2023 Off-Season Free Agent moves/signings
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I'm dying to see what Schwartz will do with Winfrey... Provided Winfrey gets his head on straight...
Sometimes that is a big want. NFL drafts and teams are littered with former players who were never able to do that.
I agree with Tia that you can find starters in the later rounds. The problem is there is just some plain luck involved with that. Maybe right chemistry. Right coach, right city, right teammate, right scheme. If all of that isn't right from the get go, maybe that player never becomes a good starter?
As for trading up, it might not cost all that much to trade up from #42 to say 35. In the end I would rather see the Browns come away from the draft with 2 players who are actually pretty good football players over selecting 7 "guys". You can find "guys" all over the practice squads and waiver wire.
Sometimes that is a big want. NFL drafts and teams are littered with former players who were never able to do that.
I agree with Tia that you can find starters in the later rounds. The problem is there is just some plain luck involved with that. Maybe right chemistry. Right coach, right city, right teammate, right scheme. If all of that isn't right from the get go, maybe that player never becomes a good starter?
As for trading up, it might not cost all that much to trade up from #42 to say 35. In the end I would rather see the Browns come away from the draft with 2 players who are actually pretty good football players over selecting 7 "guys". You can find "guys" all over the practice squads and waiver wire.
Shittsburgh does it all the time... Lucky basturdz!
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I'm thinking we are forced to look at free agency for an IDL because this year's draft does not appear to have a starter where we are currently drafting. We'd have to trade up a lot higher in the draft to find one. And the price would be too high in terms of what we would pay in picks.
And the price would be too high in terms of what we would pay in picks.
I keep seeing reads, of a good 15-18 starters from Round 1..
Teams want to try to get up within the Top 75.. That would include us to get out & move up from the #98 pick.. I'd agree..
Free Agents.. I've again read many that say with the Clowney release & redo contracts the Browns may see 30M to work with.. (who knows?)
The FA market is a bunch of "could Happens" at this time...
Yeah ! Examples?
1) I loved to put Marcus Davenport in a wide 9 with Garrett.. but at 12M?
2.) Media hard'on's of Browns interest in DT Javon Hargrave? but at 18-20M per?
Berry might have got wiser by, paying 2 players divided by what Clowney got at 8M at Edge ?
quit dreaming media..
Now back to reality.. It takes a real cut/release list to begin a FA list.. Stay tuned (we ain't got one yet)
Silly season got a early start
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And the price would be too high in terms of what we would pay in picks.
I keep seeing reads, of a good 15-18 starters from Round 1..
Teams want to try to get up within the Top 75.. That would include us to get out & move up from the #98 pick.. I'd agree..
Free Agents.. I've again read many that say with the Clowney release & redo contracts the Browns may see 30M to work with.. (who knows?)
The FA market is a bunch of "could Happens" at this time...
Yeah ! Examples?
1) I loved to put Marcus Davenport in a wide 9 with Garrett.. but at 12M?
2.) Media hard'on's of Browns interest in DT Javon Hargrave? but at 18-20M per?
Berry might have got wiser by, paying 2 players divided by what Clowney got at 8M at Edge ?
quit dreaming media..
Now back to reality.. It takes a real cut/release list to begin a FA list.. Stay tuned (we ain't got one yet)
Silly season got a early start
2.) Media hard'on's of Browns interest in DT Javon Hargrave? but at 18-20M per?
You got that right! Reading this craziness from Schefter and, Mary Kay 'FWIW' Cabot as well.
As much as the IDL needs fixin, spending a vast part of our potential cap space on an aging veteran seems like a Hail Mary at best. Surely not!
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2.) Media hard'on's of Browns interest in DT Javon Hargrave? but at 18-20M per?
You got that right! Reading this craziness from Schefter and, Mary Kay 'FWIW' Cabot as well.
As much as the IDL needs fixin, spending a vast part of our potential cap space on an aging veteran seems like a Hail Mary at best. Surely not!
