Woods & Watson
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FWIW
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/05/browns-land-mazi-smith-2023-nfl-mock-draft-2/
Thanks, I hadn't seen that but I have looked at enough player rankings and done a few mocks and he should be available around our draft position. At least as things stand now. Who knows what happens over the next few months.
As much as I would like to draft a DT, I am not sure the value will be there. I don't think we should or will be going in to this draft with needs as the primary concern. Without a 1st rounder this year and next, it's really important we get a few good players a draft who can become starters or we are going to have a talent void in a few years as guys like Bitonio, Chubb, etc are riding out the string or no longer on the team
Thanks, I hadn't seen that but I have looked at enough player rankings and done a few mocks and he should be available around our draft position. At least as things stand now. Who knows what happens over the next few months.
As much as I would like to draft a DT, I am not sure the value will be there. I don't think we should or will be going in to this draft with needs as the primary concern. Without a 1st rounder this year and next, it's really important we get a few good players a draft who can become starters or we are going to have a talent void in a few years as guys like Bitonio, Chubb, etc are riding out the string or no longer on the team
Best player available is apparently a key part of the approach of this FO. Drafting JOK in spite of their general disdain of LBs would support that. Drafting Jed and reaching for Newsome could make one second guess.
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately. But we definitely need a quality injection in our IDL, and depth across many position groups. Being down to third and fourth stringers due to injuries in our O-line and LBs comes to mind. Speaking of which, we could probably do with improvements in the area of sports medicine and physical therapy to prevent or recover faster from injuries.
Basically, we damn near need it all. Yikes!
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Thanks, I hadn't seen that but I have looked at enough player rankings and done a few mocks and he should be available around our draft position. At least as things stand now. Who knows what happens over the next few months.
As much as I would like to draft a DT, I am not sure the value will be there. I don't think we should or will be going in to this draft with needs as the primary concern. Without a 1st rounder this year and next, it's really important we get a few good players a draft who can become starters or we are going to have a talent void in a few years as guys like Bitonio, Chubb, etc are riding out the string or no longer on the team
Best player available is apparently a key part of the approach of this FO. Drafting JOK in spite of their general disdain of LBs would support that. Drafting Jed and reaching for Newsome could make one second guess.
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately. But we definitely need a quality injection in our IDL, and depth across many position groups. Being down to third and fourth stringers due to injuries in our O-line and LBs comes to mind. Speaking of which, we could probably do with improvements in the area of sports medicine and physical therapy to prevent or recover faster from injuries.
Basically, we damn near need it all. Yikes!
Best player available is apparently a key part of the approach of this FO. Drafting JOK in spite of their general disdain of LBs would support that. Drafting Jed and reaching for Newsome could make one second guess.
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately. But we definitely need a quality injection in our IDL, and depth across many position groups. Being down to third and fourth stringers due to injuries in our O-line and LBs comes to mind. Speaking of which, we could probably do with improvements in the area of sports medicine and physical therapy to prevent or recover faster from injuries.
Basically, we damn near need it all. Yikes!
It's not that bad. DT is the only position we are what i would call lacking....maybe backer to a degree.
I think we can cover DT in free agency. We don't need the superstar DT, we just need good. You can find those players. Now with Schwartz on board, maybe he can give a little guidance on what we need to look for.
I think we have been looking for players who have Aaron Donald measurables, and that is all well and good, but it doesn't work that way at grunt positions. Those guys need to have the "grunt" so to speak and i don't think that can be measured.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Thanks, I hadn't seen that but I have looked at enough player rankings and done a few mocks and he should be available around our draft position. At least as things stand now. Who knows what happens over the next few months.
As much as I would like to draft a DT, I am not sure the value will be there. I don't think we should or will be going in to this draft with needs as the primary concern. Without a 1st rounder this year and next, it's really important we get a few good players a draft who can become starters or we are going to have a talent void in a few years as guys like Bitonio, Chubb, etc are riding out the string or no longer on the team
Best player available is apparently a key part of the approach of this FO. Drafting JOK in spite of their general disdain of LBs would support that. Drafting Jed and reaching for Newsome could make one second guess.
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately. But we definitely need a quality injection in our IDL, and depth across many position groups. Being down to third and fourth stringers due to injuries in our O-line and LBs comes to mind. Speaking of which, we could probably do with improvements in the area of sports medicine and physical therapy to prevent or recover faster from injuries.
Basically, we damn near need it all. Yikes!
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately.
And they thought they had done that at DT. They guys they drafted didn't start immediately. This past season was their season to be starters. And since that failed it's back to the drawing board on that position.
