Staying Put (and Outdoors) or Dome Sweet Dome in the 'Burbs?
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The problem is Hopkins might need a diversion airport. Most large airports need to have a diversion airport in case of an emergency. Most have their "Burke" nearby or in many cases a military airfield. I don't know if CAK would be close enough to be considered a diversion for Hopkins.
Diversion airports have to have some minimum runway requirements plus adequate over run and a minimum number of on duty fire suppression units.
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The problem is Hopkins might need a diversion airport. Most large airports need to have a diversion airport in case of an emergency. Most have their "Burke" nearby or in many cases a military airfield. I don't know if CAK would be close enough to be considered a diversion for Hopkins.
Diversion airports have to have some minimum runway requirements plus adequate over run and a minimum number of on duty fire suppression units.
The problem is Hopkins might need a diversion airport. Most large airports need to have a diversion airport in case of an emergency. Most have their "Burke" nearby or in many cases a military airfield. I don't know if CAK would be close enough to be considered a diversion for Hopkins.
Diversion airports have to have some minimum runway requirements plus adequate over run and a minimum number of on duty fire suppression units.
Either an existing Cleveland area airport would have to be expanded or one would have to be built.
I think we might have bandied the idea of building a new Browns stadium at Burke years ago on this forum, and it was brought up that the process to decommission Burke would be a loooong one.
I guess they could start the process to close Burke soon, extend the lease at the current stadium, do minimal renovations/upkeep there for the mean time until ground could be broken at Burke.
It's another option.
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I heard talk about Cuyahoga Co. Airport in Willougby. Its runway is a little over 5000 feet. Hopkins has one at 9000 feet and another right at 10,000 feet. I don't think Cuyahoga Co has the room to extend out to 9000 or so feet. It meets the other requirements such as a FAA tower and fire dept on site. I don't think a 5000 foot air strip near long enough to land a large jet, let alone one that might be in some degree of distress.
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I heard talk about Cuyahoga Co. Airport in Willougby. Its runway is a little over 5000 feet. Hopkins has one at 9000 feet and another right at 10,000 feet. I don't think Cuyahoga Co has the room to extend out to 9000 or so feet. It meets the other requirements such as a FAA tower and fire dept on site. I don't think a 5000 foot air strip near long enough to land a large jet, let alone one that might be in some degree of distress.
I heard talk about Cuyahoga Co. Airport in Willougby. Its runway is a little over 5000 feet. Hopkins has one at 9000 feet and another right at 10,000 feet. I don't think Cuyahoga Co has the room to extend out to 9000 or so feet. It meets the other requirements such as a FAA tower and fire dept on site. I don't think a 5000 foot air strip near long enough to land a large jet, let alone one that might be in some degree of distress.
I do some weekly reading on this stuff. Just minimum requirements to start
(A) Each aircraft operations area (AOA) must be maintained for safe operation of aircraft under normal weather conditions.
(B) All airports must be equipped with an operating wind indicator.
(C) Each landing area must be in such condition that two aircraft at rest on the same runway shall be visible to each other except at airports where traffic control exists and is exercised.
(D) Turf runways shall be marked with runway boundary and threshold markers visible from one thousand feet above ground level. Hard surface runways shall be marked with runway numbers visible from one thousand feet above ground level.
(E) Each landing area shall not be less than eighteen hundred feet usable length by sixty feet width turf or hard surface unless the office of aviation finds that the airport, landing field, or landing area was constructed prior to January 1, 1998. Airports, landing fields, or landing areas constructed prior to January 1, 1998, must maintain their existing usable length and width but are otherwise exempt from the useable length and width requirements until a significant change to the existing configuration of the runway is completed. A significant change is determined by the office of aviation but includes any change to the runway length or width, runway orientation, addition or removal of displaced threshold, runway surface treatment change (e.g. turf to hard surface) or addition of a taxiway.
Last updated June 22, 2023 at 5:59 PM
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AND ..... continued ...... in Ohio. More rough numbers.