You got that right! Reading this craziness from Schefter and, Mary Kay 'FWIW' Cabot as well.
As much as the IDL needs fixin, spending a vast part of our potential cap space on an aging veteran seems like a Hail Mary at best. Surely not!
Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
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You got that right! Reading this craziness from Schefter and, Mary Kay 'FWIW' Cabot as well.
As much as the IDL needs fixin, spending a vast part of our potential cap space on an aging veteran seems like a Hail Mary at best. Surely not!
Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
DT - we all know we need at least one.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
S - Yup. Letting your starter go means you need one.
WR - Supposedly we had one of the slowest WR groups in the league. And our fast guy can't catch too well, and he gets hurt all the time.
TE - Behind Njoku we have Bryant, who does not represent John Mackie very well, and then just guys.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that. But we've got a lot of needs to try and address with 2nd and 3rd day draft picks. And everyone is expecting playoffs in 2023...or else! Right? Their jobs are on the line...and they only have so many tools in their bag for fixing things...and FA is one of those tools.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
DT - we all know we need at least one.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
S - Yup. Letting your starter go means you need one.
WR - Supposedly we had one of the slowest WR groups in the league. And our fast guy can't catch too well, and he gets hurt all the time.
TE - Behind Njoku we have Bryant, who does not represent John Mackie very well, and then just guys.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that. But we've got a lot of needs to try and address with 2nd and 3rd day draft picks. And everyone is expecting playoffs in 2023...or else! Right? Their jobs are on the line...and they only have so many tools in their bag for fixing things...and FA is one of those tools.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
Contrary to what some people think, Clowney is going to create a massive void.
No doubt the guy needs to be gone, but he was a top player. He was a A+ run defender and a pretty solid pass rusher. He may have been the best edge run defender in the league. He was one of those guys other teams had to build in to the gameplan. It's going to hurt no having him.
As for Poicic, he is gone. I hate it but I don't see another large contract on the O line. Harris will have to be the guy. I do see us looking to FA draft to get another center on board. Froholdt of a pretty good guard, but he isn't a center.
The positive is rookie centers can usually step in and play well, assuming they are decent players, and we are going to need that once Harris gets crushed by game 4.
When you watch Harris play, the guy has to exert every ounce of energy in pass pro. If a player has to give every ounce and strain on every play, something is going to give way sooner than not. I am not talking about giving 100%. I am talking max effort.
When those guys push 225lbs, the max effort happens somewhere in the 20's for most players. Harris is at max effort damn near every pass play. You just can't last if you have to play like that.
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Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
DT - we all know we need at least one.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
S - Yup. Letting your starter go means you need one.
WR - Supposedly we had one of the slowest WR groups in the league. And our fast guy can't catch too well, and he gets hurt all the time.
TE - Behind Njoku we have Bryant, who does not represent John Mackie very well, and then just guys.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that. But we've got a lot of needs to try and address with 2nd and 3rd day draft picks. And everyone is expecting playoffs in 2023...or else! Right? Their jobs are on the line...and they only have so many tools in their bag for fixing things...and FA is one of those tools.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
Multi reports.. claimed Iowa LB Jack Campbell was a ace interviewee with the football smarts to call the Mike year one ?.. Jack may get to us at #48
FA's .. I'm a fan of Germaine Pratt as our Mike LB.. He stays healthy/upright.. Need the dollar difference/separation if keeping A.Walker..
Schwartz knows Titans LB David Long.. I'd keep Denzel Perryman & Bobby Okereke has both affordable options..
Browns should know Anthony Walker's injury update/ better than any team
Browns & Buffett: Got to go fishin, Down to rock bottom again, with just a few Friends -
I agree Gun.
Discounting a few positions, I am good taking the best player available.
My personal feeling is we can discount QB, RB,CB, TE.and interior O line. Somebody really good would have to drop to us to make our 1st selection at one of those positions.
At least as things stand today, we don't really need players at those positions and we can say we need a player at the other positions. We might disagree on what positions we need more, but taking the best guy available is the prudent move.
