Relax... Sheesh
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Say what you want about DA. Just remember, he is the only QB on this team who has led this team to a winning season.
Looks like we are going to be the Lions (or close to it) of this season.
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The QB situation is the least of our problems. I saw a decent run defense through the 3rd quarter, other than that, all other dimensions are horrible. Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
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Masters said:
It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
It's a sad day when you start reading Lumbergh's posts and realize he COULD be right. All except the part about DA coming in and throwing a couple of touchdowns.
I still say Quinn is more like Jeff Garcia than he is Frye. Quinn has happy feet like Garcia. His throws remind of when Garcia was a Brown (the game he had in Dallas was one of the worst games by a QB I have ever witnessed). His arm-strength seems Garcia-esque. He has the mobility like Garcia.
Quinn looks to be a pure system QB and Dabolls "system" isn't how he originally described it would be. Get Quinn in a traditional WCO with three or four reliable, smart targets and he can be successful. However, he doesn't appear to be a guy who can lift those around him to a higher level. Much like Garcia.
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Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
I was being sarcastic...and I couldn't agree more.
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@lumbergh said:
Anderson is far and away a better QB than Quinn.AdaM even hardcore BQ Fluffers like yourself are starting to crack.
Shit, shep is so broke up about it he left the board.
They both suck right now. DA couldn't beat BQ out for the job, so what does that say about the state of his game? He had last year to prove he wasn't a one trick pony (i.e. long ball) and look how that turned out. Quinn looks terrible. It remains to be seen whether he can improve over the course of the season, but if not I don't look for either of them to be around next year. I think he will get every opportunity to showcase what he has over the next 10 weeks. If he craps the bed then you may get your DA wish, but only to showcase a trade. Mangini wants to build this team from the ground up and it will take time. Neither DA or BQ were "his guy", so I look for a complete revamp of theis offense if it doesn't start rolling by week 12. Just my 2 cents though.
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Not to worry though, we'll give this regime 2 more years to rebuild then cleanhouse with new management and the whole nine after making it up to mediocrity......The life of a Browns fan.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
that is too worry....3 years is just the beginning...hence this thread. unless you have patience, this is the life of a browns fan. you CANNOT keep firing coaches hoping that will make the team better....starting over every 3 years is the perpetual cycle that needs broken.
I normally agree, but, in the case of RAC and Savage, 3 years was about 2 years too long.
If Mangini starts looking like RAC, I don't want to give him three years.
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I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on this freaking piss and moan session, but you may want to dial it down a notch... you know, just a notch. I'm reading all of these threads and can't, for the life of me, figure out what the hell you're so pissed off about.
Virtually every interested party has been telling you that this team is not very good. It's going to struggle to win games. And, now you're pissed off because you disagreed with them? Now wait a minute. You thought the Browns were "X" good. It turns out they're "Y" good. And you're pissed at them? Why, because you don't know a lousy football team when you see one?
For crying out loud, your beloved Browns are undergoing a complete overhaul. Relax. You're looking at a team with 3 or 4 legitimate starters, 2 or 3 developmental projects, and 14 or 15 place holders. Good luck. What did you expect exactly?
Everyone in here, that I saw anyway, pegged the upside of this season at 8-8/9-7. And you guys are the fans! I told you a week ago, this team will have a hell of a time winning in the early part of the season. They'll be lucky to hit the bye week with 3 wins. If EVERYTHING goes right they could end up 7-9 or 8-8. Well, what you saw yesterday is what "praying for 8-8" looks like.
The offense is simplified. The play calling is boring. They're having problems executing the base offense. Offensive adjustments are almost impossible. The line play is tentative. The backs are indecisive. And the quarterback has that Sylvester the Cat look after his battles with a kangaroo he presumed to be a mouse. "Yup!"
The defense is stretched to it's limit. They can't really adjust away from their base defense. Every time they deviate from the base (let's call those "halftime adjustments"), the defense slows down and huge gashes develop. This is all true.
But you don't fix it by changing personnel week 2. You don't fix it by changing personnel this year.
You guys have gotten so used to Phil Savage jerking you off by bringing in expensive "talent" from around the league, as if this team was ever only 1 or 2 players away from the next level. They're not. They never were.
