Brady Quinn, be careful what you ask for
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Quinn will get his time but if he doesnt show promise by the trade deadline hes either on the bench or on a new team. Plain and simple if Quinn isnt the starter for the future and still remains on the team after the deadline the GM needs to be fired. No way can we take on a 5 mil bonus just for sh*ts and giggles.
My opinions tend to be unpopular I know but look at the bright side, all the Ohio homers might have a chance to have Tony Pike on the roster next year. (who is better the Brady Quinn)
Quinn will get his time but if he doesnt show promise by the trade deadline hes either on the bench or on a new team. Plain and simple if Quinn isnt the starter for the future and still remains on the team after the deadline the GM needs to be fired. No way can we take on a 5 mil bonus just for sh*ts and giggles.
My opinions tend to be unpopular I know but look at the bright side, all the Ohio homers might have a chance to have Tony Pike on the roster next year. (who is better the Brady Quinn)
I'm glad you have George and Mangini's ears. Do they also come to you for drafting advice, and how best to build team unity?
It's not that your opinions are unpopular. They are just xxxxing stupid - that's what makes them 'unpopular'.
This has nothing to do with Quinn being an Ohio boy. Charlie Frye was an 'Ohio Boy', too, and most of us couldn't wait until he was gone. Kind of pokes all kinds of holes in your theory that we like him because he's from Ohio.
We like him because he's NOT Derek Anderson. If he turns out to be another Charlie Frye, Tim Couch, or whatever suck QB we've had, we won't like him either.
I'm not sure why wanting to see someone play when the guys before him have sucked started making people 'fags'. I always thought it made them astute football people for not wanting to continue with the suck after a guy has been given TWENTY-SEVEN games and shown no progression.
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Um...those of us asking for Quinn knew what we were asking for:
A brand new starter in an offense full of brand new starters with a brand new coordinator.
Look, people can spin it all they want, those are the facts. It's going to be ugly and it's just plain ridiculous to judge the brand new starter based on two games.
That being said, I'd like to see more positive plays but the QB only gets so much leeway in that department. Until or unless Mangini and/or Daboll actually try to run something downfield for him, we simply won't be able to tell if he's the problem or if the offense is the problem.
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Zombo said:
That's where I was circa 2004, 2005, 2006 ... Mr. Patient.I think 2007 awoke me to the fact this Browns fandom is actually supposed to be fun. Now we are back to miserable and I miss fun.
Put Horseballs in there and air it out, I don't care if he gets picked, at least we lose with some balls and not this "whatsinDabolbitch" dink and dunk nightmare of an offense.
Zombo
--Great to see you ... rustle up those other two knuckleheads, will ya?
Yeah, I get impatience, but I don't get wishing to lose over trying to win.
At least you admit that by putting DA in you're cheering for the car wreck and you know it's coming.
Me? I'd rather actually try to win the game, in whatever form that takes. I've seen plenty of DA, thanks.
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"Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now."
He'd also have 3-4 int's right now with 1-2 pick 6's.
Anyways, just wondering why all the guys wanting to bench Quinn after two games (yes, two, not 5...a new HC and OC and new system) weren't wanting to bench DA after what 11 games in a row that were mostly pisspoor? Why do you have such a short leash on Quinn when you kept giving DA 5, 6, 11, 23 games or something like that to prove he's a backup QB in the NFL?
DA got his 20+ games...Quinn should get the same treatment.
If you want to blame ANYONE...blame Daboll and St. Clair! Quinn runs the plays the OC calls....well tries to run them if he's not running for his life cuz St. Clair let another guy go by him.
"Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now."
He'd also have 3-4 int's right now with 1-2 pick 6's.
Anyways, just wondering why all the guys wanting to bench Quinn after two games (yes, two, not 5...a new HC and OC and new system) weren't wanting to bench DA after what 11 games in a row that were mostly pisspoor? Why do you have such a short leash on Quinn when you kept giving DA 5, 6, 11, 23 games or something like that to prove he's a backup QB in the NFL?
DA got his 20+ games...Quinn should get the same treatment.
If you want to blame ANYONE...blame Daboll and St. Clair! Quinn runs the plays the OC calls....well tries to run them if he's not running for his life cuz St. Clair let another guy go by him.
And what do you base the assumption that DA would have 3 - 4 interceptions with 1 - 2 pick 6's? Is it that he averages 1.29 turnovers a game (that is not 3 or 4 interceptions) not the 2.0 turnovers we currently are getting? I made a really long post in a few places that showed DA's and BQ's career (so far) interception and TD rates. Basically DA is about twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ and they have very similar interception rates per game, though DA's is slightly higher but not by allot.