Now, deciding on who is the best player is an entirely different issue...lol...and our opinions don't amount to much. The only player list that counts is the list the Browns formulate. All I know is some of us will like the pick, some won't. We are all working off different lists.
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Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
DT - we all know we need at least one.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
S - Yup. Letting your starter go means you need one.
WR - Supposedly we had one of the slowest WR groups in the league. And our fast guy can't catch too well, and he gets hurt all the time.
TE - Behind Njoku we have Bryant, who does not represent John Mackie very well, and then just guys.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that. But we've got a lot of needs to try and address with 2nd and 3rd day draft picks. And everyone is expecting playoffs in 2023...or else! Right? Their jobs are on the line...and they only have so many tools in their bag for fixing things...and FA is one of those tools.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that.
I'm not so sure we were set WITH Clowney last year. Just thinking about how many times he lined up offsides as a veteran was very unimpressive. Plus, he didn't always feel like playing when he could have have because this wasn't the type of FA/player that puts his team in-front of the himself.
Anyway, our first round in 2022 was round 3 and Berry drafted DE Alex Wright with our 3rd choice in that round. Not sure how that will turn out - but he got some experience last year as one of Berry's bigger investments in that draft. Isaiah Thomas, looked even better to me but he didn't get as many reps.
We could go FA or draft with this position. I'd rather bring in someone that isn't already too content with his rear view mirror like Clowney is.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Agree. We need a Mike and a Safety just as much IMHO.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
DT - we all know we need at least one.
Mike - we've got Anthony Walker and Deon Jones that did decent jobs, until they got hurt. Certainly those two guys did a better job at their position than our DT's did at theirs.
S - Yup. Letting your starter go means you need one.
WR - Supposedly we had one of the slowest WR groups in the league. And our fast guy can't catch too well, and he gets hurt all the time.
TE - Behind Njoku we have Bryant, who does not represent John Mackie very well, and then just guys.
DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that. But we've got a lot of needs to try and address with 2nd and 3rd day draft picks. And everyone is expecting playoffs in 2023...or else! Right? Their jobs are on the line...and they only have so many tools in their bag for fixing things...and FA is one of those tools.
Right, so let's list the priorities.
You are right about all the positions you mentioned. They are area's for improvement at least, and needs depending on free agency. Further ramblings below.
DT - #1 priority. As much as I would love to see if pairing Javon Hargrave with Myles would be similar to Hayward and Watt, I don't see us spending that kind of money. Remember the combined pressure of those two had our O-line blocking in a posture reminiscent of the Neil Degrasse meme. They didn't want any part of them.
I've mentioned before that I think Dalvin Tomlinson is probably the best value FA. Doesn't get to the passer anywhere near as much as Hargrave, but at less than half the price and a year younger, he is just better value. Would probably still draft another development DT in a later round.
Mike - Although I cannot find anything about Deion Jones' current market value, his last contract was 14M a year. I don't think we can afford him. If healthy, I would love to keep Walker. If so, this position becomes a lower priority. If not, this comes close to a tie for #1 priority.
S - Will have to dismiss the rumors of our interest in Jessie Bates as well, I'm afraid. Again, I do not see us spending that kind of money on a single position. 5 to 10M a year is what we can afford. Early round draft would also be an option.
WR - Looking at this year, this isn't much of a priority. We have a clear WR1 in Coop, a decent WR2 in DPJ, and a talented guy for the slot in Bell. We also have Jakeem Grant coming back from injury, and Demetric Felton who can also catch the ball. So definitely not a 'need,' but apparently this year's WR class is very deep. That means BPA could very well be a WR, and with DPJ in the final year of his contract, I would be open to spending our 2nd rounder. Otherwise, maybe just a later round 'speed guy.'
TE - Would say an upgrade over Bryant would be very nice to have. 12 personnel is still on the rise in the league, and is a great fit for us on paper as well. A better blocker who can also catch could make quite an impact. Could we possibly snatch Hayden Hurst from the bungles?
