Jason, Aloy, Ytown, Shep
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@inspecta said:
Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?!It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed.
Exactly. Steel on target.
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@inspecta said:
Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.I just can't believe that we played the Purple People Eaters of the late 60's in week #1 and now we ... err ... Brady has to face the Orange Crush from 1978, and the 2000 Raven Defense thereafter ...
Don't they know he is only a rookie?
Next up:
Steel Curtain defense in week 6
1962 Packers defense in week 7
Buddy Ryan's blitzing '46' defense in week 8
Hank Strams 'Triple stack' defense down the road followed by Jack Tatum and company in week 16.
This ain't going to be a cake walk ...
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@inspecta said:
Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.I just can't believe that we played the Purple People Eaters of the late 60's in week #1 and now we ... err ... Brady has to face the Orange Crush from 1978, and the 2000 Raven Defense thereafter ...
Don't they know he is only a rookie?
Next up:
Steel Curtain defense in week 6
1962 Packers defense in week 7
Buddy Ryan's blitzing '46' defense in week 8
Hank Strams 'Triple stack' defense down the road followed by Jack Tatum and company in week 16.
This ain't going to be a cake walk ...
I just can't believe that we played the Purple People Eaters of the late 60's in week #1 and now we ... err ... Brady has to face the Orange Crush from 1978, and the 2000 Raven Defense thereafter ...
Don't they know he is only a rookie?
Next up:
Steel Curtain defense in week 6
1962 Packers defense in week 7
Buddy Ryan's blitzing '46' defense in week 8
Hank Strams 'Triple stack' defense down the road followed by Jack Tatum and company in week 16.
This ain't going to be a cake walk ...
It's going to be okay. Just think - we could be worse. DA could be the starter.
"I will not insult your intelligence by suggesting you really believe what you just said." William F Buckley -
@inspecta said:
Your so full of shit. In 07 when we were winning the only thing we critiqued was DA getting us in a hole early on. But he would make up for it. When we played good teams he would shit the bed and we would go "aww shucks" it wasn't until the 2nd Cincy game where he took the mother of all dumps in the bed did we as a fan base really turn on him. It was then and only then we looked back at that glorious season did we say "Hey wait a minute....everybody we beat.....sucked!!" That was the first indication that DA might be the adage "everything that glitters ain't always gold" personified. Then in 2008 when the NFL treated us to 5 primetime games and one of the hardest schedules in the league we saw a consistently shitty DA. When he had to face the top talent of the NFL week in and week out he was woefully overmatched. All of this is over a 27 game stretch. Like I said we didn't start getting really critical of him until the 2nd Cincy game of 07 (for those keeping score that was around his 19th start). Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?! Makes no f*cking sense.However that's not the issue here. All of this shit stems from the long 8 month argument we've been beating ourselves over the head with. It's not about looking at the game objectively. It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
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I just can't believe that we played the Purple People Eaters of the late 60's in week #1 and now we ... err ... Brady has to face the Orange Crush from 1978, and the 2000 Raven Defense thereafter ...
Don't they know he is only a rookie?
Next up:
Steel Curtain defense in week 6
1962 Packers defense in week 7
Buddy Ryan's blitzing '46' defense in week 8
Hank Strams 'Triple stack' defense down the road followed by Jack Tatum and company in week 16.
This ain't going to be a cake walk ...
It's going to be okay. Just think - we could be worse. DA could be the starter.
It's going to be okay. Just think - we could be worse. DA could be the starter.
You must mean, 'Brian Sipe'
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@inspecta said:
Your so full of shit. In 07 when we were winning the only thing we critiqued was DA getting us in a hole early on. But he would make up for it. When we played good teams he would shit the bed and we would go "aww shucks" it wasn't until the 2nd Cincy game where he took the mother of all dumps in the bed did we as a fan base really turn on him. It was then and only then we looked back at that glorious season did we say "Hey wait a minute....everybody we beat.....sucked!!" That was the first indication that DA might be the adage "everything that glitters ain't always gold" personified. Then in 2008 when the NFL treated us to 5 primetime games and one of the hardest schedules in the league we saw a consistently shitty DA. When he had to face the top talent of the NFL week in and week out he was woefully overmatched. All of this is over a 27 game stretch. Like I said we didn't start getting really critical of him until the 2nd Cincy game of 07 (for those keeping score that was around his 19th start). Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?! Makes no f*cking sense.However that's not the issue here. All of this shit stems from the long 8 month argument we've been beating ourselves over the head with. It's not about looking at the game objectively. It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
So why don't you share one of those examples from eaerly in 2007 about DA, cause I sure don't remember them.
