Does the start of this season prove it wasn't Romeo's fault?
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DA had 28 or so games to prove something, and he proved that he had a good 9 game stretch against a few of the worst defenses in the league. He then proved that he couldn't solve the cover 2 defense, and everyone promptly employed it against him (except for the Giants, and look how that turned out).
yawn. don't bore us with this garbage.
Nobody is buying this but BQ Nation. nobody.
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According to posters in another thread, Phil was high on Russell but Slick Al beat him to it. If that is the case, hopefully Mangini takes over in future drafts. Ownership can't stand behind Phil forever. We need the Browns to get on with it and become strong again. No matter what these new Steelers "fans" say, there is no rivalry stronger, better, add any adjective here, than Steelers vs Browns in the NFL.
FYI - before posting on a rival board, try to know something about the team other than news blips you happen upon. Savage is gone and has been for some time. We now have Kokinas as our GM, who is a good friend of Mangini and was actually hand selected BY Mangini...so you can be assured they will work together on the drafting of players.
The Browns have basically jettisoned a lot of average players and brought in a bunch of intelligent role players in an effort, IMHO, to teach the young guys what it takes to be a professional and to win.
Over the last years, the Browns PLAYERS were the ones with the loudest voices, and many of those were nothing more than complaints. Now, it is MANGINI with the loudest voice (even if he doesn't say much) and HE is controlling the locker room not only with his presence, but with the presence of consummate professionals who buy into his system.
Often times when you are changing the CULTURE of a team, you have to actually reduce the talent at first. That may have been the case this off-season in certain positions.
As for the QB situation, that is a calculated risk for the betterment of the team down the line. The Browns already knew that DA was not the long term answer...they just need to know if BQ can be. If not, our record will reflect that and leave us in a position to draft one of the top 2 QB's (McCoy/Bradford), and bring in a veteran (I bet Pennington is available soon).
Therefore, I am willing to take this year on the chin to see if the Browns FO finally has a clue.
FYI - before posting on a rival board, try to know something about the team other than news blips you happen upon. Savage is gone and has been for some time. We now have Kokinas as our GM, who is a good friend of Mangini and was actually hand selected BY Mangini...so you can be assured they will work together on the drafting of players.
The Browns have basically jettisoned a lot of average players and brought in a bunch of intelligent role players in an effort, IMHO, to teach the young guys what it takes to be a professional and to win.
Over the last years, the Browns PLAYERS were the ones with the loudest voices, and many of those were nothing more than complaints. Now, it is MANGINI with the loudest voice (even if he doesn't say much) and HE is controlling the locker room not only with his presence, but with the presence of consummate professionals who buy into his system.
Often times when you are changing the CULTURE of a team, you have to actually reduce the talent at first. That may have been the case this off-season in certain positions.
As for the QB situation, that is a calculated risk for the betterment of the team down the line. The Browns already knew that DA was not the long term answer...they just need to know if BQ can be. If not, our record will reflect that and leave us in a position to draft one of the top 2 QB's (McCoy/Bradford), and bring in a veteran (I bet Pennington is available soon).
Therefore, I am willing to take this year on the chin to see if the Browns FO finally has a clue.
My bad. I even remember when he was fired. Just forgot and I got off base anyhow in regards to my original post. Yes, DA had a bad ending in 07? after a good start, but in that good start he looked really good. I never really understood what happened to him at the end or the next season.
With all of the competition for the #1 job at QB I think DA deserves a shot if Quinn doesnt pay off. Quinn, however deserves to play at least the 1st 10 games because 2 games proves nothing. Just think if Drew Brees didnt get a fair chance.
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FYI - before posting on a rival board, try to know something about the team other than news blips you happen upon. Savage is gone and has been for some time. We now have Kokinas as our GM, who is a good friend of Mangini and was actually hand selected BY Mangini...so you can be assured they will work together on the drafting of players.
The Browns have basically jettisoned a lot of average players and brought in a bunch of intelligent role players in an effort, IMHO, to teach the young guys what it takes to be a professional and to win.
Over the last years, the Browns PLAYERS were the ones with the loudest voices, and many of those were nothing more than complaints. Now, it is MANGINI with the loudest voice (even if he doesn't say much) and HE is controlling the locker room not only with his presence, but with the presence of consummate professionals who buy into his system.
Often times when you are changing the CULTURE of a team, you have to actually reduce the talent at first. That may have been the case this off-season in certain positions.
As for the QB situation, that is a calculated risk for the betterment of the team down the line. The Browns already knew that DA was not the long term answer...they just need to know if BQ can be. If not, our record will reflect that and leave us in a position to draft one of the top 2 QB's (McCoy/Bradford), and bring in a veteran (I bet Pennington is available soon).