DE - Would be open to BPA in 2nd round. Otherwise, I see us going the veteran FA route. We have swung and missed with too many development guys already.
OL - We need a back-up for Harris at C in the very least, and a back-up G as well. Hopefully we can affordably re-sign Froholdt for the latter.
QB - I think it is fair to mention Jacoby Brissett. Would have loved to keep him on board as back-up for his personality, and would really be a weapon as a sub for the QB sneak. But believe it or not, he is probably one of the most desirable FA QBs after Jimmy G. Will command too much money and might even end up as a starter somewhere else. Does that mean we will be going into the season with just Mond as back-up?
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DE - Are we all set there without Clowney?
OL - This group was not outstanding this past season. How 'bout center? Pocic is said to want to test the FA waters? Nick Harris? Is he reliable enough?
- FA is an expensive thing. We know that.
I'm not so sure we were set WITH Clowney last year. Just thinking about how many times he lined up offsides as a veteran was very unimpressive. Plus, he didn't always feel like playing when he could have have because this wasn't the type of FA/player that puts his team in-front of the himself.
Anyway, our first round in 2022 was round 3 and Berry drafted DE Alex Wright with our 3rd choice in that round. Not sure how that will turn out - but he got some experience last year as one of Berry's bigger investments in that draft. Isaiah Thomas, looked even better to me but he didn't get as many reps.
We could go FA or draft with this position. I'd rather bring in someone that isn't already too content with his rear view mirror like Clowney is.
round 3 and Berry drafted DE Alex Wright with our 3rd choice in that round...Isaiah Thomas, looked even better
Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
a decent WR2 in DPJ, and a talented guy for the slot in Bell. We also have Jakeem Grant coming back from injury, and Demetric Felton
Hopefully Bell will progress year by year (like, this year
). Grant, I don't have anything to base optimism or pessimism on. I'd be surprised if Felton survives roster cuts. If he does, then we didn't improve the position much, IMO.
Less than a week to FA.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
Right, so let's list the priorities.
You are right about all the positions you mentioned. They are area's for improvement at least, and needs depending on free agency. Further ramblings below.
DT - #1 priority. As much as I would love to see if pairing Javon Hargrave with Myles would be similar to Hayward and Watt, I don't see us spending that kind of money. Remember the combined pressure of those two had our O-line blocking in a posture reminiscent of the Neil Degrasse meme. They didn't want any part of them.
I've mentioned before that I think Dalvin Tomlinson is probably the best value FA. Doesn't get to the passer anywhere near as much as Hargrave, but at less than half the price and a year younger, he is just better value. Would probably still draft another development DT in a later round.
Mike - Although I cannot find anything about Deion Jones' current market value, his last contract was 14M a year. I don't think we can afford him. If healthy, I would love to keep Walker. If so, this position becomes a lower priority. If not, this comes close to a tie for #1 priority.
S - Will have to dismiss the rumors of our interest in Jessie Bates as well, I'm afraid. Again, I do not see us spending that kind of money on a single position. 5 to 10M a year is what we can afford. Early round draft would also be an option.
WR - Looking at this year, this isn't much of a priority. We have a clear WR1 in Coop, a decent WR2 in DPJ, and a talented guy for the slot in Bell. We also have Jakeem Grant coming back from injury, and Demetric Felton who can also catch the ball. So definitely not a 'need,' but apparently this year's WR class is very deep. That means BPA could very well be a WR, and with DPJ in the final year of his contract, I would be open to spending our 2nd rounder. Otherwise, maybe just a later round 'speed guy.'
TE - Would say an upgrade over Bryant would be very nice to have. 12 personnel is still on the rise in the league, and is a great fit for us on paper as well. A better blocker who can also catch could make quite an impact. Could we possibly snatch Hayden Hurst from the bungles?
DE - Would be open to BPA in 2nd round. Otherwise, I see us going the veteran FA route. We have swung and missed with too many development guys already.
