Watson's shoulder
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if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
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I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol
Eh- If there's fluid in the shoulder or it's a bad bruise, I get it. I know it's easy to compare this to Mayfield and how in retrospect he probably should have sat. But the fact the Browns are being so "mum" leads me to a place where the dude could have played, but said no (which Stefanski did confirm that he shut himself down despite being medically cleared).
Meanwhile, you have Derek Carr with a confirmed AC Joint Sprain who laced them up. It's pretty hard to not rationally go to a place where he could have played, and didn't. If that's the case, I'm not going to have ill feelings about questioning the toughness of the highest paid, most important player of the team.
Eh- If there's fluid in the shoulder or it's a bad bruise, I get it. I know it's easy to compare this to Mayfield and how in retrospect he probably should have sat. But the fact the Browns are being so "mum" leads me to a place where the dude could have played, but said no (which Stefanski did confirm that he shut himself down despite being medically cleared).
Meanwhile, you have Derek Carr with a confirmed AC Joint Sprain who laced them up. It's pretty hard to not rationally go to a place where he could have played, and didn't. If that's the case, I'm not going to have ill feelings about questioning the toughness of the highest paid, most important player of the team.
Watson is beyond tough. He expected to play and his body betrayed him. He COULDN'T throw, it wasn't a pain thing. Anyone who saw the video of him throwing could tell it wasn't right. It's why I said during the week he would t play. No zip equals no play. This is the same guy who played with a deflated lung. He wasn't cleared for air travel due to the variation of pressure, so he drove many hours to play in his next game. Watson can be accused of many things, but he doesn't miss games.
The fault is squarely on Berry AND Stefanski. If I knew he couldn't play, coach should have, too. He should have had a better game plan, instead coach had NOTHING for DTR. It was embarrassing.
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if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
That was just strange how it all unfolded. There has to be more to this story. And then there's the Njoku getting burns on his neck and face at home that also happened very late in the week.
There's some asses on the line here this year. Looking at this offense, when they're losing to teams they're finally supposed to be beating/handling via "the plan" - it looks like a fire drill in a Chicken Coop. If the OWNER can ever do the right thing - he needs to have the balls to get Depodesta out of here so his offensive staff can do their job without his interference. If he doesn't have the balls - it's another year of "same old Browns."
We deserve way better!
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I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol
I don't think we can blame Watson for not playing. Many of us crucified Baker for playing when he couldn't perform. Watson didn't/couldn't throw all week, was visibly not ok, and yet our coaching staff acted surprised he couldn't throw and play. Listen, I said on WEDNESDAY he wouldn't play. It's a SHOULDER. More to come later, have to work. Lol
Matt Hasselback said he had the same injury Baker had on the non-throwing shoulder and it was the worst season of his career. Messed up his mechanics and kept him antsy.
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It’s a bad take that Watson was cleared so should play. Throwing shoulder injury in game 4, struggling to throw downfield - let it heal up. Maybe if it was a division deciding game or playoff game you expect him to suffer through it, but not now.
Watson will probably miss another 1-2 games this year, and miss some snaps during games. What you really want to see is a qb2 that can step in and make smart decisions and have accurate passes beyond 10 yards.
Nobody is running away with the division after week 4… and we get 3 more division games. It’s a long season
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if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
Ding ding. This right here is going under a lot of noses. Stef could've easily said that:
"Watson tried to go but just couldn't make the throws we felt he needed to make for us to be competitive against a tough division rival, so we as a staff decided it was in the best interest of the team to put a player under center that gave us the best chance to win. Additionally it gives Watson an extra week to heal up with the upcoming bye."
But instead he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement for reasons that only Kevin knows.
^ My opinion and guess from 2,312 miles away? Watson is not Stef's dude. Period.
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if this is correct…I believe Stefanski reported he was medically cleared to play…did someone else say this? Stefanski is typically careful with his words probably too careful to a fault. Why ignite this situation with “he was cleared but the he determined he couldn’t go”. Probably not the perception you need to put out there to what is believed to be a mentally fragile player.