What is the legal length of a runway? ( A MILE IS 5,280 FEET. )Length. A runway of at least 1,800 m (5,900 ft) in length is usually adequate for aircraft weights below approximately 100,000 kg (220,000 lb). Larger aircraft including widebodies will usually require at least 2,400 m (7,900 ft) at sea level.Can a jet land on a 3,000 foot runway?Light jets typically need 3,000 to 4,000 feet, while midsize and super midsize jets may require 4,000 to 5,000 feet or more.How long is an airport runway in feet?Between these two runway extremes sits a “typical” commercial airline runway length: roughly between 8,000 feet (2,438 meters) and 13,000 feet (3,962 meters) …The length of an airport runway depends on the type of aircraft that will be using it:-
General aviationRunways at these airports are typically 3,200–5,500 ft long and 50 ft wide.
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Commercial serviceRunways at these airports are typically 6,000–16,000 ft long. Aircraft that weigh less than 200,000 lb can usually take off and land on a runway that's at least 6,000 ft long. Larger aircraft, like wide-body planes, usually need at least 8,000 ft at sea level and more at higher altitudes. International wide-body flights may need runways that are 10,000 ft or longer for landing and 13,000 ft or longer for takeoff.
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Thanks for the info. I was pretty sure 5000 ft wasn't long enough for large commercial jets. I knew that most major airports have runways in the 10,000 ft length.
Just looking, Burke has a runway that runs out to 6400 t. so a primary doesn't have to be out over 8000 feet. Again, just looking at google maps, I don't see where Cuyahoga has room to lengthen the runway even another 1000 feet.
Who knows, maybe 5000 ft works?
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Like I said, Haslam is a mover and shaker. He isn't going to sit around while the Cleveland City farts around talking band-aids.
When you want a new suit, you don't head over to Walmart.
When you want a new suit, you don't head over to Walmart.
Thank you! I enjoy the lack of competition looking for suits that I wear very infrequently. That said, I know what you mean.
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Thank you! I enjoy the lack of competition looking for suits that I wear very infrequently. That said, I know what you mean.
Value City was always a great place to get decent suits at decent prices.. Now you can find some decent items at Burlington on occasion lol.. I actually found a great pair of Merrills for hiking there a few years ago.. I still have them.. But I'm gonna need a new pair because I'm going hiking in the Grand Canyon this winter... And Valley of Fire an hour Northeast of Vegas..
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Thanks for the info. I was pretty sure 5000 ft wasn't long enough for large commercial jets. I knew that most major airports have runways in the 10,000 ft length.
Just looking, Burke has a runway that runs out to 6400 t. so a primary doesn't have to be out over 8000 feet. Again, just looking at google maps, I don't see where Cuyahoga has room to lengthen the runway even another 1000 feet.
Who knows, maybe 5000 ft works?
Thanks for the info. I was pretty sure 5000 ft wasn't long enough for large commercial jets. I knew that most major airports have runways in the 10,000 ft length.
Just looking, Burke has a runway that runs out to 6400 t. so a primary doesn't have to be out over 8000 feet. Again, just looking at google maps, I don't see where Cuyahoga has room to lengthen the runway even another 1000 feet.
Who knows, maybe 5000 ft works?
It depends on is it primarily for ... a) General aviation the "fun" fliers. (like your weekend fliers and similar smaller planes) -or- b) Commercial service, like tower hights, etc. (much more FAA and other stipulations .... bigger planes -and- airport lengths, etc.)
We have several general aviation pilots in our neighborhood. I enjoy reading up on this stuff.
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The only logical answer is to go dome in Brookpark.
There are sentimental reasons to stay downtown, but sentimental reason usually makes for poor business decisions. There are multiple reasons why the move should be made over staying put and going with the band-aide approach.
The only logical answer is to go dome in Brookpark.
There are sentimental reasons to stay downtown, but sentimental reason usually makes for poor business decisions. There are multiple reasons why the move should be made over staying put and going with the band-aide approach.
Thought I'd drop by... Though my personal opinion is a billion dollar upgrade to First Energy is my preference (sort of like Ohio State built a shell around the old Horseshoe) I have a feeling it's going to be a dome out in Brookpark. Muni Lot tailgate- RIP. With my 3 hour drive up north, the location really doesn't matter, but I'm not a dome fan. (and I've been to several)
As I've said many times- if you like the ambiance of a domed game, buy a widescreen TV, and watch the game in your living room. You'll save yourself a ton of money.
