Someone Must Be Giving Haslam/Depodesta Bad Advice/Juju!
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He’s not a 1000 yard rusher he’s 1500 yard rusher with a moronic play caller that doesn’t feature him enough.
He averages 5 yards a carry over multiple seasons- a quick look around the league- that is “unique” I’d call him “special” definitely not someone/something you replace easily.
And he’s just a consummate professional in a day and age with spoiled talent
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I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change. it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.
It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
He’s not a 1000 yard rusher he’s 1500 yard rusher with a moronic play caller that doesn’t feature him enough.
He averages 5 yards a carry over multiple seasons- a quick look around the league- that is “unique” I’d call him “special” definitely not someone/something you replace easily.
And he’s just a consummate professional in a day and age with spoiled talent
He’s not a 1000 yard rusher he’s 1500 yard rusher with a moronic play caller that doesn’t feature him enough.
He averages 5 yards a carry over multiple seasons- a quick look around the league- that is “unique” I’d call him “special” definitely not someone/something you replace easily.
And he’s just a consummate professional in a day and age with spoiled talent
Think what you want, but Stefanski is going to get more 'moronic" in your view because we didn't pay Watson what we paid to have him hand the ball off to Nick Chubb 25-30 times a game.
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I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change. it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.
It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.
I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change. it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.
It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.
Hence, why I mentioned that most people have no idea who Philly or KC's RBs are.
That could very well be the template for the Browns future on offense.
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I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change. it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.
It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.
Hence, why I mentioned that most people have no idea who Philly or KC's RBs are.
That could very well be the template for the Browns future on offense.
Hence, why I mentioned that most people have no idea who Philly or KC's RBs are.
That could very well be the template for the Browns future on offense.
Just thinking out loud here. Even scarier - I'm owning it. Right now, KC's 7th round RB Isiah Pacheco looks like he's better than their former 1st round RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire.
In an entirely different offense, Cleveland's offense really counts on it's running game to set up everything else. Consequently, they've paid very generous contracts to Chubb and Hunt. Unfortunately, it looked like Hunt had about 30 lbs of cement in each cleat last year. That might have been why he was looking down at the ground instead of what was in front of him. IMO, he just didn't look like the same player.
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I might be wrong, but I don't think you guys account for how the O is going to change. it's not going to be what it has been the last several years.
It was too late in the season to make any real changes once Watson entered the picture, but next year is a whole new deal.
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We know that Depo wants 13 yard passes and has no use for 4 yard runs. So don't be surprised if they don't use FA to set up a WR pick at 43.
I don't know about having no use, but I agree, and it isn't just Depo. It's spreading league wide. Dutch brought up KC's backs. Philly too. Gainwell is one of the lead backs, and he is just a guy.
If you go back and look at the last several SB winners, none had what one would consider a lead back who carried the team. You might have to go back 10 years with the Bus in Seattle. Shoot, look at the Patriots. They have never had a back who simply stands out.
We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game. It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Oh, I agree that we might look to sign a DT in free agency and draft a WR. To me it makes some sense.
First, I think it is easier to find a DT who is good enough in FA over a WR who is good enough. Especially when considering price point for such players.
Next, I think it is more likely to find a rookie receiver in the 2nd round who can make an immediate impact over finding a DT in the 2nd who makes impact.
I also think everybody in Berea knows their jobs are on the line and aren't going to be willing to make their stand with a rookie DT and will rather go with some vet who is proven to some degree. We don't need a top 10% DT, we just need a solid player to see big improvements.
Now that I have said all of that, we might do the opposite. LOL
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We know that Depo wants 13 yard passes and has no use for 4 yard runs. So don't be surprised if they don't use FA to set up a WR pick at 43.
I don't know about having no use, but I agree, and it isn't just Depo. It's spreading league wide. Dutch brought up KC's backs. Philly too. Gainwell is one of the lead backs, and he is just a guy.
If you go back and look at the last several SB winners, none had what one would consider a lead back who carried the team. You might have to go back 10 years with the Bus in Seattle. Shoot, look at the Patriots. They have never had a back who simply stands out.