OL - We need a back-up for Harris at C in the very least, and a back-up G as well. Hopefully we can affordably re-sign Froholdt for the latter.
QB - I think it is fair to mention Jacoby Brissett. Would have loved to keep him on board as back-up for his personality, and would really be a weapon as a sub for the QB sneak. But believe it or not, he is probably one of the most desirable FA QBs after Jimmy G. Will command too much money and might even end up as a starter somewhere else. Does that mean we will be going into the season with just Mond as back-up?
DT - #1 priority. As much as I would love to see if pairing Javon Hargrave with Myles would be similar to Hayward and Watt, I don't see us spending that kind of money. Remember the combined pressure of those two had our O-line blocking in a posture reminiscent of the Neil Degrasse meme. They didn't want any part of them.
I've mentioned before that I think Dalvin Tomlinson is probably the best value FA. Doesn't get to the passer anywhere near as much as Hargrave, but at less than half the price and a year younger, he is just better value. Would probably still draft another development DT in a later round.
Goes back to a wishlist I have - a monster edge and a 3 tech to push the interior. Especially on the same side of the center, it's incredibly difficult to deal with.
Agreed. And I'm fine with Dalvin not being a big interior pass rusher, this teams sorely lacks the ability to limit the run. Which means, as a defensive whole, we miss out on opportunities to rush the passer.
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DT - #1 priority. As much as I would love to see if pairing Javon Hargrave with Myles would be similar to Hayward and Watt, I don't see us spending that kind of money. Remember the combined pressure of those two had our O-line blocking in a posture reminiscent of the Neil Degrasse meme. They didn't want any part of them.
I've mentioned before that I think Dalvin Tomlinson is probably the best value FA. Doesn't get to the passer anywhere near as much as Hargrave, but at less than half the price and a year younger, he is just better value. Would probably still draft another development DT in a later round.
Goes back to a wishlist I have - a monster edge and a 3 tech to push the interior. Especially on the same side of the center, it's incredibly difficult to deal with.
Agreed. And I'm fine with Dalvin not being a big interior pass rusher, this teams sorely lacks the ability to limit the run. Which means, as a defensive whole, we miss out on opportunities to rush the passer.
this teams sorely lacks the ability to limit the run. Which means, as a defensive whole, we miss out on opportunities to rush the passer.
Right. Because, does it matter how well you can rush the passer...if you can't stop the run?
All of the good CB's and edge rushers that we draft and/or acquire...to defend in this pass happy NFL...aren't of real value to us when the worst rushing team(s) in the league put up 200 yards on us. (Chargers, 238 yards)
The reality is, we've gotta do WhatEver it takes to fix that.
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this teams sorely lacks the ability to limit the run. Which means, as a defensive whole, we miss out on opportunities to rush the passer.
Right. Because, does it matter how well you can rush the passer...if you can't stop the run?
All of the good CB's and edge rushers that we draft and/or acquire...to defend in this pass happy NFL...aren't of real value to us when the worst rushing team(s) in the league put up 200 yards on us. (Chargers, 238 yards)
The reality is, we've gotta do WhatEver it takes to fix that.
Right. Because, does it matter how well you can rush the passer...if you can't stop the run?
All of the good CB's and edge rushers that we draft and/or acquire...to defend in this pass happy NFL...aren't of real value to us when the worst rushing team(s) in the league put up 200 yards on us. (Chargers, 238 yards)
The reality is, we've gotta do WhatEver it takes to fix that.
Kind of like the chicken or the egg question.
I suppose one could say that stopping the run doesn't matter if you can't stop the pass. I think back to something Schwartz said in an early presser. He wants to stop the run on the way to rushing the passer. LOL.. I guess that is his way of saying he wants guys who can do it all.
I can agree with that. Right now we all seem to be in "either or" discussions. If we are going to talk in those terms I guess I would favor the pass rusher.