Since when is a legitimate broken finger on his throwing hand that required surgery a made up excuse for Quinn's passing issues in the BUF and HOU games?
Tell me, how many defenses has Brady actually faced in the regular NFL game?
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@inspecta said:
Your so full of shit. In 07 when we were winning the only thing we critiqued was DA getting us in a hole early on. But he would make up for it. When we played good teams he would shit the bed and we would go "aww shucks" it wasn't until the 2nd Cincy game where he took the mother of all dumps in the bed did we as a fan base really turn on him. It was then and only then we looked back at that glorious season did we say "Hey wait a minute....everybody we beat.....sucked!!" That was the first indication that DA might be the adage "everything that glitters ain't always gold" personified. Then in 2008 when the NFL treated us to 5 primetime games and one of the hardest schedules in the league we saw a consistently shitty DA. When he had to face the top talent of the NFL week in and week out he was woefully overmatched. All of this is over a 27 game stretch. Like I said we didn't start getting really critical of him until the 2nd Cincy game of 07 (for those keeping score that was around his 19th start). Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?! Makes no f*cking sense.However that's not the issue here. All of this shit stems from the long 8 month argument we've been beating ourselves over the head with. It's not about looking at the game objectively. It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
..Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
Can't have it both ways. You're ridiculing excuses as to why Quinn didn't play better, then excusing his good play away by chalking it up to bad defenses.
The bottom line is its too early to tell on Quinn. If Quinn has a good game against Denver, there may be reason to hope, but still too early to tell.
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@inspecta said:
Your so full of shit. In 07 when we were winning the only thing we critiqued was DA getting us in a hole early on. But he would make up for it. When we played good teams he would shit the bed and we would go "aww shucks" it wasn't until the 2nd Cincy game where he took the mother of all dumps in the bed did we as a fan base really turn on him. It was then and only then we looked back at that glorious season did we say "Hey wait a minute....everybody we beat.....sucked!!" That was the first indication that DA might be the adage "everything that glitters ain't always gold" personified. Then in 2008 when the NFL treated us to 5 primetime games and one of the hardest schedules in the league we saw a consistently shitty DA. When he had to face the top talent of the NFL week in and week out he was woefully overmatched. All of this is over a 27 game stretch. Like I said we didn't start getting really critical of him until the 2nd Cincy game of 07 (for those keeping score that was around his 19th start). Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?! Makes no f*cking sense.However that's not the issue here. All of this shit stems from the long 8 month argument we've been beating ourselves over the head with. It's not about looking at the game objectively. It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
He hasn't played many, now has he? Should I list the defenses DA sucked against?
Man I can't wait to figure out WTF is going on with this damn position. Bashing one of my own players - especially the QB - sucks.
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@inspecta said:
Your so full of shit. In 07 when we were winning the only thing we critiqued was DA getting us in a hole early on. But he would make up for it. When we played good teams he would shit the bed and we would go "aww shucks" it wasn't until the 2nd Cincy game where he took the mother of all dumps in the bed did we as a fan base really turn on him. It was then and only then we looked back at that glorious season did we say "Hey wait a minute....everybody we beat.....sucked!!" That was the first indication that DA might be the adage "everything that glitters ain't always gold" personified. Then in 2008 when the NFL treated us to 5 primetime games and one of the hardest schedules in the league we saw a consistently shitty DA. When he had to face the top talent of the NFL week in and week out he was woefully overmatched. All of this is over a 27 game stretch. Like I said we didn't start getting really critical of him until the 2nd Cincy game of 07 (for those keeping score that was around his 19th start). Yet you expect us to be as equally critical of a QB making his 4th start as we were of one making his 19th start?!?! Makes no f*cking sense.However that's not the issue here. All of this shit stems from the long 8 month argument we've been beating ourselves over the head with. It's not about looking at the game objectively. It's about the DA backers who are now getting their "revenge" for having to listen to all of us bitch about his play last year. Now it's their turn to bitch and piss and moan, and they are not going to be denyed. They were all happy as shit Sunday played out like it did. They hope they get to do it again Sunday. Well just one DA fag in particular, but I think it bleeds over to the others just to a lesser extent.
