as usual Baker couldn't do jack in the overtime when the Rams had their chance to win the game. Good old Mayfield, Mr.Anti-Clutch.
My apologies Steve, I tried to leave politics out of it
You're in denial Cal, seek mental help.. The other guy you love is accused of rape, cheated on every one of his wives, & paid off a porn star- for starters. Never apologised for it either. Never apologises for anything, for that matter. I could give you a litany of his other slimeball stunts, but this isn't the Political Forum.
Cal was a fan of Bill Clinton?
You apologizing for bringing politics to the board gives you a pass for bringing politics to the board.
My aren't you special.
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Mayfield is gone and he's likely to flounder around for awhile before leaving the nfl as a disappointing figure but not quite a bust.
Deshaun Watson stinks and this whole series of events over the last year is as brownsian as it gets.
Mayfield is gone and he's likely to flounder around for awhile before leaving the nfl as a disappointing figure but not quite a bust.
Deshaun Watson stinks and this whole series of events over the last year is as brownsian as it gets.
I initially read that as "Brownstain". Another stain on this franchise no doubt.
Watson is garbage. The issue I'm seeing is that we could have kept the type of garbage we had at a much lower cost.
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btw - Case Keenum did qb for the Browns a few times.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 Pass****************************************So, Keenum couldn't fix the Browns offense either. It all depends on the matchups. With no deep threat, the offense doesn't work well.Amari Cooper would have been magic in making 2021's offense work more efficiently. It's the same with Jamar Chase. He makes the cincy offense work.All the Browns had to do, was let Brissett keep impressing at qb, and draft a top qb in the next draft.But no - they screwed up, and the stink off the field will never go away, and the stink on the field may never go away, either. -
Dud: Entire offensive line
Mayfield was under constant duress in this game as the offensive line couldn’t hold up against the Seahawks’ defensive front. He was sacked five times by Seattle and there were several other plays where Mayfield had to escape the pocket just to avoid a sack. It didn’t help that Ty Nsekhe went down with a wrist injury, or that the line is banged up in general, but this was a particularly poor performance by the front five.
Dud: Entire offensive line
Mayfield was under constant duress in this game as the offensive line couldn’t hold up against the Seahawks’ defensive front. He was sacked five times by Seattle and there were several other plays where Mayfield had to escape the pocket just to avoid a sack. It didn’t help that Ty Nsekhe went down with a wrist injury, or that the line is banged up in general, but this was a particularly poor performance by the front five.
Keep on making excuses for poor Widdle Baker. When are you going to come to the realization what I've been saying for over a year is factual? Mayfield can only succeed when his surronding talent is perfect, and maybe not even then?
That's what I said at the beginning. Top rated prospect Notre Dame who I root for unless Ohio state or the University of Akron is playing. From Ohio grew up a Bernie Kosar fan. Distant relative Carroll County Quinns.
Pissed me off when he held out. And I publicly stated here he had to beat the steelers before I would support him again.
But it doesn't mean shit now I just mentioned it because some people say they root for whoever the Brown's quarterback is regardless of anything else.
They absolutely do not.
WSS
Yep, and Baker currently is about as relevant to the Browns as Brady Quinn is. I'll give the guy credit for his one decent year. But rapidly approaching around 7 out of 10 on the overall #1 pick in the draft bust scale. Too bad his Fan Club can't let it go.
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It's going to be very interesting to see what NFL team desperate for a franchise QB wins the Baker Mayfield sweepstakes with what will, obviously, be an enormous free agent contract offer.
Rarely does a QB of Baker's immense skill-set during his prime become a free agent. Teams have to be salivating, just counting down the minutes until they can try and sign him.
It's going to be very interesting to see what NFL team desperate for a franchise QB wins the Baker Mayfield sweepstakes with what will, obviously, be an enormous free agent contract offer.
Rarely does a QB of Baker's immense skill-set during his prime become a free agent. Teams have to be salivating, just counting down the minutes until they can try and sign him.
FIFY
LOL, don't you know you have to post your sarcasm in pink?
