A quick fact/stat check for those calling for a QB change...AGAIN....
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Now we're back to the old is it the line or the QB argument again.
Same thing we saw with Frye. Everyone thought it was the line, but when DA came in, the sacks dropped. It seemed Frye was holding the ball too long and scrambling, making it harder to protect him.
Quinn isn't scrambling all over like Frye, and does step into the pocket. I saw the pocket collapse pretty quickly a few times yesterday; other times, he held the ball for too long (the near-safety in the endzone comes to mind here).
Dumervil beat St Clair like a rented mule yesterday. I think DA takes less sacks, but has interceptions instead as he tries to gun it out of there to avoid the sack. We KNOW he does this because we've SEEN him do it a zillion times; getting rid of the ball quickly doesn't do any good if it results in turnovers, especially crushers like ints-for-TDs.
I assume Quinn is unsure of himself or the receivers and that's why he is holding the ball too long at times; he didn't exhibit that trait last year.
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Charlier Frye was sacked 5 times, in the first half of the opener in 2007. He got off 10 pass attempts. In came Derek Anderson who was only sacked 14 times in the remaining 15 games, tossing 527 passes inbetween.
Brady Quinn has been sacked 10 times in 6 appearances with 5 starts.
Anderson has been sacked 36 times in 31 appearances with 27 starts.
Pro-rated to Andersons term, Quinn is on pace for 50+ sacks in that same amount of games.
Why you people keep saying that Anderson would get even more killed back there is beyond me.
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@danamal said:
One common theme I keep seeing in various threads is about having to pay an escalating contract to Quinn,why in the hell would that bother anyone who doesnt right the checks?I think there is some jealousy. I couldn't care less, myself. It's not MY Business (the Browns business entity), nor it is my business.
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I wish people would stop saying DA would have been sacked more because he's immobile. DA in fact, gets sacked A LOT less.
2007 - DA was sacked 14 times in 15-1/2 games (less than once a game, with 28 TDs). Now consider that Frye was sacked 5 times in 1 quarter with the same offense against the same team and what does that say about DA's poise?
2008 - DA was sacked 14 times in I believe, 8 games? (less than twice a game. 8 TDs and an infinite amount of drops)
2008 - Quinn was sacked 9 times in TWO GAMES! (4-1/2 times a game, got a boo-boo on his finger and quit. Way to take advantage of your big break)
2009 - Brady has been sacked 9 times in TWO GAMES! (4-1/2 times a game)
PS. In 2008, Brady's completion % was .4 better than DA's
His rating was .1% better than DA's.
DA's TD% was a full point higher than Brady's. His INT% was only .6% worse than Brady's. Mind you, he played much better defenses, and had ZERO targets and no running game.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that just because Brady is mobile he gets sacked less than DA because it's just false. DA stands in there yes, but he also gets rid of it, a lot of times to the other team, but he does not get sacked as much. I agree with everybody that St. Clair is aweful but Quinn needs to do a much better job of getting rid of the ball. He knows when he's gonna get pressure and instead of making a decision where to go with the ball quickly, he start rolling out and hopes for the best.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
For all those who think Quinn has been "horrible" this year so far...... might want to check your stats/facts before wanting good ol boy DA back again...
Quinn so far: 66.9
DA for ALL of 2008: 66.5
So, if Quinn has been horrible, DA was even more so..... and you want THAT again?
It's not the QB! It's pretty much EVERYTHING...
DA would have had been sacked 6-8 times today from lack of mobility alone as bad as our OL is.Also, so far, there's only one team that's allowed more sacks than us.
For all those who think Quinn has been "horrible" this year so far...... might want to check your stats/facts before wanting good ol boy DA back again...
Quinn so far: 66.9
DA for ALL of 2008: 66.5
So, if Quinn has been horrible, DA was even more so..... and you want THAT again?
It's not the QB! It's pretty much EVERYTHING...