We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game. It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.
We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game. It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.
I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team. But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort. I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome. (along with Mack & Byner) We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.
I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!
If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I’m Not asking for a carry quota…I would like to see when we are in one score/tied games in the second half (often times last year we were just a score down) we don’t completely abandon the run game. Our play caller panics way too much in this situations.
And If we are getting 5/6 yards a carry I’d like to stick with that formula more often than not. If the other team isn’t going to take something away- make them pay the price…don’t try to get cute
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I’m Not asking for a carry quota…I would like to see when we are in one score/tied games in the second half (often times last year we were just a score down) we don’t completely abandon the run game. Our play caller panics way too much in this situations.
And If we are getting 5/6 yards a carry I’d like to stick with that formula more often than not. If the other team isn’t going to take something away- make them pay the price…don’t try to get cute
I’m Not asking for a carry quota…I would like to see when we are in one score/tied games in the second half (often times last year we were just a score down) we don’t completely abandon the run game. Our play caller panics way too much in this situations.
And If we are getting 5/6 yards a carry I’d like to stick with that formula more often than not. If the other team isn’t going to take something away- make them pay the price…don’t try to get cute
Basically saying... There's a time to be aggressive/conservative... But in the meantime.. Let's control the game with whats working...
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When we get up by 28, I am all for running the ball and killing clock.
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What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
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What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
Draft-wise I have to agree. That said, they've given new contracts to both veteran Guards in the last year or 2. They also just very generously extended Conklin's contract so that he'll finish his career in Cleveland. When healthy, he's an awesome run blocker at that RT spot. On the other hand, he's been pretty banged up the last 2 years where he missed starts and played through pain/injury when he returned. That was kind of risky. The weakest guy on the Oline is the one this FO drafted. On the defensive line, every body they drafted weren't keepers except maybe Winfrey. To get a healthy cap, this FO is going to have to start getting more picks right rather than leaning so much on FA vets all the time.
Every time we talk draft now, people are "yeah, we can just fill the DT spot with a FA or 2." Seems to me they tried to with Tavon Bryan - how'd that work? He was a 1st round draft pick that disappointed Jax so we didn't have to compete too hard to land him. Nobody wanted him except this Cleveland team that didn't value the DT position. Even worse, he costs a lot more against the salary cap than a rookie does.
I'm seeing a lot of fast twitch knee jerk from this FO. I don't get the feeling they have a plan in place. And if it's to trade the biggest scoring threat we have built the entire offense around - Welcome to another Poseiden Adventure!
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seen nothing that points to Chubb & Ford can't handle the running game duties..
here's the bigger problem/ juju/De-pu'... https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Article/Cleveland-Browns-Lead-The-League-In-Expensive-Talent-204883692/
Pocic vs. Nick Harris// Teller vs Froholdt// (I've seen a 3rd for Teller). Both equal= Bill Callahan.
Can't pay Hunt/Haeg nor JJ3 is not a 11M safety/ Can't pay LB Deion Jones 15M/ but, I'd consider keeping Ragland
Restruct whatever, but Berry needs to balance some game checks
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We need to get over this hand the ball off to a guy 25 times a game. It's just not a winning formula if winning 10-12 games a year and making deep playoff runs is the goal. Scoring fast and often is the ticket, and you don't do that by running the ball.
I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team. But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort. I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome. (along with Mack & Byner) We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.
I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!
If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?
I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team. But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort. I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome. (along with Mack & Byner) We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.
I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!
If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?
The team who is better at stopping the run.
Ok, it's just 1 game as an example, but look at Cincy @ Buffalo in the divisional round. Two really good QBs, Cincy certainly has the edge at WR there. But in the end, it was Cincy's ground attack with Mixon & Perine that enabled a 27-10 victory. Buffalo became so reliant on Allen's legs & arm they died on it. The Bills simply cannot run the ball.
I don't think the Browns are too far away from being a serious contender. Shore up that run D, nab a speedy sure handed receiver, use Chubb/Ford/Felton and they're a threat (I excluded Hunt, I think he's a goner).
