2023 Browns NFL Draft Prospects
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However when they did throw his direction he had excellent pass catching ability
There's this trend I noticed, going back and watching all of his targets and his 35 catches.
Devon really struggles at times to catch anything below his waist or above his shoulders and outside his frame. Basically if it's not on his pad or number, it's a toss up.
This drop above represents what would have been 2.85% of his catches for the entire season. So it's not like he's getting volume either. I can forgive a normal amount of drops if he's getting a ton of targets beyond the simple screen game... but he didn't.
which is why some pro scouts were working him out in WR for the A&M proday. I think they saw what I saw the past two years. When they target him he gets open and creates problems.
This is where I come around to another issue because I've been trying to find some comparisons to his inside running style and first step. Naturally, being that I'm a Buckeye, I saw Jamaal Berry... completely unknown to most anybody outside of diehard OSU guys. But between the tackles, that's what his footwork and hips remind me of more than Elijah Mitchell now. Problem is, much like his catching ability, I see it as a both a positive AND negative.
The other thing I'm noticing is that elite first and second step burst just it isn't there. At least, not the "10 year speed" there. I'm talking about the thing that erases angles and breaks ankles. I'm really beginning to see where the strengths are. On the zone stretch, it's the B gap one cut to vertical speed. At 15 yards he's unmatched, provided he isn't changing direction horizontally. But that's about as uncommon a scenario in the NFL for a ball carrier as you're going to get. His lateral start stop, that jump cut to plant foot ---> gone... it isn't as elite as I was lead to believe or you think, IMHO. Allow me to build on that.
10 yard splits from this 2023 RB class.
Keaton Mitchell' 5'9 180lbs 1.48
Devon Archane 5'9 188lbs 1.51
Bijan Robinson 5'11 220lb 1.52
Roschon Johnson 6'2 223 lbs 1.52
Jahmyr Gibbs, 5'11 201lbs 1.52
Chase Brown 5'10 211lbs 1.53
Evan Hull 5'11 210lbs 1.53
Deneric Prince 5'11 215lbs 1.53
So that's 6 RB's alone who run a 10 yard splits that are only separate by hundredths of a second. Of those 6, all are at or over 13lbs heavier and 1-2inches taller than Archane. Which means they have more vertical mass to drop, plant and change direction. To quote Paul Wall... 'crawlin similar to an ant'. So being that Devon is shorter and has a great RB build for his lower body, it's pretty damning for me to see bigger and taller RB's having equal burst as him. This is why I'm coming around to my belief that early/mid day 2 is just too steep of a price to pay for Archane. At least, for the Browns it is (in my football opinion.)
The Niners are a team who have struggled to connect with their RB picks in the 3rd round. However they absolutely demolish when it comes to day 3 and UDFA. Circle back around to some names I love such as Mitchell, or one of my favorites - Raheem Mostert.
It's why I don't partake in mock drafts unless I'm attempting emulate what I genuinely feel would be the consensus for BPA/Need for the Browns as from, what I would feel, is the perspective of administration.
Anywho, I'm closing the book on Archane and looking at Day 3 RB's because I do believe Young Berry will be looking ahead to a world without Nick Chubb.
It's why I don't partake in mock drafts unless I'm attempting emulate what I genuinely feel would be the consensus for BPA/Need for the Browns as from, what I would feel, is the perspective of administration.
bs. you don't do mock drafts because it is so hard, nobody can get it mostly right.
your belligerent, childish ego can't handle being wrong, and just like most anybody else, you would fail to nail them, too. You don't need to respond, just DO a mock draft, and everybody else will see that it's true.
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However when they did throw his direction he had excellent pass catching ability
There's this trend I noticed, going back and watching all of his targets and his 35 catches.
Devon really struggles at times to catch anything below his waist or above his shoulders and outside his frame. Basically if it's not on his pad or number, it's a toss up.
This drop above represents what would have been 2.85% of his catches for the entire season. So it's not like he's getting volume either. I can forgive a normal amount of drops if he's getting a ton of targets beyond the simple screen game... but he didn't.
which is why some pro scouts were working him out in WR for the A&M proday. I think they saw what I saw the past two years. When they target him he gets open and creates problems.