Some fans had to have amputations after the Chiefs playoff game this year. The game was not invented / intended as a winter sport. But games are being played practically into mid-winter.
The above is a great point. The Browns 1964 Championship game was played in mid December. Now, the playoffs extend well into January, with the Super Bowl in February. I feel for those Chiefs fans who lost body parts in that froze bowl, but it doesn't have to be that way IF you know how to dress for the weather. With my mountaineering and cold weather camping experience- it does involve spending plenty of $$$ on cold weather gear. Yeah, I know- it sounds crazy, but you CAN be pretty comfy in sub zero wind chills.
Couple final thoughts...
1) Dome schmome... The Bills new stadium isn't going to be a dome, and hell will freeze over before the citizens built a dome to replace Lambeau up in Green Bay- both cities with arguably worse weather than Cleveland in January. & i haven't heard an uproar in Kansas City to replace Arrowhead either.
2) Should the Browns go the dome route- they're probably going to price me out of my season tickets. Especially if they try to gouge us season ticket holders more extortion to renew our PSLs in the new place.
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The only logical answer is to go dome in Brookpark.
There are sentimental reasons to stay downtown, but sentimental reason usually makes for poor business decisions. There are multiple reasons why the move should be made over staying put and going with the band-aide approach.
Thought I'd drop by... Though my personal opinion is a billion dollar upgrade to First Energy is my preference (sort of like Ohio State built a shell around the old Horseshoe) I have a feeling it's going to be a dome out in Brookpark. Muni Lot tailgate- RIP. With my 3 hour drive up north, the location really doesn't matter, but I'm not a dome fan. (and I've been to several)
As I've said many times- if you like the ambiance of a domed game, buy a widescreen TV, and watch the game in your living room. You'll save yourself a ton of money.
Some fans had to have amputations after the Chiefs playoff game this year. The game was not invented / intended as a winter sport. But games are being played practically into mid-winter.
The above is a great point. The Browns 1964 Championship game was played in mid December. Now, the playoffs extend well into January, with the Super Bowl in February. I feel for those Chiefs fans who lost body parts in that froze bowl, but it doesn't have to be that way IF you know how to dress for the weather. With my mountaineering and cold weather camping experience- it does involve spending plenty of $$$ on cold weather gear. Yeah, I know- it sounds crazy, but you CAN be pretty comfy in sub zero wind chills.
Couple final thoughts...
1) Dome schmome... The Bills new stadium isn't going to be a dome, and hell will freeze over before the citizens built a dome to replace Lambeau up in Green Bay- both cities with arguably worse weather than Cleveland in January. & i haven't heard an uproar in Kansas City to replace Arrowhead either.
2) Should the Browns go the dome route- they're probably going to price me out of my season tickets. Especially if they try to gouge us season ticket holders more extortion to renew our PSLs in the new place.
1) Dome schmome... The Bills new stadium isn't going to be a dome, and hell will freeze over before the citizens built a dome to replace Lambeau up in Green Bay- both cities with arguably worse weather than Cleveland in January. & i haven't heard an uproar in Kansas City to replace Arrowhead either.
There absolutely has been talk this off-season of either radically renovating Arrowhead or replacing it.
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The only logical answer is to go dome in Brookpark.
There are sentimental reasons to stay downtown, but sentimental reason usually makes for poor business decisions. There are multiple reasons why the move should be made over staying put and going with the band-aide approach.
Thought I'd drop by... Though my personal opinion is a billion dollar upgrade to First Energy is my preference (sort of like Ohio State built a shell around the old Horseshoe) I have a feeling it's going to be a dome out in Brookpark. Muni Lot tailgate- RIP. With my 3 hour drive up north, the location really doesn't matter, but I'm not a dome fan. (and I've been to several)
As I've said many times- if you like the ambiance of a domed game, buy a widescreen TV, and watch the game in your living room. You'll save yourself a ton of money.
Some fans had to have amputations after the Chiefs playoff game this year. The game was not invented / intended as a winter sport. But games are being played practically into mid-winter.