If he decides to follow it as his future career track, Baker can have a long career as an NFL backup QB, and spot starter just like our Colt McCoy- who was drafted in the third round, not #1 overall.
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btw - Case Keenum did qb for the Browns a few times.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 Pass****************************************So, Keenum couldn't fix the Browns offense either. It all depends on the matchups. With no deep threat, the offense doesn't work well.Amari Cooper would have been magic in making 2021's offense work more efficiently. It's the same with Jamar Chase. He makes the cincy offense work.All the Browns had to do, was let Brissett keep impressing at qb, and draft a top qb in the next draft.But no - they screwed up, and the stink off the field will never go away, and the stink on the field may never go away, either.btw - Case Keenum did qb for the Browns a few times.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 Pass****************************************So, Keenum couldn't fix the Browns offense either. It all depends on the matchups. With no deep threat, the offense doesn't work well.Amari Cooper would have been magic in making 2021's offense work more efficiently. It's the same with Jamar Chase. He makes the cincy offense work.All the Browns had to do, was let Brissett keep impressing at qb, and draft a top qb in the next draft.But no - they screwed up, and the stink off the field will never go away, and the stink on the field may never go away, either.So not only are you a Baker Butthurt homo, but you are a LYING piece of dog shit too. In the two games Keenum started in 2021, he went 2-0. You cherry picked a game where Keenum came in after Baker got us destroyed by the Patriots and we were losing 31-7, then you purposely (not accidentally) left out Baker's piece of the box score. So that L goes to Baker. Let's see the real box score you conveniently cropped out the first time:
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btw - Case Keenum did qb for the Browns a few times.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 Pass****************************************So, Keenum couldn't fix the Browns offense either. It all depends on the matchups. With no deep threat, the offense doesn't work well.Amari Cooper would have been magic in making 2021's offense work more efficiently. It's the same with Jamar Chase. He makes the cincy offense work.All the Browns had to do, was let Brissett keep impressing at qb, and draft a top qb in the next draft.But no - they screwed up, and the stink off the field will never go away, and the stink on the field may never go away, either.So not only are you a Baker Butthurt homo, but you are a LYING piece of dog shit too. In the two games Keenum started in 2021, he went 2-0. You cherry picked a game where Keenum came in after Baker got us destroyed by the Patriots and we were losing 31-7, then you purposely (not accidentally) left out Baker's piece of the box score. So that L goes to Baker. Let's see the real box score you conveniently cropped out the first time:
So not only are you a Baker Butthurt homo, but you are a LYING piece of dog shit too. In the two games Keenum started in 2021, he went 2-0. You cherry picked a game where Keenum came in after Baker got us destroyed by the Patriots and we were losing 31-7, then you purposely (not accidentally) left out Baker's piece of the box score. So that L goes to Baker. Let's see the real box score you conveniently cropped out the first time:
**********************************************
Wrong. Are you hoorta's alcoholic roommate or what?
Here is the LINK:
https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/cleveland-browns/results/2021
The entire rest of the forum can see that I simply cut and pasted what the game results were on the first page. Why they didn't list Baker I have no idea.
You are too stupid to have a discussion with. You come across like a maladjusted 11 year old hater.
Hoorta "hates name calling" ....haha - only if you aren't his drinking partner in boozetown.
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So not only are you a Baker Butthurt homo, but you are a LYING piece of dog shit too. In the two games Keenum started in 2021, he went 2-0. You cherry picked a game where Keenum came in after Baker got us destroyed by the Patriots and we were losing 31-7, then you purposely (not accidentally) left out Baker's piece of the box score. So that L goes to Baker. Let's see the real box score you conveniently cropped out the first time:
**********************************************
Wrong. Are you hoorta's alcoholic roommate or what?
Here is the LINK:
https://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/cleveland-browns/results/2021
The entire rest of the forum can see that I simply cut and pasted what the game results were on the first page. Why they didn't list Baker I have no idea.
You are too stupid to have a discussion with. You come across like a maladjusted 11 year old hater.
Hoorta "hates name calling" ....haha - only if you aren't his drinking partner in boozetown.