DA would have had been sacked 6-8 times today from lack of mobility alone as bad as our OL is.Also, so far, there's only one team that's allowed more sacks than us.
Are you really stating your case on a difference of 4/10 of a percent? It is the QB. DA lost his job last year and he was working with less than BQ is right now. It won't be long until he gtes pulled. Normally I wouldn't be so convinced of that but EVERYTHING that concerned me about BQ's game has shown itself on a consistent basis dating back to last year. He just doesn't have it.
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I wish people would stop saying DA would have been sacked more because he's immobile. DA in fact, gets sacked A LOT less.
2007 - DA was sacked 14 times in 15-1/2 games (less than once a game, with 28 TDs). Now consider that Frye was sacked 5 times in 1 quarter with the same offense against the same team and what does that say about DA's poise?
2008 - DA was sacked 14 times in I believe, 8 games? (less than twice a game. 8 TDs and an infinite amount of drops)
2008 - Quinn was sacked 9 times in TWO GAMES! (4-1/2 times a game, got a boo-boo on his finger and quit. Way to take advantage of your big break)
2009 - Brady has been sacked 9 times in TWO GAMES! (4-1/2 times a game)
PS. In 2008, Brady's completion % was .4 better than DA's
His rating was .1% better than DA's.
DA's TD% was a full point higher than Brady's. His INT% was only .6% worse than Brady's. Mind you, he played much better defenses, and had ZERO targets and no running game.
I'm not sure where the idea came from that just because Brady is mobile he gets sacked less than DA because it's just false. DA stands in there yes, but he also gets rid of it, a lot of times to the other team, but he does not get sacked as much. I agree with everybody that St. Clair is aweful but Quinn needs to do a much better job of getting rid of the ball. He knows when he's gonna get pressure and instead of making a decision where to go with the ball quickly, he start rolling out and hopes for the best.
I wish people would stop saying DA would have been sacked more because he's immobile. DA in fact, gets sacked A LOT less.
Looks like we both were working on the same 9theme) post at the same time.
AND ... it ended the discussion here.
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What discussion?
The opening original thread stated, "DA would have had been sacked 6-8 times today from lack of mobility alone as bad as our OL is", others followed supporting this myth.
Mopaji and I both presented evidence to to the contrary. There the disscussion ended.
Would you like us to dumb it down for you Dr. Seus style?
One fish ... two fish ... dish off short of the sticks
three fish ... four fish ... Horse Balls don't deserve this dis'
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You're right, he would have just thrown 3 INT's instead of taking the 3 sacks. You're right...... let's go back to THAT again...
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You're right, he would have just thrown 3 INT's instead of taking the 3 sacks. You're right...... let's go back to THAT again...
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If this is true, and it may be, you have to put in DA. He at least opens the entire playbook for us and keeps the Defense honest. All they are doing now is stacking the box, stopping the run, and blitzing the hell out of us. They are making BQ beat them and it has lead to an 0-2 start because he cannot beat them. DA at least gives his recivers a chance on every throw and the D must respect that.
We knew this year was a wash before it started but I cannot stand getting embaressed every week.
GO CAVS!
Let me know how DA would have changed the result using our Run Run Pass Punt play calling?
Let me know how DA would have changed the result using our Run Run Pass Punt play calling?
First off, what can you call in football besides run or pass?
Nevermind. When DA is in there the entire playbook is open and we are no longer one dimensional. You probably have never played football in your life because there is a HUUGE advantage when you are playing a one dimensional team vs a team with multiple options. With Quinn, you crowd the line, if they run, you have 8 guys there to fill gaps. When they pass, you have pressure on the QB and guys making tackles on the TE/RB but definately not the WRs, 4 yards before the 1st down marker.
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Charlier Frye was sacked 5 times, in the first half of the opener in 2007. He got off 10 pass attempts. In came Derek Anderson who was only sacked 14 times in the remaining 15 games, tossing 527 passes inbetween.
Brady Quinn has been sacked 10 times in 6 appearances with 5 starts.