This is where I come around to another issue because I've been trying to find some comparisons to his inside running style and first step. Naturally, being that I'm a Buckeye, I saw Jamaal Berry... completely unknown to most anybody outside of diehard OSU guys. But between the tackles, that's what his footwork and hips remind me of more than Elijah Mitchell now. Problem is, much like his catching ability, I see it as a both a positive AND negative.
The other thing I'm noticing is that elite first and second step burst just it isn't there. At least, not the "10 year speed" there. I'm talking about the thing that erases angles and breaks ankles. I'm really beginning to see where the strengths are. On the zone stretch, it's the B gap one cut to vertical speed. At 15 yards he's unmatched, provided he isn't changing direction horizontally. But that's about as uncommon a scenario in the NFL for a ball carrier as you're going to get. His lateral start stop, that jump cut to plant foot ---> gone... it isn't as elite as I was lead to believe or you think, IMHO. Allow me to build on that.
10 yard splits from this 2023 RB class.
Keaton Mitchell' 5'9 180lbs 1.48
Devon Archane 5'9 188lbs 1.51
Bijan Robinson 5'11 220lb 1.52
Roschon Johnson 6'2 223 lbs 1.52
Jahmyr Gibbs, 5'11 201lbs 1.52
Chase Brown 5'10 211lbs 1.53
Evan Hull 5'11 210lbs 1.53
Deneric Prince 5'11 215lbs 1.53
So that's 6 RB's alone who run a 10 yard splits that are only separate by hundredths of a second. Of those 6, all are at or over 13lbs heavier and 1-2inches taller than Archane. Which means they have more vertical mass to drop, plant and change direction. To quote Paul Wall... 'crawlin similar to an ant'. So being that Devon is shorter and has a great RB build for his lower body, it's pretty damning for me to see bigger and taller RB's having equal burst as him. This is why I'm coming around to my belief that early/mid day 2 is just too steep of a price to pay for Archane. At least, for the Browns it is (in my football opinion.)
The Niners are a team who have struggled to connect with their RB picks in the 3rd round. However they absolutely demolish when it comes to day 3 and UDFA. Circle back around to some names I love such as Mitchell, or one of my favorites - Raheem Mostert.
It's why I don't partake in mock drafts unless I'm attempting emulate what I genuinely feel would be the consensus for BPA/Need for the Browns as from, what I would feel, is the perspective of administration.
Anywho, I'm closing the book on Archane and looking at Day 3 RB's because I do believe Young Berry will be looking ahead to a world without Nick Chubb.
So that's 6 RB's alone who run a 10 yard splits that are only separate by hundredths of a second. Of those 6, all are at or over 13lbs heavier and 1-2inches taller than Archane. Which means they have more vertical mass to drop, plant and change direction. To quote Paul Wall... 'crawlin similar to an ant'. So being that Devon is shorter and has a great RB build for his lower body, it's pretty damning for me to see bigger and taller RB's having equal burst as him. This is why I'm coming around to my belief that early/mid day 2 is just too steep of a price to pay for Archane. At least, for the Browns it is (in my football opinion.)
And if he's still there day 3 would you move up a little to get him?
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So that's 6 RB's alone who run a 10 yard splits that are only separate by hundredths of a second. Of those 6, all are at or over 13lbs heavier and 1-2inches taller than Archane. Which means they have more vertical mass to drop, plant and change direction. To quote Paul Wall... 'crawlin similar to an ant'. So being that Devon is shorter and has a great RB build for his lower body, it's pretty damning for me to see bigger and taller RB's having equal burst as him. This is why I'm coming around to my belief that early/mid day 2 is just too steep of a price to pay for Archane. At least, for the Browns it is (in my football opinion.)
And if he's still there day 3 would you move up a little to get him?
And if he's still there day 3 would you move up a little to get him?
Good question, that depends entirely on how the previous picks play out and who is still left on the board.
If I'm answering this in a vacuum? Well, let's see....
Felton was a 6th round pick who had a 10 yard split at 1.62, 4.59 40 and a 7.31 3 cone. Sucks we don't have the numbers from Archane on the 3 cone. Either way, Archane is bigger and faster especially when it comes to that high gear. So if Devon is still there late round 4... then yeah, I'd probably have that talk about moving up for him.
