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Nick

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  • VaporTrailV VaporTrail

    Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

    1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
    2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

    Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

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    Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
    #7

    @vaportrail said:

    Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

    1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
    2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

    Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

    I don't think it was intentionally trying to hurt him, but holy crap he left his feet and dove right in low with the shoulder, while he was in the grasp fighting for more yards.

    I do feel bad for defenders. They're in a no-win situation with all these rule changes.

    Karlis Missed
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    • Bob806B Bob806

      @vaportrail said:

      Minkah Fitzpatrick did nothing wrong. It was a football play with both players laying their bodies on the line. 

      1 - This type of tackle is a consequence of the league heavily penalizing and disincentivizing helmet-to-helmet contact
      2 - It's Nick fuckin Chubb dragging a Steeler downfield toward another first down. What else is Fitzpatrick supposed to do there? Hit him more gently? That hit was more of desperation than malice, if you ask me. 

      Can't wait for this hit to be used to justify more rule changes that further neuter the defense. If you really think this is a dirty hit, how should the NFL amend the rules to prevent this? 

      I don't think it was intentionally trying to hurt him, but holy crap he left his feet and dove right in low with the shoulder, while he was in the grasp fighting for more yards.

      I do feel bad for defenders. They're in a no-win situation with all these rule changes.

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      N Neo wrote on last edited by Neo
      #8

      @bob806 said:

      I do feel bad for defenders.

      I don't. They have been training since they where little kids to play this game. They need to use better judgement when going in for a tackle like that. Chubb was wrapped up and was vulnerable to a hit. He also lead with the crown of his helmet which is supposed to be a no-no is it not? He clearly put his helmet on Chubb's knee and according to NFL rules it's a foul. He should be fined at the very least. Where are we today as a society that we have a piece of footage that clearly shows what happened yet we still can't come to an agreement? (I'm not talking about you specifically by the way)

      https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-quietly-tweaked-lowering-of-helmet-rule-for-2022

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      • Neo N Dedicated Reacting Well Very Popular Conversation Starter Posting Machine Collaborator First Post One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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        N Neo wrote on last edited by
        #9

        If you watch the video, I totally agree with Simms what he says about what happened.

        https://www.nbcsports.com/watch/nfl/profootballtalk/chubb-out-for-year-with-significant-knee-injury

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        • N Neo

          @bob806 said:

          I do feel bad for defenders.

          I don't. They have been training since they where little kids to play this game. They need to use better judgement when going in for a tackle like that. Chubb was wrapped up and was vulnerable to a hit. He also lead with the crown of his helmet which is supposed to be a no-no is it not? He clearly put his helmet on Chubb's knee and according to NFL rules it's a foul. He should be fined at the very least. Where are we today as a society that we have a piece of footage that clearly shows what happened yet we still can't come to an agreement? (I'm not talking about you specifically by the way)

          https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-quietly-tweaked-lowering-of-helmet-rule-for-2022

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          Bob806B Bob806 wrote on last edited by
          #10

          @neo said:

          I don't. They have been training since they where little kids to play this game. They need to use better judgement when going in for a tackle like that. Chubb was wrapped up and was vulnerable to a hit. He also lead with the crown of his helmet which is supposed to be a no-no is it not? He clearly put his helmet on Chubb's knee and according to NFL rules it's a foul. He should be fined at the very least. Where are we today as a society that we have a piece of footage that clearly shows what happened yet we still can't come to an agreement? (I'm not talking about you specifically by the way)

          https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/nfl-quietly-tweaked-lowering-of-helmet-rule-for-2022

          https://fb.watch/n9OR6gb990/?mibextid=NnVzG8&startTimeMs=5221

          Looked like he lead with the shoulder. 

          I don't think Minkah is known for dirty play. But yeah, this clip is disturbing.

          Karlis Missed
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          • Orion OrionO Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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            OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by
            #11

            The RB is one of the last entities that are pretty much subjected to old school football.  They're not protected like a QB or a WR.

            If you've got a son who wants to play RB (like I did...because of Jim Brown) convince him to be a LB'er (or a safety).

            BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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            • Jax JaxJ One Year In Posting Machine Very Popular Conversation Starter One Month Later Reacting Well Collaborator Week One Done Dedicated First Post
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              JaxJ Jax wrote on last edited by Jax
              #12

              I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

              I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

              I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

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              • JaxJ Jax

                I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

                I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

                I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

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                N Neo wrote on last edited by
                #13

                @jax said:

                I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

                I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

                I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

                Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

                Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

                VaporTrailV 1 Reply Last reply
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                  IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown wrote on last edited by
                  #14

                  I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

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                  • N Neo

                    @jax said:

                    I thought it was dirty. I don't play football for a career and I can tell you I know better than to launch myself into the front of someones knees while he's dragging weight like that. He could have easily went mid section.