It's harder to find those guys and you can get some run stopping ability. Run stoppers do pretty much just that and don't do much to collapse a pocket. We also have to consider that DT's don't get many sacks. Their real help in the pass game is to be able to collapse the pocket. If the DTs can push the pocket, QB's don't like not being able to step up. They start to feel surrounded and begin to panic. We don't need sacks out of DT's, we just need them to be able to push the pocket back 3-4 yards.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Browns attend Odell Beckham Jr. workout
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10068372-odell-beckham-jr-rumors-cowboys-skip-wrs-workout-jets-patriots-giants-attendFits in with WR2 being a position of interest for the Browns. But again, surely not!
PFF projects the Browns to land Dalvin Tomlinson in free agency
https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/10/browns-dalvin-tomlinson-pff/Now that's more like it.
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round 3 and Berry drafted DE Alex Wright with our 3rd choice in that round...Isaiah Thomas, looked even better
Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
a decent WR2 in DPJ, and a talented guy for the slot in Bell. We also have Jakeem Grant coming back from injury, and Demetric Felton
Hopefully Bell will progress year by year (like, this year
). Grant, I don't have anything to base optimism or pessimism on. I'd be surprised if Felton survives roster cuts. If he does, then we didn't improve the position much, IMO.
Less than a week to FA.
Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
That, or we could just start redrafting the same position in the first round we enter the draft every year. That'll move us as far forward as sprinting on a treadmill would.
I posted numerous times pre-draft that I wanted a DT last year with our very 1st selection (#68 overall) of round 3 (and I wasn't the only one wanting this pre-hindsight 20/20). I even named the guy I thought we could get there (Travis Jones). Turns out we drafted a very good corner with that selection; and then the Rats drafted Jones at #76 overall. 2 spots later, the Browns reached on Alex Wright at #78 overall. Not at all what I wanted our FO to do with our 2nd pick; but something was warming Berry's groin about the guy to reach that far. IMO, we didn't have the volume of early picks to dick around like that. I don't hold my opinions hostage so I shared a wtf or 2 about it all.
I know a lot of people think I'm really negative about Berry; but here you are challenging me about standing pat on a guy I didn't even want us to draft. Now that Berry committed to him, he's not just gonna cut the guy and re-draft his position before seeing what his guy does with a year of experience under his belt. So yeah, it's important he pans out whether some of us thinks he can or not. We're at the mercy of this GM nobody wants to hold accountable. If he doesn't pan out, you can pretend I drafted him and get mad at me all you want. I'll still have nothing but love for ya!
As for the part I bolded from you above, instead of trying to do better at the DE position the Browns have given attention to in the draft and FA - I'd rather have us address the IDL/DT position this FO neglected. I'm sure our LBers would appreciate that too. I was hoping we got a steal with Winfrey in round 4; but Nurse Ratched wasn't his position coach. Maybe the Browns will actually REASEARCH the DT position for a refreshing change under Berry.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Right. Because, does it matter how well you can rush the passer...if you can't stop the run?
All of the good CB's and edge rushers that we draft and/or acquire...to defend in this pass happy NFL...aren't of real value to us when the worst rushing team(s) in the league put up 200 yards on us. (Chargers, 238 yards)
The reality is, we've gotta do WhatEver it takes to fix that.
Kind of like the chicken or the egg question.
I suppose one could say that stopping the run doesn't matter if you can't stop the pass. I think back to something Schwartz said in an early presser. He wants to stop the run on the way to rushing the passer. LOL.. I guess that is his way of saying he wants guys who can do it all.
I can agree with that. Right now we all seem to be in "either or" discussions. If we are going to talk in those terms I guess I would favor the pass rusher.
It's harder to find those guys and you can get some run stopping ability. Run stoppers do pretty much just that and don't do much to collapse a pocket. We also have to consider that DT's don't get many sacks. Their real help in the pass game is to be able to collapse the pocket. If the DTs can push the pocket, QB's don't like not being able to step up. They start to feel surrounded and begin to panic. We don't need sacks out of DT's, we just need them to be able to push the pocket back 3-4 yards.
Kind of like the chicken or the egg question.