(would prefer 5th though)
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For anyone interested in joining, I'll be giving a solid going-over of Deneric Prince, RB Tulsa starting ... now. On TBB discord, starting with his game against Cincy.
Remember, I share my screen. So all you have to do is enter the program, join the chat and you're in. You'll see everything I do and work on.
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Denaric Prince. Hope he can catch on with some team.
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/deneric-prince/32005052-4948-2971-4589-5cd8f3fc56b0
Prospect Info
CollegeTulsaHometownClassManvel, TXR-SeniorHeight6’ 0’’Weight216 lbsArm31 1/4’’Hand9 1/4’’Prospect Grade
5.68Candidate for bottom of roster or practice squad
70Good -
https://www.si.com/nfl/draft/news/deneric-prince
rated here as an UDFA.
If you had a place for him on your roster, and he fit what you needed.... a late round pick might make sense.
Reminds me of Larry Poole, of Kent State. Was a 9th round pick by the Browns. Powerful/fast, etc. Stayed in the NFL for few years, let go, signed by the Oilers but never played I think.
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For anyone interested in joining, I'll be giving a solid going-over of Deneric Prince, RB Tulsa starting ... now. On TBB discord, starting with his game against Cincy.
Remember, I share my screen. So all you have to do is enter the program, join the chat and you're in. You'll see everything I do and work on.
For anyone interested in joining, I'll be giving a solid going-over of Deneric Prince, RB Tulsa starting ... now. On TBB discord, starting with his game against Cincy.
Remember, I share my screen. So all you have to do is enter the program, join the chat and you're in. You'll see everything I do and work on.
We saw him play against Temple High I believe the year Temple beat them and ended up playing Highland Park in Jerryworld for the state championship. A very good receiver back then.
EDIT: Nah I was thinking of his teammate Preston who now plays for A&M. Prince was the RB who also signed with A&M but transferred to Tulsa. Just not as good as 3 or 4 ahead of him.
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Re: Prince
I'm basically working from the bottom up for day 3 RB's. I started here because a friend of mine said he lit the RAS numbers up. I'll be real, RB is the top position where RAS means absolutely fucking nothing to me. And DP sort of proves why. I watched 3 games. Vs Cincy, Temple and SMU.
Holy hell, was it bad.
- Vision and anticipation are spotty at best. Runs himself into traffic quite a bit.
- Inconsistent pad level
- Poor contact balance and minimizing strike area
- "heavy" feet
- poor lateral explosion and change of direction
- lacks patience and pacing behind LoS. Wants to take the ball and sprint.
- Eyes and feet rarely press the hole. Tends to telegraph where he's going and invites LBs to him. I honestly feel like he guesses his hole presnap and fails to understand his post snap read point and located/understanding leverage. Which is why he tends to do better with a lead in front of him. Helps remove a lot of the 'thinking' for RBs on a follow.
- questionable ball security. 3 fumbles in 126 carries.... Yikes
- Decent hands when catching
- Runs tough and keeps his feet driving forward
- solid straight line speed to take it the distance
It's a hard no from me. Likely from about any GM. He has vision, ball security and footwork problems. Those are the 3 killers for any RB, the first 2 especially. I can only sum it up by saying Prince is just an incredibly inefficient runner. Failing to generate even expected yardage against what is blocked. He did well against bottom feeders then averaged 3.6ypc against the rest. That won't do in the NFL. He might be drafted late 7th for special teams? That's about it, if some GM is hammered drunk. Likely undrafted all together. He's easily the worst back I've watched this year. Not like he isn't physically capable... His between the ears really is lacking for the position.
UDFA
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It's why I don't partake in mock drafts unless I'm attempting emulate what I genuinely feel would be the consensus for BPA/Need for the Browns as from, what I would feel, is the perspective of administration.
bs. you don't do mock drafts because it is so hard, nobody can get it mostly right.
your belligerent, childish ego can't handle being wrong, and just like most anybody else, you would fail to nail them, too. You don't need to respond, just DO a mock draft, and everybody else will see that it's true.
bs. you don't do mock drafts because it is so hard, nobody can get it mostly right.
your belligerent, childish ego can't handle being wrong, and just like most anybody else, you would fail to nail them, too. You don't need to respond, just DO a mock draft, and everybody else will see that it's true.
catturd is still very butthurt at you tia.
