How long does the new regime have?
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Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality.
That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple.
Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality.
That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple.
Like it or not, excuse or not, it is what it is.
Tell me, how are we going to win right now?? I am all for it.
Please explain how we do that??
I know a guy who is a saint and browns fan....nice guy
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@.mz said:
Perhaps he doesn't have the same ability he had when we drafted him, but he's still a top-5 pass-catching TE in the NFL.This was from Sunday. Is that "serviceable?"
Yeah. A young QB couldn't use a weapon like this. Who cares if he won't play until he's 40. You like David Veikune that much??? Probably. I guess I'm supposed to infer in your "wording" that you approve of what Mankok did with the riches TB gave us for Kellen?
You said it right there.....pass catching.
Everything this new staff had demonstrated so far is pass catching TE's isn't what they want. Blocking is the premium they seek...or at least a balance between the two....as well as KW could catch, he was equally inept as a blocker.
True statement about the blocking, but did you see that catch? He made WrongWich look good, and that can be very hard to do.
You said it right there.....pass catching.
Everything this new staff had demonstrated so far is pass catching TE's isn't what they want. Blocking is the premium they seek...or at least a balance between the two....as well as KW could catch, he was equally inept as a blocker.
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@.mz said:
That's not an explanation. That's an opinion.Now explain to me exactly why trading Winslow and subsequently neglecting the TE position (which would seem vital for our young QB...Winslow was a guy who seemed to have rapport with said QB already, last season) makes sense.
The explanation is in the wording. Kellen is a old 27 and he doesn't have the same ability than he did before the injuries. He may be able to put up another year or two of "serviceable" play, but Mankok sold high. If the Browns were close to winning it all, I would be mad, but we aren't so we do what is best for the 10's.
I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year.
So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year.
The explanation is in the wording. Kellen is a old 27 and he doesn't have the same ability than he did before the injuries. He may be able to put up another year or two of "serviceable" play, but Mankok sold high. If the Browns were close to winning it all, I would be mad, but we aren't so we do what is best for the 10's.
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Gotta love the "this is going to take some time" mentality.
That's the excuse of a loser, plain and simple.
How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint. If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise. Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole.
How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint.
Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise.
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
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How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint.
Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise.
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
ROLF!! They can disagree all they want, that situation is not here. Deal with that reality.
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Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
ROLF!! They can disagree all they want, that situation is not here. Deal with that reality.
Deal with that reality.
Ironic. I'm saying the same thing as well.
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How about "this is in progress and we need to see how it is going to play out"? Look I have nothing really invested in this team, my fiancee is a fan, so I keep up to date here so I can keep her up to date on game day. What I do know though is that coaching changes aren't like changing players. It takes time to observe, identify, and make conclusions on the overall changes to the team, both to the scheme and from a basic team mentality standpoint.
Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
If you change coaches every year or two, you probably won't find out which one is any good until he is already working for another franchise.
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
Also if other coaches see you going through guys before they really get a chance to show what they can do, do you think quality guys will be lining up to replace them? Fire Mangini after one year, and I bet Shanahan, Cowher, or any other of the "quality" coaches wouldn't touch your FO with a ten foot pole.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
Sean Payton, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano, and Mike Singletary will certainly disagree with that. (and don't give me anything about Singletary being there to begin with. He's got that offense scoring with authority on the ground.)
All those guys have something in common, a team that went to the playoffs more than 1 time since 2000 with the coach employed before the coach you listed. I am not saying the guys you mentioned aren't good coaches, I think they are for the most part (particularly Payton). They did however have some weapons available to them when they took over. I don't see a single name on that list that was in as bad shape as Mangini. More top 5 picks than winning seasons in the past decade, a raging QB controversy that has been allowed to brew so long it divides the fan base, weak individual units on both sides of the ball, two prima donna recieving threats looking for ways off the team, d-line men punching the QB in the lockerroom. I fail to see how that compares to going to the Ravens who had 1 bad season, but prior to that went 13-3 taking the division, had multiple players with superbowl rings on thier fingers, and were annual playoff contenders. If you want to build a successful organization, that are consistantly in the playoff hunt, with a culture of winning in the locker room, you have a long way to go, and I think it would be silly to just keep desperately grasping at straws year after year instead of having a little patience.