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
BQ is not the answer for this team. We should have drafted Sanchez. Now we are stuck with two mediocre QB's, neither of which will help turn this franchise around. What is the answer??????
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No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
BQ is not the answer for this team. We should have drafted Sanchez. Now we are stuck with two mediocre QB's, neither of which will help turn this franchise around. What is the answer??????
...What is the answer??????
Answer: Give it a little while. Even if your gut is telling you DA and Quinn are not the answer, there's no way the Browns should kick Quinn out of town today.
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That's an awful lot for one post. Hell, I have trouble answering "What time is it?" in less than 4 paragraphs. But, I'll give it a shot.
Quarterbacks: In Quinn, the Browns have a well schooled, but inexperienced quarterback. That comes with some pain. He's going to be inconsistent. He'll string together bad throws and bad reads. It just takes some time. That said, I think Quinn playing now probably gives the Browns a better chance to win in 2010. Although, he may be a bit of a liability in the early parts of 2009. And when I say that I mean more so than Derek Anderson.
Had Anderson won the quarterback derby, the Browns might have 1 more win by mid-season. By the end of the season, I'd suspect (barring injury) that Quinn will have surpassed Anderson's somewhat limited ceiling. I believe you've seen the best of Derek Anderson, (about a 6 week period in 2007) and that's not bad. But it's not good enough to build a team around. Even at his peak, he wasn't great. I'm not sure out-dueling Cleo Lemon, Kellen Clemens, and Kyle Boller are the kinds of achievements you put in bold on your resume.
That said this team has to run the ball to be competitive (someone call the cliche police). Jamal Lewis has 2, maybe 3 productive years left in this league. Which is a bit more than most would give him credit for. I'm guessing the last two won't be in Cleveland, but you never know.
James Davis has been encouraging in his learning curve. He presses gaps nicely, creates seams, and picks up blitzes as well as any rookie (which is to say average to below average at best). He seems like a quick study and a hard worker. I think the Browns are going to be happy they have him.
The key here is they have to stay dedicated to the run. They cannot abandon the run regardless of who they play. And Lewis can do that. Davis will help. And I'm interested to see how they use Harrison and Cribbs in the backfield. There's some talent there.
The wide receivers will benefit last by Quinn's getting comfortable on the field. So I don't expect much from them until late in the season, and at that point the local weather is going to hamper how much they can expect to consistently contribute. Quinn works inside out, near to far, however you choose to look at it. Anderson had a lot of success early in his career as a starter by doing just the opposite. Most young quarterbacks try to have the ball in the air for as little time as possible. So, they wait too long to throw, they lean on TE's and backs, throw slants and hitches, you name it. Defenses, in considering that, generally flood the underneath zones with defenders or relentlessly attack the pocket when facing an inexperienced quarterback. Anderson, to his credit, just threw early and threw deep. And that worked great until the defensive Coordinators realized what he was. After the midway point of '07 Anderson saw almost nothing but 2-deep and 4-deep coverages. I only bring that up because Quinn has a real asset on his bench with Derek over there. He can say with authority that when attacking these defenses built to harass a young quarterback you CAN throw over them. And sometimes that's all it takes. Someone who's been there reminding you that you can attack deep. The last thing Quinn wants to do is walk over to the bench and have Derek Anderson tell him that his deep option had man coverage beaten, and he never saw it. That big #3 on the bench is a constant reminder to Quinn that people say he can't throw the deep ball. And I think that works in his favor.
From an offensive line position, I'm a firm believer in leave it alone. Offensive lines only get better by playing together... well by running the ball and playing together. Look at the Giants offensive line. It's one of the best in football. Yet, if they all came up for free agency, only Snee would get top money for his position. Why do you suppose that is? It's because they've basically put out the same 5 guys since 2004. The only change in 5 years has been the left guard 3 seasons ago.
Defense: Ok, here goes. The Browns defense this season is about discipline, gap integrity, fits... Call it what you want, but these guys have to subjugate their own desires and agendas to play this defense. They have to trust they'll be rewarded in the scheme. You have to be able to think to play in this defense. You have to be able to process massive amounts of information... oh and use your instincts. Not everyone has the mental capacity to play defense for Eric Mangini - exeunt Leon Williams, Beau Bell, Shaun Smith, Louis Leonard.