                    I'm not sure when but a couple possessions later Watson threw over the middle, our receiver missed it but again Fitz flew in for a cheap shot while the receiver was extended and vulnerable(defenseless). I didn't hear anyone else mention but I noticed.

                    I know things happen but it looked intentional. Did Fitz offer a public apology that seemed sincere?

                    Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

                    Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

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                    VaporTrailV VaporTrail wrote on last edited by
                    #15

                    @neo said:

                    Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

                    Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

                    Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

                    https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1704096313946574986

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                    • IbleedbrownI Ibleedbrown

                      I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

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                      Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                      #16

                      @ibleedbrown said:

                      I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

                      Absolutely. 

                      I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

                      I have a feeling this game is going to stick with us, and perhaps the team, for weeks. 

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                      • Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven

                        @ibleedbrown said:

                        I am all up in my feels over this. Anyone but Nick Chubb man. There is a tiny tiny percentage of athletes that l just love watching them play. It’s like poetry in motion. Add to it that he’s a great dude, the best dude. I’m so bummed. 

                        Absolutely. 

                        I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

                        I have a feeling this game is going to stick with us, and perhaps the team, for weeks. 

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                        jbluhm86J jbluhm86 wrote on last edited by
                        #17

                        @dutch-oven said:

                        ...I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

                        You're lucky that you got to experience the original Browns team. I signed on after they came back and the number of players from this era that I'd even consider buying a jersey of is slim:

                        - Joe Thomas

                        - Nick Chubb

                        - Myles Garrett

                        - Josh Cribbs

                        - Phil Dawson 

                        "That which can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence”. - Christopher Hitchens "The universe is under no obligation to make sense to you". - Neil deGrasse Tyson
                        Dutch OvenD 1 Reply Last reply
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                        • jbluhm86J jbluhm86

                          @dutch-oven said:

                          ...I own two Browns jerseys, both Nick Chubbs. I was thinking about him today and I've been following this team since the end of the Rutigliano years, and I think Nick Chubb might be the most universally liked and respected Browns player I've ever seen, maybe even more than Bernie or Joe Thomas, or at least at their level. 

                          You're lucky that you got to experience the original Browns team. I signed on after they came back and the number of players from this era that I'd even consider buying a jersey of is slim:

                          - Joe Thomas

                          - Nick Chubb

                          - Myles Garrett

                          - Josh Cribbs

                          - Phil Dawson 

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                          Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                          #18

                          @jbluhm86 said:

                          You're lucky that you got to experience the original Browns team. I signed on after they came back and the number of players from this era that I'd even consider buying a jersey of is slim:

                          - Joe Thomas

                          - Nick Chubb

                          - Myles Garrett

                          - Josh Cribbs

                          - Phil Dawson 

                          Seriously, hats off to you and any of Browns fans that started following this team from 1999 on. 

                          At least I somewhat remember when they were a legit NFL franchise, or as legit as one owned by Art Modell could be.

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                            Dutch OvenD Dutch Oven wrote on last edited by
                            #19

                            Another RB I wouldn't mind the Browns grabbing is former Ohio State Buckeye Trey Sermon, who I believe is on the Eagles practice squad. 

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                            • Axe AxeA Dedicated Conversation Starter Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                              AxeA Axe wrote on last edited by
                              #20

                              Cam Akers?

                              Our musical works to date http://www.arielsatticmusic.com/
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                              • Orion OrionO Conversation Starter Dedicated Very Popular Posting Machine Collaborator First Post Reacting Well One Year In One Month Later Week One Done
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                                OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by
                                #21

                                I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

                                BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
                                sydS 1 Reply Last reply
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                                • OrionO Orion

                                  I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

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                                  sydS syd wrote on last edited by
                                  #22

                                  @orion said:

                                  I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

                                  he has already been in town for a visit.john kelly jr. remember him ?

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                                  • sydS syd

                                    @orion said:

                                    I'd just bite the bullet and call up Hunt.  He'd be up to speed with any new offensive wrinkles in no time flat.  He knows the team, building, area, etc.  

                                    he has already been in town for a visit.john kelly jr. remember him ?

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                                    OrionO Orion wrote on last edited by
                                    #23

                                    @syd said:

                                    he has already been in town for a visit.john kelly jr. remember him ?

                                    Syd, Kelly is not the answer.  He's been around a while now and they still bring in other backs.  They see him as an emergency situation guy only.  IMO

                                    -----

                                    I want to add to the sentiment of love for Chubb in this thread.  He's been my favorite Brown since experiencing his first season.  He makes beautiful slide-moves, he's got a great burst of speed and is a fast runner.  If he gets past you, you ain't catchin' him.  He's Powerful.  And without a Show-boat bone in his body he'll just toss the ball to the official.  -  Perfection  -      It's sad how we just can't have anything nice.    I feel bad that he has to endure this pain...for us.  And I hope he's made well, with God speed.

