WHY ARE THE BROWNS BAD?
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You know chuck for a Steeler troll you have some pretty good knowledge of the Browns. Although, I'd rather you make fun of us because that means we're not sucking as bad
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Getting your expansion team with limited talent was a bad start. Not drafting enough impact players prolonged the futility.
I thought the BQ pick was pretty huge at the time and it still might turn out to be so. Don't forget, this kid's still a sprout and being under constant scrutiny on a shitty team doesn't do much for a kids confidence.
K2 was a fantastic pic and he blew up. Aside from that, your high picks have been marginal so far.
Picking up guys in FA rarely works unless it's filling gaps with middle of the road guys. Ask Danny Snyder, he annually spends truckloads of cash in FA but when's the last time they sniffed the playoffs?
DA's never going to amount to anything and I would think being patient with BQ would be the best long term solution. That and drafting defense first. You can become a better team by putting a good D together, the offense can come together after that. Keep the O-line solid.
WR's can be developed, trade BE for prospects. He's fallen from many graces at this point.
But the biggest point is, quoting Dennis Green - "yinz are who yinz though you were". Gotta suck this one up. Until you get the right mix of talent on that team, yinz are going to struggle to find that silver cloud and IMO - Mangina is a band aid. Yinz need a guy who can gut that team, carve off all the fat and develop guys from within. Mangina's not that guy, he's a warm body at best with a perceived pedigree, and unfortunately yinz are married to the guy for at least a couple years.
Pay attention to next year's draft. If yinz are drafting all offensive guys, start drinking heavily. It'll numb the prolonged suffering because it's a sign that Mangina wants a quick fix and that's not the solution.
Regards
.... an'at
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Steeler SChuck said:
Getting your expansion team with limited talent was a bad start. Not drafting enough impact players prolonged the futility.I thought the BQ pick was pretty huge at the time and it still might turn out to be so. Don't forget, this kid's still a sprout and being under constant scrutiny on a shitty team doesn't do much for a kids confidence.
K2 was a fantastic pic and he blew up. Aside from that, your high picks have been marginal so far.
Picking up guys in FA rarely works unless it's filling gaps with middle of the road guys. Ask Danny Snyder, he annually spends truckloads of cash in FA but when's the last time they sniffed the playoffs?
DA's never going to amount to anything and I would think being patient with BQ would be the best long term solution. That and drafting defense first. You can become a better team by putting a good D together, the offense can come together after that. Keep the O-line solid.
WR's can be developed, trade BE for prospects. He's fallen from many graces at this point.
But the biggest point is, quoting Dennis Green - "yinz are who yinz though you were". Gotta suck this one up. Until you get the right mix of talent on that team, yinz are going to struggle to find that silver cloud and IMO - Mangina is a band aid. Yinz need a guy who can gut that team, carve off all the fat and develop guys from within. Mangina's not that guy, he's a warm body at best with a perceived pedigree, and unfortunately yinz are married to the guy for at least a couple years.
Pay attention to next year's draft. If yinz are drafting all offensive guys, start drinking heavily. It'll numb the prolonged suffering because it's a sign that Mangina wants a quick fix and that's not the solution.
Regards
.... an'at
.
Nice analysis for a stooler fan you know your rivals bad traits well chuck and i agree completely an immediate impact position that would help right now would be at safety and this club hasnt had a game impacting safety in years and it shows a impact LB wouldnt hurt either...i think mangini may be a thrifty drafter and may be able to land a decent RG and RT on a basement bargain hunt in the 4th to 7th rd..
Im hoping mankok takes the rebuild route over the quick fix even though when your team is about to go 0-3 the quick fix starts sounding good....hehehehe
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The Browns haven't had dominating offensive or defensive lines.
You can interchange rb's and qb's, but even though, yes, they would be different talents,
you still need those guys up front.
The Browns oline has finally been fixed on the left side and at center. ah well. We'll see what the Browns do to
fix the leaks from the right side. At least St. Claire and Pork Chop can hold their ground and don't get pushed
backwards into Quinn. Well, they can go around, but not through anymore.
Our defensive line looks pretty good to me, with Rogers in there, epecially, But the Browns still don't have a shut down cb,
The Browns can't just fix the weaknesses in one season under Mangini. Getting Robieski in there to get open quickly would
make a world of difference to the offense.
I predict a Browns win, dangit.
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WHY ARE THE BROWNS BAD?
'Cause it's not 1962?
Pops
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didnt the Jets spend a lot of money on FA's ?