The fact that the Browns have virtually had a quarterback controversy every year gives you all the false hope that "Well, if the other guy was in there... blah blah blah." No! Not true... never was true. These quick fix artists that have been running this organization have been soft-spined appeasers. They somehow believed that the 2007 team was a good football team. They weren't. They got lucky. They played out of their heads. Whatever you want to call it.
Somebody has to change the culture in that building. Somebody has to be willing to tear this shanty of an organization down to the foundation and rebuild it. The Browns need someone who has a vision for the organization, and has no problem standing in front of the media and the fans, and saying "We're making progress," when all evidence points to the contrary. You need someone who is not interested in appeasing anyone. And in case no one has noticed, the Browns might just have that guy. But you've got to slow down.
This team has to get better. The 22 guys that are out there have to get better. They have to be on the field, make mistakes, and get better. That mass of prospects, journeymen, and a couple of starters has to develop into 6-10 starters by season's end. They have to get better. They have to fall down, and get back up, and get better.
And in case you're wondering, yesterday's game in Denver is what that looks like. The Browns front office has turned over 40% of the roster from a year ago. That's easy. You churn up the bottom end of the roster, bring in a few cast offs, cut loose a few never-gonna-be prospects, and voila, you've got half the roster turned over. It won't happen again next year. Oh they may turn over 20-30% of the roster. There's plenty of dead weight. But the change will be far more strategic. You will see an influx of young linebackers, young receivers, young running backs, young defensive backs, and quite possibly a new quarterback.
Relax.
This is who the Browns are right now. Relax. It will get better. This year even. It will get better.
The last decade has been filled with guys trying to turn this team into a winner without going through this. It's time for that to be over. It's like trying to lose weight without hitting the gym. Oh you might be able to Atkins your way to 20 or 30 lbs... but you're not really fit, are you? Relax. And be glad you have a guy in charge that is willing to take the heat while this team gets rebuilt the right way.
-jj
I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on this freaking piss and moan session, but you may want to dial it down a notch... you know, just a notch. I'm reading all of these threads and can't, for the life of me, figure out what the hell you're so pissed off about.
Virtually every interested party has been telling you that this team is not very good. It's going to struggle to win games. And, now you're pissed off because you disagreed with them? Now wait a minute. You thought the Browns were "X" good. It turns out they're "Y" good. And you're pissed at them? Why, because you don't know a lousy football team when you see one?
For crying out loud, your beloved Browns are undergoing a complete overhaul. Relax. You're looking at a team with 3 or 4 legitimate starters, 2 or 3 developmental projects, and 14 or 15 place holders. Good luck. What did you expect exactly?
Everyone in here, that I saw anyway, pegged the upside of this season at 8-8/9-7. And you guys are the fans! I told you a week ago, this team will have a hell of a time winning in the early part of the season. They'll be lucky to hit the bye week with 3 wins. If EVERYTHING goes right they could end up 7-9 or 8-8. Well, what you saw yesterday is what "praying for 8-8" looks like.
Edit: snipped for space and bolding as shown above
-jj
Thank Heaven. A reasonable voice in the aftermath of lastnight's "BitchandSlap" contest.
Just figured I better say that before the thread grows to 8 pages during lunch.
Thank you Jason. -
AdaM said:
And the very next year he was the WORST RATED QUARTERBACK IN THE ENTIRE NFL.point please?
I wonder what quinn's rating will be at the end of this season..if he lasts that long
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Does Detroit want to bench Stafford?
Are Heads getting ready to roll in Detroit?
Cle. and Det. are not that far apart in terms of restructuring the team.
Those who want to see a Miami stlye turnaround will be dissapointed.
I think Quinn is playing like a rookie on a bad team, you have to let Quinn play to see if he's got what it takes to turn it around.
For those clamouring to see DA again, why? Do you honestly think it would be any different? I do think you'll see DA start this year though. Quinn won't survive all the beatings projected from our o-line. In fact you may see Ratliff after DA has the snot knocked out of him too.
guns don't kill kids-pitt bulls do. -
They are not near as bad as they look, and I believe that. They are not as good as I was hoping, but nonetheless, there were plays left on the field yesterday. I'll give three examples besides the inevitable of Jamal getting 2 yards out of 25 from time to time.
1) Quinn throws a worm burner on the Furrey out to start the game that should have been six. What happened I don't know, but it sucked and was a flat out bad throw. Should have been 7-0.