Im going to guess Probably half of our roster would suit it up if the doctors said “I don’t know”. They are playing for their next contract so of course something like this may not sit well with them.
Ding ding. This right here is going under a lot of noses. Stef could've easily said that:
"Watson tried to go but just couldn't make the throws we felt he needed to make for us to be competitive against a tough division rival, so we as a staff decided it was in the best interest of the team to put a player under center that gave us the best chance to win. Additionally it gives Watson an extra week to heal up with the upcoming bye."
But instead he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement for reasons that only Kevin knows.
^ My opinion and guess from 2,312 miles away? Watson is not Stef's dude. Period.
he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement
I agree. And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him. The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him. Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter. It's the same thing here. The player was medically cleared to play. So Stef was going to play him. But in this case, the player didn't want to play.
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he carefully chose his words to basically say "Hey, dude could've gone but elected not to"..... This was not an accident or a slip of the tongue, but rather a deliberate statement
I agree. And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him. The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him. Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter. It's the same thing here. The player was medically cleared to play. So Stef was going to play him. But in this case, the player didn't want to play.
I agree. And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him. The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him. Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter. It's the same thing here. The player was medically cleared to play. So Stef was going to play him. But in this case, the player didn't want to play.
Yeah, Baker did play but was it a smart thing to do? Probably not. He's not here anymore. As the games went on I never got the sense he was getting any better. I think the Browns saw their Super Bowl window was still open and took a chance on Watson banking on him returning to form. And can you blame Watson for sitting out? Not his fault someone had a mental breakdown and gave him a massive fully guaranteed contract./
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Who knows what to make of Kev's comment. I'm realizing he's just a weird dude. And he's also a man on the hot seat, and he knows that, so he may be trying to cover himself.
For Watson - it was his throwing shoulder, not his non-throwing shoulder, so that makes a difference. In his warmup throws, Watson didn't throw more than 10 yards. If Watson went out there and noodle-armed all the throws and we get killed by the Ravens, we would be screaming how he should have never played. But that's how bad DTR was and why this is getting overanalyzed so much - a noodle-armed QB who could only throw 1-10 yards the entire game would have been better than DTR.
Great job letting Dobbs go!
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Unfortunately what you're attempting to do isn't possible. Because if you're going just of stats alone, as a "bottom line guy", then it'll grieve you to know that the Browns play calls looked like this in the 1st half v PIT.
A balanced offensive attack is great in theory, provided a team is having equal amounts of success, both running and passing.
With both of our offensive tackles looking like matadors during that game, it brought back memories of when Mayfield was being used as a piñata. Only this time it was DW, and the results were the same. I don’t think Kev knows how to make in game adjustments to counter the opposition when they pin their ears back and rush the QB.
The biggest difference?
4 turnovers and 6 sacks given up by CLE
Right, turnovers and sacks were the big difference in that game. It’s sure as hell wasn’t the Stoolers #29 ranked offense that was winning the game. It was the 4 & 5 step drop backs by DW that was feeding points to Shittsburgh. It seemed like the entire 2nd half Watson was running for his life after every snap. I don’t blame Watson, I blame pass protection and the play calling….again.
The Browns run to pass balance was within 1 play of San Fran before the 2min warning at the end of each half began to tip those in the obvious direction.
Again, in theory balance is fine if both aspects are working. What describes doing the same thing over and over and expecting different outcomes? ? I’m not against passing the ball, but the QB taking deep drop backs needs to change in that situation.
But they also protected their QB.
Yes they did, but for some reason the Browns can’t…different game same outcome.
Like I mentioned that Tuesday afterwards, the game boiled down to turnovers and pass protection. Like we saw against a different opponent this past Sunday, turnovers (including damn near another pick six) and pass protection. There is one constant in this equation - and it must be fixed by the coaches as much as possible if the personnel simply isn't getting it done.
Agreed, if I were the head coach and couldn’t protect my QB, I would say screw the balance I’m going to run the ball more and throw in some quick passes.