Karlis Missed -
Offensive balance can be found in contrasting styles as well.
KC is a near 70/30 team.
The Eagles are one of the first teams since the 13' hawks to make the Superbowl (win in their case) to be bottom 1/3rd in the NFL in pass to run ratio. They were 2nd in the league in rush attempts last season and 1st this season.
Something I was talking about with Flugs on discord last night - I've had a couple people ask me about Jalen Hurts. And the more I watch, the more I understand his need for growth as a passer. Right now the Philly offense is perfectly tailored to a young QB. They have a great Oline, one of the best trios of skill positions in the NFL, and a quality running game which also involves Hurts ability to run as well.
The Chiefs defense did a better job in the 2nd half of the Superbowl forcing Jalen to be better with his mind and pocket mechanics. Point being, both offenses put up numbers despite one being run heavy with a competent passing game, and the other being pass heavy with a complimentary running game.
I grew up watching the old coast west coast from the late 90s with Steve young and then Hasselbeck in Seattle. Those timing offenses which then in turn focused on the running game 2nd half to wear you down.
Giving Chubb 25 carries isn't an answer. Giving him 15 isn't an answer.
Having the personnel flexibility and coaching staff who can consistently build a more fluid offensive game plan week in and out to maximize defensive exploitation is gold standard. In the modern NFL, barring having a setup like the Eagles, which is incredibly difficult to sustain over a longer period of time, having an offense that is QB driven is the way to go.
I love what Chubb has given to this team. I genuinely believe he can play for 5 more years at 16 carries a game and maintain a near historic 5+ YPC, similar to Jamaal Charles. But if this team was offered a 1st and a mid round pick for him, I'd have to think twice about that as I remove the emotional impact of being a fan.
The IOL is going nowhere. They're too valuable to Watson. The next move along the Oline is likely Jed, barring his potential improvement. And having Pocic show out the way he did, along with (hopefully) having Harris back at full health, is a great problem of talent and depth to have at the center spot. For those not keeping count, the spot that is more likely than most along the line to suffer lower body injuries in an outside zone offense.
Johnny J is gone post June 3rd designation and you can book that. I just don't see any young DBs on this roster ready to replace him at the moment. So if we're going to be weakening our backfield, then the front needs to be strengthened that much more.
I'm not freaking out about the pressing needs with WR. Coop, Njoku, DPJ, Bryant, possibly expanding a role for Felton in the horizontal passing game, and God willing another off-season for Bell who showed some nice I.Q. can make for a quality group. Beyond Kelce, the pass catches for the Chiefs aren't earth shattering. They just have a QB and an offensive design that does well distributing targets.
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What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
I don't worry about it too much. I mean what short term need might hurt the long term prospects of the draft?
I suppose if we drafted 3 DT's or 3 receivers and neglected other positions.
I think to cover their jobs they are going to do their best to get that covered in free agency. I think any GM or coach who thinks their job might be on the line would rather bet of a middle of the road vet over a untested rookie unless that rookie was some sort of all world prospect. Since we draft in the 2nd round, none of those all world guys are going to be there so I think BPA will still be a big part of who we draft.
Sure, they are bound to draft a DT and receiver, and may even stretch things a bit and bypass a few players at positions of lesser need, but I don't think it will be gross overreach. I will note that they will be using their board and not any board we can access, so it's possible we might not like some of the picks but I do believe they will stay close to the parameters and draft the guys they feel are the best(or close to) players available.
IMO there are maybe only 2-3 positions where we don't "need" players. We don't need a kicker and punter. We will just bring in some FA guys to keep those positions in check, and we probably don't need a QB.....at least as far as the draft goes, but we may if a guy we like is there in the late rounds.
I will also note that when I say need at all positions, that doesn't mean we need to replace starters. In another thread I said I don't root for players as much as I root for the team. With that in mind then that means you always have a worst player at every position group and you always have a worst player who makes the team, so my attitude is you always have someone who you need to try to replace, no matter how good they might be or how much you might like them..