Something over at the Poliboard must have him very, very agitated. ?
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bs. you don't do mock drafts because it is so hard, nobody can get it mostly right.
your belligerent, childish ego can't handle being wrong, and just like most anybody else, you would fail to nail them, too. You don't need to respond, just DO a mock draft, and everybody else will see that it's true.
catturd is still very butthurt at you tia.
Something over at the Poliboard must have him very, very agitated. ?
catturd is still very butthurt at you tia.
At this point, unless I read/hear something intelligent or honest, I don't have the patience or time to bother responding.
Mostly the former.
edit: If ol' boy wants to talk shop, he's more than welcomed to. Beyond that? Hard pass.
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Roschon Johson RB, Texas.
- Good pad level
- Good first step burst, shows some stop/start with it.
- Quality hole press with eyes and shoulders, not bringing traffic to him.
- Creates contact and balances off it. Has moments where he delivers some punishment to.
- Willing and reliable blocker. The way he goes after DB's reminds me of Zeke Elliot at OSU. He looks for work when he's asked to lead and the ball isn't in his hands. Very unselfish player.
- Pretty ideal size. 6'ft 215-220lbs.
- Alright hands out of the backfield. Sort of in the same mold that Chubb and Hunt are. Not athletic pass catchers, but they'll work the screen, flat and checkdown game just fine.
- Consistent running style that generates positive yardage. Didn't really see him take many TFL or TFNG.
- Shows some patience behind the LoS waiting for his blocks to develop. Can get a bit ahead of himself at times as well, but it isn't awful or routine.
- Dances at times trying to make 2nd level defenders miss laterally. He's decent enough, but he isn't Jamaal Charles.
- Only took more than 100 carries in a season once, so there isn't a ton of wear on his body coming into the league.
For me, I see an unpolished player with a reasonable floor who shows flashes. But one that Coach Stump can really take and mold him into an effective and consistent NFL back with some decent upside. A one cut, single back plug and play on the cheap type.
So far, this is my day 3 RB target. The only problem, while I'd slot him 4th round, are teams getting trigger happy at the potential development and him going VERY late 3rd round? Gut says, with position runs, middle round 4... but then dumb shit happens and he's still there late round 4 as well. Feeling says early-ish day 3. But I like what I saw in the 3 games I watched (Bama, UTSA, KState)
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Roschon Johson RB, Texas.
- Good pad level
- Good first step burst, shows some stop/start with it.
- Quality hole press with eyes and shoulders, not bringing traffic to him.
- Creates contact and balances off it. Has moments where he delivers some punishment to.
- Willing and reliable blocker. The way he goes after DB's reminds me of Zeke Elliot at OSU. He looks for work when he's asked to lead and the ball isn't in his hands. Very unselfish player.
- Pretty ideal size. 6'ft 215-220lbs.
- Alright hands out of the backfield. Sort of in the same mold that Chubb and Hunt are. Not athletic pass catchers, but they'll work the screen, flat and checkdown game just fine.
- Consistent running style that generates positive yardage. Didn't really see him take many TFL or TFNG.
- Shows some patience behind the LoS waiting for his blocks to develop. Can get a bit ahead of himself at times as well, but it isn't awful or routine.
- Dances at times trying to make 2nd level defenders miss laterally. He's decent enough, but he isn't Jamaal Charles.
- Only took more than 100 carries in a season once, so there isn't a ton of wear on his body coming into the league.
For me, I see an unpolished player with a reasonable floor who shows flashes. But one that Coach Stump can really take and mold him into an effective and consistent NFL back with some decent upside. A one cut, single back plug and play on the cheap type.
So far, this is my day 3 RB target. The only problem, while I'd slot him 4th round, are teams getting trigger happy at the potential development and him going VERY late 3rd round? Gut says, with position runs, middle round 4... but then dumb shit happens and he's still there late round 4 as well. Feeling says early-ish day 3. But I like what I saw in the 3 games I watched (Bama, UTSA, KState)
Roschon Johson RB, Texas.