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Even using your LINK, it still shows Baker's stats for that game, see below. Admit you're a liar calfox, otherwise you will lose whatever credibility you have left on this forum.
*******************************************
Only if you also go to the box score, STUPID. wow. Do you get drunk more often than Hoorta? really? I didn't look at the box score.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 RushRec
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Even using your LINK, it still shows Baker's stats for that game, see below. Admit you're a liar calfox, otherwise you will lose whatever credibility you have left on this forum.
*******************************************
Only if you also go to the box score, STUPID. wow. Do you get drunk more often than Hoorta? really? I didn't look at the box score.
Sun 11/14 1 2 3 4 FINAL Cleveland (5-5) 7 0 0 0 7 New England (6-4) 7 17 7 14 45 RushRecThe box scores are where you go to look up stats, don't act like you don't know what a box score is - or maybe you are that dumb......I mean did you take the short bus to school? That would explain a lot.
You're just mad because I called you out for the liar that you are.
I am formally charging you in the first degree for being a moron and fucktard. You are seriously messed up in the head and you should seek professional help.
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Refresher course...
31 personnel from empty vs the Pats "base" defensive personnel.
-----------------------------------------------------
Double seam choice vs cover 3
Remember, the result of this play was Baker not throwing to either split field primary and instead scrambling damn near into a sack.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From this past Sunday.
21 personnel from empty vs PIT "base" defensive personnel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was a 38 yard catch and run.
The above two plays are almost the exact same offensive personnel, The exact same formation, going against the exact same base defensive personnel, going against the exact same Cover 3 call. Take this information for what you will.
My last post in this thread. Baker is gone. He did contribute to this team, and we should all be thankful for that. However he was also a bit of an anchor on this, or any other team he's going to be on. There is a trade-off any GM and coach is going to have with him. It doesn't make him garbage by any stretch, but it does make him a bit limited and more towards the mean of NFL QB's as opposed to the apex.
Taking on Deshaun was a franchise altering risk, there's no getting around that truth either. The only difference, is I've seen how defense coordinators have treated both Baker and Watson during their respective NFL careers. And the mutual opponents I can find, speaking in terms of how their DC's game-plan and execute against them, tends to show that those minds thought a bit... higher, of Watson's abilities than they did of Bakers. I'm 3 drives in on the Browns offense from this past Sunday and I see parts of the game plan that make sense, because there's ideas in there from the first win. Big caveat being the presence of TJ Watt. Yes, he's that much of a difference maker. There's also what amounts to, I'll call it the "run way show" where we're seeing the Odd Couple try to work. That couple being Watson and Stef.
I mentioned this before, but Stef is used to working the Keenums, Bakers, Cousins, etc etc. And his offensive structure demands that a QB must facilitate as a point guard before he acts as a two guard. Ultimately every QB should distribute like you're White Chocolate, which is the group of 3 I just listed. But there comes times when you have to drive the lane and take points for yourself until defenses roll and account for you as well. That's where you see players like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen and to a lesser extent the Herberts, Wilsons etc etc be special in the range of their arsenal.
I've also mentioned that the majority of Stefs philosophy begins from the zone stretch under center like any Shanny disciple. And now you've brought in a QB who has primarily been a player operating from the gun in vertical zone and RPO bases from Clemson to Houston. That's why I joke about the "odd couple". You're going to have a full off-season of two styles, one a bit more aggressive and QB driven, attempting to mesh with a style that is more calculated and running game/play action driven. Going back as far as Run DMC and Aerosmith combining to form a type of rap-rock, (I guess at my younger age, I'd be more apt to say like Linkin Park, RATM or Body Count) Something really great, that can be diverse, flexible and fun can come from this union. Provided Stef and Watson remember that, before anything else, they are students of the game first and foremost.