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What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
What I'm concerned about is that the Browns front office is going to be in desperation mode this offseason in an attempt to make sure their jobs are secure, and will make short-term decisions that could hurt the Browns long-term.
Kind of like Butch Davis drafting Winslow and signing Jeff Garcia in a "win-now!" short-term move, instead of ever considering drafting Roethlisberger, who would have settled the QB position for nearly two decades.
I don't worry about it too much. I mean what short term need might hurt the long term prospects of the draft?
I suppose if we drafted 3 DT's or 3 receivers and neglected other positions.
I think to cover their jobs they are going to do their best to get that covered in free agency. I think any GM or coach who thinks their job might be on the line would rather bet on a middle of the road vet over a untested rookie unless that rookie was some sort of all world prospect. Since we draft in the 2nd round, none of those all world guys are going to be there so I think BPA will still be a big part of who we draft.
Sure, they are bound to draft a DT and receiver, and may even stretch things a bit and bypass a few players at positions of lesser need, but I don't think it will be gross overreach. I will note that they will be using their board and not any board we can access, so it's possible we might not like some of the picks but I do believe they will stay close to the set parameters and draft the guys they feel are the best(or close to) players available.
IMO there are maybe only 2-3 positions where we don't "need" players. We don't need a kicker and punter. We will just bring in some FA guys to keep those positions in check, and we probably don't need a QB.....at least as far as the draft goes, but we may if a guy we like is there in the late rounds.
I will also note that when I say need at all positions, that doesn't mean we need to replace starters. In another thread I said I don't root for players as much as I root for the team. With that in mind then that means you always have a worst player at every position group, and you always have a worst player who makes the team, so my attitude is you always have someone who you need to try to replace, no matter how good they might be or how much you might like them.
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I agree with every word you said in your back to back posts...but I'm singling this out because there are staunch old school posters who if not openly, then privately, want us to go back to two backs in the backfield and be a power running team. But even when we had the great Jim Brown in our backfield the '64 championship was won by Frank Ryan Gary, Collins and a good defensive effort. I think some of Cleveland's best ever offense came from Bernie Kosar, Webster Slaughter, Reggie Langhorne, Brian Brennan and Ozzie Newsome. (along with Mack & Byner) We have a good enough running attack to mimic those glory days...We just need more fire power at receiver.
I still agree with Joe Banner...Pass and rush the passer!
If the #1 running attack is playing the #1 passing attack....and all else is even....who would you make the favorite?
The team who is better at stopping the run.
Ok, it's just 1 game as an example, but look at Cincy @ Buffalo in the divisional round. Two really good QBs, Cincy certainly has the edge at WR there. But in the end, it was Cincy's ground attack with Mixon & Perine that enabled a 27-10 victory. Buffalo became so reliant on Allen's legs & arm they died on it. The Bills simply cannot run the ball.
I don't think the Browns are too far away from being a serious contender. Shore up that run D, nab a speedy sure handed receiver, use Chubb/Ford/Felton and they're a threat (I excluded Hunt, I think he's a goner).
The team who is better at stopping the run.
Ok, it's just 1 game as an example, but look at Cincy @ Buffalo in the divisional round. Two really good QBs, Cincy certainly has the edge at WR there. But in the end, it was Cincy's ground attack with Mixon & Perine that enabled a 27-10 victory. Buffalo became so reliant on Allen's legs & arm they died on it. The Bills simply cannot run the ball.
I don't think the Browns are too far away from being a serious contender. Shore up that run D, nab a speedy sure handed receiver, use Chubb/Ford/Felton and they're a threat (I excluded Hunt, I think he's a goner).
I couldn't have said it better myself. In fact, I didn't. YES, let's get this defense competing. We added the DC a lot of us are very excited about. We need that meat market inside/upfront although we don't want any meatheads. I'll bet Clowney lined up offsides more than half the kids playing youth football in Ohio. We could also use a replacement for John Johnson that Tia mentioned. Maybe a WR somewhere in the mid-late rounds.
Anyway, the time is NOW.
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