2) Quinn slightly overthrows Furrey on a crossing route that would have went for six had Furrey come down with the ball. BTW, he can feel free to start looking like the guy we thought we had in preseason. Bad pass by Quinn but catchable, and I replayed about 4 times. He would have scored with just one half ass block.
3) Quinn not putting any loft on the ball to MoMass on the deep seam route. He was gone but Quinn threw into the back of the linebacker, which tells me he didn't read the safety coverage.
4) I'll add a fourth. Edwards was a whisker away from breaking a tackle early on and taking it to the house. Real close, but he couldn't keep his feet.
5) I'll add another: Cribbs dropping the ball right before the bad Mack snap. I can't help but think that field position ultimately led to the bad snap after the drop. Quinn can feel free to start recovering some of these fumbles BTW.
6) One more: Elvis Dumervil was the main difference in this game. Most of us knew coming in that St. Clair would be vulnerable to speed rushers, and Denver maxed that out to a tee. Our fault for not stopping it, but I'm not ready to cut St. Clair after one mismatch game like some of the asinine comments I saw based on emotion yesterday.
I'm very disappointed. Like most, I prefer to be optimistic to a fault every year. I still think they can turn this around, I don't think it's as dire as even JJ is portraying it. The NFL is about making plays and capitalizing on situations and I think they can get better. Denver was 9-0 in home openers coming in with an emotional Shannon Sharpe induction etc. It's hard to play out there, always has been. I for one wasn't expecting a victory but really hoping for it, since we have Crackmore coming up ready to feast on Quinn. BTW, JJ's Sylvester the Cat comparison is hilarious and right on point, the kid has definitely been knocked down a few. Perhaps he can relate more to what DA has been through now, and also how this shit ain't that easy against the big boys.
I'll be right back there next week getting pumped and ready to rattle off 6 in a row while hoping Pittspile gets they're asses beat, ain't nothing going to change.
PS One change I think that is due is moving Cribbs back to the coverage units and ending this WR experiment, at least for now. He isn't feeling it out there and if they are just going to have him settle into zones they may as well play the kids. Josh has no regard for where he is supposed to be or savvy, which has been pretty disappointing based on what he showed in camp. I for one was way off in my optimism for him getting it done out there.
Is a pig's ass pork? -
2.) Yeah, I think they would. (release Anderson, that is).
APPARENTLY ITS TIME FOR ROUND FOUR!!
IN 2007 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET CUT TO MAKE SPACE FOR KEN DORSEY
IN 2008 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET RELEASED BEFORE PHIL WOULD LOCK HIM UP IN A CONTRACT
IN 2009 I WAS TOLD THERE WAS NO WAY IN HELL ANDERSON WOULD GET HIS $5 MIL ROSTER BONUS AND WOULD INSTEAD BE RELEASED
NOW SOME JACKASS WHO'S TELLING US ""HE EXPECTED TO LOSE 27-6 TO DENVER"" IS TELLING ME THAT ANDERSON IS GONNA GET CUT AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS OVER.
ITS ON BITCH.
APPARENTLY ITS TIME FOR ROUND FOUR!!
IN 2007 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET CUT TO MAKE SPACE FOR KEN DORSEY
IN 2008 I WAS TOLD ANDERSON WOULD GET RELEASED BEFORE PHIL WOULD LOCK HIM UP IN A CONTRACT
IN 2009 I WAS TOLD THERE WAS NO WAY IN HELL ANDERSON WOULD GET HIS $5 MIL ROSTER BONUS AND WOULD INSTEAD BE RELEASED
NOW SOME JACKASS WHO'S TELLING US ""HE EXPECTED TO LOSE 27-6 TO DENVER"" IS TELLING ME THAT ANDERSON IS GONNA GET CUT AS SOON AS THE SEASON IS OVER.
ITS ON BITCH.
I quote the venerable Reggie Hammond, "Luther, are you angry with me?" I didn't say I expected the Browns to lose 27-6 to Denver. I did expect it to look a little clunky and out of whack. Denver had it together a little more than I expected. But I hadn't actually seen them this year, with the exception of some of the late game stuff in a preseason game against Chicago.
That said, OK, I don't know who would have wanted to release Derek Anderson in 2007 for Ken Dorsey. Regardless, it wasn't me. That doesn't make any sense. If you'd have told me that they wanted to release Rip Scherer in favor of Dorsey, I would've listened to that argument. But I'm not sure Dorsey should've had pads on.