                                    BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE
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                                    • VaporTrailV VaporTrail

                                      @neo said:

                                      Chris Simms - "What I don't love is that he's engaged with somebody else and the fact that Minkah Fitzpatrick goes low on him. I just didn't love that. I just didn't think it was necessary" 

                                      Pretty much what I've been saying. These players have been doing this for years and they should know not to make that kind of hit. 

                                      Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

                                      https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1704096313946574986

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                                      JaxJ Jax wrote on last edited by
                                      #24

                                      @vaportrail said:

                                      Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

                                      https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1704096313946574986

                                      I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

                                      Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

                                      He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

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                                      • JaxJ Jax

                                        @vaportrail said:

                                        Hindsight is 20/20. The tradeoff of going low for a hit like this is that you might get yourself injured by a thigh/knee that's moving at full sprint. Chubb had forward momentum and Minkah put a stop to it - now they're both injured. Go find me a commentator who played defense who's calling out the hit as dirty. I think McCourty's got this one right. 

                                        https://twitter.com/gmfb/status/1704096313946574986

                                        I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

                                        Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

                                        He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

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                                        VaporTrailV VaporTrail wrote on last edited by
                                        #25

                                        @jax said:

                                        I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

                                        Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

                                        He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

                                        Jason McCourty is actually a former Cleveland Brown and never played for the Steelers. 

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                                        • VaporTrailV VaporTrail

                                          @jax said:

                                          I doubt Fitz was worried about himself getting hurt and getting hurt being dirty doesn't excuse him.

                                          Posting a biased opinion from a Steeler commentator no matter who he has on doesn't mean much.

                                          He didn't just go low, he went straight at his knees while he was carrying a load, huge difference compared to going low on a speeding back coming at you in an open field.

                                          Jason McCourty is actually a former Cleveland Brown and never played for the Steelers. 

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                                          tiamat63T tiamat63 wrote on last edited by tiamat63
                                          #26

                                          @vaportrail said:

                                          Jason McCourty is actually a former Cleveland Brown and never played for the Steelers. 

                                          You'll have to excuse that particular poster. I had never seen the name before up here, looks like a poli board troll when you check the account.   

                                          Now to follow that (but not at you, Vape), as a question at all of you...   Does anyone here believe TJ Ward was an intentionally malicious player looking to end careers?

                                          Because I posed that (rhetorical) question in my thread...  this is probably as good as a place to do so.  

                                          This is TJ ending Gronks season, and could have been his career, early.  

                                          It was a low hit, but I know what TJ was trying to do.  He a 5'10 200lb DB trying to separate the ball from a HoF TE who is 6'5 260lbs.     

                                          This was TJ with Denver having a more clean tackle angle on Gronk who wasn't full speed down the seam.

                                          No extra commentary from Gronk himself.  Because he understood TJ wasn't being intentionally dirty when his knee went out the previous season.

                                          TJ's commentary afterwards.  

                                          https://www.nfl.com/news/t-j-ward-hit-on-patriots-rob-gronkowski-was-legal-0ap2000000295541

                                          Naturally, Patriots fans screamed "DIRTY" at the top of their lungs.  Just like most people are doing here.   

                                          I know most of you have never played DB, or at all for that matter, so I'd say maybe put aside the cult level think and wonder why no other former or current NFL players are all over twitter calling this dirty?   It isn't.  Bad form, a bit weak and a touch desperate (Let's be real, have you see DB's panic in the open field against Nick? Because I have) But I remembered watching TJ on his debut because our safety situation was SO damn bad back then.  Plus I liked his game when he was at Oregon.   I remember him cutting down a backside bounce on a strength gap run, and then on a TE screen as well.

                                          Thank God Youtube still has this sort of thing.

                                          First play is at 34 seconds on the backside bounce, the second play is at 1:16 mark.     

                                           You go into the top of the thigh pad, at an angle, heads up and generally you'll get two things -  The first being somebody trying to lower their leverage, and you'll still be lower than them.  Secondly, the top of your hat should hit the ball while you take their ability to generate any more forward momentum by having the ball carrier off his feet.   Taking the tires off, plain and simple.

                                           I'm wasting my time, and yes I know the history behind the Steelers. And yes, I do believe Harrison flirted the line between intense and dirty... often the latter.     But there was zero intention of hurting Nick here.    It's not possible for us to claim he is universally respected, including by Coach Tomlin, who calls him "Mr. Chubb" by the way, and then believe there is some grand conspiracy.      Was it good football? No.  Was it dirty? Also no.    Both can, and sadly are, very true.          We're all hurting for Nick.   To many of us, he embodies what we feel Browns football is.     But let's pull some heads out of asses here and think for a moment.  

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