I suppose one could say that stopping the run doesn't matter if you can't stop the pass. I think back to something Schwartz said in an early presser. He wants to stop the run on the way to rushing the passer. LOL.. I guess that is his way of saying he wants guys who can do it all.
I can agree with that. Right now we all seem to be in "either or" discussions. If we are going to talk in those terms I guess I would favor the pass rusher.
It's harder to find those guys and you can get some run stopping ability. Run stoppers do pretty much just that and don't do much to collapse a pocket. We also have to consider that DT's don't get many sacks. Their real help in the pass game is to be able to collapse the pocket. If the DTs can push the pocket, QB's don't like not being able to step up. They start to feel surrounded and begin to panic. We don't need sacks out of DT's, we just need them to be able to push the pocket back 3-4 yards.
Yes and no. The great divide being the red zone, or money zone, depending on who you ask. A team like the Ravens, despite having a pretty awful secondary, was able to make their bones off being an effective redzone defense. Their ability to snuff out the run when the field shrinks to the bare minimum, the passing game takes a back seat and you have to move bodies was pretty outstanding.
While I was just a kid, the 02' Browns were VERY similar. Gave up a ton of yards for various reasons, but bowed their necks in the redzone to force field goals.
Meanwhile CLE was the total opposite this year and the opposing TD% in the redzone speaks to that.
But, much like anything else, you can't be too out of balanced. Having awful DB's means that your pass rush doesn't get that extra half second it might need to get pressure. Having a terrible pass rush means your DB's are out in patterns for a lifetime. I will say this though, I'm probably the youngest person on this board, but in my lifetime I've NEVER seen a great defensive backfield makeup for a below average defensive front. However I have seen a great defensive front make up for below average DB play. And I say that as somebody who calls DB 'home'.
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round 3 and Berry drafted DE Alex Wright with our 3rd choice in that round...Isaiah Thomas, looked even better
Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
a decent WR2 in DPJ, and a talented guy for the slot in Bell. We also have Jakeem Grant coming back from injury, and Demetric Felton
Hopefully Bell will progress year by year (like, this year
). Grant, I don't have anything to base optimism or pessimism on. I'd be surprised if Felton survives roster cuts. If he does, then we didn't improve the position much, IMO.
Less than a week to FA.
Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
Hopefully Bell will progress year by year (like, this year
). Grant, I don't have anything to base optimism or pessimism on. I'd be surprised if Felton survives roster cuts. If he does, then we didn't improve the position much, IMO.
Less than a week to FA.
IT has shown more in his rookie season than Double T did in 2 years. As much as it pains me to say that about a Buckeye.
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Tia also favors Thomas. So maybe they stand pat and go with their draft picks of last year. It worked out so well with Elliott and Togiai.
That, or we could just start redrafting the same position in the first round we enter the draft every year. That'll move us as far forward as sprinting on a treadmill would.
I posted numerous times pre-draft that I wanted a DT last year with our very 1st selection (#68 overall) of round 3 (and I wasn't the only one wanting this pre-hindsight 20/20). I even named the guy I thought we could get there (Travis Jones). Turns out we drafted a very good corner with that selection; and then the Rats drafted Jones at #76 overall. 2 spots later, the Browns reached on Alex Wright at #78 overall. Not at all what I wanted our FO to do with our 2nd pick; but something was warming Berry's groin about the guy to reach that far. IMO, we didn't have the volume of early picks to dick around like that. I don't hold my opinions hostage so I shared a wtf or 2 about it all.
I know a lot of people think I'm really negative about Berry; but here you are challenging me about standing pat on a guy I didn't even want us to draft. Now that Berry committed to him, he's not just gonna cut the guy and re-draft his position before seeing what his guy does with a year of experience under his belt. So yeah, it's important he pans out whether some of us thinks he can or not. We're at the mercy of this GM nobody wants to hold accountable. If he doesn't pan out, you can pretend I drafted him and get mad at me all you want. I'll still have nothing but love for ya!
