Pluto: How I've Heard The Browns Are Rebuilding Offense For Watson
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Guys who could run but could stand in the pocket, read a defense and complete passes.
Those are the toughest QB's to beat. They read the defense, take the snap and continue to read the D, if their target(s) get open, they fire it, if the internal clock says Time To Go, they run really fast. Bernie had all that stuff right up to the point of taking off and run.
This is what I want from Watson. Play the pocket...but don't die there. Get out, run, get down, get OB or as Sam Rutigliano would say, simply throw it away.
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I still think to win it all in the NFL, you have to have a QB who can win from the pocket. Doesn't mean that he can't run if need be, but if he can't pass well and read defenses well from the pocket, he will eventually get exposed.
John Elway, Steve Young. Tough guys to beat.
John Elway, Steve Young. Tough guys to beat.
They were. They also retired almost 25 years ago. I'd also argue that for the times, those guys were running QB's. That was a huge part of what made them so dynamic.
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They were. They also retired almost 25 years ago. I'd also argue that for the times, those guys were running QB's. That was a huge part of what made them so dynamic.
You would argue?
NO WAY! ?
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Guys who could run but could stand in the pocket, read a defense and complete passes.
Once Elway and Young figured that part out, they won Super Bowls.
Nicely put! Let's hope the Big Man on the blind side of QB (Wills) makes standing in the pocket doable. If he does, I love what's possible for Watson.
Sometimes we need to remember we're only as good as what the organization puts in place for their QBs. Once upon a time a ton of money was invested in the Titanic - only to steer that sucker right into a huge glacier. "Yeah but it was dark outside!" Try to imagine how dark it can get inside the pocket if you don't have the right man on the edge protecting the edge the blind side of QB. The good news is this QB only has 1 blind side. It IS Cleveland so I do have to say the outrageous.
All those years we had a HOF career unfolding at Left Tackle, our FO couldn't tell the difference between a Brandon Weeden and a Russell Wilson leading up to the draft.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
You would argue?
NO WAY! ?
Just doing my thing
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Guys who could run but could stand in the pocket, read a defense and complete passes.
Once Elway and Young figured that part out, they won Super Bowls.
Nicely put! Let's hope the Big Man on the blind side of QB (Wills) makes standing in the pocket doable. If he does, I love what's possible for Watson.
Sometimes we need to remember we're only as good as what the organization puts in place for their QBs. Once upon a time a ton of money was invested in the Titanic - only to steer that sucker right into a huge glacier. "Yeah but it was dark outside!" Try to imagine how dark it can get inside the pocket if you don't have the right man on the edge protecting the edge the blind side of QB. The good news is this QB only has 1 blind side. It IS Cleveland so I do have to say the outrageous.
All those years we had a HOF career unfolding at Left Tackle, our FO couldn't tell the difference between a Brandon Weeden and a Russell Wilson leading up to the draft.
Nicely put! Let's hope the Big Man on the blind side of QB (Wills) makes standing in the pocket doable. If he does, I love what's possible for Watson.
Sometimes we need to remember we're only as good as what the organization puts in place for their QBs. Once upon a time a ton of money was invested in the Titanic - only to steer that sucker right into a huge glacier. "Yeah but it was dark outside!" Try to imagine how dark it can get inside the pocket if you don't have the right man on the edge protecting the edge the blind side of QB. The good news is this QB only has 1 blind side. It IS Cleveland so I do have to say the outrageous.
All those years we had a HOF career unfolding at Left Tackle, our FO couldn't tell the difference between a Brandon Weeden and a Russell Wilson leading up to the draft.
We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills. Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens. Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all.
Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better. Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position. In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play.
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Nicely put! Let's hope the Big Man on the blind side of QB (Wills) makes standing in the pocket doable. If he does, I love what's possible for Watson.
Sometimes we need to remember we're only as good as what the organization puts in place for their QBs. Once upon a time a ton of money was invested in the Titanic - only to steer that sucker right into a huge glacier. "Yeah but it was dark outside!" Try to imagine how dark it can get inside the pocket if you don't have the right man on the edge protecting the edge the blind side of QB. The good news is this QB only has 1 blind side. It IS Cleveland so I do have to say the outrageous.
All those years we had a HOF career unfolding at Left Tackle, our FO couldn't tell the difference between a Brandon Weeden and a Russell Wilson leading up to the draft.
We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills. Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens. Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all.
Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better. Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position. In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play.
We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills. Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens. Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all.
Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better. Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position. In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play.
Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills. Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens. Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all.
Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better. Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position. In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play.
Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
I like it for the reasons you mentioned. If you don’t like it you are probably opposed to taking out an actual pass catching scoring threat and/or limits what you can call.
