Manning vs Manning vs Quinn
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Zombo said:
Quinn has a very capable backup with a stronger arm and a 10-win Pro Bowl season on his resume.Zombo[/b][/color]
Not to hijack my own thread, but is anyone else surprised DA wasn't even mentioned regarding the Delhomme and McNabb situations? I guess Feeley is perceived to be better despite his lack of Pro Bowls and 10-win seasons.
Not to hijack my own thread, but is anyone else surprised DA wasn't even mentioned regarding the Delhomme and McNabb situations? I guess Feeley is perceived to be better despite his lack of Pro Bowls and 10-win seasons.
hey Ocon, what you really want is for DA to be shipped outta town pronto, then your BF has less of a threat waiting on the bench to replace him..the Browns would be fools to get rid of DA now...you can make all the comparisons with other qb's ya want..it doesn't mean shit...all that means anything is the numbers in the win/lose column..Quinn reminded me a lot of Russel ,both have accuracy problems.
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He needs to improve this week. Period. We all agree.
I also agree we shouldn't move DA yet. I'm just surprised there has never been any talk of interest and inquiry. Perhaps you're right and its obvious that the Browns are still figuring things out.
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Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
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Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
That's a nice analogy ... now apply it to DA's situation without flip-flopping.
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Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
Playground, you know the NFL stands for NOT FOR LONG don't ya?I have no idea how old you are, but I am old enough to remember when the Browns were FEARED..not anymore..ever since we have come back we have pretty much sucked...if you don't believe in the not for long theory ask Chris Palmer, ask Butch Davis, ask Romeo...ask the three OCs that were fired before this season even began.
We don't have the TIME to wait for Quinn to blossom...we are a small market team, Unlike the Giants who had other stars on the team when Eli was drafted...you think Lerner has that kinda patience?It's a "what have you done for me LATELY" league...you think Mangini,who wants to keep his job,wants to walk into Randy's office and say.."Um Boss,I think Quinn needs another two years to blossom"? He'd be out of town in a heartbeat..
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Zombo..... Eli Manning sucked for 3 years before he started playing well at the very end of the season and in the playoffs when they won the superbowl.
Eli gave 48 games of suckage before he started playing well, and your going to give Quinn only 10? Tell me how that makes sense? Quinn needs a few years of IN GAME experience to play well. We cant expect him to be a superstar right away.
We have to let him learn from his mistakes for a season or two. Practice, sadly, is not the game. Completely different. Trent Edwards has been at times downright awful these past few seasons.... He was an all star last night...
Quinn WILL be good, I say play him till it clicks Whether it takes 3 games or 3 years
That's a nice analogy ... now apply it to DA's situation without flip-flopping.
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Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
Nice post. On Monday night football last year Jaws said of Quinn, "A star is born."
Whether Quinn lives up to it, I have no idea, but Jaws saw good things in Quinn.
He has Peyton Manning-like study habbits, he's already calling plays, who knows he might turn out to be a good one. I certainly hope so, the fans deserve some success from the Browns.
Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
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AdaM said:
6th round pickTrue. Most 6th round picks don't get the first round long leash. Just the way it is.
Most declining QB's don't get a second chance, especially if they're yanked for the lack of production after 8 games and then lose a QB competition the following year. DA was being figured out by defenses last year. Case in point, the Bungles games of '08.
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Here Ill give you this ultimatum Zombo.......
Quinn plays 10 more games doesnt play up to your standards and gets pulled, career backup. We draft yet another QB, take time to develop that QB, go into rebuilding, because by the time that QB is in his prime (if he even turns out to be good) Our current cast will be too old to support him, Joe Thomas will maybe be out of the league retired, Braylon Gone... etc.
Or
Quinn plays the rest of the season not completely up to your standards, then we start him again the following year, same deal, we give him one more chance and he becomes Peyton Manning and a Superbowl Winner.
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Hey Playground...you remember Vince Young don't ya? You know,the QB who beat OSU in the Shoe,the expected number 1 overall pick,the one the Houston Texans DIDN'T pick, DESPITE massive pressure from their fans.
Look at Young now...riding the pine while an aging veteran runs the team, He was given a shot,and Jeff Fisher,a coach who IMO,knows what's up benched him,despite his huge contract,because he thought,and it seems he was right,that Young couldn't win. Like Zombo says,we don't have time for "project players" and if Quinn turns out to be a project he needs yanked.
Plus with the way bq's contract is structured they wouldn't want to pay him incentive money so he can stink up the joint,just like the Titans didn't want to pay young,or the Niners didn't want to pay Alex Smith. It's a business,first and foremost.
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@danamal said:
Thats one of the few times ive seen you whiff Zombo.Not a valid option.
haha. benching an inept QB for the pro bowler is not an option, eh?
why not?
I bet Mangini and Company are kicking that idea around in their staff meeting this morning.
