The 2023 season film studies. Thread of questions and answers.
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Speaking of TEs, l heard on the radio broadcast Stefanski rolled with a few 3 TE sets during the game. That was encouraging to hear because he does neat and interesting things with TEs.
I tend to think he likes versatility in the position too and at times has those guys do fullback-y type stuff.
If you get the chance, how’d all that look to ya? It was good to see Njoku get a few solid gainers and the TD from Bryant, but l like the nitty gritty on how those guys get involved in the blocking scheme too and curious how you think they held up?
Speaking of TEs, l heard on the radio broadcast Stefanski rolled with a few 3 TE sets during the game. That was encouraging to hear because he does neat and interesting things with TEs.
I tend to think he likes versatility in the position too and at times has those guys do fullback-y type stuff.
If you get the chance, how’d all that look to ya? It was good to see Njoku get a few solid gainers and the TD from Bryant, but l like the nitty gritty on how those guys get involved in the blocking scheme too and curious how you think they held up?
I specifically remember two different plays, one on a pin and pull, the other what looked like a simple iso - where Njoku really did a great job on his assignment.
He has come a long way from his first 2 seasons where he was an absolute liability as a blocker.
I'll have more details on how the TEs looked later when I get to go over the film.
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It's fairly obvious this team is going to want to use more empty sets. The belief(s) are that ...
1) Our QB is capable of maximizing the personnel and designs
2) checking into the right read
3) spreading defenses out horizontal, and making life a bit easier on said QB with coverage declarations.
4) Still threatens defenses with mobility from the QB position either design or scramble.
But in order to fully harness the talent Njoku can offer, he needs to get up to speed and in sync with Deshaun on how they want to run Y option against LB's.
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This is very straight forward.
- Logan Wilson starts inside leverage on Njoku.
- At the snap, DW checks the middle field depth and leverage.
- David runs the stick, and breaks it out as Logan shuffles laterally to match his movement from IN to OUT.
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But we run into problems.
- When Wilson matched David in to out, he did so that made Njoku breaking this off the LB"s initial inside leverage a non-starter for a throw. Just isn't going to happen barring a complete force from our QB.
- DW really held onto this read for about as long as he could. Because in empty, it's A, B GONE. You're not afforded extra time from protection. While they aren't the best duo of pass rushers in the NFL, Hendrickson and Hubbard are certainly one of the better ones you'll find though.
- The length of time Watson held onto this leads me to believe he was expecting David to break this off and return back inside. But his hips are open and parallellwith the sidelines. So he isn't making it back in time before pressure arrives.
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This is what the play looks like at a distance.
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By the time David begins to realize he has to seperate and make himself a target back to the interior, DW has already going to double check the MFS and the weak hook defender.
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It's too late for this route to recover now. Watson has his target and his elbow is rising to start his motion.
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Sadly pressure arrived just as Watson released and the ball had a touch too much on it.
This is the connection that, IMHO, needs the most work right now. Because it's the one that will involve the shorter throws, the one's that move chains and attack the weakest coverage unit on an NFL field (backers, maybe safeties) But the same connection that, depending on sight adjusts, can also threaten a defense at all 3 levels. I mentioned Y-option. That's the call which Tony Romo and Jason Witten were the absolute best at in the NFL for quite a long time. It's imperative that both Watson and Njoku spend whatever time necessary to help jump start this chemistry in that sort of direction. I know David has the ability to produce the same 'suddenness' in his footwork that Witten did. It's a matter of mastering the motion, and most importantly, seeing and understanding things the same way your QB does. He kept going to his outside shoulder and lateral far too long, as I see it. Which is why Deshaun kept waiting on him to break back inside like a guy waiting for a bus to arrive at the terminal.
This is the look that could get David 80 targets this season. And given how the weather was Sunday, this is the pairing I was hoping to see the most of. But it's clear there's still quite a way to go before we've reached that next level. Good news, it's all on film now and at full speed. I've little doubt this was the first thing gone over in meetings today.
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This was the pin & pull with Njoku I was talking about.
You have a seal from David.
A pin from Jed
A reach/scoop from Pocic
A pull from Bito
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Good engagement not losing his base here. Working to Hendrickson's outside shoulder, then turning him back inside while driving to drive him up and lateral.
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GREAT look here. David gets low, a launch from his back feet into the chest of Trey and completely knocks him off his footing. Meanwhile Jed and Pocic have won their assignments inside. Bito is clear to take on the DB, who is likely just pissing down his leg since he can't cut outside the tackle box.