The upside of this defense is a whole lot more quarterback pressure. More non-standard looks up front. And, as time goes by, better and better fits against the run. You saw a glimpse of what this defense can be in the first half of the Vikings game. They'll get better. And as the season goes on, they'll be deeper. By season's end I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. You may not have a 12 sack guy. But you'll have 6 or 7 guys with 5 or more. You're going to see 20 different guys on the field throughout the game. The running games will slow down. And the Browns will be hanging in there with teams against whom they are reputedly over-matched.
So, all told, you've got a team, like most teams, that's going to win 4 and lose 4 just based on personnel and match-ups. It's how they handle the other 8 that make the difference. I'd say they'll probably limp into the bye week at about 3-5 maybe 2-6, go something like 4-4 or 5-3 in the last half, and end up in that 6-10 to 8-8 range. Of course that could be the result of a couple of meaningless wins to close out the year. But I think most Browns fans will take that, if what they see by year's end starts to look like real football.
-jj
Jason, while I agree with what you are saying regarding the defense, this defense still lacks speed and in the NFL all the top defenses have speed, we are very slow still at the defensive ends and linebacker positions and this lack of speed will be exposed when playing teams with more than one offensive playmaker. we also lack what Pitt and Baltimore have which is a top playmaking safety, we have nobody that can do the things a Polamalu or Ed Reed does from the safety position.
While we may scheme to have four or five different players with 4-5 sacks each we do not have that guy on defense that can turn a game around, for the most the guys we have plugged in from the Jets are good NFL players but none are what you would call playmakers or guys a offense have to game plan around, Rogers is the only guy on this defense who is a star.
While I agree with your logic on a offensive line playing together is important I just don't feel we have the talent on this line to be a above average OL, St.Clair, womack and Hadnot are journeyman players and Mack is a rookie who will struggle and Steinbach is a better pass protector than run blocker.
Regarding BQ until he starts taking shots downfield and stop checking down looking for the tight end or slot receiver we are not going to beat any good teams and teams are going to put 8 men in the box and make it difficult to run.
When Robert Royal and Mike Fuerry are the 2 guys you are tageting most of your passes to its going to be a long season, Braylon Edwards is your best player on offense and the guy you have to get the ball to.
Brady had a terrible game and if Derek Anderson would have had a game like BQ had the fans would be screeming yet all I keep hearing is excuses and its BQ's 4th career start.
Jason, while I agree with what you are saying regarding the defense, this defense still lacks speed and in the NFL all the top defenses have speed, we are very slow still at the defensive ends and linebacker positions and this lack of speed will be exposed when playing teams with more than one offensive playmaker. we also lack what Pitt and Baltimore have which is a top playmaking safety, we have nobody that can do the things a Polamalu or Ed Reed does from the safety position.
Two things here: 1.) The Browns have as much speed at the defensive end position as any other 3-4 team - which is to say not much. I'd take Corey Williams over Brett Keisel in a sprint any day of the week. And I'm pretty sure Robaire Smith and Kenyon Coleman could beat Haloti Ngata and Trevor Pryce in a 2x200 relay by about 50 yards. And the Browns linebackers are on par speed-wise with NFL teams. Only Bowens is a real liability there. Barton and Jackson are fine. And Wimbley covers as much ground as anyone at his position. It's not about the speed. 2.) Nobody has safeties like Polamalu and Reed except for the Steelers and Ravens, and yet they manage to play defense at an NFL level... and 8 of them are top 10 defenses. I don't think the answers are that simple.
While we may scheme to have four or five different players with 4-5 sacks each we do not have that guy on defense that can turn a game around, for the most the guys we have plugged in from the Jets are good NFL players but none are what you would call playmakers or guys a offense have to game plan around, Rogers is the only guy on this defense who is a star.
For the most part stars don't make great defenses. Great defenses make stars. There are too few stars in NFL history and too many great defenses for it to work the other way. There are some -- the aforementioned Polamalu, Reed, Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Ronnie Lott, Lawrence Taylor... There are more, but it's a pretty short list. More often than not, it's the impact the defense has on them that makes the difference. Go look at James Harrison's highlight reel from last year and note how many of his sacks were a result of him being unblocked... and Porter before him.