In 2008? I was in the let him sign his tender and go RFA camp. And I still am. In my opinion, right now, a 1st and a 3rd would look a lot better than a $8 million backup quarterback. Instead, Phil Savage was convinced he was going to Baltimore (indirectly through Dallas, as I remember), and felt that would be a detriment to the Browns... or a PR disaster... I still can't figure out which one. It was probably a combination of the two. Both incorrect as it turns out.
In 2009... again I didn't tell you he wasn't going to get his bonus. There was nothing to lose. There was plenty of room under the cap... and oh by the way, he might have to play. Was I surprised that they made the $5 million commitment for the season? Not really. The new regime had very little time to make these sorts of assessments. So, why unplug a guy who's basically already paid for? It's not like they were going to go out and max out on free agents. So bring Anderson back, and see what he can do. That makes some sense, actually.
Plus, if you watch Anderson work out, it's hard to not wonder what he might be capable of. His arm is intoxicating. Every coach has that instinct to try to harness raw talent when they see it. I get that. Trust me, if they thought, at this point, the project was worth the investment, he'd be starting. Mangini could've very easily cut Quinn loose, or benched him, or whatever he wanted. He didn't. And I pretty much get why.
So, if that makes me a "jackass" or a "bitch" in your opinion, then that probably has something to do with you, and very little to do with me. But it sure is expressive. Good on ya! Have a nice day.
-jj
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Does Detroit want to bench Stafford?
Are Heads getting ready to roll in Detroit?
Cle. and Det. are not that far apart in terms of restructuring the team.
Those who want to see a Miami stlye turnaround will be dissapointed.
I think Quinn is playing like a rookie on a bad team, you have to let Quinn play to see if he's got what it takes to turn it around.
For those clamouring to see DA again, why? Do you honestly think it would be any different? I do think you'll see DA start this year though. Quinn won't survive all the beatings projected from our o-line. In fact you may see Ratliff after DA has the snot knocked out of him too.
For those clamouring to see DA again, why? Do you honestly think it would be any different?
It is an absolute certainty.
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For those clamouring to see DA again, why? Do you honestly think it would be any different?
It is an absolute certainty.
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Masters said:
It has to do w/ money. CLE isn't going to pay DA that amount next year (or take that cap hit), just as they are not going to pay BQ his amount either w/ his current play (notice Jason said BQ could be gone too).so who's gonna play QB in your fantasy world? Josh Cribbs? TIM FRIGGEN TEBOW?
apparently this team has the worst right side of the OL of all time
it also has the worst OC of all time
worst running game of all time
the least overall talent of all time
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
we've been thru this before (CHARLIE FRYE) and we know how it's gonna end for the Quinnster.
..............so what's BQ Nation gonna say when Anderson comes in and throws a couple TDs?
He didn't throw any in preseason with his starting gig on the line. I suspect he'd have 4-5 more than Quinn this season, but the problem is he cannot follow up a good game with another one.
DA is what he is - a decent 8 games starter. He is not someone to build the team around. You're the ONLY person that thinks he is.
He could not average 140 YPG last season in 6 games. Why is that????
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or maybe they go 8-8 rather than 2-14
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
Jason, What's your evaluation of Quinn? If we pick in top 5 in the draft...We must take a Qb. Not just my opinion but a provable and historical fact...if you are picking in the top 5 your QB sucks!
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Wow, Jason, will you hang around more please? I'd like to follow the dysfunction that is our team with more fans like you who actually understand what we're watching here.
Guys, this is concrete being laid right here. It's hot, ugly and dirty and ain't fun to watch.
Unless you happen to like the idea that something is going to built on TOP of the concrete, that is. Unless you can take a step back and visualize what will be there somedday and have some trust in the architects (Mangini and Kokinis) and the workers (the current players). You don't have to like the landowner (Lerner) or even the people who will live in the house (the future players) eventually.
So stop screaming at the concrete pourers for not being painters, plumbers or roofers and have a little faith that something IS being built here.
Jason is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that we've been sold a bill of goods by each "management" team since '99. None of them was in this for the long haul and it showed.
Mangini and Kokinis obviously have been empowered to do the very job we're watching here. I'm sorry, but you don't move to Cleveland with young kids without some assurance they'll get a few years to grow up in one place, even if you're an NFL coach. I don't believe that any coach looks to take a job just to get fired.