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Creates a lane so big, you could drive a truck through it. Njoku continues to hold his block here, not even bothering to look back for Chubb to clear the LOS. That's playing until the whistle with all you've got. Given the initial lateral movement of this design, this is absolutely textbook stealing and clearing of an extra gap. In this case, the C gap is the intended target, and damn did Chubb hit it with authoritah.
David has really blossomed in his blocking abilities under this coaching staff. Credit to Stef, Coach McCartney and Coach Callahan. They've helped him develop from his abysmal 2017/2018. It's not like he was taking on some sort of slouch here; Trey Hendrickson is arguably a top 10 player at his position. If David keeps this up, he'll be one of the better blocking TE's in the NFL.
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This is something I was pretty effusive pointing out about Hudson and our tackles in the Pre-season. Not only ours, but a lot of the games I was watching in August.
It needs to be put a stop to, there are already enough rules that punish defenses for bad offenses. I figured it wouldn't be long before someone much more prominent noticed this and spoke up.
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Look at where the RT is set pre-snap.
That's ridiculous.
Look at where the RT is set pre-snap.
That's ridiculous.
He lined up like that all night and I don't remember KC getting flagged even once for it. The advantage of that formation almost has that side already hinged off before the snap. Inevitably someone is going to say "yeah but you could see his big toe is pretty much even with the Guard's heel/hip on a lot of those." Give me a break because the guy wears at least a size 15 shoe/cleat. The officials need to apply the spirit of the rule in their judgement on something like this. Was there an unfair advantage gained? Well, the reason they lined him up like that was to put their Tackle in much better position to shield that edge vrs a force like Hutchinson. They got away with it all night. IMO, that was just as bad as (if not worse) than all of the false starts the officiating crew enabled. The Lions responded with some x-stunts via crashing Hutchinson down inside to challenge spacing/positioning of the OL on that side. Looked pretty effective to me.
If the Browns line up like that in Pittsburgh on Monday - I can almost guarantee they'll get flagged for not having enough men on the line of scrimmage.
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You see LT's do that all the time. It does make a huge difference. It basically gives the LT a 2 step ground gain on the DE. Three if you count the left, right, then left again, or R,L,then R again for the other tackle.
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It's a false start, plain and simple. Ball isn't live and you're in a kick step? 10 yards, run it back.
No point in home field advantage from noise when you get away with shit like this. Because Oline is who that home field affects more than any other position group.
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It's a false start, plain and simple. Ball isn't live and you're in a kick step? 10 yards, run it back.
No point in home field advantage from noise when you get away with shit like this. Because Oline is who that home field affects more than any other position group.
It's a false start, plain and simple. Ball isn't live and you're in a kick step? 10 yards, run it back.
Looks like Dean addressed this/this week.. Taylor stated that he moves knowing the snap count ? But they want the formation legal this week.
For tackles to be properly be aligned at the line of scrimmage, a part of their body must be breaking an imaginary line from the center’s belt. Typically, the helmet would be the furthest bit forward for the linemen. In Week 1, that was missed more often than is acceptable.
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The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you. "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." Paul Brown
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I have seen O-lines lining up in a concave manner for a good while. Could be concave depending on how you look at it. I guess the emphasis on protecting the QB has led to this. Today you see tackles lined up with the helmet in line with their guards butt.
The league has allowed this so if they are going to start enforcing, they need to give the OT 1 verbal warning. I know they do this with edge rushers if it looks to the ref they are starting to push the boundary of the neutral zone.
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@tiamat63I appreciate Brett taking a stab at this.
Firstly - VERY bold of him to assume we're ALL adults.
Secondly - I never played Oline, so I'm even learning something a bit new here. At least, in terms of the 'loophole' mentioned. Which, I'm no fan of loopholes. Taxes or football.
Thirdly - In his very video, which I only watched a few minutes of, the torso itself cannot come forward on reset, yet it's incredibly difficult to measure that in real time. Now I'm understanding of the back foot positioning, but I also know, it's damn near impossible to continue this play without being so microscopic that we end up feeling like it's arguing what the definition of 'is' is. Especially when you consider how a line judge qualifies the back foot being planted on a kick step vs the snap timing and ball being live.