While I agree with your logic on a offensive line playing together is important I just don't feel we have the talent on this line to be a above average OL, St.Clair, womack and Hadnot are journeyman players and Mack is a rookie who will struggle and Steinbach is a better pass protector than run blocker.
Really, once you have your left tackle in place. As long as you're not plugging in a college sophomore, you're probably better off leaving them all where they are, and reaping the benefits. That was Phil Savage's problem... he couldn't stop jerking with it.
Regarding BQ until he starts taking shots downfield and stop checking down looking for the tight end or slot receiver we are not going to beat any good teams and teams are going to put 8 men in the box and make it difficult to run.
When Robert Royal and Mike Fuerry are the 2 guys you are tageting most of your passes to its going to be a long season, Braylon Edwards is your best player on offense and the guy you have to get the ball to.
Brady had a terrible game and if Derek Anderson would have had a game like BQ had the fans would be screeming yet all I keep hearing is excuses and its BQ's 4th career start.
Probably. But the answer's in your statement. You expect that kind of effort and those kind of mistakes from a guy with 4 career starts... not from a guy with 27. It may not be fair, but it's true. Like I said, Anderson probably would've given them a better chance to win Sunday... but not a year from Sunday... or even this November.
-jj
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Jason J
Are you secretly Bill Belichick?
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No Inspecta you are the one full of sh*t, you were on here with 1,000 post from the 1st of the year telling everybody how terrible DA is and how much better BQ would be..............Well Be careful what you ask for........sometimes what you want is not as good as you think you are getting
BQ SUCKED this week and he will continue to suck when he plays a good defensive team, alot of guys acted like he was ready for the Hall of Fame after he dink and dunked on a poor Denver defense last year, then made excuses about his performance in the Buffalo and Houston games when with just a little film on him he SUCKED, now if he goes out this week and plays good against a poor Denver team we will once again hear all the BQ praises, yet you are the first person to say in 2007 we played a bunch of bums.......Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
BQ is not the answer for this team. We should have drafted Sanchez. Now we are stuck with two mediocre QB's, neither of which will help turn this franchise around. What is the answer??????
BQ is not the answer for this team. We should have drafted Sanchez. Now we are stuck with two mediocre QB's, neither of which will help turn this franchise around. What is the answer??????
You writing sanchez into the HOF or something?
He's played 1 nfl game, Retard.
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@inspecta said:
HAHA. that was good, but I can say definitely no, he is not Bill Belichick.JJ has a personality, and that there ends all comparisons.
Well done.
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Jason J
Are you secretly Bill Belichick?
Jason J
Are you secretly Bill Belichick?
No... but he is generally what I'm referring to when I use the phrase "higher power"
-jj
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Jason, while I agree with what you are saying regarding the defense, this defense still lacks speed and in the NFL all the top defenses have speed, we are very slow still at the defensive ends and linebacker positions and this lack of speed will be exposed when playing teams with more than one offensive playmaker. we also lack what Pitt and Baltimore have which is a top playmaking safety, we have nobody that can do the things a Polamalu or Ed Reed does from the safety position.
Two things here: 1.) The Browns have as much speed at the defensive end position as any other 3-4 team - which is to say not much. I'd take Corey Williams over Brett Keisel in a sprint any day of the week. And I'm pretty sure Robaire Smith and Kenyon Coleman could beat Haloti Ngata and Trevor Pryce in a 2x200 relay by about 50 yards. And the Browns linebackers are on par speed-wise with NFL teams. Only Bowens is a real liability there. Barton and Jackson are fine. And Wimbley covers as much ground as anyone at his position. It's not about the speed. 2.) Nobody has safeties like Polamalu and Reed except for the Steelers and Ravens, and yet they manage to play defense at an NFL level... and 8 of them are top 10 defenses. I don't think the answers are that simple.
While we may scheme to have four or five different players with 4-5 sacks each we do not have that guy on defense that can turn a game around, for the most the guys we have plugged in from the Jets are good NFL players but none are what you would call playmakers or guys a offense have to game plan around, Rogers is the only guy on this defense who is a star.