I saw a Yahoo headline today (didn't read the article) that the Browns receiving corps were among the leagues slowest units. I'm assuming that includes Schwartz. So that's certainly gotta be high on the list. We've invested a quarter billion dollars and 3 first round picks on the passer. You can bet that Haslem & DePo have told Berry that that passer better have the receiving talent he needs to be successful.
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We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately.
And they thought they had done that at DT. They guys they drafted didn't start immediately. This past season was their season to be starters. And since that failed it's back to the drawing board on that position.
I saw a Yahoo headline today (didn't read the article) that the Browns receiving corps were among the leagues slowest units. I'm assuming that includes Schwartz. So that's certainly gotta be high on the list. We've invested a quarter billion dollars and 3 first round picks on the passer. You can bet that Haslem & DePo have told Berry that that passer better have the receiving talent he needs to be successful.
And they thought they had done that at DT. They guys they drafted didn't start immediately. This past season was their season to be starters. And since that failed it's back to the drawing board on that position.
I saw a Yahoo headline today (didn't read the article) that the Browns receiving corps were among the leagues slowest units. I'm assuming that includes Schwartz. So that's certainly gotta be high on the list. We've invested a quarter billion dollars and 3 first round picks on the passer. You can bet that Haslem & DePo have told Berry that that passer better have the receiving talent he needs to be successful.
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
And they thought they had done that at DT. They guys they drafted didn't start immediately. This past season was their season to be starters. And since that failed it's back to the drawing board on that position.
I saw a Yahoo headline today (didn't read the article) that the Browns receiving corps were among the leagues slowest units. I'm assuming that includes Schwartz. So that's certainly gotta be high on the list. We've invested a quarter billion dollars and 3 first round picks on the passer. You can bet that Haslem & DePo have told Berry that that passer better have the receiving talent he needs to be successful.
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
If there's any Nurse Ratched clones out there - I think the Browns should be innovative and get her on the staff. I think poor Cheswick is still waiting for his cigarettes. Anyway, Winfrey now has some experience behind him so we should see some improvements via that as well as what Schwartz can tap.
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Best player available is apparently a key part of the approach of this FO. Drafting JOK in spite of their general disdain of LBs would support that. Drafting Jed and reaching for Newsome could make one second guess.
We definitely need longer term starters as you say, even if they do not start immediately. But we definitely need a quality injection in our IDL, and depth across many position groups. Being down to third and fourth stringers due to injuries in our O-line and LBs comes to mind. Speaking of which, we could probably do with improvements in the area of sports medicine and physical therapy to prevent or recover faster from injuries.
Basically, we damn near need it all. Yikes!
It's not that bad. DT is the only position we are what i would call lacking....maybe backer to a degree.
I think we can cover DT in free agency. We don't need the superstar DT, we just need good. You can find those players. Now with Schwartz on board, maybe he can give a little guidance on what we need to look for.
I think we have been looking for players who have Aaron Donald measurables, and that is all well and good, but it doesn't work that way at grunt positions. Those guys need to have the "grunt" so to speak and i don't think that can be measured.
It's not that bad. DT is the only position we are what i would call lacking....maybe backer to a degree.
I think we can cover DT in free agency. We don't need the superstar DT, we just need good. You can find those players. Now with Schwartz on board, maybe he can give a little guidance on what we need to look for.
I think we have been looking for players who have Aaron Donald measurables, and that is all well and good, but it doesn't work that way at grunt positions. Those guys need to have the "grunt" so to speak and i don't think that can be measured.
Love that last line from you in bold above! I'm all in on some grunt and hunt.
The offseason before the Browns made the playoffs, I remembered worrying so much about the LBer Corps that I almost needed new shampoo. The Browns brought in FA (and former 1st round pick) DT Sheldon Richardson the year before this and he was one of the big reasons upfront/inside they were keeping the OGs off the LBers. Was he still in his prime? Not really; but he brought a wealth of experience and leadership qualities that helped get the little things out of his defensive teammates. For example, something as little "hey, y'all don't forget to get your hands up in the air when Ben is trying throw." 2 of 3 of Roethlisberger's 5 INTs in that playoff game were caused by deflected passes by our DL upfront. Those little things from our blue collar grunt really add up.