So either the NFL goes full authoritarian on this, which I'm no fan of. Or they end up letting too much of it go, which I feel we saw quite a bit pre-season and Week 1.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. But if the NFL has put all 32 teams on notice, then obviously they feel strongly enough about it that we're swimming in those "pressing it too much" type of waters.
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@tiamat63I appreciate Brett taking a stab at this.
Firstly - VERY bold of him to assume we're ALL adults.
Secondly - I never played Oline, so I'm even learning something a bit new here. At least, in terms of the 'loophole' mentioned. Which, I'm no fan of loopholes. Taxes or football.
Thirdly - In his very video, which I only watched a few minutes of, the torso itself cannot come forward on reset, yet it's incredibly difficult to measure that in real time. Now I'm understanding of the back foot positioning, but I also know, it's damn near impossible to continue this play without being so microscopic that we end up feeling like it's arguing what the definition of 'is' is. Especially when you consider how a line judge qualifies the back foot being planted on a kick step vs the snap timing and ball being live.
So either the NFL goes full authoritarian on this, which I'm no fan of. Or they end up letting too much of it go, which I feel we saw quite a bit pre-season and Week 1.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. But if the NFL has put all 32 teams on notice, then obviously they feel strongly enough about it that we're swimming in those "pressing it too much" type of waters.
I appreciate Brett taking a stab at this.
Firstly - VERY bold of him to assume we're ALL adults.
Secondly - I never played Oline, so I'm even learning something a bit new here. At least, in terms of the 'loophole' mentioned. Which, I'm no fan of loopholes. Taxes or football.
Thirdly - In his very video, which I only watched a few minutes of, the torso itself cannot come forward on reset, yet it's incredibly difficult to measure that in real time. Now I'm understanding of the back foot positioning, but I also know, it's damn near impossible to continue this play without being so microscopic that we end up feeling like it's arguing what the definition of 'is' is. Especially when you consider how a line judge qualifies the back foot being planted on a kick step vs the snap timing and ball being live.
So either the NFL goes full authoritarian on this, which I'm no fan of. Or they end up letting too much of it go, which I feel we saw quite a bit pre-season and Week 1.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. But if the NFL has put all 32 teams on notice, then obviously they feel strongly enough about it that we're swimming in those "pressing it too much" type of waters.
Tia, Thanks for sharing that explanation by Brett. This was my beef that @dutch-oven actually mentioned 1st in this thread about where he noticed how far the RT was lining up. Line Judges are usually VERY quick to throw this flag when an OT cheats back far enough to the extent that not enough guys are lined up on the LOS. As Brett mentioned, the RT's helmet was up far enough to the extent it was directly in line with the Center's belt (hips/fanny could be an equivalent here). That's an advantage for the OT especially when used in pass pro situations that the Chiefs used it in. No flags? Really? Are we applying integrity of the game here or we trying to sell viewers that KC is ready to defend their Championship? Make you wonder WTF is going on here or at least it should IMO. KC is a great team that's easy to respect so the NFL doesn't need to help/protect them like that. They gained an advantage via the formation and it was up to the officiating crew to control that better than they cared to.
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I appreciate Brett taking a stab at this.
Firstly - VERY bold of him to assume we're ALL adults.
Secondly - I never played Oline, so I'm even learning something a bit new here. At least, in terms of the 'loophole' mentioned. Which, I'm no fan of loopholes. Taxes or football.
Thirdly - In his very video, which I only watched a few minutes of, the torso itself cannot come forward on reset, yet it's incredibly difficult to measure that in real time. Now I'm understanding of the back foot positioning, but I also know, it's damn near impossible to continue this play without being so microscopic that we end up feeling like it's arguing what the definition of 'is' is. Especially when you consider how a line judge qualifies the back foot being planted on a kick step vs the snap timing and ball being live.
So either the NFL goes full authoritarian on this, which I'm no fan of. Or they end up letting too much of it go, which I feel we saw quite a bit pre-season and Week 1.
It'll be interesting to see how this shakes out. But if the NFL has put all 32 teams on notice, then obviously they feel strongly enough about it that we're swimming in those "pressing it too much" type of waters.