DA got a leash because he actually played well when he became the starter. So far BQ has not played well. Do you really think that if DA started 2007 with back to back games like BQ has played that not everybody would be calling for his head?
BQ is getting the same treatment that DA got when he started to play bad. When BQ starts to play well then he will also get the same praise (even more I am sure) as DA got in the first half of 2007.
Until BQ plays well why would you expect anybody to do anything but attack him. That is what we all did to DA, when you play bad as the QB you get attacked. Maybe DA got a little more of a break but that is because he actually won games and started off playing well.
And as far as blaming the OC, then it was not DA's fault? It was Chuds fault. Great to know, then that means that when DA played well it was inspite of Chud but when he failed it was because of Chud. That is just so great to know.
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Quinn will get his time but if he doesnt show promise by the trade deadline hes either on the bench or on a new team. Plain and simple if Quinn isnt the starter for the future and still remains on the team after the deadline the GM needs to be fired. No way can we take on a 5 mil bonus just for sh*ts and giggles.
My opinions tend to be unpopular I know but look at the bright side, all the Ohio homers might have a chance to have Tony Pike on the roster next year. (who is better the Brady Quinn)
Quinn will get his time but if he doesnt show promise by the trade deadline hes either on the bench or on a new team. Plain and simple if Quinn isnt the starter for the future and still remains on the team after the deadline the GM needs to be fired. No way can we take on a 5 mil bonus just for sh*ts and giggles.
My opinions tend to be unpopular I know but look at the bright side, all the Ohio homers might have a chance to have Tony Pike on the roster next year. (who is better the Brady Quinn)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: -
"Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now."
He'd also have 3-4 int's right now with 1-2 pick 6's.
Anyways, just wondering why all the guys wanting to bench Quinn after two games (yes, two, not 5...a new HC and OC and new system) weren't wanting to bench DA after what 11 games in a row that were mostly pisspoor? Why do you have such a short leash on Quinn when you kept giving DA 5, 6, 11, 23 games or something like that to prove he's a backup QB in the NFL?
DA got his 20+ games...Quinn should get the same treatment.
If you want to blame ANYONE...blame Daboll and St. Clair! Quinn runs the plays the OC calls....well tries to run them if he's not running for his life cuz St. Clair let another guy go by him.
And what do you base the assumption that DA would have 3 - 4 interceptions with 1 - 2 pick 6's? Is it that he averages 1.29 turnovers a game (that is not 3 or 4 interceptions) not the 2.0 turnovers we currently are getting? I made a really long post in a few places that showed DA's and BQ's career (so far) interception and TD rates. Basically DA is about twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ and they have very similar interception rates per game, though DA's is slightly higher but not by allot.
DA got a leash because he actually played well when he became the starter. So far BQ has not played well. Do you really think that if DA started 2007 with back to back games like BQ has played that not everybody would be calling for his head?
BQ is getting the same treatment that DA got when he started to play bad. When BQ starts to play well then he will also get the same praise (even more I am sure) as DA got in the first half of 2007.
Until BQ plays well why would you expect anybody to do anything but attack him. That is what we all did to DA, when you play bad as the QB you get attacked. Maybe DA got a little more of a break but that is because he actually won games and started off playing well.
And as far as blaming the OC, then it was not DA's fault? It was Chuds fault. Great to know, then that means that when DA played well it was inspite of Chud but when he failed it was because of Chud. That is just so great to know.
And what do you base the assumption that DA would have 3 - 4 interceptions with 1 - 2 pick 6's? Is it that he averages 1.29 turnovers a game (that is not 3 or 4 interceptions) not the 2.0 turnovers we currently are getting? I made a really long post in a few places that showed DA's and BQ's career (so far) interception and TD rates. Basically DA is about twice as likely to throw a TD as BQ and they have very similar interception rates per game, though DA's is slightly higher but not by allot.
How can you seriously compare BQ's 5 starts (3 healthy) to DA's 25+?
It's ridiculous how far the QB discussion has devolved and to what extent people will dissect the numbers to make their case.
I'm so over it. The bottom line remains unchanged:
DA failed as a starter. BQ has yet to show he's any better.
That's the whole pathetic story. Enough with the stat massaging already.
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Zombo said:
I think Anderson gives us a better chance to win football games right now.
Zombo
Zombo (and others)...I understand your position, I really do.
But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)
If YES, then by all means, play Quinn a couple more times and then get ready to trade him.