Therefore, I am willing to take this year on the chin to see if the Browns FO finally has a clue.
My bad. I even remember when he was fired. Just forgot and I got off base anyhow in regards to my original post. Yes, DA had a bad ending in 07? after a good start, but in that good start he looked really good. I never really understood what happened to him at the end or the next season.
With all of the competition for the #1 job at QB I think DA deserves a shot if Quinn doesnt pay off. Quinn, however deserves to play at least the 1st 10 games because 2 games proves nothing. Just think if Drew Brees didnt get a fair chance.
My bad. I even remember when he was fired. Just forgot and I got off base anyhow in regards to my original post. Yes, DA had a bad ending in 07? after a good start, but in that good start he looked really good. I never really understood what happened to him at the end or the next season.
With all of the competition for the #1 job at QB I think DA deserves a shot if Quinn doesnt pay off. Quinn, however deserves to play at least the 1st 10 games because 2 games proves nothing. Just think if Drew Brees didnt get a fair chance.
While I agree giving Quinn 10 games or even the whole season makes sense for the development of him, it wouldn't surprise me if they benched him if he continues to suck it up before his large incentive for making so many starts kicks in. Especially with the economy the way it is and the way teams are struggling to sell games out, they will look to cut costs any way possible.
Just a theory...
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The one area that is holding the Browns back is the QB position, in my opinion. Find your new Bernie and find your way out of the cellar........Does Anderson warrant another shot or is it 1st round, 1st pick QB time? Well, the Lions will always own the 1st pick, but you get my meaning.........
The one area that is holding the Browns back is the QB position, in my opinion. Find your new Bernie and find your way out of the cellar........Does Anderson warrant another shot or is it 1st round, 1st pick QB time? Well, the Lions will always own the 1st pick, but you get my meaning.........
You're a dip shit.
We need right side OL and a decent running back.
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Masters said:
And apparently Eric Mangini so far.Oh, and the other NFL teams that needed a QB and didn't even make a try for DA in the offseason (at least that any new outlet could get a hold of).
Really?Tell me then oh prophet of all things....why didn't anyone make a REAL...note the word real, offer for quinn? I really don't get this quinn adoration...this guy has done nothing,and I expect another poor showing from him this Sunday.
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Masters said:
And apparently Eric Mangini so far.Oh, and the other NFL teams that needed a QB and didn't even make a try for DA in the offseason (at least that any new outlet could get a hold of).
Really?Tell me then oh prophet of all things....why didn't anyone make a REAL...note the word real, offer for quinn? I really don't get this quinn adoration...this guy has done nothing,and I expect another poor showing from him this Sunday.
Really?Tell me then oh prophet of all things....why didn't anyone make a REAL...note the word real, offer for quinn? I really don't get this quinn adoration...this guy has done nothing,and I expect another poor showing from him this Sunday.
Profit of all things? Hardly.
Who knows if any reported trade offer is real. But there were at least rumored/reported ones for Quinn this offseason. As I said in the post you responded to, "at least that any new outlet could get a hold of". There were reported for Quinn. There were zero for DA. Doesn't mean no one was interested, but not interested enough to cause a ripple in the press pool.
And I have no adoration for Quinn. He's played all of 5 NFL games total. It's the adoration for DA that doesn't make sense. It's just like the adoration for Kelly Holcomb.
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The one area that is holding the Browns back is the QB position, in my opinion. Find your new Bernie and find your way out of the cellar........Does Anderson warrant another shot or is it 1st round, 1st pick QB time? Well, the Lions will always own the 1st pick, but you get my meaning.........
You're a dip shit.
We need right side OL and a decent running back.
AdaM said:
You're a dip shit.We need right side OL and a decent running back.
Getting a right side and a RB that are pro bowl worthy won't bring success to the QB position.
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Debatable good moves? Drafting Thomas (See Peterson and the fact that Thomas is solid, but not spectacular)
I agreed with everything you said until this. He allowed what, 1 sack his rookie year?? And 4.5 last year? yeah 4.5 is no improvement, but I'm sure I don't need to get into how bad our team was last year....it can't all be placed on him. Bottom line is JT is a stud and some may call me crazy for it but I'll take him over Peterson anyday...this team is not ready for an elite running back, it would just be wasted talent.
I agreed with everything you said until this. He allowed what, 1 sack his rookie year?? And 4.5 last year? yeah 4.5 is no improvement, but I'm sure I don't need to get into how bad our team was last year....it can't all be placed on him. Bottom line is JT is a stud and some may call me crazy for it but I'll take him over Peterson anyday...this team is not ready for an elite running back, it would just be wasted talent.