Tia, Thanks for sharing that explanation by Brett. This was my beef that @dutch-oven actually mentioned 1st in this thread about where he noticed how far the RT was lining up. Line Judges are usually VERY quick to throw this flag when an OT cheats back far enough to the extent that not enough guys are lined up on the LOS. As Brett mentioned, the RT's helmet was up far enough to the extent it was directly in line with the Center's belt (hips/fanny could be an equivalent here). That's an advantage for the OT especially when used in pass pro situations that the Chiefs used it in. No flags? Really? Are we applying integrity of the game here or we trying to sell viewers that KC is ready to defend their Championship? Make you wonder WTF is going on here or at least it should IMO. KC is a great team that's easy to respect so the NFL doesn't need to help/protect them like that. They gained an advantage via the formation and it was up to the officiating crew to control that better than they cared to.
Tia, Thanks for sharing that explanation by Brett. This was my beef that @dutch-oven actually mentioned 1st in this thread about where he noticed how far the RT was lining up. Line Judges are usually VERY quick to throw this flag when an OT cheats back far enough to the extent that not enough guys are lined up on the LOS. As Brett mentioned, the RT's helmet was up far enough to the extent it was directly in line with the Center's belt (hips/fanny could be an equivalent here). That's an advantage for the OT especially when used in pass pro situations that the Chiefs used it in. No flags? Really? Are we applying integrity of the game here or we trying to sell viewers that KC is ready to defend their Championship? Make you wonder WTF is going on here or at least it should IMO. KC is a great team that's easy to respect so the NFL doesn't need to help/protect them like that. They gained an advantage via the formation and it was up to the officiating crew to control that better than they cared to.
First of all, as much as I would love to take credit, @unsympathetic was the one who linked the video initially.
Having some time to sort of mull it over, beyond pass pro situations; what this effects as much as anything is the pulling game - especially from the tackle spot. That extra space allowed by the refs makes a lineman's job much easier. So when I think of things like those double backside pulls, the misdirection game, etc etc... where the Oline is allowed to set, depth wise, from the center is incredibly important.
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I have plenty of work to drop in this thread, but a little foreshadowing right up your alley - of the first 9 straight drops on pass pro from Jed, he only had a positive grade on 2.
Not only do we not have average LT play, we actually have bottom 1/3 in the NFL play from our blindside. And I'm being conservative there. It's honestly closer to bottom 5.
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I have plenty of work to drop in this thread, but a little foreshadowing right up your alley - of the first 9 straight drops on pass pro from Jed, he only had a positive grade on 2.
Not only do we not have average LT play, we actually have bottom 1/3 in the NFL play from our blindside. And I'm being conservative there. It's honestly closer to bottom 5.
I have plenty of work to drop in this thread, but a little foreshadowing right up your alley - of the first 9 straight drops on pass pro from Jed, he only had a positive grade on 2.
Not only do we not have average LT play, we actually have bottom 1/3 in the NFL play from our blindside. And I'm being conservative there. It's honestly closer to bottom 5.
Our rollover RT was not a whole lot better either. EDIT: And didn't Bitonio get pancaked on his back on one of those sacks?
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I have plenty of work to drop in this thread, but a little foreshadowing right up your alley - of the first 9 straight drops on pass pro from Jed, he only had a positive grade on 2.
Not only do we not have average LT play, we actually have bottom 1/3 in the NFL play from our blindside. And I'm being conservative there. It's honestly closer to bottom 5.
Our rollover RT was not a whole lot better either. EDIT: And didn't Bitonio get pancaked on his back on one of those sacks?
Our rollover RT was not a whole lot better either. EDIT: And didn't Bitonio get pancaked on his back on one of those sacks?
Haven't gotten that far. Dawand has reasons.
He's a rookie going against a top 5 edge rusher (depending on where you rank him) whose game isn't set to consistently handle those sorts of assignments.
Jed is in his 4th season and was getting bull rushed by Markus Golden pretty bad. I just don't think he works on the left side. The consistent problems that show up on every snap is the lack of initial punch from his upfield handle to slow a rush, and his balance issues in his kick step. The footwork and timing, with not only his punch but contact from said edge rushers, means he struggles to re-anchor in the rep. As a result, he's walked back into DW quite a bit.
At this point, if I can find even an average LT in trade or free agent, I wouldn't be apposed to kicking Wills back to the right and seeing if his college form works from his kinetically dominant (and natural) side. We haven't paid him or Dawand yet, and I'm not about to move Jonesy to the left. That would potentially weaken both position groups while yielding no answers for either.
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Our rollover RT was not a whole lot better either. EDIT: And didn't Bitonio get pancaked on his back on one of those sacks?
Haven't gotten that far. Dawand has reasons.