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Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
Peyton Manning
9/06/98 vs MIA L 15-24
Comp: 21
Attmpt:37
Rating: 56.8
9/13/98 @ NE L 6-29
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 33
Rating: 63.6
9/20/98 @ NYJ L 6-44
Comp: 20
Attmpt: 44
Rating: 45.5
9/27/98 NO L 13-19
Comp: 19
Attmpt: 32
Rating: 59.4
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 56.3
Eli Manning
9/12/04 @ PHI L 17-31
Comp: 3
Attmpt: 9
Rating: 60.4
11/21/04 ATL L 10-14
Comp: 17
Attmp: 37
Rating: 45.1
11/28/04 PHI L 6-27
Comp: 6
Attmp: 21
Rating: 16.9
12/05/04 @ WAS L 7-31
Comp: 12
Attmpt: 25
Rating: 60.9
Totals for first 4 games
10 points per game
40 total points in 4 games
4 losses
Rating: 45.8
Brady Quinn
11/06/08 DEN L 30-34
Comp: 22
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 104.3
11/17/08 @ BUF W 29-27
Comp: 14
Attmpt: 36
Rating: 55.9
11/23/08 HOU L 6-16
Comp: 8
Attmpt: 18
Rating: 21.3
09/13/08 MIN L 20-34
Comp: 21
Attmpt: 35
Rating: 74.1
Totals for first 4 games
21.5 points per game
85 total points in 4 games
1 win and 3 losses
Rating: 63.8
Point of story, even Super Bowl QB's are given a chance to get comfortable. I'm still hoping for great things from Quinn. His reputation is better leadership and less turn overs than he displayed on Sunday. The only thing for this team to do at this point is get behind him 100%.
Chin up mates, let's see how this story unfolds.
N.B. Anybody else watch JaMarcus last night? With over a year's experience, "appropriately" drafted higher than Quinn according to draft experts, and a full off season of snaps, he lays an egg with a QB rating of 45 last night. I wonder what Raider nation is saying.
So we can use comparisions to show how BQ stacks up and it is valid but when comparisons are used to show how DA stacks up with many top QBs after 27 starts those are not valid arguments?
Like many said on this board when looking at how DA compares to others, it is the smell test. And that game stunk. BQ did do a nice job in the pocket, but I can just imagine what people would have said if DA dropped the ball on a scramble throw. Things like what a Dumb Ass. He is losing us the game. He is so clumsy.
I mean BQ gets sacked 5 times and has two turnovers and I have seen some people say it was the offensive lines fault and that DA would have gotten sacked 12 times and thrown 3 interceptions. Get a grip, this is an improved OL I have seen many here say that. This is a top 5 OL I have seen that. And DA would have been sacked 12 times? When was the last time you saw DA sacked more than 3 times? He releases the ball too fast (Not always correct when doing so) to get sacked that many times.
I am not saying DA would have done better than BQ I am saying BQ did not play well that game and his rating would have been closer to 20 if the Vikings had not played prevent defense in that last possession. This is his first start this year, you can not make a huge deal about it. After 8 games you can make a judgement. But when BQ has a bad game you need to expect people to attack him. Remember the bar was set when DA was QB. There are NO excuses!!! Not the OL, Not the play calling, Not the receivers and Not this is his 4th start. Excuses were not good for DA and they are notr good for BQ.
In this game BQ sucked, that does not mean he sucks. Just means he had a bad game.
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Zombo said:
How bout he starts winning in September or it's Anderson's team in October.Zombo
I'd rather we give it to Cribbs. If Queen is that bad, we know Anderception is that bad - might as well give it to #16. Clearly Daboll wants to run, and throw short shitty shit. Josh can handle it for 2-3 months. Cribbs, Lewis & Davis/Harrison in the backfield. Vickers as 1 TE, and Heiden as the other. Have Furrey line up at WR, and spell him with MoMass.
F' the WildDawg, spread option this bitch and draft Tebow in April.
I mean, if we've already given up on the season... I'm giving up thinking before I type. Just whatever farts out of my brain is getting plastered to the interweb.
Sure, luck means a lot in football. Not having a good quarterback is bad luck. -Don Shula -
Ocon, THANK YOU for starting an intelligent thread on the QB play. Great posts all around in here, too.
Zombo: you have a good point about Quinn needing to improve but it's truly ridiculous to say "It's his third year, he has 4 games to show us he'll be great." It just doesn't work that way, and you know it.
I think it's more reasonable to say he gets 4 games to show us consistently positive results: good reads, accurate throws, no turnovers, smart audibles, etc. Those are things he supposedly excels at and those are the things we need to see him do.
And if he can do those things consistently, the results will come.
One thing we 100% agree on: it's on him. He's gotta find a way to produce, even amidst an offense seemingly in search of a gameplan.