It's why I maintain, that as much as I loved Coach Tressel at tOSU, I would have killed for Pete Carroll to have had the job.
Tresselball, at it's core is - "run it until they stop it". PC on the other hand is - "Run it until you know they have to stop it". The former being a philosophy that is far more adaptable to fielding a consistently more efficient offense by exploited expected defensive adjustments.
The Brownies probably could have been a bit more run heavy, especially early on. However the Steelers gave us the defensive personnel matchups that were pretty ideal to work the quick passing game. The offense just didn't execute from the get-go. The "analytic" style in me says to attack the X's and O's and personnel as they give it to you, because it makes perfect sense. But the old school in me says, it just wasn't working... hand the ball off to your workhorse.
After the first two drives, the next 2, (when we started moving the ball) were 8 called runs to only 4 passes. So I think we caught the glimpse of Stef looking to lean on Chubb. Now I do believe the play call sheet would have looked a lot different had Chubb not gone down with that horrifying injury. But he did, and the immediate next series we went to lean on Watson and the Oline a bit, and it was a 3 & out with 3 straight passes. I think what happened to Nick put everyone, including the coaching staff, in a bit of shock and unease. Because he is/was the safety blanket to this offense. The man you could turn to when you needed to grind out yardage. Now you're without him, physically and emotionally, on the road in primetime against a loud crowd with a passing game that still needs time to grow and an offense line struggling in most facets of the game.
I think, to an extent, we're upset about similar things. The devil is in the details as to the 'why?'. The running game to me boils down to a matter of...
- When we're using it
-How we're using it.
Which I've said before, are questions I'm asking myself about Stef. & Co right now.
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It's why I maintain, that as much as I loved Coach Tressel at tOSU, I would have killed for Pete Carroll to have had the job.
Tresselball, at it's core is - "run it until they stop it". PC on the other hand is - "Run it until you know they have to stop it". The former being a philosophy that is far more adaptable to fielding a consistently more efficient offense by exploited expected defensive adjustments.
The Brownies probably could have been a bit more run heavy, especially early on. However the Steelers gave us the defensive personnel matchups that were pretty ideal to work the quick passing game. The offense just didn't execute from the get-go. The "analytic" style in me says to attack the X's and O's and personnel as they give it to you, because it makes perfect sense. But the old school in me says, it just wasn't working... hand the ball off to your workhorse.
After the first two drives, the next 2, (when we started moving the ball) were 8 called runs to only 4 passes. So I think we caught the glimpse of Stef looking to lean on Chubb. Now I do believe the play call sheet would have looked a lot different had Chubb not gone down with that horrifying injury. But he did, and the immediate next series we went to lean on Watson and the Oline a bit, and it was a 3 & out with 3 straight passes. I think what happened to Nick put everyone, including the coaching staff, in a bit of shock and unease. Because he is/was the safety blanket to this offense. The man you could turn to when you needed to grind out yardage. Now you're without him, physically and emotionally, on the road in primetime against a loud crowd with a passing game that still needs time to grow and an offense line struggling in most facets of the game.
I think, to an extent, we're upset about similar things. The devil is in the details as to the 'why?'. The running game to me boils down to a matter of...
- When we're using it
-How we're using it.
Which I've said before, are questions I'm asking myself about Stef. & Co right now.
It's why I maintain, that as much as I loved Coach Tressel at tOSU, I would have killed for Pete Carroll to have had the job.
Tresselball, at it's core is - "run it until they stop it". PC on the other hand is - "Run it until you know they have to stop it". The former being a philosophy that is far more adaptable to fielding a consistently more efficient offense by exploited expected defensive adjustments.
The Brownies probably could have been a bit more run heavy, especially early on. However the Steelers gave us the defensive personnel matchups that were pretty ideal to work the quick passing game. The offense just didn't execute from the get-go. The "analytic" style in me says to attack the X's and O's and personnel as they give it to you, because it makes perfect sense. But the old school in me says, it just wasn't working... hand the ball off to your workhorse.