So far, this is my day 3 RB target. The only problem, while I'd slot him 4th round, are teams getting trigger happy at the potential development and him going VERY late 3rd round? Gut says, with position runs, middle round 4... but then dumb shit happens and he's still there late round 4 as well. Feeling says early-ish day 3. But I like what I saw in the 3 games I watched (Bama, UTSA, KState)
You are not the only one noticing him. Recently jumped 70 places to #127 on Draftek's BB. And that's about as late as he gets projected. Others already have him as a rnd 3 pick.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
If none of those tickle your fancy, we may have to go the Isiah Pacheco late round gem route.
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Does Nick Chubb's contract expire after the 2024 season?
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Roschon Johson RB, Texas.
So far, this is my day 3 RB target. The only problem, while I'd slot him 4th round, are teams getting trigger happy at the potential development and him going VERY late 3rd round? Gut says, with position runs, middle round 4... but then dumb shit happens and he's still there late round 4 as well. Feeling says early-ish day 3. But I like what I saw in the 3 games I watched (Bama, UTSA, KState)
You are not the only one noticing him. Recently jumped 70 places to #127 on Draftek's BB. And that's about as late as he gets projected. Others already have him as a rnd 3 pick.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
If none of those tickle your fancy, we may have to go the Isiah Pacheco late round gem route.
You are not the only one noticing him. Recently jumped 70 places to #127 on Draftek's BB. And that's about as late as he gets projected. Others already have him as a rnd 3 pick.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
If none of those tickle your fancy, we may have to go the Isiah Pacheco late round gem route.
And they have moved Achane up to #49 (mid 2nd round), but in their mock draft have him going to Miami in the 3rd @ # 84 after the Browns pick in the DL. Very strange.
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Roschon Johson RB, Texas.
So far, this is my day 3 RB target. The only problem, while I'd slot him 4th round, are teams getting trigger happy at the potential development and him going VERY late 3rd round? Gut says, with position runs, middle round 4... but then dumb shit happens and he's still there late round 4 as well. Feeling says early-ish day 3. But I like what I saw in the 3 games I watched (Bama, UTSA, KState)
You are not the only one noticing him. Recently jumped 70 places to #127 on Draftek's BB. And that's about as late as he gets projected. Others already have him as a rnd 3 pick.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
If none of those tickle your fancy, we may have to go the Isiah Pacheco late round gem route.
Similar players (on paper) projected to be available around that time are: Tank Bigsby (Auburn), Kendre Miller (TCU) and Kenny McIntosh (Georgia).
Current watch(ed) list as of this morning.
RB - Deneric Prince - X UDFA
Roschon Johnson - * Day 3 (early?)
Zach Evans - X Day 3 (later)
Kendre Miller - X Day 3
Sean Tucker - * Late Day 2, early Day 3?edit: Adding Devon Archane per the last conversation
Devon Archane - * Day 3
X = pass
* = Willing to draft
Currently working on Tank Bigsby.
Does Nick Chubb's contract expire after the 2024 season?
Yes
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offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.
I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.
too bad, eh?
I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....
dammit.
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bigger list - most are really interesting guys:
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offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.
I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.
too bad, eh?
I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....
dammit.
I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....
dammit.
I'm not so sure I would draft Carter because of his limited time against superior offenses. This is their schedule / scores from last season. Not too many difficult teams there. NFL is too big a jump IMO.
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Holy shitballs, the Draft is in three weeks!
It really sneaks up on you when it feels like a decade since the last time we drafted in the first couple of rounds ?
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offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.
I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.
too bad, eh?
I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....
dammit.
offhand, I love to find the "unknown" steals of the draft - from small schools.
I tend to imagine "they" won't notice some highly skilled kid from a small school, but of course, they eventually do everytime, even if they don't get an invite to the combine.
too bad, eh?
I think Rice and Peoples have my strongest keen interest, but I like every one of them. I would love to take a chance on Carter, but with no #1 or #2 now....
dammit.
Here's a WR from Princeton that might interest you Cal. His names is Andrei Iosivas and he stand 6'3" tall at 201lbs He ran a 4.43 forty at the combines and is currently projected to go between rounds 3 and 5.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!"
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