How long does the new regime have?
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How long do you think Mangini and Kokonis have to make progress? For example, what if this team goes 2-14 this year and 4-12 next year?
IMO, they may have only 2yrs max to show progress, esp. if none of the higher draft picks appear to be breaking out. There was significant excitement when Savage was brought in (finally, a guy who can evaluate talent!), and there was still strong support for him a year later when he was almost fired (which, in retrospect, would've been better for the franchise). However, the support isn't deep for the new regime due to the coach being hired before the GM, and general dislike of Mangini. This is going to create pressure on Lerner to make a move sooner rather than later if things don't improve. These guys have to be feeling a tremendous amount of pressure.
I know it's early and I hope it doesn't come down to this, but for some reason it's rattling around my head as a distinct possibility.
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4 years with consistent improvement, but 2-3 without. I know by the end of the season we will see tremendous improvement mangini knows this game give him time. I know it looks bad but its always darkest just before dawn and I gotta feeling daybreak will be here soon.
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More than 2009. I give them 2009 and 2010. Be competetive and play for the future.
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How long do you think Mangini and Kokonis have to make progress? For example, what if this team goes 2-14 this year and 4-12 next year?
IMO, they may have only 2yrs max to show progress, esp. if none of the higher draft picks appear to be breaking out. There was significant excitement when Savage was brought in (finally, a guy who can evaluate talent!), and there was still strong support for him a year later when he was almost fired (which, in retrospect, would've been better for the franchise). However, the support isn't deep for the new regime due to the coach being hired before the GM, and general dislike of Mangini. This is going to create pressure on Lerner to make a move sooner rather than later if things don't improve. These guys have to be feeling a tremendous amount of pressure.
I know it's early and I hope it doesn't come down to this, but for some reason it's rattling around my head as a distinct possibility.
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3 seasons if they don't improve and win at least 7 by the end of the third. Gradual improvement will keep their jobs for a while. As soon as they get one good year and backslide, Lerner and the fans will be all over their asses and it'll be over.
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3-5 years to make this consistant playoff contender. 4-12,7-9,11-5,8-8,14-2 is my optimistic outlook.
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Gradual improvement can be deadly in our situation.
Improve within next year or go home, I'd say.
Two years is the maximum this fan base can allow this management to bring back results.
And results in our situation is showing you can beat Pit and Bal on a regular basis and show you can be a consistent playoff contender.
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Gradual improvement can be deadly in our situation.
Improve within next year or go home, I'd say.
Two years is the maximum this fan base can allow this management to bring back results.
And results in our situation is showing you can beat Pit and Bal on a regular basis and show you can be a consistent playoff contender.
Gradual improvement can be deadly in our situation.
Improve within next year or go home, I'd say.
Two years is the maximum this fan base can allow this management to bring back results.
And results in our situation is showing you can beat Pit and Bal on a regular basis and show you can be a consistent playoff contender.
The problem with that is the terrible talent level on this team. While you may get a nice fluke year, sometimes it takes longer to win consistantly.
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I give him 3 years. If he has a winning record by year 3, he gets an extention. I just pray the Lerners leave the football decisions up to the football guys. They have to let him build the team up. The good thing is, even if he is out in 3, he shuold have this roster completely flipped and in the right direction. I have faith in this guy. Just as important as scouting the Browns is taking a look at the Jets. And Sexxy Rexxy is having a blast twith what Mangini built up in NY. It's like Tomlin after Cowher. Good coach but an even better roster. MAngini knows what he's doing.
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Anything less than 3 isn't a fair look.
Now, in that 3rd year, if we are 1-10, something may be done at that point, though I have never really seen the point of canning a coach mid season...might as well just wait for the season to end.
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I would say 3 years minimum with generous leeway for an extension if there are signs of overall improvement. We are going through the same thing in Denver, and despite the fact that I dislike many of the moves McDaniels has made, the last thing we need is a coaching carousel. It's bad enough we lost stability at the QB position. One year turnarounds are rare, the recent past is the exception to the rule not the standard. Rather than flail for years looking for the quick fix, I would rather see them go long term and really solve the problem instead of hoping for a lucky break. Criticise the coach, rail at the top of your lungs that his latest move is the most boneheaded in a substantial history of observable Retardation, but keep in mind the next guy could be just as bad, worse, or just might not have the time to prove he is better if you keep switching coaches every two years...
On a side note I haven't seen anywhere else to post it, that was a good game on Sunday. You guys have a lot of work to do, but Braylon at least looked to be giving good effort, had some nice catches, and your D got a few stops against what was a very good offense last year. I think the Cincy game was an abnormality, and think our offense will prove to be much better in some of the upcoming games. You guys will get there, keep the faith. Good luck against the Ravens next week, I will be watching and pulling for ya.
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then Mangi is probably 1 and done.
Any half way decent coach "should" be able to get at least 2 wins. 2-14 indicates more than just lack of talent.
guns don't kill kids-pitt bulls do. -
Anything less than 3 isn't a fair look.
Now, in that 3rd year, if we are 1-10, something may be done at that point, though I have never really seen the point of canning a coach mid season...might as well just wait for the season to end.
Anything less than 3 isn't a fair look.
Now, in that 3rd year, if we are 1-10, something may be done at that point, though I have never really seen the point of canning a coach mid season...might as well just wait for the season to end.
'Peen - you were one of the guys saying 'win now' - what happened, or were you being sarcastic. Just curious.
Part of me says 'win now' - we have seen other teams recently win and continue to win, but those teams had talent and were just poorly coached. In the Browns case, we have little talent AND we were poorly coached.