Anderson has been sacked 36 times in 31 appearances with 27 starts.
Pro-rated to Andersons term, Quinn is on pace for 50+ sacks in that same amount of games.
Why you people keep saying that Anderson would get even more killed back there is beyond me.
Charlier Frye was sacked 5 times, in the first half of the opener in 2007. He got off 10 pass attempts. In came Derek Anderson who was only sacked 14 times in the remaining 15 games, tossing 527 passes inbetween.
Brady Quinn has been sacked 10 times in 6 appearances with 5 starts.
Anderson has been sacked 36 times in 31 appearances with 27 starts.
Pro-rated to Andersons term, Quinn is on pace for 50+ sacks in that same amount of games.
Why you people keep saying that Anderson would get even more killed back there is beyond me.
Maybe because it's not the same offensive line DA played behind in 2007 - 08?
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Let me know how DA would have changed the result using our Run Run Pass Punt play calling?
First off, what can you call in football besides run or pass?
Nevermind. When DA is in there the entire playbook is open and we are no longer one dimensional. You probably have never played football in your life because there is a HUUGE advantage when you are playing a one dimensional team vs a team with multiple options. With Quinn, you crowd the line, if they run, you have 8 guys there to fill gaps. When they pass, you have pressure on the QB and guys making tackles on the TE/RB but definately not the WRs, 4 yards before the 1st down marker.
First off, what can you call in football besides run or pass?
Nevermind. When DA is in there the entire playbook is open and we are no longer one dimensional. You probably have never played football in your life because there is a HUUGE advantage when you are playing a one dimensional team vs a team with multiple options. With Quinn, you crowd the line, if they run, you have 8 guys there to fill gaps. When they pass, you have pressure on the QB and guys making tackles on the TE/RB but definately not the WRs, 4 yards before the 1st down marker.
This would be true assuming DA knows the playbook and is comfortable "opening it up". But you have absolutely nothing to base that on. He played hardly any in preseason and its AN ENTIRE NEW OFFENSIVE SCHEME / PLAYBOOK.
You all just need to chill the F out and evaluate the team as a whole after the bye week. This is a damn expansion team.
You could put Tom Brady in at QB and he couldn't do shit either.
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DA will never take a lot of sacks because he gets rid of the ball so quickly. When he decides to let it fly it doesn't take long.
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I posted this on another thread but since people talking about turnovers I reposted it here.
The horrible Qb in the second half of the season produced a 5 3 record.
0 @PIT L 31-28 16 35 123 45.7 3.51 16 3 0 0.0 83.4 2 5 2.5 6 0
11 @BALW 33-30 24 38 274 63.2 7.21 50 0 1 1.0 73.8 4 -4 -1.0 2 1
12 HOU W 27-17 24 35 253 68.6 7.23 25 2 1 1.0 96.5 0 0 0.0 0 0
13 @ARI L 27-21 21 41 304 51.2 7.42 67 2 2 1.0 71.6 2 10 5.0 10 0
14 @NYJ W 24-18 16 29 185 55.2 6.38 45 2 1 0.0 83.3 3 3 1.0 5 0
15 BUF W 8-0 9 24 137 37.5 5.71 25 0 0 1.0 57.1 1 0 0.0 0 0
16 @CINL 19-14 29 48 251 60.4 5.23 22 2 4 1.0 53.4 1 6 6.0 6 0
17 SF W 20-7 11 20 152 55.0 7.60 45 1 1 1.0 75.4 1 0 0.0 0
Ratings of 83.4, 73.8, 96.5, 71.6, 83.3, 57.1, 53.4 and 75.4. Not spectacular by any means but really not as bad as you probably remember. There were more games than the Cincy game in the second half of the year.
and even if you ONLY count the second half of 2007 and the SHITY 2008 season DA is still 8 wins and 9 losses. I mean the horrific game in Cincinnati was a 53.4 rating and BQs rating last game was 58.7.
