Brady Quinn, be careful what you ask for
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Great post Stan.
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Semantics I guess Z. I was making the point that right now Mangini is telling us Quinn gives us the best chance to win and/or is the guy to develop. I don't know what Mangini has thought through should Quinn lay an egg this weekend.
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I agree 100% with your assessment, Stan. And only wish our coaches had felt the same way over the past few years.
It really sucks for both of them because they both could have (and maybe still could be) great given the right time and circumstances. Unfortunately, we are running out of patience and want immediate gratification.
Yeah, I wanted BQ to totally WOW us as well and he hasn't. I can't for the life of me understand how he seemed to look so much better last year and in the pre-season and now it's like a curtain dropped or something. Maybe it is the playcalling...I sure as heck don't know.
But thanks to you and Z for answering the question.
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
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On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
I don't put much credence in this, but let's suppose Martz's analysis is spot on.
That puts Mangini in the same coaching class as RAC. After all who was the last HC we had to completely botch a preseason evaluation? Sure, RAC's was worse as it only took one game. If Quinn is benched after another game or two there isn't much difference. Whiff!
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
Meh...I take half of what the media says with a grain of salt and the other half goes in one ear and out the other.
These guys are not on the field, in the locker room, in the offices every day with these guys. They are making assumptions because people think they know so much more about the game. And they might...but they also are worred about ratings and talking about known controversial subjects and they are not involved in coaching (although some of them might have been at one time).
I don't believe the team is 'dumbing down the O' in order to help Quinn. They may be dumbing it down to help the entire O learn a new system, new coach, new whatever. But that doesn't rest solely on Quinn. There are lots of others who are learning new positions (Cribbs) and new systems (all the rookies) and new plays (the entire team).
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Zombo said:
Which is exactly what Z wants.
I said he deserves a third start.
So how do you know Mangini doesn't agree with me?
Zombo
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
On the NFL net earlier today they had a segment about qbs on the hot seat, and BQ was a big portion of the segment.
Martz said he would have a hard time sticking with Quinn much longer. Basically it was because the team was dumbing down the O in order to help him, and if you have to do that, you have to pull him.
I doubt they're dumbing down the O, because they're allowing him to audible.
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But this is the question I have...do you believe DA is the franchise QB of the future of the Browns? (I can't remember everyones thoughts on this.)
Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.
I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.
At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.
Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.
However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.
Personally, I'm not convinced either BQ or DA are not the franchise future ... they are both young.
I just have a baseball coaches mentality, where I like to keep my players playing with confidence and fresh. I'd have handled the two of them much differently all the way along, kepted them both honed, kept both's confidence up, grew both, and one probably wouldn't be here still because we would have dressed them up so well they would have been traded for.
At this point in this botched handling of two young QB's with each individual skills to build around, I don't think you could screw it up any worst than it already has been.
Quinn should have had more playing time experience, and Anderson should have been handled differently where he still had full confidence in himself as well as from his teamates, organization, and fans.
However, they let one die on a vine and the other rot on the bench, and now both are among the lowest rated QB's in the league.
This is probaly the most accurate post that could be made without disparaging either qb. And it trickles down to more than just our QB.
Every player on the roster has some confused concept of what direction the Browns will go next.
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@.mz said:
Sorry, Ozzie, you just got crushed.Yeah, then all DA and BE did was end up crushing pineapples in February while in Honolulu at the Pro Bowl.
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same age with a bigger arm, a quicker release, that has already won games for us
How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.
How did this guy lose his starting job? Seriously, I'd be curious for the "bring in DA now" crew's opinion. You must REALLY be worried about our head coach considering in your opinion he completely and utterly failed in selecting the right starting QB.
DA lost his job winning three of his last five starts, a dropped BE pass from winning 4 of 5, with a lot of unhappy fans.
For BQ, it's a little early yet, but my guess is that if the losses and inability to move the ball continues, 0 and 16 is not in the mix of possibilities for him.
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He may be a dink and dunker but god he has great abs!!!