He's a rookie going against a top 5 edge rusher (depending on where you rank him) whose game isn't set to consistently handle those sorts of assignments.
Jed is in his 4th season and was getting bull rushed by Markus Golden pretty bad. I just don't think he works on the left side. The consistent problems that show up on every snap is the lack of initial punch from his upfield handle to slow a rush, and his balance issues in his kick step. The footwork and timing, with not only his punch but contact from said edge rushers, means he struggles to re-anchor in the rep. As a result, he's walked back into DW quite a bit.
At this point, if I can find even an average LT in trade or free agent, I wouldn't be apposed to kicking Wills back to the right and seeing if his college form works from his kinetically dominant (and natural) side. We haven't paid him or Dawand yet, and I'm not about to move Jonesy to the left. That would potentially weaken both position groups while yielding no answers for either.
Haven't gotten that far. Dawand has reasons.
He's a rookie going against a top 5 edge rusher (depending on where you rank him) whose game isn't set to consistently handle those sorts of assignments.
Jed is in his 4th season and was getting bull rushed by Markus Golden pretty bad. I just don't think he works on the left side. The consistent problems that show up on every snap is the lack of initial punch from his upfield handle to slow a rush, and his balance issues in his kick step. The footwork and timing, with not only his punch but contact from said edge rushers, means he struggles to re-anchor in the rep. As a result, he's walked back into DW quite a bit.
At this point, if I can find even an average LT in trade or free agent, I wouldn't be apposed to kicking Wills back to the right and seeing if his college form works from his kinetically dominant (and natural) side. We haven't paid him or Dawand yet, and I'm not about to move Jonesy to the left. That would potentially weaken both position groups while yielding no answers for either.
It's so odd that Wills has regressed this badly. His rookie year was pretty good, all downhill since.
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Haven't gotten that far. Dawand has reasons.
He's a rookie going against a top 5 edge rusher (depending on where you rank him) whose game isn't set to consistently handle those sorts of assignments.
Jed is in his 4th season and was getting bull rushed by Markus Golden pretty bad. I just don't think he works on the left side. The consistent problems that show up on every snap is the lack of initial punch from his upfield handle to slow a rush, and his balance issues in his kick step. The footwork and timing, with not only his punch but contact from said edge rushers, means he struggles to re-anchor in the rep. As a result, he's walked back into DW quite a bit.
At this point, if I can find even an average LT in trade or free agent, I wouldn't be apposed to kicking Wills back to the right and seeing if his college form works from his kinetically dominant (and natural) side. We haven't paid him or Dawand yet, and I'm not about to move Jonesy to the left. That would potentially weaken both position groups while yielding no answers for either.
It's so odd that Wills has regressed this badly. His rookie year was pretty good, all downhill since.
It's so odd that Wills has regressed this badly. His rookie year was pretty good, all downhill since.
I don't think it's regression in the classic sense. His decline has been steady since late in his rookie season - the more the NFL can see about about you, the more they learn. Small techniques, tendencies and situations become magnified.
For example: as brilliant as Joe Thomas was, he always struggled with the bull rush from Suggs. T.S was elite in converting first step to power and Joe was never the road grader type.
Jed struggles with the same, only to a much greater extent and for different reasons. I just feel that he struggles on the left, and his talent is about maxed out there. Unless he's dealing with a secret high ankle sprain, I have no other explanations.
This next part isn't at you, Bob.
As an aside, I don't believe the Minkah hit was dirty. Because if I did think that, then I'd have to believe that TJ Ward intentionally tried to end Gronks career early back in 2013. Which I don't believe is true either.
Dropping your leverage as a DB onto a RB and going for a thigh pad from a slight angle is something I remember one of my smaller corners doing for the longest time. I also remember a fight breaking out over it. Wasn't intentionally dirty, but a lighter body has to get you on the ground.
Downside, he ended up taking a nasty shot to the side and having a slightly punctured lung once. Minkah is lucky the same didn't happen to him.
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I'll be online early this evening, around 5:30p EST, going over film from the Niners-Steelers week 1, and how that translated to our offensive designs against PIT in week 2. I'll also be charting more snaps, trying to get grades locked in and done.
Tomorrow for the Giants - Niners, I'll be home relaxing. If anyone would like to join and use this as the de' facto Browns Board Tavern, you are more than welcomed to. I'll be on this evening and next. Remember, bullshit will not be tolerated despite only being lightly admin'd.
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