BQ's QB rating going in to this game was 68 for his career and I don't think that this game will have helped. In 5 career starts BQ has 3 TDs, 4 interceptions and 2 fumbles. That is a TD for every TWO turnovers. And I have seen DA called a turnover machine with a turnover rate of 1.29 every game. Well BQ has an average of 1.2 and for this year he averages 2 turnovers a game.
I still say start BQ and leave him in there. But I just don't agree that DA was a bad as many seem to have stuck in their heads. Did DA play great in 2008? Of course not, but he did start the season with a concussion and no receivers against 3 of the better defenses in the league and in game 4 he beat the Bengals who did not have a bad defense either.
And as far as sacks go DA was sacked 4 times in ONE game (against Baltimore) last year and NONE in 2007 so why would you think he would ever get sacked 8 times in one game (as some have claimed would happen)?
I do not think that BQ has had any 4 interception games but then again I don't think BQ has had any 5 TD games either (since only 3 in 5 starts). DA had 2 multiple interception games in 2008 and 2 multiple TD games also and even though he had a horrible year he still threw more TDs than Interceptions. In 2007 DA had 4 multiple interception games and 10 multiple TD games. In 2006 he had 2 multiple TD games and 2 multiple Interception games. So in 31 total games DA has had 14 multiple TD games and 8 multiple Interception games. 23 games where he has thrown a TD and 21 games where he has thrown and Interception. So if DA throws a TD (74%) then he is 61% likely to throw 2 or more TDs and in games where DA throws a interception(68% of time) he is only 38% likely to have multiple interceptions.
BQ has throw a TD in 2 of his 5 starts (40%) and is likely to throw multiple TDs in half of those games (which equates to 20%) and he has thrown interceptions in 3 of his 5 starts (60%) and multiple interceptions in one of those games (also 20%).
Basically DA is 74% likely to throw a TD and BQ is 40% likely. And DA is 45% likely to throw multiple TDs in a game and BQ is 20% likely to throw multiple TDs. DA is 68% likely to throw a INT and is 26% likely to throw multiple Interceptions. BQ is 60% likely to throw a INT and 20% likely to throw multiple interceptions.
You can make what you want of those stats but it suggests that BQ is almost as likely to throw a interception as DA is and is also almost as likely to throw multiple interceptions in a game he does throw an interception. But DA is almost twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ is and more than twice as likely to throw multiple TDs in a game.
Not sure that actually supports the idea that DA is a turnover machine. He averages 1.29 turnovers a game and BQ 1.2 (this year 2.0).
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You're right, he would have just thrown 3 INT's instead of taking the 3 sacks. You're right...... let's go back to THAT again...
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First off, what can you call in football besides run or pass?
Nevermind. When DA is in there the entire playbook is open and we are no longer one dimensional. You probably have never played football in your life because there is a HUUGE advantage when you are playing a one dimensional team vs a team with multiple options. With Quinn, you crowd the line, if they run, you have 8 guys there to fill gaps. When they pass, you have pressure on the QB and guys making tackles on the TE/RB but definately not the WRs, 4 yards before the 1st down marker.
This would be true assuming DA knows the playbook and is comfortable "opening it up". But you have absolutely nothing to base that on. He played hardly any in preseason and its AN ENTIRE NEW OFFENSIVE SCHEME / PLAYBOOK.
You all just need to chill the F out and evaluate the team as a whole after the bye week. This is a damn expansion team.
You could put Tom Brady in at QB and he couldn't do shit either.
AdaM said:
This would be true assuming DA knows the playbook and is comfortable "opening it up". But you have absolutely nothing to base that on. He played hardly any in preseason and its AN ENTIRE NEW OFFENSIVE SCHEME / PLAYBOOK.You all just need to chill the F out and evaluate the team as a whole after the bye week. This is a damn expansion team.
You could put Tom Brady in at QB and he couldn't do shit either.
DA started one single quarter in preseason... lots of yards and 19 points if I recall... too bad he can't handle the offense.
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