Its Not Just the Right Side Of The Oline
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I keep reading all these post about St. Clair sucks, Womack sucks, its the right side of the line thats killing us, people when watching the game look at the entire line play, I know everyone wants to praise Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach but do people realize how few yards we get when we run left or up the middle, also 2 of the sacks came from the left side.
Thomas and Steinbach are much better at pass protecting than run blocking, both have not done a good job of pass blocking the 1st 2 games, in order for the line to create holes we need all 5 members working as a unit all you need is one breakdown and the entire line looks bad. notice how few times we see this line have the guards pull or trap.
For some reason many fans have overrated this Oline, yea we have problems on the right side because neither Womack or St.Clair are athletic and neither have quick feet but watch the games and we get very little push from Steinbach and Thomas in run blocking.
While people keep saying draft a right guard and right tackle, this team needs to draft a bigger guard on the left side and a bit athletic guard on the right side.
I saw a post recently that suggested moving Steinbach to tackle and that may not be a bad idea also considering that Steinbach is paid left tackle money he might make a very good right tackle but IMO Eric Steinbach is one of the guys who will not be back next season because he is paid too much just to play guard.
Also a running back with speed who hits the hole quicker would help the oline look much better
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The line needs time to work together.. I keep thinking of the Chiefs when Marty was there..the OL was great cuz they kept the same guys together for like 6-7 years.. This cannot be overstated... Our OL needs more talent...not denying that.. but we have to ride with what we have.. I still believe they will get better ..We tossed together a bunch of guys who have not played together with a rookie center.. St. Claire was a turnstyle last week. The left side needs a RB to chip/help or TE over there at least until they get things straightened out...
Jamal showed in Minni when there was a hole he can hit it.. Harrison is quick but he got nowhere last week either.. Davis.. Who knows..we have not seen enough of him in real games to know what we have.. I do know we have to get better performance up front.. The coach ....the OL coach needs to do a better job and that's #1... If he does better the OL will begin performing better too... It will improve.. I think we have the players to do it.. I have seen these same players be effective in the past... It's a matter of working together as a unit.
Oh by the say Sonny... nice post.. OL and run game is my thing.. It's too easy to point at jamal or St. Claire.. if there is one portion of the entire team that must play as a unit... it's the OL.. They played revolving starters all preseason so the starting unit really has not had but 2 weeks together..now we are changing it again because Womack is out.. When Hadnot comes back we are going to change it again... We need the same guys in there week in week out and allow them time to get used to who is next to them.. Any of you guys who have ever played OL know...You need to know what the guy next to you is doing, what does he do well, what doesn't he do well... coaching is huge.
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Steiny gives way to easy if he has to deal with a second man on the outside,mack looks pretty newbie as we would expect and thomas has to do double duties ever since last year about midseason when film revealed a technique to basicly blow past steinbach...
BQ hasnt had enough time to tell if he sucks or not but im all for suprising the opponent and putting DA in if BQ is struggling it would be intersting to see....
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I keep reading all these post about St. Clair sucks, Womack sucks, its the right side of the line thats killing us, people when watching the game look at the entire line play, I know everyone wants to praise Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach but do people realize how few yards we get when we run left or up the middle, also 2 of the sacks came from the left side.
Thomas and Steinbach are much better at pass protecting than run blocking, both have not done a good job of pass blocking the 1st 2 games, in order for the line to create holes we need all 5 members working as a unit all you need is one breakdown and the entire line looks bad. notice how few times we see this line have the guards pull or trap.
For some reason many fans have overrated this Oline, yea we have problems on the right side because neither Womack or St.Clair are athletic and neither have quick feet but watch the games and we get very little push from Steinbach and Thomas in run blocking.
While people keep saying draft a right guard and right tackle, this team needs to draft a bigger guard on the left side and a bit athletic guard on the right side.
I saw a post recently that suggested moving Steinbach to tackle and that may not be a bad idea also considering that Steinbach is paid left tackle money he might make a very good right tackle but IMO Eric Steinbach is one of the guys who will not be back next season because he is paid too much just to play guard.
Also a running back with speed who hits the hole quicker would help the oline look much better
I know everyone wants to praise Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach but do people realize how few yards we get when we run left or up the middle, also 2 of the sacks came from the left side.
Here are Jamal Lewis's splits:
By Play Direction:- Left Sideline: 6.0 YPC
- Left Side: 5.6 YPC
- Middle: 1.6 YPC
- Right Side: 3.2 YPC
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Also a running back with speed who hits the hole quicker would help the oline look much better
That is the key, I dont think that anybody pulls a safety up on us to stop our slow moving freight train. They dont respect our running game so on passing downs its a free for all. And after last week everybody knows we can run a screen play either. And that is the fault of having to slow of guys on the right side.