I happen to like watching construction. I like the process, I like the different experiences, I like being part of seeing something get built.
So just enjoy the show and stop complaining about what it ISN'T going to be this year.
And as JJ said: what else did you expect anyway?
Wow, Jason, will you hang around more please? I'd like to follow the dysfunction that is our team with more fans like you who actually understand what we're watching here.
Guys, this is concrete being laid right here. It's hot, ugly and dirty and ain't fun to watch.
Unless you happen to like the idea that something is going to built on TOP of the concrete, that is. Unless you can take a step back and visualize what will be there somedday and have some trust in the architects (Mangini and Kokinis) and the workers (the current players). You don't have to like the landowner (Lerner) or even the people who will live in the house (the future players) eventually.
So stop screaming at the concrete pourers for not being painters, plumbers or roofers and have a little faith that something IS being built here.
Jason is ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that we've been sold a bill of goods by each "management" team since '99. None of them was in this for the long haul and it showed.
Mangini and Kokinis obviously have been empowered to do the very job we're watching here. I'm sorry, but you don't move to Cleveland with young kids without some assurance they'll get a few years to grow up in one place, even if you're an NFL coach. I don't believe that any coach looks to take a job just to get fired.
I happen to like watching construction. I like the process, I like the different experiences, I like being part of seeing something get built.
So just enjoy the show and stop complaining about what it ISN'T going to be this year.
And as JJ said: what else did you expect anyway?
I'd love to buy into this notion that again we are rebuilding, that this is a "new" foundation....but these guys are pro's. Miami? Atlanta? Jets? I don't buy it!
Our new foundation? Three second rounders...ON THE BENCH...(wow...great Draft so far) these guys better play some this year and make an impact. Kokinis on notice. BAD DRAFTING IS EXACTLY WHY WE ARE IN THIS POSITION....And with three second rounders riding pine....??? Seems like more of the same...let's see these guys on the field and not RAC em' then learn a year from now they aren't the answer...Veikune? Mass, Robiskie...if they are the future BRING em' on! if we really are a 6-10 team...get them PT and find out what they are Now, instead of after next year's season!
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Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
Jason, What's your evaluation of Quinn? If we pick in top 5 in the draft...We must take a Qb. Not just my opinion but a provable and historical fact...if you are picking in the top 5 your QB sucks!
Jason, What's your evaluation of Quinn? If we pick in top 5 in the draft...We must take a Qb. Not just my opinion but a provable and historical fact...if you are picking in the top 5 your QB sucks!
It's certainly possible. I think you have to look at the next 14 games. I think all the evidence the braintrust needs will be out there on the field in plain view. If Quinn's games 15 and 16 look like game 2... then you can bet quarterback will be at the top of the offseason list. That was just not an NFL-type effort.
But, I'm not sure the number of wins and losses will necessarily dictate what happens with Quinn. There have been instances where teams at the top of the draft didn't need to replace the quarterback. As a matter of fact, history tells us that you usually get 1 or 2 more cracks at it after you draft your "franchise" quarterback. The Raiders drafted Jemarcus Russel in 2007, and picked 4th the following year... but even if someone is not "bust potential", it happens.
In 2001 the Falcons drafted Michael Vick, and (had they not traded it to get him) would've drafted 5th in 2002. The Eagles drafted Donovan McNabb in 1999, and proceeded to draft 6th in 2000. The Colts drafted Peyton Manning in 1998, drafted 4th in 1999.
Now Quinn's not any of those guys. But he's also not likely the guy you've seen the last two weeks. You have to kind of play it out. You look at his assembled work at the end of the season and make an evaluation. The front office is going to have to determine what's the best course for the team going into 2010? It may well be a change at quarterback. It may not be. It's hard saying at this point. But that's why you don't make these decisions after week 2.
-jj
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or maybe they go 8-8 rather than 2-14
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
Even if that were possible (let's just call it "highly unlikely") to what end? So you can release him in January? Derek Anderson is a boon to a bad team and a liability to a good one. It's like trying to put your basketball team over the top by adding Jason Kapono. You look like a genius some nights. But, over the long haul, it doesn't actually improve your team.
-jj
we are a bad team.
.jpg.a1a2b9a0c33008fdaf4097d8fe2cfd64.jpg "Riffer X"){kind=avatar}
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