If NO, then all you are settling for is a 'couple of wins'. And that seems kinda weird. I was under the impression we wanted a long term, consistenty well performing team. If DA isn't going to give that to us (and maybe neither is Quinn, I still think it's too soon to tell) why should we just settle for a couple of wins? Just so we can say "HA! we got one" or so we don't look as bad as Detroit last year?
Personally, I'd rather give up some wins now if it means the long term goal is the consistent well-performing team. One that has the longevity, cohesiveness, and continuity to get us in the top every single stinkin' year! lol
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All that matters (again, remember Lum's sage counsel from last year) is what the staff thinks.
They disagree with Z: they feel Quinn gives us the best chance.
There's probably a little bit of "who has the higher ceiling" in there too, but that would further support their belief in Quinn and/or feeling that DA's ceiling is sufficient. Either way, its hardly an endorsement of DA. (i.e., the entire point of let's hope Quinn is the real deal because the staff has essentially told us that DA isn't.)
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same age with a bigger arm, a quicker release, that has already won games for us
How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.
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Mangini made a comment that they would have a good sample of what Quinn had to offer after four games, because this would be against a variety of teams. So, I would be very surprised that anything happens before the 5th game which I think is fair.
I had many of these fears about Quinn but I am hoping he proves me wrong and turns into Bernie Kosar this season.
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You don't know that.
Sure I do. Quinn's starting.
I get your point, I just completely disagree with your assessment of DA. I think we need to sufficiently invest this year in Quinn to ensure we know what we've got in him. If Mangini draws his conclusion this week I'd be shocked and concerned. (i.e., how did he miss a complete failure of a QB who only lasted 3 starts.)
Here's my bottom line: If BQ gives way to DA for performance issues, we're back in the market for a QB. You believe further investment in DA is a good bet. I don't.
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Zombo said:
I think Anderson gives us a better chance to win football games right now.
Zombo
Zombo (and others)...I understand your position, I really do.
But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)
If YES, then by all means, play Quinn a couple more times and then get ready to trade him.
If NO, then all you are settling for is a 'couple of wins'. And that seems kinda weird. I was under the impression we wanted a long term, consistenty well performing team. If DA isn't going to give that to us (and maybe neither is Quinn, I still think it's too soon to tell) why should we just settle for a couple of wins? Just so we can say "HA! we got one" or so we don't look as bad as Detroit last year?
Personally, I'd rather give up some wins now if it means the long term goal is the consistent well-performing team. One that has the longevity, cohesiveness, and continuity to get us in the top every single stinkin' year! lol
But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)
Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.
I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.
At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.
Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.
However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.
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Great post Stan.
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Semantics I guess Z. I was making the point that right now Mangini is telling us Quinn gives us the best chance to win and/or is the guy to develop. I don't know what Mangini has thought through should Quinn lay an egg this weekend.
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I agree 100% with your assessment, Stan. And only wish our coaches had felt the same way over the past few years.
It really sucks for both of them because they both could have (and maybe still could be) great given the right time and circumstances. Unfortunately, we are running out of patience and want immediate gratification.
Yeah, I wanted BQ to totally WOW us as well and he hasn't. I can't for the life of me understand how he seemed to look so much better last year and in the pre-season and now it's like a curtain dropped or something. Maybe it is the playcalling...I sure as heck don't know.
But thanks to you and Z for answering the question.
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
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On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
I don't put much credence in this, but let's suppose Martz's analysis is spot on.
That puts Mangini in the same coaching class as RAC. After all who was the last HC we had to completely botch a preseason evaluation? Sure, RAC's was worse as it only took one game. If Quinn is benched after another game or two there isn't much difference. Whiff!
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
Meh...I take half of what the media says with a grain of salt and the other half goes in one ear and out the other.
These guys are not on the field, in the locker room, in the offices every day with these guys. They are making assumptions because people think they know so much more about the game. And they might...but they also are worred about ratings and talking about known controversial subjects and they are not involved in coaching (although some of them might have been at one time).
I don't believe the team is 'dumbing down the O' in order to help Quinn. They may be dumbing it down to help the entire O learn a new system, new coach, new whatever. But that doesn't rest solely on Quinn. There are lots of others who are learning new positions (Cribbs) and new systems (all the rookies) and new plays (the entire team).
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
I doubt they're dumbing down the O, because they're allowing him to audible.
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But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)
Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.
I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.
At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.
Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.
However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.
Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.
I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.
At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.
Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.
However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.
This is probaly the most accurate post that could be made without disparaging either qb. And it trickles down to more than just our QB.
Every player on the roster has some confused concept of what direction the Browns will go next.
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