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Browns Rushing Number Against Denver
Lewis- up middle 1 yard
Lewis-left guard- 1 yard
Lewis- right guard - 1 yard
Lewis- right guard- 2 yards
Harrison- middle - 1 yard
Lewis-right guard- 3 yards
Lewis- left end- 12 yards
Quinn off right end- 5 yards
Lewis up middle- 3 yards
Lewis- middle- 1 yard
Lewis- middle- 2 yards
Lewis-right guard- 6 yards
Harrison-middle- 5 yards
Cribbs-left end- 4 yards
Lewis- middle- minus 1 yard
Lewis-middle- 1 yard
Lewis- left guard- No gain
2nd Half
Lewis-middle- 3 yards
Harrison-middle- 2 yards
Lewis-left end- 4 yards
Lets not put all the blame on the right side of the O-line, we had one run for 12 yards left, and 2 runs for 4 yards left and a run of no gain and 2 runs for 1 yard left, what looks bad is we are getting nothing running up the middle with the exception of one run for 5 yards by Harrison.
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Interesting how this changed from 'left side of our line sucks worse on the run than the right side' to 'what I ACTUALLY meant was the middle sucks'.
Of course it's hard to run up the middle when:
1) You have a rookie center
2) You have twinkle toes running. Did you notice how Jamal couldn't gain ONE LOUSY YARD on a 3rd and 1 last week; it wasn't because of the line. It was because he had decided to dance around instead of just hitting it.
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Browns Rushing Number Against Denver
Lewis- up middle 1 yard
Lewis-left guard- 1 yard
Lewis- right guard - 1 yard
Lewis- right guard- 2 yards
Harrison- middle - 1 yard
Lewis-right guard- 3 yards
Lewis- left end- 12 yards
Quinn off right end- 5 yards
Lewis up middle- 3 yards
Lewis- middle- 1 yard
Lewis- middle- 2 yards
Lewis-right guard- 6 yards
Harrison-middle- 5 yards
Cribbs-left end- 4 yards
Lewis- middle- minus 1 yard
Lewis-middle- 1 yard
Lewis- left guard- No gain
2nd Half
Lewis-middle- 3 yards
Harrison-middle- 2 yards
Lewis-left end- 4 yards
Lets not put all the blame on the right side of the O-line, we had one run for 12 yards left, and 2 runs for 4 yards left and a run of no gain and 2 runs for 1 yard left, what looks bad is we are getting nothing running up the middle with the exception of one run for 5 yards by Harrison.
Browns Rushing Number Against Denver
Lewis- up middle 1 yard
Lewis-left guard- 1 yard
Lewis- right guard - 1 yard
Lewis- right guard- 2 yards
Harrison- middle - 1 yard
Lewis-right guard- 3 yards
Lewis- left end- 12 yards
Quinn off right end- 5 yards
Lewis up middle- 3 yards
Lewis- middle- 1 yard
Lewis- middle- 2 yards
Lewis-right guard- 6 yards
Harrison-middle- 5 yards
Cribbs-left end- 4 yards
Lewis- middle- minus 1 yard
Lewis-middle- 1 yard
Lewis- left guard- No gain
2nd Half
Lewis-middle- 3 yards
Harrison-middle- 2 yards
Lewis-left end- 4 yards
Lets not put all the blame on the right side of the O-line, we had one run for 12 yards left, and 2 runs for 4 yards left and a run of no gain and 2 runs for 1 yard left, what looks bad is we are getting nothing running up the middle with the exception of one run for 5 yards by Harrison.
I know you are trying to come up with evidence to prove your point, but it's not working man. The left side is fine. Offensive lines with weak spots like St. Clair (or Shaffer last season) and little depth tend to have problems like these. They trickle across the line.
People tried saying Joe Thomas played poorly last season too, which is funny because the players and coaches are the reason he got into his second straight pro bowl because the fan vote was not there for Thomas.
The left side of the Browns line has been fine. The majority of the sacks have come via St. Clair. The majority of the time you see sacks to the left it's because they overloading that side and blitzing multiple players. The only players I can recall beating Joe Thomas one-on-one are Mario Williams and Trent Cole. Most of the time Thomas holds a defender or two off, but even Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, and Jonathan Ogden needed assistance on the outside and when they didnt get it the offensive line suffered as a whole.
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Browns Rushing Number Against Denver
Lewis- up middle 1 yard
Lewis-left guard- 1 yard
Lewis- right guard - 1 yard
Lewis- right guard- 2 yards
Harrison- middle - 1 yard
Lewis-right guard- 3 yards
Lewis- left end- 12 yards
Quinn off right end- 5 yards
Lewis up middle- 3 yards
Lewis- middle- 1 yard
Lewis- middle- 2 yards
Lewis-right guard- 6 yards
Harrison-middle- 5 yards
Cribbs-left end- 4 yards
Lewis- middle- minus 1 yard
Lewis-middle- 1 yard
Lewis- left guard- No gain
2nd Half
Lewis-middle- 3 yards
Harrison-middle- 2 yards
Lewis-left end- 4 yards
Lets not put all the blame on the right side of the O-line, we had one run for 12 yards left, and 2 runs for 4 yards left and a run of no gain and 2 runs for 1 yard left, what looks bad is we are getting nothing running up the middle with the exception of one run for 5 yards by Harrison.