OK, on a serious note, I am having a hard time with Quinn's lack of production. Aaron Rodgers rode the bench for a few years and came out gangbusters. Perhaps I am being a bit unrealistic but I was hoping to see at least a glimmer of that from Quinn. Hopefully, we will see some improvement on Sunday.
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Mangini needs to find out what Quinn is made of or it will mar his tenure. I think maybe he knows Quinn isn't up to NFL standards and is using the security of his first season on the job to rid himself of Quinn for good by exposing him and running horrible plays for him. Lol Lol! YOU NEVER KNOW!
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People whine about Quinn even though:
1.This isn't a vertical offense or rely on medium/long passes
2.The WR's don't run the right routes enough
3.The OL isn't good in pass blocking(yet)
4.The OL isn't good at run blocking(yet)
5.The HC/OC are being conservative starting things off
6.JL is old and getting older
DA just doesn't fit this system. We would have to make "serious" changes to the offense for him to run it and in the long run, would provide none of the other starters the long term training for what this system offers. Yeah, if BQ got hurt in a pinch we could adapt things for the remainder of the season, but that wouldn't be a good thing.
You guys are asking for Quinn to be Tom Brady 2003 when he is more like Tom Brady in early 2001 with less cohesion and talent on the offense. That is simply to much. He can't win the game by himself. He isn't going to make amazing pass after amazing pass downfield to move the team down the field. The rest of the guys need to step up. Run the ball better, the WR's run better routes, get better cohesion in practice.
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@danamal said:
Aaron Rodgers is a great QB who benefitted from a HOF QB quinn had DA,Frye and Dorsey ,Rodgers was studying the same system consistently his entire time on the bench and came on to the field with the same system,we have had shit.To early to grade Quinn given what we have but he has yet to be impressive,sooner or later the light comes on or it doesnt.
Not to mention a excellent recieving group that goes 5 deep, a very good OL, a run game and a defense.. It's like comparing apples and corvettes.
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Leading up to the season, all we heard on this board is Quinn this, Quinn that, Quinn for President, yadda damn yadda Brady yadda. Two games into his savior campaign, we're a dreadul 0-2 with nothing but bickering, lost hope, and folks bailing ship. Is BQ really that bad or is this an expected natural progression of a guy learning a system he will eventually thrive in (i.e. Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman? DA backers are loving this and leading the clammering to stick him back in already. Based on what we've seen thus far, would it necessarily be a bad idea or do we say the hell with the season in exchange for Quinn getting starter expereince? Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now.
45 years and counting...
Leading up to the season, all we heard on this board is Quinn this, Quinn that, Quinn for President, yadda damn yadda Brady yadda. Two games into his savior campaign, we're a dreadul 0-2 with nothing but bickering, lost hope, and folks bailing ship. Is BQ really that bad or is this an expected natural progression of a guy learning a system he will eventually thrive in (i.e. Peyton Manning or Troy Aikman? DA backers are loving this and leading the clammering to stick him back in already. Based on what we've seen thus far, would it necessarily be a bad idea or do we say the hell with the season in exchange for Quinn getting starter expereince? Bash DA all you want, but I guaran-f-in-tee Braylon Edwards would have found the endzone by now.
45 years and counting...
I agree wtih all of your post. Braylon should have found the endzone atleast three times. Since the insuffient passing game of throwing down field. Braylon has lost three atleast touchdowns.
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@danamal said:
Aaron Rodgers is a great QB who benefitted from a HOF QB quinn had DA,Frye and Dorsey ,Rodgers was studying the same system consistently his entire time on the bench and came on to the field with the same system,we have had shit.To early to grade Quinn given what we have but he has yet to be impressive,sooner or later the light comes on or it doesnt.
That's why I said that I would like to see a glimmer of that. I don't expect the same results but I did expect to see more than what I have.