Watt is a hustle sack kinda guy…how many times over the years has he got to our guy just by chasing and making a play after the initial pass rush move was shut down? Make him go around a 6’8” guy- maybe the extra second makes the difference. They just gave Highsmith a bunch of money maybe they think he is comparable to Watt at this point in Watts career. Tough matchup probably on either side
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We have four games on our schedule (there will probably be more) where the most important player on the field for us will be Jed Wills. Thinking about Steelers and the Ravens. Watt/Highsmith and whatever 5/6 guys the Ravens throw at him…if he holds up (without getting called for holding) we can win them all.
Now I couldn’t tell you how many times (wasn’t on this forum yet) about 10/12 years ago where I’d argue with fellow Browns fans trying to explain we don’t need 5 first round pick offensive lineman to make a bad QB better. Nothing was fixing the train wrecks we had at that position. In fact one year I hoped we would draft 4/5 QBs maybe we’d find one that could deliver good solid play.
Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
Jones probably has hands. How good they are is the question. I don't think he has ever caught a pass. Maybe in HS or something like that.
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Thanks SdB - You nailed it!
I have an idea that might not sound good at first. Here it is though. I think lining up the 6'8" 375lb former high basketball stud (Dawand Jones) to the left of Wills in various situations can open up some nice opportunities. You know he's probably got good hands if we ever used him as dual purpose 2nd TE. It would be pretty fun to see him and Wills doing some double teams in pass pro or in run blocking. It might be a great package to catch someone off guard with early on. Worth a try????
Jones probably has hands. How good they are is the question. I don't think he has ever caught a pass. Maybe in HS or something like that.
Jones probably has hands. How good they are is the question. I don't think he has ever caught a pass. Maybe in HS or something like that.
Usually guys that are productive BIG men on the basketball court from constantly catching passes in traffic - don't have stone hands or struggle with hand-eye coordination. For example, Antonio Gates and Tony Gonzales. Having said that, I appreciate you reminding me there's always an exception to usually...
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Watson told Stefanski in the off-season that he’d like more autonomy on the field, and his coaches agreed.
Kevin. get the play call in, on time to do so.
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"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"
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That's what I like to hear. Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.
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"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"
----
That's what I like to hear. Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.
"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"
----
That's what I like to hear. Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.
Very good point! The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend? Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort.
I'd like to see some improvements to the receiving routes in the passing tree. The whole design of it all hasn't really impressed me yet. That said, I kind of dig the addition of Musgrave to the offensive coaching staff. I have a feeling we'll see some improvements in the design of the offense - which would help make the play-calling a little better and easier IMO.
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"the biggest thing is moving guys around and being able to do all types of things"
----
That's what I like to hear. Move guys and call audibles to put the offense in better position to be successful against the defense that you see right in front of you.
Very good point! The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend? Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort.
I'd like to see some improvements to the receiving routes in the passing tree. The whole design of it all hasn't really impressed me yet. That said, I kind of dig the addition of Musgrave to the offensive coaching staff. I have a feeling we'll see some improvements in the design of the offense - which would help make the play-calling a little better and easier IMO.
The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend? Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort.
Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required. Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder. And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.
We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache). He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down. So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle. To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players. I mean, this is the BIG leagues. Get big league players.
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The scary thing is - why are we so late to this trend? Sticking with a formation against a defensive formation/alignment your offense struggles against is square pegging a round whole way too much for comfort.
Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required. Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder. And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.
We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache). He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down. So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle. To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players. I mean, this is the BIG leagues. Get big league players.
Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required. Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder. And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.
We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache). He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down. So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle. To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players. I mean, this is the BIG leagues. Get big league players.
I like the points you made so thanks! Having said that, I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski. IMO, it's all in the week of preparation. When you practice, you have your scout team defense expose your offense to formations the Browns may want to be checking out of in the game the coming week. Expose them to the situations. You talk about it in offensive meetings and position group meetings. Expose the offense to formations and alignments they may be seeing on Sunday throughout the week. By the end of the week, the coach will have a good idea of what offensive formations and plays he's comfortable switching to; and which ones they're not ready for yet. If they study opponent's tendencies - they'll have a good idea about what they're gonna see to prepare for during practice. Nothing better than consistently seeing a team that looks well prepared on Sundays. In 1986 with Lindy Infante, there wasn't an alignment the Browns couldn't audible against. That was fun to watch.
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Perhaps we didn't have the 'field general' that gave the coaches the confidence required. Jacoby did a nice job for us but he was just a placeholder. And certainly Watson didn't have the time in the system to be doing much of that.
We had a coach some time ago who didn't want the QB to be calling audibles (not sure if it goes all the way back to Kosar & Belleyache). He said, Inevitably, someone doesn't get the new assignment right and the play breaks down. So just go ahead and run the play called in the huddle. To me, that means you don't have good/smart enough players. I mean, this is the BIG leagues. Get big league players.
