Take Tim Couch out and put in Derek Anderson
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If DA is not put in the lineup within two weeks, Manginni will have a full scale MUTINY in his locker room. I expect Braylon to start it. This is Braylons contract year and Quinn will cost him millions at this rate. Seems like Quinns success is more important than the overall teams success to management. Mutiny by end of week 4.
If DA is not put in the lineup within two weeks, Manginni will have a full scale MUTINY in his locker room. I expect Braylon to start it. This is Braylons contract year and Quinn will cost him millions at this rate. Seems like Quinns success is more important than the overall teams success to management. Mutiny by end of week 4.
Braylon? Five receptions for 90 yards? The problem isn't Edwards- the problem is there's no one else right now that's proved they're a legit #2 wideout, maybe even a legit #3.
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You crack me up!!!! You're a hopeless DA homer. Yep, end of discussion. Anderson has only not progressed, he's regressed. Scott Mitchell syndrome in my book. Can DA overcome his limitations and return to Pro Bowl status? I'll give that about as much chance of happening as Kameron Wimbley getting 12 sacks in a season again. Not willing to accept the possibility Anderson's been figured out, just like Wimbley has? Take away his one dimension (deep ball) and force him to throw short stuff. Can't do it, Just like teams figured out take away Wimbley's outside speed rush, and he's a one trick pony. Quinn's lack of arm strength is REAL in your mind. The reason BQ is in there now is because Mangini thinks he gives him the best chance to win, which incidentally gives him the best chance to keep his job. You really think EM is influenced by what teenage girls think? What a hoot! Oh, BTW, the coach that wouldn't start Quinn is currently unemployed, mainly because he couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**.
What cracks me up is that everyone agrees the Browns have drafted bad for 10 years except for Quinn. You know, the guy who hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?
I'm not a die-hard DA guy, he just happens to be what we have to choose from right now. And I just think he makes the team better. Granted, not great, but better. Let's not forget how much better he moved the offense in preseason than Quinn did. He threw more picks, yes. But how would you perform if your boss was standing behind you saying "don't mess up! Make a play! Be outstanding if you want a chance! Don't mess up! Don't mess up!" I just feel like given the guys we have on this team, he is the one that has the most potential and should be coached up.
And, I never said the coaches care who sells the most jerseys, I said the owner does. And don't forget, he's the OWNER.
I like how the previous regime "couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**." But somehow you think he nailed it with Quinn?! Who, like I said, hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. That my friend, is hilarious.
What cracks me up is that everyone agrees the Browns have drafted bad for 10 years except for Quinn. You know, the guy who hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?
I'm not a die-hard DA guy, he just happens to be what we have to choose from right now. And I just think he makes the team better. Granted, not great, but better. Let's not forget how much better he moved the offense in preseason than Quinn did. He threw more picks, yes. But how would you perform if your boss was standing behind you saying "don't mess up! Make a play! Be outstanding if you want a chance! Don't mess up! Don't mess up!" I just feel like given the guys we have on this team, he is the one that has the most potential and should be coached up.
And, I never said the coaches care who sells the most jerseys, I said the owner does. And don't forget, he's the OWNER.
I like how the previous regime "couldn't recognize talent if it walked up to him and bit him in his fat a**." But somehow you think he nailed it with Quinn?! Who, like I said, hasn't improved at all in 3 years and shows that he simply does not have the tools to play at this level. That my friend, is hilarious.
I've never said Quinn looks great, I'll I'm saying is Quinn deserves his legit shot to prove he's a real NFL qb. Apparently the coaching staff does too. I'll defer to Mangini's talent assessment instead of yours- we'll just have to agree to disagree. FWIW, I think the plug will get pulled on Quinn if he's still stinking it up and nearing the 70% of snaps escalator in his contract. Yeah, Randy Lerner is coaching from the owner's box- I doubt it. DA got his chance, and stunk the place out last year- worst qb rating in the NFL.