I know you are trying to come up with evidence to prove your point, but it's not working man. The left side is fine. Offensive lines with weak spots like St. Clair (or Shaffer last season) and little depth tend to have problems like these. They trickle across the line.
People tried saying Joe Thomas played poorly last season too, which is funny because the players and coaches are the reason he got into his second straight pro bowl because the fan vote was not there for Thomas.
The left side of the Browns line has been fine. The majority of the sacks have come via St. Clair. The majority of the time you see sacks to the left it's because they overloading that side and blitzing multiple players. The only players I can recall beating Joe Thomas one-on-one are Mario Williams and Trent Cole. Most of the time Thomas holds a defender or two off, but even Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, and Jonathan Ogden needed assistance on the outside and when they didnt get it the offensive line suffered as a whole.
I know you are trying to come up with evidence to prove your point, but it's not working man. The left side is fine. Offensive lines with weak spots like St. Clair (or Shaffer last season) and little depth tend to have problems like these. They trickle across the line.
People tried saying Joe Thomas played poorly last season too, which is funny because the players and coaches are the reason he got into his second straight pro bowl because the fan vote was not there for Thomas.
The left side of the Browns line has been fine. The majority of the sacks have come via St. Clair. The majority of the time you see sacks to the left it's because they overloading that side and blitzing multiple players. The only players I can recall beating Joe Thomas one-on-one are Mario Williams and Trent Cole. Most of the time Thomas holds a defender or two off, but even Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, and Jonathan Ogden needed assistance on the outside and when they didnt get it the offensive line suffered as a whole.
Uh, no the leftside hasn't been fine. Steinbach has been the worst LG in football this year run blocking and average pass blocking. Yet, you live in the fantasy all you want.
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I know you are trying to come up with evidence to prove your point, but it's not working man. The left side is fine. Offensive lines with weak spots like St. Clair (or Shaffer last season) and little depth tend to have problems like these. They trickle across the line.
People tried saying Joe Thomas played poorly last season too, which is funny because the players and coaches are the reason he got into his second straight pro bowl because the fan vote was not there for Thomas.
The left side of the Browns line has been fine. The majority of the sacks have come via St. Clair. The majority of the time you see sacks to the left it's because they overloading that side and blitzing multiple players. The only players I can recall beating Joe Thomas one-on-one are Mario Williams and Trent Cole. Most of the time Thomas holds a defender or two off, but even Orlando Pace, Walter Jones, and Jonathan Ogden needed assistance on the outside and when they didnt get it the offensive line suffered as a whole.
Uh, no the leftside hasn't been fine. Steinbach has been the worst LG in football this year run blocking and average pass blocking. Yet, you live in the fantasy all you want.
Uh, no the leftside hasn't been fine. Steinbach has been the worst LG in football this year run blocking and average pass blocking. Yet, you live in the fantasy all you want.
State your evidence..... specific examples and facts please. And by stating he is the worst LG in football shows me you really don't watch any football.
The Browns have given up 9 sacks already. Eight have come towards the middle-right or at the right side of the offensive line.
Furthermore, Lewis is averaging almost six yards a carry when he runs to the left......
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This next game, watch the freakin lb's. They know the Browns offensive line is weak on the right side.
So they fill gaps to the left - one defensive guy can watch the right side, while whoever blitzes in
on the right, shutting down any rollout out, or pitch out, or run to the right. We've actually had defenders
go around St. Claire so quickly, Lewis was caught from behind while running left against a stacked defense on the left.
That's pitiful. Not so much play calling mistakes, just limited functionality of the offense.
So, on a play action, the defender is still getting into the backfield so quickly, it shuts down all but a very quick throw,
if a receiver is open.
That's just my opinion...
You may as well just put a fullback in there on the right side to help St. Claire, most of the time.
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Interesting how this changed from 'left side of our line sucks worse on the run than the right side' to 'what I ACTUALLY meant was the middle sucks'.
Of course it's hard to run up the middle when:
1) You have a rookie center
2) You have twinkle toes running. Did you notice how Jamal couldn't gain ONE LOUSY YARD on a 3rd and 1 last week; it wasn't because of the line. It was because he had decided to dance around instead of just hitting it.
Interesting how this changed from 'left side of our line sucks worse on the run than the right side' to 'what I ACTUALLY meant was the middle sucks'.
Of course it's hard to run up the middle when:
1) You have a rookie center
2) You have twinkle toes running. Did you notice how Jamal couldn't gain ONE LOUSY YARD on a 3rd and 1 last week; it wasn't because of the line. It was because he had decided to dance around instead of just hitting it.
And people keep yammering for him to be made a short yardage back. Short yardage is more about hitting the hole quickly and decisively than it is about about bull rushing through a LBer. A good deal of the best short yardage backs of all time were quick to the hole types (M. Allen, E. Smith, LT, Faulk), not Bettis types. Defensive players are way too big to use a plowhorse to get tough yards against a stacked line.
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