I think at the end of year 2 we'll know if this is going anywhere.
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Any half way decent coach "should" be able to get at least 2 wins. 2-14 indicates more than just lack of talent.
The more i think about it, give them the same leash Quinn gets.
Not realistic i know
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I would consider the schedule before thinking about the leash.
Last year we had a very tough schedule and we were having injury problems too. The final few games were played without QB's. This year we have not so many injury problems or a touch schedule but sadly not enough talent in the roster to make the impact. But that is no reason for the offense to be jack shit. I will give till the end of this year to see if the offense improves.
If the offense is still caught in the same level then I will ask Mangini to change the OC or pack up bags. Mangini and Kokins though will be given 2 years to prove themselves. Draft choices, free agency and competitiveness are what they will be judged by.
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@jadbf said:
To answer to the OP sepcifically.If it's 2-14 and 4-12 in consecutive years, there have better been some good injury excuses or something in that second year. While I don't believe some that think you can turn a team into a winner in one year, (If I hear the Atlanta or Baltimore or Miami examples one more time I think I'll choke someone. Look at those teams the year BEFORE they were bad). I do believe you need to show more signs of improvement than 4-12 in your second year.
other than that I agree with others. He gets 3 years as long as he showing some improvement each year.
Thats a good common sense look at it JADBF, but if we regress to 2-14 with a less difficult schedule......
I'm still very optimistic that we can get 6-8 wins this year, the Denver gm was one of our penciled in wins though.
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Turns out this KyleProBowler is a jackass not just on this board
""True to form, the whine from that bastion of baseball knowledge KlyeProBoller contiunes. Do you read anything other than your ubiquitous whining negative lame postings? If you did do some homework you find just a little bit of the money spent, even though you say the O's spent less for "all out prospects than some teams did on two"...if you can take a minute away from thinking of your next negative whine, read and LEARN something before speaking about something you haven't got a clue about. Just a few of the picks and the rounds they were chosen. ""
Cutting school is not cool, now get to class kid.
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How long do you think Mangini and Kokonis have to make progress? For example, what if this team goes 2-14 this year and 4-12 next year?
IMO, they may have only 2yrs max to show progress, esp. if none of the higher draft picks appear to be breaking out. There was significant excitement when Savage was brought in (finally, a guy who can evaluate talent!), and there was still strong support for him a year later when he was almost fired (which, in retrospect, would've been better for the franchise). However, the support isn't deep for the new regime due to the coach being hired before the GM, and general dislike of Mangini. This is going to create pressure on Lerner to make a move sooner rather than later if things don't improve. These guys have to be feeling a tremendous amount of pressure.
I know it's early and I hope it doesn't come down to this, but for some reason it's rattling around my head as a distinct possibility.
I think you just look around the league at how the other franchises handle it. Most coaches seem to get about 2 or 3 seasons to show that everything is going the right direction.
Lerner has his unorthodox moments but he seems middle of the road regarding how much grace his coaches get.
How long do you think Mangini and Kokonis have to make progress? For example, what if this team goes 2-14 this year and 4-12 next year?
IMO, they may have only 2yrs max to show progress, esp. if none of the higher draft picks appear to be breaking out. There was significant excitement when Savage was brought in (finally, a guy who can evaluate talent!), and there was still strong support for him a year later when he was almost fired (which, in retrospect, would've been better for the franchise). However, the support isn't deep for the new regime due to the coach being hired before the GM, and general dislike of Mangini. This is going to create pressure on Lerner to make a move sooner rather than later if things don't improve. These guys have to be feeling a tremendous amount of pressure.
I know it's early and I hope it doesn't come down to this, but for some reason it's rattling around my head as a distinct possibility.
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Anything less than 3 isn't a fair look.
Now, in that 3rd year, if we are 1-10, something may be done at that point, though I have never really seen the point of canning a coach mid season...might as well just wait for the season to end.
'Peen - you were one of the guys saying 'win now' - what happened, or were you being sarcastic. Just curious.
Part of me says 'win now' - we have seen other teams recently win and continue to win, but those teams had talent and were just poorly coached. In the Browns case, we have little talent AND we were poorly coached.
I think at the end of year 2 we'll know if this is going anywhere.
'Peen - you were one of the guys saying 'win now' - what happened, or were you being sarcastic. Just curious.
Part of me says 'win now' - we have seen other teams recently win and continue to win, but those teams had talent and were just poorly coached. In the Browns case, we have little talent AND we were poorly coached.
I think at the end of year 2 we'll know if this is going anywhere.
No...I want to win now...always have.
I can go with what you say by the end of year two.....sure...we win 2 this year and 2 the next. no need to go much further, but one has to be realistic, and 3..or at least a portion of that 3rd year is pretty standard as it really takes a 3 year cycle of drafts and FA periods for a coach to get the players he wants. It just can't be done any faster.
So, now that we are on this path, there is no going back so we have to let it play out....like it or not.
The one and done attitude I have really rests more on individual players performance. Players these days receive enough top coaching by the time they are a pro to be able to tell if you have a player or just a guy.
Something as large as a coach, his philosophy, system, and ability to bring in talent takes a little longer than a year or two.....but ok...to compromise, as I said, if at the end of next season we still look like crap and don't look 66% of the way there, I won't cry if we go another direction, but that does mean you start at zero again. No new coach continues to build on what the last coach did unless he is talking over a good team much like what happened to Switzer in Dallas.
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I really agree with you...it's going to have to take something really bad to be in that 3rd year as I originally posted...it is a process that just has to happen and it can't be rushed no matter how much you might want that to happen.
Oh...I see you have 4 posts...welcome to the board.
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