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@danamal said:
Plus with the way bq's contract is structured they wouldn't want to pay him incentive money so he can stink up the joint,just like the Titans didn't want to pay young,or the Niners didn't want to pay Alex Smith. It's a business,first and foremost.Give me a contender and I'll pay you whatever it takes!
Thats the silliest argument ive ever heard.
:smiles indulgently:you think so?Go ask Lerner if he thinks it's silly..or Koko...what's silly is this excuse making for quinn...if you owned a small business and you hire a guy who is supposed to be a whiz kid,then he doesn't perform up to snuff,and costs your company money,plus has an incentive in his contract,that if he shows up for work 70%of the time you have to pay him a hefty bonus what would you do?Is that clear enough for ya?get it now?
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Zombo said:
How bout he starts winning in September or it's Anderson's team in October.Zombo
I'd rather we give it to Cribbs. If Queen is that bad, we know Anderception is that bad - might as well give it to #16. Clearly Daboll wants to run, and throw short shitty shit. Josh can handle it for 2-3 months. Cribbs, Lewis & Davis/Harrison in the backfield. Vickers as 1 TE, and Heiden as the other. Have Furrey line up at WR, and spell him with MoMass.
F' the WildDawg, spread option this bitch and draft Tebow in April.
I mean, if we've already given up on the season... I'm giving up thinking before I type. Just whatever farts out of my brain is getting plastered to the interweb.
I'd rather we give it to Cribbs. If Queen is that bad, we know Anderception is that bad - might as well give it to #16.
yeah, won't happen
If Quinn continues to play like shit, it'll be Anderson
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Not to hijack my own thread, but is anyone else surprised DA wasn't even mentioned regarding the Delhomme and McNabb situations? I guess Feeley is perceived to be better despite his lack of Pro Bowls and 10-win seasons.
hey Ocon, what you really want is for DA to be shipped outta town pronto, then your BF has less of a threat waiting on the bench to replace him..the Browns would be fools to get rid of DA now...you can make all the comparisons with other qb's ya want..it doesn't mean shit...all that means anything is the numbers in the win/lose column..Quinn reminded me a lot of Russel ,both have accuracy problems.
hey Ocon, what you really want is for DA to be shipped outta town pronto, then your BF has less of a threat waiting on the bench to replace him..the Browns would be fools to get rid of DA now...you can make all the comparisons with other qb's ya want..it doesn't mean shit...all that means anything is the numbers in the win/lose column..Quinn reminded me a lot of Russel ,both have accuracy problems.
It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.
I just find it interesting many of the same people who feel Quinn should produce now in a "what have you done for me lately" league want to site DA's '07 performance of yester-year as a reason to go back to him.
I do want to stick with Quinn as long as progress is seen, even it it isn't rapid progress. Not sure I have the patience for baby-steps. If he goes from two turnovers to 3-4-5 and starts that DA level of ball protection, I'm not for either, BFF or not.
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hey Ocon, what you really want is for DA to be shipped outta town pronto, then your BF has less of a threat waiting on the bench to replace him..the Browns would be fools to get rid of DA now...you can make all the comparisons with other qb's ya want..it doesn't mean shit...all that means anything is the numbers in the win/lose column..Quinn reminded me a lot of Russel ,both have accuracy problems.
It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.
I just find it interesting many of the same people who feel Quinn should produce now in a "what have you done for me lately" league want to site DA's '07 performance of yester-year as a reason to go back to him.
I do want to stick with Quinn as long as progress is seen, even it it isn't rapid progress. Not sure I have the patience for baby-steps. If he goes from two turnovers to 3-4-5 and starts that DA level of ball protection, I'm not for either, BFF or not.
It's true I don't want to go back to DA. I've made no secret about it.
I just find it interesting many of the same people who feel Quinn should produce now in a "what have you done for me lately" league want to site DA's '07 performance of yester-year as a reason to go back to him.
I do want to stick with Quinn as long as progress is seen, even it it isn't rapid progress. Not sure I have the patience for baby-steps. If he goes from two turnovers to 3-4-5 and starts that DA level of ball protection, I'm not for either, BFF or not.
DA averaged 1.25 turnovers a game (or 1.29 can't remember). Very similar to what all the other QBs in the league produce. He does not turn the ball over 2-4-5 times a game. He obviously has games where he did do that but not as many as people seem to think. BQ has averaged less than 1 turnover a game going into this season (I think around .7). He turned the ball over twice last week with a very conservative game plan. It is one game, lets see what he does for 8.
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cmac, it's not simply the amount of DA's TO's it's the TIMING of them. He repeatedly showed NO ability to understand game situations and adjust accordingly.
The guy simply only ever drives at one speed, so to speak, regardless of the traffic situation.
Sometimes he gets the team home safe and other times it's a car wreck.
That's the issue with DA.
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