I respect your opinion. Depends how you rate Peterson. I think he's a once-in-a-generation back.
I'm not saying that JT isn't a very good LT -- he is. I would not rate him as a Munoz, Ogden rare breed exception to the LT position that substantially elevates a team at this point though. I'm not at all a JT hater. He's probably the second best football player on the Browns. I do disagree however with the idea that you prioritize LT over RB.
A common denominator of the last two years has been Thomas's solid LT play. We all agree. Yet we went from an explosive offense to an inept one from 2007 to 2008. Surely that had nothing to do with JT.
So why did it happen? Winslow wasn't Winslow of 2007. Stallworth was a piss-poor replacement for JJ. A decline in the effectiveness of our skilled players, to me, seems to be the big reason for our decline. You might add better competition and another year on Lewis.
Another point. Go back to the same draft we took JT. Indy needed to pick up a starting LT that season due to retirment of a very good LT. Yet they drafted a slot receiver with their first pick (Gonzalez) and drafted a LT in the second round (Yugo -- I know this is not spelled right). That guy has struggled over the last two years to stay in the line-up. In the meantime, Manning has continued to lead an explosive offense and start the most consecutive games without injury.
My point? I think that skilled players . . . and especially a stud RB . . . can elevate a mediocre offense far more than a very good LT. A weak link at any point in an offensive line can negate even a very good LT's play in the passing game. And because of his draft position JT is going to be eating up a sizeable chunk of this team's salary cap allotment, making it harder to fill the RB, OL and probably QB (add LBer and Safety) holes that this team has. Traditionally, a top paid left tackle has eventually led to irreversible salary cap problems (See Seahawks, Rams and Ravens).
A top LT (who isn't Ogden or Munoz) in my opinion is a luxury. Ogden and Munoz were the exceptions because they not only walled off the QB's blind side without help, they were also the team's road grader -- essentially combining the qualities and undertaking the duties of a team's top 2 offensive linemen. For this team to build a running game in the Mangini system we need road graders up the middle and while a spectacular back might not be needed, he sure as heck wouldn't hurt. Until we can run right behind Thomas when everyone knows we are running there to consistently pick up our 3rd and 2 -- like Ogden in Baltimore or Munoz in Cincy -- I just can't rate him as so important to the offense that his value exceeds (or comes close to matching) Peterson's.
A top LT didn't stop us from getting every QB we sent out hurt last season or from having a mostly inept offense. If we could have ridden a horse like Peterson, defenses might not have been able to pin their ears back so often.
That's my opinion.
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Romeo might have been a good coach but who really knows? Chud called a terrible game each week and Savage made roster decisions. Was RAC ever really in charge of anything? I'm glad he got his pay-day and retired. He's a good guy and got screwed while he was here.
Back to the issue, 10 years of blown drafts, a rush to start young players, and not developing players. That's what the problem is with this franchise. Palmer drafted like a 15 year old fanboy, Butch ran all of our veterans out of town, and the RAC regime was given AWEFUL players and were pressured to play young players too soon.
Romeo might have been a good coach but who really knows? Chud called a terrible game each week and Savage made roster decisions. Was RAC ever really in charge of anything? I'm glad he got his pay-day and retired. He's a good guy and got screwed while he was here.
Back to the issue, 10 years of blown drafts, a rush to start young players, and not developing players. That's what the problem is with this franchise. Palmer drafted like a 15 year old fanboy, Butch ran all of our veterans out of town, and the RAC regime was given AWEFUL players and were pressured to play young players too soon.
Agreed. RAC made bad decisions with regards to challenges and timeouts, but a lot of the decisions--especially on offense--were taken out of his hands. There was an interesting story in ESPN's magazine a while ago about the Billy Beane effect in baseball, how teams now trend toward a powerful GM who makes the decisions while the manager is relegated to a more minor role. At least on the offensive side of the ball, it look like that's what happened to the Browns. You had Phil's assistant coach coaching Phil's players.
The defensive side is another story. Still Phil's players, but RAC's system. His biggest failure was that he clearly came into the job thinking that he could pretty much bring in the system that they use in NE and have it work with the Browns, and he failed to adapt when it didn't work. Kind of like Chris Palmer with the offense. Which, given their coaching backgrounds, shouldn't be too much of a shock. Somehow, working for guys like Parcells, Belichick, and Coughlin doesn't quite prepare you for a career of compromising your original idea...go figure.
Dennis
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If ever Eirc Mangini too gets fired for failure sometime in the future, can we please stop bringing in people from the Belichek tree ? please ?
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