BTW, I'm no Quinn pumper- I HATE Notre Dame, I about did cartwheels when they took Joe Thomas instead of BQ, and my mantra the whole winter before that draft was "It will be a sin if the Browns draft Quinn". That said, it would be nice if Quinn can develop, because if he doesn't we're going to have to waste yet another first round pick on a qb in '10, instead of going after a very much needed stud LBer.
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Wow, I got the braintrust of the DA crew responding now (Lum & Sev).
Read my post again VERY slowly.
I didn't say Quinn was better. What I said is that the staff feels he's better (and/or likes his potential ceiling better). Its the exact line of reasoning that Lum himself preached to us for the 1.5 seasons DA was starting under RAC: listen to the coach. Mangini watched all the tape, watched all the practices, watched all of preseason, consulted with his staff and selected Quinn to start. Quinn won the competition (or DA lost it if you prefer). Either way, if Quinn is a collosal flame out what does that tell you?
I'll save you the DA homer response of "Mangini must suck at evaluating QB's". You'd have to lump in Ozzie Newsome and the entire Raven's staff along with RAC and his entire staff (remember, they selected Frye over DA). It sure looks a lot more likely that professional NFL talent evaluators (with their jobs at stake) are leery of DA both prior to and after his 2007 results. That's what the evidence tells us.
Sev, I'm really at a loss to try and discuss this topic with you. I can't believe that you honestly think that a) the distant owner has MANDATED that BQ start and/or that
appeasing fans by letting popularity dictate personnel decisions is in Mangini's best interest. Seriously, if you believe either of those things you should turn in your driver's license as I wouldn't trust you to properly interpret street signs. -
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I've watched Quinn in 2 training camps, 2 preseasons, and four games and have always said the same thing. He holds the ball too long, he refuses to attempt throws past 10 yards, he's uncomfortable, he has a week arm, and the team doesn't respect him. It hasn't changed yet and I don't think it will. All his supporters can say is "DA has had some bad games and Quinn is atheletic". WHAT?!
You've answered your own question right here.
The problem is the "I" above.
The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.
What else do you need to know?
Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.
You've answered your own question right here.
The problem is the "I" above.
The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.
What else do you need to know?
Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.
Okay I get it I don't know what I'm watching and am unqualified. But I already addressed why I think he was picked and it has more to do with getting this project out of the way than what was shown on the field. With that said, I do believe we will need a new QB and since nobody wants to trade good QBs, we are going to have to draft one (which I hate doing by the way) really soon. Also, one, probably both of our guys will have to be dealt before next year.
You still haven't told me what Quinn has done to show he can play in the NFL. I guess you will never answer that because so far nobody can. And I am eagerly awaiting to hear what you have seen that I haven't.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
Mop, I'm in full agreement with your last post. Its the pining for DA as a long term solution that boggles my mind. Its far more likely that that ship has sailed vs DA somehow developing into a franchise QB.
As for Quinn, the "evidence" is hardly compelling. What we know is that he played for a major college program and excelled in terms of the 2 best (still weak overall, but best) indicators of NFL success: number of starts and completion percentage. He appears to have all the traits you'd like to see (hard worker, good arm, athletic, etc.). However, the first two starts this year have been underwhelming to say the least.
I want to see more before casting judgement and I'm hoping like hell we see good things because the alternative in my opinion is drafting a QB...... again.
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Wow, I got the braintrust of the DA crew responding now (Lum & Sev).
Read my post again VERY slowly.
I didn't say Quinn was better. What I said is that the staff feels he's better (and/or likes his potential ceiling better). Its the exact line of reasoning that Lum himself preached to us for the 1.5 seasons DA was starting under RAC: listen to the coach. Mangini watched all the tape, watched all the practices, watched all of preseason, consulted with his staff and selected Quinn to start. Quinn won the competition (or DA lost it if you prefer). Either way, if Quinn is a collosal flame out what does that tell you?
I'll save you the DA homer response of "Mangini must suck at evaluating QB's". You'd have to lump in Ozzie Newsome and the entire Raven's staff along with RAC and his entire staff (remember, they selected Frye over DA). It sure looks a lot more likely that professional NFL talent evaluators (with their jobs at stake) are leery of DA both prior to and after his 2007 results. That's what the evidence tells us.