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I've said it before and I'll say it again....QB's come in four flavors:
1) Championship QB's- can throw the ball and compete from the neck up...no question
2) The "1-Toolers"- either have a great arm or are accurate and can make plays because they're smart but the deficiency in the other area raises the question if they can ever be a real championship QB (see Pennington, Chad or Dilfer, Trent)
3) The "Maybe's"- An unclear commodity and the arm strength, accuracy and smarts are always in question. (see Fiedler, Jay or Harrington, Joey)
4) The "How in the Hell Did They Get on A Roster" guys (see Smith, Akili )
The real issue is where do the Browns' QB's fit in this scheme? #3 and #4 ruin your franchise and #3 can become a #2 but it shouldn't take years to figure that out because usually it's their next team that benefits from that.
The thing that scares me about Quinn is that he seems less than accurate and he needs to make faster decisions. You can't teach accuracy. Tom Landry and Bill Parcells both believed that you're either accurate or you're not. The decision making could improve but he needs to make faster decisions. Watching AFC Playbook on NFL Network...this was readily apparent in the clips from the Denver game.
The other problem that comes to mind is that while DA has a lot of starts under his belt, Quinn needs some starts to show what he can do. I don't really see how he can help his trade value. He's either a good player for Cleveland or he's worth relatively little.
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People whine about Quinn even though:
1.This isn't a vertical offense or rely on medium/long passes
2.The WR's don't run the right routes enough
3.The OL isn't good in pass blocking(yet)
4.The OL isn't good at run blocking(yet)
5.The HC/OC are being conservative starting things off
6.JL is old and getting older
DA just doesn't fit this system. We would have to make "serious" changes to the offense for him to run it and in the long run, would provide none of the other starters the long term training for what this system offers. Yeah, if BQ got hurt in a pinch we could adapt things for the remainder of the season, but that wouldn't be a good thing.
You guys are asking for Quinn to be Tom Brady 2003 when he is more like Tom Brady in early 2001 with less cohesion and talent on the offense. That is simply to much. He can't win the game by himself. He isn't going to make amazing pass after amazing pass downfield to move the team down the field. The rest of the guys need to step up. Run the ball better, the WR's run better routes, get better cohesion in practice.
People whine about Quinn even though:
1.This isn't a vertical offense or rely on medium/long passes
2.The WR's don't run the right routes enough
3.The OL isn't good in pass blocking(yet)
4.The OL isn't good at run blocking(yet)
5.The HC/OC are being conservative starting things off
6.JL is old and getting older
DA just doesn't fit this system. We would have to make "serious" changes to the offense for him to run it and in the long run, would provide none of the other starters the long term training for what this system offers. Yeah, if BQ got hurt in a pinch we could adapt things for the remainder of the season, but that wouldn't be a good thing.
You guys are asking for Quinn to be Tom Brady 2003 when he is more like Tom Brady in early 2001 with less cohesion and talent on the offense. That is simply to much. He can't win the game by himself. He isn't going to make amazing pass after amazing pass downfield to move the team down the field. The rest of the guys need to step up. Run the ball better, the WR's run better routes, get better cohesion in practice.
Tom Brady 2001
2001* 24 NWE QB 12 15 14 11-3-0 264 413 63.9 2843 18 4.4 12 2.9 91 6.9 6.4 10.8 189.5 86.5
Think I could live with Tom Brady 2001
Tom Brady 2003
2003 26 NWE QB 12 16 16 14-2-0 317 527 60.2 3620 23 4.4 12 2.3 82 6.9 6.7 11.4 226.3 85.9
As a matter of fact I could live with anywhere near either of those. Even smelling the same zip code would be good. But seriously, Brady Quinn is NOT Tom Brady. I do not expect Tom Brady out of Brady Quinn. But, since I have heard how BQ has so much more potential and a higher ceiling than DA I would like to see him demonstrate it. How about just better numbers than DA in DA's last 6 starts in 2008. That would be a good place to start.
And I have heard many times how DA was only a good QB when he had a perfect cockpit. How you needed a QB that can succeed even with a less than perfect cockpit. I was told that BQ was that type of QB. I guess I would like to see any sign of that in the next few games.