For the most part stars don't make great defenses. Great defenses make stars. There are too few stars in NFL history and too many great defenses for it to work the other way. There are some -- the aforementioned Polamalu, Reed, Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Ronnie Lott, Lawrence Taylor... There are more, but it's a pretty short list. More often than not, it's the impact the defense has on them that makes the difference. Go look at James Harrison's highlight reel from last year and note how many of his sacks were a result of him being unblocked... and Porter before him.
While I agree with your logic on a offensive line playing together is important I just don't feel we have the talent on this line to be a above average OL, St.Clair, womack and Hadnot are journeyman players and Mack is a rookie who will struggle and Steinbach is a better pass protector than run blocker.
Really, once you have your left tackle in place. As long as you're not plugging in a college sophomore, you're probably better off leaving them all where they are, and reaping the benefits. That was Phil Savage's problem... he couldn't stop jerking with it.
Regarding BQ until he starts taking shots downfield and stop checking down looking for the tight end or slot receiver we are not going to beat any good teams and teams are going to put 8 men in the box and make it difficult to run.
When Robert Royal and Mike Fuerry are the 2 guys you are tageting most of your passes to its going to be a long season, Braylon Edwards is your best player on offense and the guy you have to get the ball to.
Brady had a terrible game and if Derek Anderson would have had a game like BQ had the fans would be screeming yet all I keep hearing is excuses and its BQ's 4th career start.
Probably. But the answer's in your statement. You expect that kind of effort and those kind of mistakes from a guy with 4 career starts... not from a guy with 27. It may not be fair, but it's true. Like I said, Anderson probably would've given them a better chance to win Sunday... but not a year from Sunday... or even this November.
-jj
Really, once you have your left tackle in place. As long as you're not plugging in a college sophomore, you're probably better off leaving them all where they are, and reaping the benefits. That was Phil Savage's problem... he couldn't stop jerking with it.
-jj
Amen. Let the OL run first.
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Lets hear it about the Browns, your thoughts on the QB, if the defense is for real, our RB situation, our WR realization, and our OL studs [?]......
Discuss....
Lets hear it about the Browns, your thoughts on the QB, if the defense is for real, our RB situation, our WR realization, and our OL studs [?]......
Discuss....
Thanks a lot Vegas...I really appreciate you asking my opinion...ummm....what?....I'm not on the list??? WTF!!!
To be honest, I think JJ, Alo and JJ really nailed it. Shep...well, his QB stuff is always soooo...QB-y.
Anyway, here is my one cent (a little short on funds this week):
QB
While I must admit BQ did not scintillate, I didn't expect him to. He is in his 4th start, with a newly put together OL, only 1 established WR (who is coming off the dropsies), and had less than optimum reps (according to experts) to establish a rhythm with any of the starters. Add in that he was playing one of the best defenses in the NFL...and was very obviously on a limited play-call game plan....and you can see where this was going to go. The most important thing that I got out of game 1 is that he DID NOT GET RATTLED. He kept with it, plugged along, and although he made mistakes, he didn't melt down.
What this tells me is that we have a QB that is going to LEARN from his mistakes and move forward. He is going to DEVELOP instead of regress. And, he is going to be a LEADER. Those 3 things are why I think he is going to end up being a decent, if not darn good, starter in this league. It will take time, and we may not see it translate to a ton of wins (maybe a string of them late in the season) until next year...but again, this is a TEAM game, and we have a lot of other areas (WR/RB) that need to be addressed as well.
DEFENSE
I actually LOVED what I saw out of the defense. I continue to be one of the few who think a lot of the defensive woes last year were due in at least part to the 3 and out, turnover prone offense. The Browns still have the HEAVIEST DEFENSE in the league. That means they will likely wear down quicker than most, and need to be rested to play effectively. A high risk, fast scoring offense is anathema to them.
This past week, we saw them CONTROL AP for the first half, and even after the 3rd Q, they had given up only 76 yards on 21 carries (below 4 y/c) by the best RB in the league. I will take that every time. In fact, if you just take that long run away, they had allowed only 116 on 24 carries, again, respectable vs Minnesota.
Add into that the fact we recorded 4 sacks in only 26 pass plays....and that is not even counting the number of knockdowns. This defense is going to put pressure on the QB, and as they gel, they will be better and better against the run. We still need to upgrade in some areas (Barton is short term), and depth is still a major concern, but overall this D is looking good. As I noted before, this is a HUGE defense, so as the offense matures and improves the control of the clock, expect this defense to improve exponentially.