I wouldn't fire a coach if I saw some progress right out the gates. But we're still seeing D softer than a pillow and offense that has some kind of endzonephobia. These appear to be the exact same problems we had under RAC.
If it is the same problem as seen before, maybe it is the personel, not the coaching. Mangini is rapidly moving through personel finding the guys he thinks will fit his system, wait for a few of those to acclimate to a point where they can affect the game and you might see something different. Progress is the key, and I understand that you have had two rough games to get started, but I don't think any definative evaluation can be made off four preseason games and two regular season. I don't think it can even be made off a single full season. Two seasons of absolutely no change, or negative growth might be enough of an indicator. I tend to think though that if there is any kind of positive movement, even just on one side of the ball, not necessarily reflected in the W/L column, you still need to give enough time for the complete plan to take effect before making a final judegement.
Good. I don't want any of them. Stop living off the past already. Those coaches have left their former glory (maybe with the exception of Cowher) with their former team.
Good luck finding your young genius, and I really mean that, I would like to see you guys doing well. The offensive romp three seasons ago was a lot of fun for my Fiancee and me. Just keep in mind the job experience section of a resume is there for a reason.
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I tend to think though that if there is any kind of positive movement, even just on one side of the ball, not necessarily reflected in the W/L column, you still need to give enough time for the complete plan to take effect before making a final judegement.
Did you see enough "positive movement' today?
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I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year.
So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year.
The explanation is in the wording. Kellen is a old 27 and he doesn't have the same ability than he did before the injuries. He may be able to put up another year or two of "serviceable" play, but Mankok sold high. If the Browns were close to winning it all, I would be mad, but we aren't so we do what is best for the 10's.
I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year.
So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year.
Question: Is Braylon a(n) UFA? Or is he Restricted? If the former, then there can be no doubt that we trade him this year. We *need* to trade him if Mangini is committed to actually building this team, because if Braylon is here 3 years from now, hats will be eaten. If he is restricted... well, we see what people are willing to give up.
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I think you nailed it. Like it or not Mangini seems to be making moves that will pay off more so in Year 3 on the job rather than this year.
So far he seems committed to taking his lumps this year.
Question: Is Braylon a(n) UFA? Or is he Restricted? If the former, then there can be no doubt that we trade him this year. We *need* to trade him if Mangini is committed to actually building this team, because if Braylon is here 3 years from now, hats will be eaten. If he is restricted... well, we see what people are willing to give up.
Question: Is Braylon a(n) UFA? Or is he Restricted? If the former, then there can be no doubt that we trade him this year. We *need* to trade him if Mangini is committed to actually building this team, because if Braylon is here 3 years from now, hats will be eaten. If he is restricted... well, we see what people are willing to give up.
It all depends on if next season is uncapped or not. With no new CBA in place BE becomes a RFA instead of UFA.
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I tend to think though that if there is any kind of positive movement, even just on one side of the ball, not necessarily reflected in the W/L column, you still need to give enough time for the complete plan to take effect before making a final judegement.
Did you see enough "positive movement' today?
Did you see enough "positive movement' today?
No, but that's exactly my point. You waited all of an off season and three games to get to this point. Maybe the revolving door at coach will land you someone better next time, but how will you know if you don't give them enough time to implement a system and execute with it. Mangini is being hung with the rope you had left over from Crennell. WTF do I care anyways, go ahead and pin the blame on your scapegoat. It's not even my team, I'm not gonna bother arguing a point you should already know.
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So, once again - How long does the new regime have?
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How long did Romeo have? Shorter than that, that's for damn sure.
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