My greater attempt at this post was to rationalize things. Watson, per my expectations, has looked incredibly shaky at times. If your expectation was to believe he would come in at pro bowl form, then unfortunately that means only one of us is operating in the space of reality. And I'm sorry to say, that likely means it isn't you. Yes, Watson CAN read defenses. Above is your proof. I will say, Pittsburgh really treated this like their Superbowl. They have showed defensive alignments and looks I haven't seen from them all year, and I do mean some really cool shit that had me looking at it twice. So your young QB has to get back to the fundamental math, get up to speed, get into graduate work and become more familiar with his AFCN opponents tendencies. Because that last part, as much as anything, tends to land you division wins.
Deshaun had some misses this past sunday, and the previous one's before that. Some of them pretty bad. He also had some nice flashes that remind us of 2019 and 2020 and the level he can play at in a QB driven offense. His mental and physical speed was never going to be where we wanted it after 2 years off and a half dozen games in a new offense. Which is why this off-season, like so many before it, will be crucial. On the bright side, if Watson even goes back to 75% of what he was, combined with having Cooper, Njoku, DPJ, (god willing) Bell taking a step up and the running game provided by Chubb and (soon to be) Ford... there is personnel that make me confident that we might have a diverse and top-tier offense that values efficiency into explosion.
But there will be some painful growth from now all the way through training camp.
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Dud: Entire offensive line
Mayfield was under constant duress in this game as the offensive line couldn’t hold up against the Seahawks’ defensive front. He was sacked five times by Seattle and there were several other plays where Mayfield had to escape the pocket just to avoid a sack. It didn’t help that Ty Nsekhe went down with a wrist injury, or that the line is banged up in general, but this was a particularly poor performance by the front five.
Keep on making excuses for poor Widdle Baker. When are you going to come to the realization what I've been saying for over a year is factual? Mayfield can only succeed when his surronding talent is perfect, and maybe not even then?
That's what I said at the beginning. Top rated prospect Notre Dame who I root for unless Ohio state or the University of Akron is playing. From Ohio grew up a Bernie Kosar fan. Distant relative Carroll County Quinns.
Pissed me off when he held out. And I publicly stated here he had to beat the steelers before I would support him again.
But it doesn't mean shit now I just mentioned it because some people say they root for whoever the Brown's quarterback is regardless of anything else.
They absolutely do not.
WSS
Yep, and Baker currently is about as relevant to the Browns as Brady Quinn is. I'll give the guy credit for his one decent year. But rapidly approaching around 7 out of 10 on the overall #1 pick in the draft bust scale. Too bad his Fan Club can't let it go.
Keep on making excuses for poor Widdle Baker. When are you going to come to the realization what I've been saying for over a year is factual? Mayfield can only succeed when his surronding talent is perfect, and maybe not even then?
Yep, and Baker currently is about as relevant to the Browns as Brady Quinn is. I'll give the guy credit for his one decent year. But rapidly approaching around 7 out of 10 on the overall #1 pick in the draft bust scale. Too bad his Fan Club can't let it go.
Blow me. Now thats relevant!
?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
The box scores are where you go to look up stats, don't act like you don't know what a box score is - or maybe you are that dumb......I mean did you take the short bus to school? That would explain a lot.
You're just mad because I called you out for the liar that you are.
I am formally charging you in the first degree for being a moron and fucktard. You are seriously messed up in the head and you should seek professional help.
The box scores are where you go to look up stats, don't act like you don't know what a box score is - or maybe you are that dumb......I mean did you take the short bus to school? That would explain a lot.
You're just mad because I called you out for the liar that you are.
I am formally charging you in the first degree for being a moron and fucktard. You are seriously messed up in the head and you should seek professional help.
odd. You sounds just like hoorta. LOL
haha. won't work. stupid. bye.
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Imagine spending the twilight of your years on a message board trying to convince strangers that they should creepily love Baker Mayfield as much as you do.
What a helluva way to go.
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I don’t understand why there’s so much effort and attention on a former Browns player.
Wish him well, and let it go.
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I don’t understand why there’s so much effort and attention on a former Browns player.
Wish him well, and let it go.
I don’t understand why there’s so much effort and attention on a former Browns player.
Wish him well, and let it go.
Tell me about it Dawg!
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Refresher course...
31 personnel from empty vs the Pats "base" defensive personnel.