Sev, I'm really at a loss to try and discuss this topic with you. I can't believe that you honestly think that a) the distant owner has MANDATED that BQ start and/or that
appeasing fans by letting popularity dictate personnel decisions is in Mangini's best interest. Seriously, if you believe either of those things you should turn in your driver's license as I wouldn't trust you to properly interpret street signs. -
If Quinn flames out then he's in the same category as DA for me: longshot to be "coached" up.
Ask yourself this question, would you bet on a guy developing into an upper echelon QB if after four years and nearly 30 starts (DA) he was unable to beat out an unproven QB with 3 starts? Is it possible for DA? Sure. I just don't think its a good bet.
If Quinn flames out this year then he'll be in a similar camp for me. Possible but not probable.
This team needs better odds than that.
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and then met with Lerner who told him to start Quinn.
Source.
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Mop, I'm in full agreement with your last post. Its the pining for DA as a long term solution that boggles my mind. Its far more likely that that ship has sailed vs DA somehow developing into a franchise QB.
As for Quinn, the "evidence" is hardly compelling. What we know is that he played for a major college program and excelled in terms of the 2 best (still weak overall, but best) indicators of NFL success: number of starts and completion percentage. He appears to have all the traits you'd like to see (hard worker, good arm, athletic, etc.). However, the first two starts this year have been underwhelming to say the least.
I want to see more before casting judgement and I'm hoping like hell we see good things because the alternative in my opinion is drafting a QB...... again.
What we know is that he played for a major college program and excelled in terms of the 2 best (still weak overall, but best) indicators of NFL success: number of starts and completion percentage.
number of starts and friggen completion percentage?
who needs shep around when Greythan can make up bullshit like this all on his own?
maybe Greythan is shep's puppet.
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@jadbf said:
I'll go you even one more. and Masters and Jason have made more compelling arguements to convince me even more.Whether or not DA can develop into a franchise QB or even a stable starting QB somewhere is irrevelent. That ship has sailed from Cleveland.
Maybe he resurects himself in a new city, I just never see it happening here.
I agree with this for two reasons:
1: That's a hell of a lot of $$$ to pay a back-up and I highly doubt DA is going to renegotiate. And I wouldn't blame him. Especially if he still feels he's a starter somewhere else.
2: I think DA got really ticked off last year with the fans. I think this whole debate has soured him as much as it has many of the fans. If I were him, I would definitely take my chances with a new team. Start fresh and have fun.
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If Quinn flames out then he's in the same category as DA for me: longshot to be "coached" up.
Ask yourself this question, would you bet on a guy developing into an upper echelon QB if after four years and nearly 30 starts (DA) he was unable to beat out an unproven QB with 3 starts? Is it possible for DA? Sure. I just don't think its a good bet.
If Quinn flames out this year then he'll be in a similar camp for me. Possible but not probable.
This team needs better odds than that.
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And you never answered me about what you have EVER seen in Quinn that tells you ha has what it takes to play at this level? Inaccurately translating my perfectly clear english into smears doesn't answer the question or address the topic. What's wrong? Is "analysis" difficult for you? Just answer the questions. I am still very open to changing my mind but I see ne reason to.
You said:
What has anyone ever seen in BQ that says he can play in the NFL? Or what have we seen that says he is even good?
That's a pretty strong implication that Quinn doesn't belong in the NFL. Nobody has to translate [sic] anything. Trust me. You're not speaking in any kind of code.
Be a man, stand up behind your words, or I'll keep throwing them in your face.
After that, we can have a conversation, like adults, and I can answer your question (that 50 members including myself have answered at least 20 time each).
But since the search feature of the board is clearly whipping your ass right now, take a look at Greythans post (about 3 up) for the only answer you need to worry about this season.
You said:
That's a pretty strong implication that Quinn doesn't belong in the NFL. Nobody has to translate [sic] anything. Trust me. You're not speaking in any kind of code.
Be a man, stand up behind your words, or I'll keep throwing them in your face.