After the first two drives, the next 2, (when we started moving the ball) were 8 called runs to only 4 passes. So I think we caught the glimpse of Stef looking to lean on Chubb. Now I do believe the play call sheet would have looked a lot different had Chubb not gone down with that horrifying injury. But he did, and the immediate next series we went to lean on Watson and the Oline a bit, and it was a 3 & out with 3 straight passes. I think what happened to Nick put everyone, including the coaching staff, in a bit of shock and unease. Because he is/was the safety blanket to this offense. The man you could turn to when you needed to grind out yardage. Now you're without him, physically and emotionally, on the road in primetime against a loud crowd with a passing game that still needs time to grow and an offense line struggling in most facets of the game.
I think, to an extent, we're upset about similar things. The devil is in the details as to the 'why?'. The running game to me boils down to a matter of...
- When we're using it
-How we're using it.
Which I've said before, are questions I'm asking myself about Stef. & Co right now.
I agree, I just saw too many bad things happen we were in passing situations.
With the loss of Nick, things just got tougher going forward.
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Dude did not want to mess up his shoulder anymore and did not want to go out there and look like an idiot; I don't blame him and lets be honest: People in the Baker cult or just simply don't like Watson, are going to find anything to nitpick him about.
Stefanski should have been knowledgable enough to know he had a rookie who I am sure was very nervous getting his first pro start and therefore needed to have a gameplan to benefit him; instead he did the exact opposite.
If fans blame DW for this loss, or call him a pussy or whatever, they're morons.
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I agree. And like I said back when, when everyone was complaining that Baker was playing injured and wasn't playing well and that it was Stef's fault for playing him. The player was medically cleared to play...and wanted to play...and practiced...So Stef HAD to play him. Otherwise he would be stating that the backup was better than his starter. It's the same thing here. The player was medically cleared to play. So Stef was going to play him. But in this case, the player didn't want to play.
Yeah, Baker did play but was it a smart thing to do? Probably not. He's not here anymore. As the games went on I never got the sense he was getting any better. I think the Browns saw their Super Bowl window was still open and took a chance on Watson banking on him returning to form. And can you blame Watson for sitting out? Not his fault someone had a mental breakdown and gave him a massive fully guaranteed contract./
Yeah, Baker did play but was it a smart thing to do? Probably not.
I bet that with Baker part of his mentality was, I don't want the backup playing and winning games, then they might stay starting him. Whereas I don't think that enters into Watson's thinking at all.
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https://reddit.com/r/Browns/s/kEjss1mtiM
idk man, the whole thing just reeks to me. Look, the rational person in me gets what some of you are trying to say. Skipping this game gives a guy a full two weeks to recover and God willing not miss another snap.
I also more strongly feel like it’s being indicated the team, staff, and teammates thought he was good enough to play and he willingly did not. That shit will absolutely kill a locker room if there’s truth to it, especially because he’s the highest paid player on the team.
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I think it was when he got a helmet to his shoulder on a designed-run down by the endzone.
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I think it was when he got a helmet to his shoulder on a designed-run down by the endzone.
I think it was when he got a helmet to his shoulder on a designed-run down by the endzone.
The video I posted looks a lot more violent and he was down on the field. Announcer said DTR was on the field after that hit. Sure looks like they were trying to hurt him with that shot. No way that's incidental.
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I think it was when he got a helmet to his shoulder on a designed-run down by the endzone.
The video I posted looks a lot more violent and he was down on the field. Announcer said DTR was on the field after that hit. Sure looks like they were trying to hurt him with that shot. No way that's incidental.
The video I posted looks a lot more violent and he was down on the field. Announcer said DTR was on the field after that hit. Sure looks like they were trying to hurt him with that shot. No way that's incidental.
I somewhat remember the run play and him coming up with his right arm kind of hanging there and him in discomfort...?
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Just watching the Tennessee game again and came across this. Did someone post this already? Is this where he got hurt?
Did someone post this already? Is this where he got hurt?
Below is what is believed to have caused Watson's throwing shoulder injury.. (he gets rocked)
Right at the end he takes a helmet to his throwing shoulder
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