-----------------------------------------------------
Double seam choice vs cover 3
Remember, the result of this play was Baker not throwing to either split field primary and instead scrambling damn near into a sack.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From this past Sunday.
21 personnel from empty vs PIT "base" defensive personnel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was a 38 yard catch and run.
The above two plays are almost the exact same offensive personnel, The exact same formation, going against the exact same base defensive personnel, going against the exact same Cover 3 call. Take this information for what you will.
My last post in this thread. Baker is gone. He did contribute to this team, and we should all be thankful for that. However he was also a bit of an anchor on this, or any other team he's going to be on. There is a trade-off any GM and coach is going to have with him. It doesn't make him garbage by any stretch, but it does make him a bit limited and more towards the mean of NFL QB's as opposed to the apex.
Taking on Deshaun was a franchise altering risk, there's no getting around that truth either. The only difference, is I've seen how defense coordinators have treated both Baker and Watson during their respective NFL careers. And the mutual opponents I can find, speaking in terms of how their DC's game-plan and execute against them, tends to show that those minds thought a bit... higher, of Watson's abilities than they did of Bakers. I'm 3 drives in on the Browns offense from this past Sunday and I see parts of the game plan that make sense, because there's ideas in there from the first win. Big caveat being the presence of TJ Watt. Yes, he's that much of a difference maker. There's also what amounts to, I'll call it the "run way show" where we're seeing the Odd Couple try to work. That couple being Watson and Stef.
I mentioned this before, but Stef is used to working the Keenums, Bakers, Cousins, etc etc. And his offensive structure demands that a QB must facilitate as a point guard before he acts as a two guard. Ultimately every QB should distribute like you're White Chocolate, which is the group of 3 I just listed. But there comes times when you have to drive the lane and take points for yourself until defenses roll and account for you as well. That's where you see players like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen and to a lesser extent the Herberts, Wilsons etc etc be special in the range of their arsenal.
I've also mentioned that the majority of Stefs philosophy begins from the zone stretch under center like any Shanny disciple. And now you've brought in a QB who has primarily been a player operating from the gun in vertical zone and RPO bases from Clemson to Houston. That's why I joke about the "odd couple". You're going to have a full off-season of two styles, one a bit more aggressive and QB driven, attempting to mesh with a style that is more calculated and running game/play action driven. Going back as far as Run DMC and Aerosmith combining to form a type of rap-rock, (I guess at my younger age, I'd be more apt to say like Linkin Park, RATM or Body Count) Something really great, that can be diverse, flexible and fun can come from this union. Provided Stef and Watson remember that, before anything else, they are students of the game first and foremost.
My greater attempt at this post was to rationalize things. Watson, per my expectations, has looked incredibly shaky at times. If your expectation was to believe he would come in at pro bowl form, then unfortunately that means only one of us is operating in the space of reality. And I'm sorry to say, that likely means it isn't you. Yes, Watson CAN read defenses. Above is your proof. I will say, Pittsburgh really treated this like their Superbowl. They have showed defensive alignments and looks I haven't seen from them all year, and I do mean some really cool shit that had me looking at it twice. So your young QB has to get back to the fundamental math, get up to speed, get into graduate work and become more familiar with his AFCN opponents tendencies. Because that last part, as much as anything, tends to land you division wins.
Deshaun had some misses this past sunday, and the previous one's before that. Some of them pretty bad. He also had some nice flashes that remind us of 2019 and 2020 and the level he can play at in a QB driven offense. His mental and physical speed was never going to be where we wanted it after 2 years off and a half dozen games in a new offense. Which is why this off-season, like so many before it, will be crucial. On the bright side, if Watson even goes back to 75% of what he was, combined with having Cooper, Njoku, DPJ, (god willing) Bell taking a step up and the running game provided by Chubb and (soon to be) Ford... there is personnel that make me confident that we might have a diverse and top-tier offense that values efficiency into explosion.
But there will be some painful growth from now all the way through training camp.
Refresher course...
31 personnel from empty vs the Pats "base" defensive personnel.