The above is a great point. The Browns 1964 Championship game was played in mid December. Now, the playoffs extend well into January, with the Super Bowl in February. I feel for those Chiefs fans who lost body parts in that froze bowl, but it doesn't have to be that way IF you know how to dress for the weather. With my mountaineering and cold weather camping experience- it does involve spending plenty of $$$ on cold weather gear. Yeah, I know- it sounds crazy, but you CAN be pretty comfy in sub zero wind chills.
Couple final thoughts...
1) Dome schmome... The Bills new stadium isn't going to be a dome, and hell will freeze over before the citizens built a dome to replace Lambeau up in Green Bay- both cities with arguably worse weather than Cleveland in January. & i haven't heard an uproar in Kansas City to replace Arrowhead either.
2) Should the Browns go the dome route- they're probably going to price me out of my season tickets. Especially if they try to gouge us season ticket holders more extortion to renew our PSLs in the new place.
Thought I'd drop by... Though my personal opinion is a billion dollar upgrade to First Energy is my preference (sort of like Ohio State built a shell around the old Horseshoe) I have a feeling it's going to be a dome out in Brookpark. Muni Lot tailgate- RIP. With my 3 hour drive up north, the location really doesn't matter, but I'm not a dome fan. (and I've been to several)
As I've said many times- if you like the ambiance of a domed game, buy a widescreen TV, and watch the game in your living room. You'll save yourself a ton of money.
The above is a great point. The Browns 1964 Championship game was played in mid December. Now, the playoffs extend well into January, with the Super Bowl in February. I feel for those Chiefs fans who lost body parts in that froze bowl, but it doesn't have to be that way IF you know how to dress for the weather. With my mountaineering and cold weather camping experience- it does involve spending plenty of $$$ on cold weather gear. Yeah, I know- it sounds crazy, but you CAN be pretty comfy in sub zero wind chills.
Couple final thoughts...
1) Dome schmome... The Bills new stadium isn't going to be a dome, and hell will freeze over before the citizens built a dome to replace Lambeau up in Green Bay- both cities with arguably worse weather than Cleveland in January. & i haven't heard an uproar in Kansas City to replace Arrowhead either.
2) Should the Browns go the dome route- they're probably going to price me out of my season tickets. Especially if they try to gouge us season ticket holders more extortion to renew our PSLs in the new place.
There probably won't be PSL's in the new stadium. The team has been getting away from those for 10 years now. Even if they do, our PSL's are for the current stadium. I haven't read the language of the PSL in some time, but I doubt the PSL I hold will have any transfer rights to the new stadium. And if so, it won't be for similar seats. I won't be able to just settle in to Club Seats and you won't be able to settle in to your lower bowl seats on an even trade. I understand the frustration, but it seems foolish to question that you aren't going to be hit with a $8000 to $12,000 increase in your PSL if by chance you are offered a transfer.
Plus, face it, by the time all of this comes down, we probably won't be going to many games. If we hadn't had this resurgence, I would probably not hold season tickets this year.
And come on, I don't agree that watching a Browns game in a dome is the same as watching on TV.
As for the PSL's, I never bought them thinking of them as some sort of investment or getting my money back. I can't remember if I paid $1500 per seat or $2000 per seat. That money was spent 17 years ago. That money is gone as far as i am concerned. I am not going to jump through hoops trying to recoup a fairly insignificant amount of money.
One last point, I can't speak for some of the KC fans, but I know how to dress for weather. I have all sorts of warm weather gear and rated boots. It still gets way cold.
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Being anti dome is being anti Cleveland. All because of some misguided sense of masculinity. A dome is easily the best option for our city's economy. We can't have a massive investment sitting a huge portion of the year.
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Being anti dome is being anti Cleveland. All because of some misguided sense of masculinity. A dome is easily the best option for our city's economy. We can't have a massive investment sitting a huge portion of the year.
All because of some misguided sense of masculinity.
I just don't see how it can be put any better than that.
.......and get rid of those damned sideline heaters too! Ahh the days of Bud Grant and the Minnesota Vikings...That's when men were men!
︎. That's it.
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