I like the points you made so thanks! Having said that, I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski. IMO, it's all in the week of preparation. When you practice, you have your scout team defense expose your offense to formations the Browns may want to be checking out of in the game the coming week. Expose them to the situations. You talk about it in offensive meetings and position group meetings. Expose the offense to formations and alignments they may be seeing on Sunday throughout the week. By the end of the week, the coach will have a good idea of what offensive formations and plays he's comfortable switching to; and which ones they're not ready for yet. If they study opponent's tendencies - they'll have a good idea about what they're gonna see to prepare for during practice. Nothing better than consistently seeing a team that looks well prepared on Sundays. In 1986 with Lindy Infante, there wasn't an alignment the Browns couldn't audible against. That was fun to watch.
I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski.
And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'. Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker. I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball. Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing. At least that's how I interpreted it.
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I was thinking more in terms about all 3 years we've been at this with Stefanski.
And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'. Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker. I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball. Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing. At least that's how I interpreted it.
And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'. Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker. I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball. Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Yeah, I think you're right with that. I think there were parts of Baker's game Stef liked but not enough to build something up with long term together. Like the nice job Stefanski did with Jacoby Brissett - he also got a TD:INT ratio of 26:8 out of Baker the year the Browns went 11-5 in 2020. This past year, he helped Jacoby lead an offense that averaged about 28 points a game for a long stretch of his 11 starts. In those ways with those 2 QBs, he leaned heavily on the running game and kept things safe with the QBs (like you alluded to with Stef keeping the game out of Baker's hands). It's not a balanced attack, which makes it tough to compete with the elite QBs/passing games that go deep into the playoffs. Once they get up on you by 2 TDs - you realize what you're missing to be at that level.
Today, the Browns have a QB they heavily invested in because they really believe he's that 'field general' you speak of. He's a guy that led Houston to the playoffs in his first years 2 years of the 3 he started there. This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB. I'm really hoping they've done this.
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And I don't have the answer....unless, it still harkened back to having the right 'field general'. Perhaps he wasn't comfortable with Baker. I mean, we observed that when the Browns got up on an opponent Stef tried to keep the game out of Baker's hands using every RB he had available to keep the clock moving and keep Baker from throwing the ball. Even when an opponent began to narrow the score, he did everything he could to keep Baker from throwing. At least that's how I interpreted it.
Yeah, I think you're right with that. I think there were parts of Baker's game Stef liked but not enough to build something up with long term together. Like the nice job Stefanski did with Jacoby Brissett - he also got a TD:INT ratio of 26:8 out of Baker the year the Browns went 11-5 in 2020. This past year, he helped Jacoby lead an offense that averaged about 28 points a game for a long stretch of his 11 starts. In those ways with those 2 QBs, he leaned heavily on the running game and kept things safe with the QBs (like you alluded to with Stef keeping the game out of Baker's hands). It's not a balanced attack, which makes it tough to compete with the elite QBs/passing games that go deep into the playoffs. Once they get up on you by 2 TDs - you realize what you're missing to be at that level.
Today, the Browns have a QB they heavily invested in because they really believe he's that 'field general' you speak of. He's a guy that led Houston to the playoffs in his first years 2 years of the 3 he started there. This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB. I'm really hoping they've done this.
This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB. I'm really hoping they've done this.
I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes. And that's a big part of the passing game. Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball. We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.
I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots. I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play." Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands. - We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.
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This off season was a golden opportunity for them to design the passing game around the QB. I'm really hoping they've done this.
I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes. And that's a big part of the passing game. Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball. We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.
I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots. I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play." Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands. - We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.
I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes. And that's a big part of the passing game. Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball. We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.
I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots. I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play." Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands. - We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.
I totally agree, nothing beats the lens from above or up in the stands. That's a great idea about Tia breaking down the plays! Is this the year it finally all comes together for us?
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I know that you're concerned about the receiving routes. And that's a big part of the passing game. Without being at the game it's difficult to tell what the receivers are doing since TV follows the ball. We get a glimpse now and then with a different angle replay but we don't get a flavor of what the receivers as a group are doing.
I remember, a million years ago, when my best friend Vikings fan was alive, and we were at New England watching the Vikings play the Patriots. I remember leaning in to him and saying, "Bud, Chris Carter jogs his routes unless he's the target of the play." Now, that's not really what you or I are concerned about, but it's something that you don't see unless you're in the stands. - We need tia to break down the plays with overhead shots...like he likes to do.
I totally agree, nothing beats the lens from above or up in the stands. That's a great idea about Tia breaking down the plays! Is this the year it finally all comes together for us?
Is this the year it finally all comes together for us?
Man I hope so. I used to say that I wanna see us win a super bowl before I die...but I'm not going to say that any more because of the recent passing of long time Browns fans from this board and I just now feel that that is kinda' selfish of me. I mean, why me and not Tour, Gipper, Stan, etc.? So, I would now say 'I hope so' for all Browns fans around the world. Why not this year?
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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