OLB's
Staying with the D, I would like to point out that we had not one, but MULTIPLE WIMBLEY SIGHTINGS!!! I had argued all year last year and over the off-season that his biggest problem was playing next to an out of position NT for a RDE. That the lack of a true DE was forcing him to face LT's on a regular basis, and putting in a no win situation. Along comes R.Smith, and Wimbley gets a sack and multiple pressures. I see this happening all year. I also enjoyed some of the stunting going on. Bowens also had a nice game, but I think he is little more than a place holder for either Hall or the next guy we bring in.
WR's
This is an area that only time and reps will tell. I am not sure if it was the game plan or what, but the total lack of Furrey (until the last drive) and MoMass concerned me. Yes, BE only had one catch, but he was still a weapon (the pass interference/almost TD comes to mind). I think that BE will get more action as the year goes on and the OL gels and the game plans open up.
OL
Again, as everyone else has pointed out, a great OL is usually a bunch of guys that have been together for a long time. We have not had even close to the same guys. This year again, 3 out of 5 are new. If these guys get a chance to work together for a few years, or we only replace 1 at a time, we should be fine. The left side (and presumable the C) should be set...now we just need to see how the right side works out over the course of the year.
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Jason, while I agree with what you are saying regarding the defense, this defense still lacks speed and in the NFL all the top defenses have speed, we are very slow still at the defensive ends and linebacker positions and this lack of speed will be exposed when playing teams with more than one offensive playmaker. we also lack what Pitt and Baltimore have which is a top playmaking safety, we have nobody that can do the things a Polamalu or Ed Reed does from the safety position.
Two things here: 1.) The Browns have as much speed at the defensive end position as any other 3-4 team - which is to say not much. I'd take Corey Williams over Brett Keisel in a sprint any day of the week. And I'm pretty sure Robaire Smith and Kenyon Coleman could beat Haloti Ngata and Trevor Pryce in a 2x200 relay by about 50 yards. And the Browns linebackers are on par speed-wise with NFL teams. Only Bowens is a real liability there. Barton and Jackson are fine. And Wimbley covers as much ground as anyone at his position. It's not about the speed. 2.) Nobody has safeties like Polamalu and Reed except for the Steelers and Ravens, and yet they manage to play defense at an NFL level... and 8 of them are top 10 defenses. I don't think the answers are that simple.
While we may scheme to have four or five different players with 4-5 sacks each we do not have that guy on defense that can turn a game around, for the most the guys we have plugged in from the Jets are good NFL players but none are what you would call playmakers or guys a offense have to game plan around, Rogers is the only guy on this defense who is a star.
For the most part stars don't make great defenses. Great defenses make stars. There are too few stars in NFL history and too many great defenses for it to work the other way. There are some -- the aforementioned Polamalu, Reed, Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, Ronnie Lott, Lawrence Taylor... There are more, but it's a pretty short list. More often than not, it's the impact the defense has on them that makes the difference. Go look at James Harrison's highlight reel from last year and note how many of his sacks were a result of him being unblocked... and Porter before him.
While I agree with your logic on a offensive line playing together is important I just don't feel we have the talent on this line to be a above average OL, St.Clair, womack and Hadnot are journeyman players and Mack is a rookie who will struggle and Steinbach is a better pass protector than run blocker.
Really, once you have your left tackle in place. As long as you're not plugging in a college sophomore, you're probably better off leaving them all where they are, and reaping the benefits. That was Phil Savage's problem... he couldn't stop jerking with it.
Regarding BQ until he starts taking shots downfield and stop checking down looking for the tight end or slot receiver we are not going to beat any good teams and teams are going to put 8 men in the box and make it difficult to run.
When Robert Royal and Mike Fuerry are the 2 guys you are tageting most of your passes to its going to be a long season, Braylon Edwards is your best player on offense and the guy you have to get the ball to.
Brady had a terrible game and if Derek Anderson would have had a game like BQ had the fans would be screeming yet all I keep hearing is excuses and its BQ's 4th career start.
Probably. But the answer's in your statement. You expect that kind of effort and those kind of mistakes from a guy with 4 career starts... not from a guy with 27. It may not be fair, but it's true. Like I said, Anderson probably would've given them a better chance to win Sunday... but not a year from Sunday... or even this November.