Yeah, we're not going to land an Aaron Donald in round 2 like you said; but I'll take another Bob Golic (previously drafted in the 2nd round of 1979 by NE). He ended up as a Pro Bowl player for us as a 2 gap gem at NT. He couldn't played well in a 2 gap scheme at DT as well if he needed to. Point is, with him in the middle in 1986 - the Browns had the top rated AFC Defense against the run. We got Golic as a FA in 1982 after he wasn't a keeper in NE's system (and I think he was originally drafted as a LBer). Who knows? Maybe 1 or 2 of the IDL guys that weren't emerging in Woods' system will do so in Schwartz'.
We could very well add a FA for our IDL; but they tend to cost more against the cap than a draftee via the rookie salary cap. There should be some very good prospects on our door step in round 2. I'd add round 3; but the FO luck with IDL in that round hasn't been good yet. Improving the IDL is doable; and the experience volume/expertise of Schwartz should have a strong influence in the kind of help he feels he needs inside/upfront.
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And they thought they had done that at DT. They guys they drafted didn't start immediately. This past season was their season to be starters. And since that failed it's back to the drawing board on that position.
I saw a Yahoo headline today (didn't read the article) that the Browns receiving corps were among the leagues slowest units. I'm assuming that includes Schwartz. So that's certainly gotta be high on the list. We've invested a quarter billion dollars and 3 first round picks on the passer. You can bet that Haslem & DePo have told Berry that that passer better have the receiving talent he needs to be successful.
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
I mostly agree. Winfree is still early. I think Orion was talking about a guy like Togiai. He is a fail. He just sucks.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
I mostly agree. Winfree is still early. I think Orion was talking about a guy like Togiai. He is a fail. He just sucks.
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Togiai, barring miracle physical growth or undetected roid use, is already history. He was a questionable tweener that was picked at least a round early. His work against any team that called zone to his side was tragic at best. If you can't one 1gap plug, it won't matter what defensive coordinator you play under.
Jordan Elliot is also toast, unless Schwartz thinks he can drop the 20ish pounds he put on and play 3tech.
Taven Bryan's contact won't be picked back up for round 2 either.
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I don't know that it's "failed"... I want to see these kids in Schwartz's system... I want to see how Perrion Winfrey reacts and plays in this defense ... He has a lot of growing up to do
I mostly agree. Winfree is still early. I think Orion was talking about a guy like Togiai. He is a fail. He just sucks.
I think Orion was talking about a guy like Togiai.
Yes, he and Elliott. The FO hoped that they would be ready to be starters this year. Well, it was a thought. Now to plan B. As far as Winfrey, I didn't like the way he played hardball with his contract, as if he was a first round pick, pre-cap. That rubs me the wrong way. (I know, who am I anyhow?) But he wound up in Stef's dog house too and was a healthy scratch more than a time or two. Still though, he was a rookie. So he gets more time. Plus, Tia liked him
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I am not totally out on Elliott.
The problem with him is he isn't a line anchor, and that is sort of what he has to play. I think he can be useful, but he needs to be next to a better player.
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I am not totally out on Elliott.
The problem with him is he isn't a line anchor, and that is sort of what he has to play. I think he can be useful, but he needs to be next to a better player.
I am not totally out on Elliott.
Fair. We did hear his name called a couple of times a game. He was involved in 36 tackles, 19 solo, 2 sacks.
Our leading tackler was Grant Delpit with 105. That little guy had 72 solo tackles. That's pretty good for a guy who couldn't stay healthy previously. And right behind him was John Johnson. 101 tackles, 70 solo. I'd like to know how many of those tackles were on RB's. Those two earned their pay.
Takitaki & JOK came next with 71 & 70 respectively. But we couldn't keep LB'ers off the IR list. Of course nobody wants to wear 'real' pads anymore.
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Of course nobody wants to wear 'real' pads anymore
The NFL should mandate pad specs for players. I think part of the injury problem is the speed at which the game is played.
On the topic of DT's, that is a position where you normally aren't going to hear a players name. If you take away the freaks, who are far and few between, DT is more of a position who just bodgers up the O and other people end up making the tackles.
Also, they generally don't get all that many sacks. The hope is they can collapse the pocket 4-5 feet taking away the step up area the QB might have. Generally the O has a 3 on 2 advantage up the middle in their blocking scheme.
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I think Orion was talking about a guy like Togiai.
Yes, he and Elliott. The FO hoped that they would be ready to be starters this year. Well, it was a thought. Now to plan B. As far as Winfrey, I didn't like the way he played hardball with his contract, as if he was a first round pick, pre-cap. That rubs me the wrong way. (I know, who am I anyhow?) But he wound up in Stef's dog house too and was a healthy scratch more than a time or two. Still though, he was a rookie. So he gets more time. Plus, Tia liked him
Plus, Tia liked him
I liked/like his potential. The wins we saw from him this year were mostly based on his physical gifts and intensity, not so much his technique or consistency.