As for the part I bolded from you above, instead of trying to do better at the DE position the Browns have given attention to in the draft and FA - I'd rather have us address the IDL/DT position this FO neglected. I'm sure our LBers would appreciate that too. I was hoping we got a steal with Winfrey in round 4; but Nurse Ratched wasn't his position coach. Maybe the Browns will actually REASEARCH the DT position for a refreshing change under Berry.
Now that Berry committed to him, he's not just gonna cut the guy and re-draft his position before seeing what his guy does with a year of experience under his belt.
That's the way GM's are. The draft picks get the benefit of the doubt. GM's don't want their draft picks getting cut. It makes them look bad. An undrafted player has to really outshine a drafted player almost like the sun compared to the moon in order to unseat a draft pick.
the DE position the Browns have given attention to in the draft and FA - I'd rather have us address the IDL/DT position this FO neglected.
I guarantee you that the DT position will be addressed in the coming month and a half. We all saw the problem. It's impossible to ignore this time around. One could make a strong argument that the DT position lost us multiple games and was probably the main factor that we didn't make a playoff run.
That said, there would be no guarantee that a suitable DT will be available at pick 43 (or 44, whatever our 1st pick is). And it's SUCH a big issue that I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it happen this Monday when legal tampering begins.
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Now that Berry committed to him, he's not just gonna cut the guy and re-draft his position before seeing what his guy does with a year of experience under his belt.
That's the way GM's are. The draft picks get the benefit of the doubt. GM's don't want their draft picks getting cut. It makes them look bad. An undrafted player has to really outshine a drafted player almost like the sun compared to the moon in order to unseat a draft pick.
the DE position the Browns have given attention to in the draft and FA - I'd rather have us address the IDL/DT position this FO neglected.
I guarantee you that the DT position will be addressed in the coming month and a half. We all saw the problem. It's impossible to ignore this time around. One could make a strong argument that the DT position lost us multiple games and was probably the main factor that we didn't make a playoff run.
That said, there would be no guarantee that a suitable DT will be available at pick 43 (or 44, whatever our 1st pick is). And it's SUCH a big issue that I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it happen this Monday when legal tampering begins.
I guarantee you that the DT position will be addressed in the coming month and a half. We all saw the problem. It's impossible to ignore this time around. One could make a strong argument that the DT position lost us multiple games and was probably the main factor that we didn't make a playoff run.
That said, there would be no guarantee that a suitable DT will be available at pick 43 (or 44, whatever our 1st pick is). And it's SUCH a big issue that I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see it happen this Monday when legal tampering begins.
I'll start with the good. I appreciate you trying to make me feel better about DT.
My worries? I'm gonna forget I've never smoked a cigarette in my life and be a chain smoker by the time we draft a long snapper in round 2.
I'm still worried about a GM who decides he wants to go with lighter/smaller framed LBers while forfeiting/neglecting the IDL positions in front of them LOST us multiple games and 4 LBers to IR. That type of planning from a guy that is responsible for building our team showed me a guy that didn't understand the line of scrimmage on the defensive side of the ball at all
I'm not nearly as worried about a suitable DT being available at pick #43 overall as I am about Berry knowing who is suitable and who is not at that spot. I think that's why the guy reaches more than he needs to. This will be Berry's 4th draft. The only offensive or defensive linemen he has drafted that definitively projects to be starting this year is Wills; and that's not exactly impressing the masses. If we can't keep Pocic, we may be deciding between 5th round pick Nick Harris and 7th round pick Dawson Deaton or Hjalte Froholdt (a former 4th rd pick and offensive guard for NE that filled in at C here when Pocic was injured).
Before the NFL increased the salary cap for this offseason, the Browns were one of the teams with the least amount of money to spend. I'm guessing the Browns are still in this situation. When you have to keep signing FA veterans from other teams because you're not drafting well - they cost way more than rookies under the rookie salary cap restrictions. This HAS to get better; but it won't if the Browns keep scapegoating the symptoms of Berry's bad decisions on draft day.
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