-jj
Probably. But the answer's in your statement. You expect that kind of effort and those kind of mistakes from a guy with 4 career starts... not from a guy with 27. It may not be fair, but it's true. Like I said, Anderson probably would've given them a better chance to win Sunday... but not a year from Sunday... or even this November.
-jj
When Brady Quinn played against Denver last year he did no with much less practice than he did now and still looked great. So BQ being a rookie excuse seems illogical. And Anderson on his day could have given Brown offense a major boost with his arm. Let us not forget that it was with Derek Anderson as the QB did we manage to defeat NY Giants. Who knows if he could have had a repeat performance with him and BE being on the same page and opening up the running lanes for JL with the deep throws.
This is not a Quinn bashing post and Quinn does need time, but the conservative play calling is making me frustrated. giving Quinn the dink and dunk plays is going to make life more difficult for us. The sooner he starts making those throws the better it is. So what if Quinn fails ? shouldn't this time be about judging Quinn and see if he is a fast and good learner ?
If a new guy is the way to go, i dont want to wait for 2,3 seasons before we come to that conclusion. Mangini only has 3 years to show what he can do and if he cant exploit Quinn's talent or judge him then we are in for some trouble.
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Probably. But the answer's in your statement. You expect that kind of effort and those kind of mistakes from a guy with 4 career starts... not from a guy with 27. It may not be fair, but it's true. Like I said, Anderson probably would've given them a better chance to win Sunday... but not a year from Sunday... or even this November.
-jj
When Brady Quinn played against Denver last year he did no with much less practice than he did now and still looked great. So BQ being a rookie excuse seems illogical. And Anderson on his day could have given Brown offense a major boost with his arm. Let us not forget that it was with Derek Anderson as the QB did we manage to defeat NY Giants. Who knows if he could have had a repeat performance with him and BE being on the same page and opening up the running lanes for JL with the deep throws.
This is not a Quinn bashing post and Quinn does need time, but the conservative play calling is making me frustrated. giving Quinn the dink and dunk plays is going to make life more difficult for us. The sooner he starts making those throws the better it is. So what if Quinn fails ? shouldn't this time be about judging Quinn and see if he is a fast and good learner ?
If a new guy is the way to go, i dont want to wait for 2,3 seasons before we come to that conclusion. Mangini only has 3 years to show what he can do and if he cant exploit Quinn's talent or judge him then we are in for some trouble.
When Brady Quinn played against Denver last year he did no with much less practice than he did now and still looked great. So BQ being a rookie excuse seems illogical. And Anderson on his day could have given Brown offense a major boost with his arm. Let us not forget that it was with Derek Anderson as the QB did we manage to defeat NY Giants. Who knows if he could have had a repeat performance with him and BE being on the same page and opening up the running lanes for JL with the deep throws.
This is not a Quinn bashing post and Quinn does need time, but the conservative play calling is making me frustrated. giving Quinn the dink and dunk plays is going to make life more difficult for us. The sooner he starts making those throws the better it is. So what if Quinn fails ? shouldn't this time be about judging Quinn and see if he is a fast and good learner ?
If a new guy is the way to go, i dont want to wait for 2,3 seasons before we come to that conclusion. Mangini only has 3 years to show what he can do and if he cant exploit Quinn's talent or judge him then we are in for some trouble.
It's really not illogical. If it was, every QB that had a good start would never have growing pains, and that just isn't how it works in the NFL. Also, DEN D last year and the Vikings D aren't even in the same league. You really can't compare the two situations very much.
Maybe DA would have given CLE a boost with his arm, but maybe he wouldn't have. All depends on how the D setup it's coverages and plan w/ DA at the helm. It's also not like strong armed QBs have had much more success against MIN than any other QB. The big name QBs that faced that Vikings D last year had their share of struggles too.
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..Tell me what defense other than a poor Broncos defense has Brady done anything against?
Can't have it both ways. You're ridiculing excuses as to why Quinn didn't play better, then excusing his good play away by chalking it up to bad defenses.
The bottom line is its too early to tell on Quinn. If Quinn has a good game against Denver, there may be reason to hope, but still too early to tell.
The bottom line is its too early to tell on Quinn.
As long as he continues to suck, BQ Nation will always claim "it's too early to tell"
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