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People whine about Quinn even though:
1.This isn't a vertical offense or rely on medium/long passes
2.The WR's don't run the right routes enough
3.The OL isn't good in pass blocking(yet)
4.The OL isn't good at run blocking(yet)
5.The HC/OC are being conservative starting things off
6.JL is old and getting older
DA just doesn't fit this system. We would have to make "serious" changes to the offense for him to run it and in the long run, would provide none of the other starters the long term training for what this system offers. Yeah, if BQ got hurt in a pinch we could adapt things for the remainder of the season, but that wouldn't be a good thing.
You guys are asking for Quinn to be Tom Brady 2003 when he is more like Tom Brady in early 2001 with less cohesion and talent on the offense. That is simply to much. He can't win the game by himself. He isn't going to make amazing pass after amazing pass downfield to move the team down the field. The rest of the guys need to step up. Run the ball better, the WR's run better routes, get better cohesion in practice.
Tom Brady 2001
2001* 24 NWE QB 12 15 14 11-3-0 264 413 63.9 2843 18 4.4 12 2.9 91 6.9 6.4 10.8 189.5 86.5
Think I could live with Tom Brady 2001
Tom Brady 2003
2003 26 NWE QB 12 16 16 14-2-0 317 527 60.2 3620 23 4.4 12 2.3 82 6.9 6.7 11.4 226.3 85.9
As a matter of fact I could live with anywhere near either of those. Even smelling the same zip code would be good. But seriously, Brady Quinn is NOT Tom Brady. I do not expect Tom Brady out of Brady Quinn. But, since I have heard how BQ has so much more potential and a higher ceiling than DA I would like to see him demonstrate it. How about just better numbers than DA in DA's last 6 starts in 2008. That would be a good place to start.
And I have heard many times how DA was only a good QB when he had a perfect cockpit. How you needed a QB that can succeed even with a less than perfect cockpit. I was told that BQ was that type of QB. I guess I would like to see any sign of that in the next few games.
Tom Brady 2001
2001* 24 NWE QB 12 15 14 11-3-0 264 413 63.9 2843 18 4.4 12 2.9 91 6.9 6.4 10.8 189.5 86.5
Think I could live with Tom Brady 2001
Tom Brady 2003
2003 26 NWE QB 12 16 16 14-2-0 317 527 60.2 3620 23 4.4 12 2.3 82 6.9 6.7 11.4 226.3 85.9
As a matter of fact I could live with anywhere near either of those. Even smelling the same zip code would be good. But seriously, Brady Quinn is NOT Tom Brady. I do not expect Tom Brady out of Brady Quinn. But, since I have heard how BQ has so much more potential and a higher ceiling than DA I would like to see him demonstrate it. How about just better numbers than DA in DA's last 6 starts in 2008. That would be a good place to start.
And I have heard many times how DA was only a good QB when he had a perfect cockpit. How you needed a QB that can succeed even with a less than perfect cockpit. I was told that BQ was that type of QB. I guess I would like to see any sign of that in the next few games.
The only problem is Brady couldn't throw down the field overly well at all in 2001, in 2003 it reversed, even though other aspects declined for various reasons.
I can't help it, but preseason shakedown cost the Browns cohesion to begin things.
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He may be a dink and dunker but god he has great abs!!!
OK, on a serious note, I am having a hard time with Quinn's lack of production. Aaron Rodgers rode the bench for a few years and came out gangbusters. Perhaps I am being a bit unrealistic but I was hoping to see at least a glimmer of that from Quinn. Hopefully, we will see some improvement on Sunday.
He may be a dink and dunker but god he has great abs!!!
OK, on a serious note, I am having a hard time with Quinn's lack of production. Aaron Rodgers rode the bench for a few years and came out gangbusters. Perhaps I am being a bit unrealistic but I was hoping to see at least a glimmer of that from Quinn. Hopefully, we will see some improvement on Sunday.
1) Aaron Rogers sat behind a guy who actually KNEW how to play the QB position.
2) Green Bay was WAY better coached then we are - the effects of RAC and his staff are all over our current players. Witness that Wimbley has, since his rookie season, shown some growth.
3) Rogers was in the same offensive system.
Basically, what I'm saying is that GB != CLE.
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