After that, we can have a conversation, like adults, and I can answer your question (that 50 members including myself have answered at least 20 time each).
But since the search feature of the board is clearly whipping your ass right now, take a look at Greythans post (about 3 up) for the only answer you need to worry about this season.
Listen, I can only go by what I have seen and he just can't play on this level. I will GLAAADLY admit I'm wrong if he manages to make a difference on any team in the league. I hope I am wrong and that difference happens here. But right now, there is nothing he does that is saying he has any of the essential tools to do the job.
I also refered back to Geythans post and basically it says "Quinn is in so he's obviously better!" Not only does that not answer the question, but it also way over simplifies the discussion.
Now, since I clearly don't know what I'm watching maybe you can help me? What is it that you have seen from him that says he can do this? You can just borrow one of the 50 other people's answer if you need help. Or you can use this handy guide below.
Which stock answer will mopaji get from Legacy Fan?
A. Another 5th grade insult
B. The silent treatment
C. "We don't know yet"
or
D. I refuse to look or listen objectively because I really need to justify this $120.00 Jersey purchase. And since I already scratched off the Holcombe to make it read Quinn the fabric is starting wear a little. And I just can't bank on Tebow wearing #10 next year.
"Chances are, if you think Jay Leno is funny, I don't care for you as a person" - Peter Griffin -
Lum, the number of starts and completion percentage remark is from a study that was referenced on these boards 2 years ago. It was a statistical analysis from a source I can't recall, but it wasn't anyone from Oregon or South Bend.
What's your point anyway? The poster asked for what evidence may exist supporting Quinn's potential. I gave a pretty generic response.
I'm still waiting on the source on the Lerner mandating Quinn start. Stan's right, you are SO valuable here.
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Mop, what more reliable evidence is there than the depth chart? Seriously. Coaches are far from infaliable but the generally pick the best player at each position to start. They're usually right.
You'd rather I rely on your evaluation? Really?
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Lum, the number of starts and completion percentage remark is from a study that was referenced on these boards 2 years ago. It was a statistical analysis from a source I can't recall, but it wasn't anyone from Oregon or South Bend.
What's your point anyway? The poster asked for what evidence may exist supporting Quinn's potential. I gave a pretty generic response.
I'm still waiting on the source on the Lerner mandating Quinn start. Stan's right, you are SO valuable here.
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You've answered your own question right here.
The problem is the "I" above.
The current coaching staff "watched Quinn in training camp, preseason, and four games (tape I'm sure)" and picked him over DA.
What else do you need to know?
Point is, if you think Quinn sucks then we need a new QB. DA's already riding the pine behind him.
Okay I get it I don't know what I'm watching and am unqualified. But I already addressed why I think he was picked and it has more to do with getting this project out of the way than what was shown on the field. With that said, I do believe we will need a new QB and since nobody wants to trade good QBs, we are going to have to draft one (which I hate doing by the way) really soon. Also, one, probably both of our guys will have to be dealt before next year.
You still haven't told me what Quinn has done to show he can play in the NFL. I guess you will never answer that because so far nobody can. And I am eagerly awaiting to hear what you have seen that I haven't.
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DA is not as good as any of the QBs in our division; he just lacks consistency. The jury is out on Quinn, although it doesn't look promising at the moment. I think you give Quinn the year and evaluate him. If he doesn't pan out, start looking for a QB.
If you hadn't spent a year and a half already evaluating DA, I'd say that Quinn has a shorter leash... but DA has proven what I said above and so it's time to evaluate Quinn.
This year is a lost cause due to the overall lack of talent on the team, so imo all you are using this year for is to develop players and evaluate what you have. Putting in DA with hopes that he leads us to 6 wins... what good does that do?
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Lum, the number of starts and completion percentage remark is from a study that was referenced on these boards 2 years ago. It was a statistical analysis from a source I can't recall, but it wasn't anyone from Oregon or South Bend.
What's your point anyway? The poster asked for what evidence may exist supporting Quinn's potential. I gave a pretty generic response.
I'm still waiting on the source on the Lerner mandating Quinn start. Stan's right, you are SO valuable here.
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