-----------------------------------------------------
Double seam choice vs cover 3
Remember, the result of this play was Baker not throwing to either split field primary and instead scrambling damn near into a sack.
--------------------------------------------------------------
From this past Sunday.
21 personnel from empty vs PIT "base" defensive personnel
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was a 38 yard catch and run.
The above two plays are almost the exact same offensive personnel, The exact same formation, going against the exact same base defensive personnel, going against the exact same Cover 3 call. Take this information for what you will.
My last post in this thread. Baker is gone. He did contribute to this team, and we should all be thankful for that. However he was also a bit of an anchor on this, or any other team he's going to be on. There is a trade-off any GM and coach is going to have with him. It doesn't make him garbage by any stretch, but it does make him a bit limited and more towards the mean of NFL QB's as opposed to the apex.
Taking on Deshaun was a franchise altering risk, there's no getting around that truth either. The only difference, is I've seen how defense coordinators have treated both Baker and Watson during their respective NFL careers. And the mutual opponents I can find, speaking in terms of how their DC's game-plan and execute against them, tends to show that those minds thought a bit... higher, of Watson's abilities than they did of Bakers. I'm 3 drives in on the Browns offense from this past Sunday and I see parts of the game plan that make sense, because there's ideas in there from the first win. Big caveat being the presence of TJ Watt. Yes, he's that much of a difference maker. There's also what amounts to, I'll call it the "run way show" where we're seeing the Odd Couple try to work. That couple being Watson and Stef.
I mentioned this before, but Stef is used to working the Keenums, Bakers, Cousins, etc etc. And his offensive structure demands that a QB must facilitate as a point guard before he acts as a two guard. Ultimately every QB should distribute like you're White Chocolate, which is the group of 3 I just listed. But there comes times when you have to drive the lane and take points for yourself until defenses roll and account for you as well. That's where you see players like Mahomes, Burrow, Allen and to a lesser extent the Herberts, Wilsons etc etc be special in the range of their arsenal.
I've also mentioned that the majority of Stefs philosophy begins from the zone stretch under center like any Shanny disciple. And now you've brought in a QB who has primarily been a player operating from the gun in vertical zone and RPO bases from Clemson to Houston. That's why I joke about the "odd couple". You're going to have a full off-season of two styles, one a bit more aggressive and QB driven, attempting to mesh with a style that is more calculated and running game/play action driven. Going back as far as Run DMC and Aerosmith combining to form a type of rap-rock, (I guess at my younger age, I'd be more apt to say like Linkin Park, RATM or Body Count) Something really great, that can be diverse, flexible and fun can come from this union. Provided Stef and Watson remember that, before anything else, they are students of the game first and foremost.
My greater attempt at this post was to rationalize things. Watson, per my expectations, has looked incredibly shaky at times. If your expectation was to believe he would come in at pro bowl form, then unfortunately that means only one of us is operating in the space of reality. And I'm sorry to say, that likely means it isn't you. Yes, Watson CAN read defenses. Above is your proof. I will say, Pittsburgh really treated this like their Superbowl. They have showed defensive alignments and looks I haven't seen from them all year, and I do mean some really cool shit that had me looking at it twice. So your young QB has to get back to the fundamental math, get up to speed, get into graduate work and become more familiar with his AFCN opponents tendencies. Because that last part, as much as anything, tends to land you division wins.
Deshaun had some misses this past sunday, and the previous one's before that. Some of them pretty bad. He also had some nice flashes that remind us of 2019 and 2020 and the level he can play at in a QB driven offense. His mental and physical speed was never going to be where we wanted it after 2 years off and a half dozen games in a new offense. Which is why this off-season, like so many before it, will be crucial. On the bright side, if Watson even goes back to 75% of what he was, combined with having Cooper, Njoku, DPJ, (god willing) Bell taking a step up and the running game provided by Chubb and (soon to be) Ford... there is personnel that make me confident that we might have a diverse and top-tier offense that values efficiency into explosion.
But there will be some painful growth from now all the way through training camp.
Great write up sir. Hope you continue to do these kinds of breakdowns
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