I see the player he is and the player he can be. He'll make for one hell of an IDL if this coaching staff, including some renewed personal focus from Perrion himself, can find a way to reach that next level of growth.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy) which in turn earns our pass rushers more snaps to get after the QB. I believe Perrion can be a crucial player in helping this defensive front each that point. Provided he's willing to put in the work....
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
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Plus, Tia liked him
I liked/like his potential. The wins we saw from him this year were mostly based on his physical gifts and intensity, not so much his technique or consistency.
I see the player he is and the player he can be. He'll make for one hell of an IDL if this coaching staff, including some renewed personal focus from Perrion himself, can find a way to reach that next level of growth.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy) which in turn earns our pass rushers more snaps to get after the QB. I believe Perrion can be a crucial player in helping this defensive front each that point. Provided he's willing to put in the work....
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
I liked/like his potential. The wins we saw from him this year were mostly based on his physical gifts and intensity, not so much his technique or consistency.
I see the player he is and the player he can be. He'll make for one hell of an IDL if this coaching staff, including some renewed personal focus from Perrion himself, can find a way to reach that next level of growth.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy) which in turn earns our pass rushers more snaps to get after the QB. I believe Perrion can be a crucial player in helping this defensive front each that point. Provided he's willing to put in the work....
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
As I stated... Winfrey has some serious growing up to do if he intends to survive in this league... I love the kids physicality... Now we need to see it from the mental aspect....
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Plus, Tia liked him
I liked/like his potential. The wins we saw from him this year were mostly based on his physical gifts and intensity, not so much his technique or consistency.
I see the player he is and the player he can be. He'll make for one hell of an IDL if this coaching staff, including some renewed personal focus from Perrion himself, can find a way to reach that next level of growth.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy) which in turn earns our pass rushers more snaps to get after the QB. I believe Perrion can be a crucial player in helping this defensive front each that point. Provided he's willing to put in the work....
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy)
As you've mentioned, they drafted Alex Wright. He's Clowney's height with a dozen extra lbs. Clowney was quick. The other DE's weren't all that...
To expand a little: The Browns drafted 3 DLinemen last year. Two DE's (though Isaiah Thomas was a 7th rounder) and 1 DT. And then a DT in each of the previous 2 drafts. Our DL was not good last year, and sadly, with all of that effort, we're still at the drawing board.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Plus, Tia liked him
I liked/like his potential. The wins we saw from him this year were mostly based on his physical gifts and intensity, not so much his technique or consistency.
I see the player he is and the player he can be. He'll make for one hell of an IDL if this coaching staff, including some renewed personal focus from Perrion himself, can find a way to reach that next level of growth.
The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy) which in turn earns our pass rushers more snaps to get after the QB. I believe Perrion can be a crucial player in helping this defensive front each that point. Provided he's willing to put in the work....
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
That seems like a contradiction. ?
I also think the guy has a chance to be a good player. I just worry about the egg head factor.
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Edit:. And I should say, I have high hopes for Perrion because, to date, this front office has been pretty god awful at identifying and drafting Dline talent.
That seems like a contradiction. ?
I also think the guy has a chance to be a good player. I just worry about the egg head factor.
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The key to unlocking the Browns pass rush isn't investing insane money into another edge across Myles and making it perimeter heavy. Developing that interior presence that can limit the run, keep excess contact off our linebackers (keeping them healthy)
As you've mentioned, they drafted Alex Wright. He's Clowney's height with a dozen extra lbs. Clowney was quick. The other DE's weren't all that...
To expand a little: The Browns drafted 3 DLinemen last year. Two DE's (though Isaiah Thomas was a 7th rounder) and 1 DT. And then a DT in each of the previous 2 drafts. Our DL was not good last year, and sadly, with all of that effort, we're still at the drawing board.
As you've mentioned, they drafted Alex Wright. He's Clowney's height with a dozen extra lbs. Clowney was quick. The other DE's weren't all that...
To expand a little: The Browns drafted 3 DLinemen last year. Two DE's (though Isaiah Thomas was a 7th rounder) and 1 DT. And then a DT in each of the previous 2 drafts. Our DL was not good last year, and sadly, with all of that effort, we're still at the drawing board.
I believe all three flashed at times and you are talking about Picks 78, 108 and 223…year 1 you develop these guys you don’t expect Day 1 starter Level production and contributions.
I don’t think we are back to the drawing board. Back to drawing board is Myles is traded away or Deshaun isn’t the Deshaun of old come next October.
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