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Romeo Crennel NFL 2005-08 (0.375) 0-0-0
(Terry Robiskie NFL 2004* 1-4-0
Butch Davis NFL 2001-04 24-35-0
Chris Palmer NFL 1999-2000 5-27-0
Eric Mangini..1st year Right now
Well maybe it is not the coaching, GM or players.
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didnt the Jets spend a lot of money on FA's ?
didnt the Jets spend a lot of money on FA's ?
Yes they did, and there is nothing wrong with free agents if you get good ones. HOWEVER.. I did go look at who they have drafted in the past 3 years.. Mangini's drafts.. Several Good solid picks are at the core of the current team. D'brick Furgeson T , Nick mangold C , Dustin Keller TE, d. lowery DB, Darrelle Revis DB, David Harris LB, Kellen Clemens, Leon Washington, Chansi Stucki to name a few he drafted that are on the current Roster.. They also had some players from prior drafts still on the team too. But Mangini did a good job with what he had and made major contributions to the team that is on the field this year. It seems to me he knows what he is doing. He was handed a crap team and is trying to make the best of it.. I never expected this team to be very good this year or even next year..what I do expect is for the owner to finally allow at least ONE coach to stick around long enough to see a plan through..
3 years and rebuild again with a new coach/gm is no plan at all..that is exactly what we have done the past 10 years.
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2015???
That is a looooong rope. -
Steeler Chuck is mostly correct. The drafts since 1999 have yielded few impact players. Attempts in the free agent market haven't done much better except for Shaun Rogers. It isn't about the Xs and the Os it is about the players. I think Mangini/Kokinis truely understand this and will build a tough and talented team.
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2015???
That is a looooong rope.I agree it's a long rope, but I have seen the opposite result work to our own CURRENT demise. turning over coach after coach after coach along with the GM's certainly is not working. I am willing to try the opposite approach.. Seems like it may be working in Cinci who should be 3-0 as noted in my original post, but for a fluke play by denver.. I mean they have now beaten the Packers and the Steelers.. Marv lewis is in year 7... only 1 winning season so far..they have stayed the course and it appears like it might be paying off. Lets just say what we have been doing has not worked.. We have been so bad the past decade.. do we really lose anything by giving a guy more time? if so, What?....Sure seems to me we have a lot more to gain by letting a guy stay. Again I refer to my original thread in this.
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7 years is a very long time to wait for a winner.
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7 years is a very long time to wait for a winner.
7 years is a long time. I agree. However the last time we went to consecutive playoff games was 1986,87,88 with the team Marty built.. that is 21 years ago.. Get my point????? 7 years does not seem so long now.. Who's to say it won't happen sooner than 7 years.. I am just saying that having a revolving turnstyle of coaches every 3 years has not worked because the team gets dismantled every 3 years..
Butch dismantled the team Palmer had, then Romeo dismanteld the team Butch had, Now Mangini has dismantled the team Romeo had.. I am willing to try a different approach.
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Look no futher than the Jets.. I see the type of team Mangini will build here..
I thought mangini brought half the Jets here with him? That means there are several new players on the Jets right now, right? Including a rookie qb, right?
Listen, I'm not saying Sanchez is going to be awesome, but he's starting out a little better than anybody we have.
I want to give Mangini time, don't get me wrong. I agree with your post. You can't expect a miracle, and that's what a one year turn around usually is.
But when something in my gut just doesn't feel right, it's a constant battle to continuously remind myself .... patience man, patience.
RAC for example. I was done after year two. Without a doubt. Didn't need a third year. Started on this board to say so and everyone here has had to deal with me since.
Yes, it's way too early to judge Mangini, but it's not too early to gather evidence.
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Playcalling
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Wow, 6 years. I was thinking 3-4 with gradual signs of improvement before deciding a course of action, 6 is a long time to wait. Props to Chuck, here I thought he was nothing but a troll (granted a knowledgeable one) til now, and then he comes and drops some truth on the situation. I don't think Mangini is just a warm body though. I think he could be a very good X's and O's guy in addition to playing the "bad cop" coach role. The problem as I see it is that you need a good personel guy to perform the gutting that Chuck mentioned, and another respected coach to play the "good cop" role to offset Mangini's fire and brimstone act.
Let's look at another thing to as far as giving the guy rope goes. I have mentioned this in other threads on this forum, but not really in detail. In Broncos nation there is considerable contemplation going to where Mike Shanahan might resurface. Lot's of teams have been named, Cowboys, Bears, Redskins at the forefront, but not the Browns. With Lerner being very much hands off on the football side of things, and giving GM powers to the coach in at least this latest regime, the Browns would look like a natural fit for Mike. But most in Broncos nation realize that if Mangini gets fired after a single season it shows the Browns organization has no patience for a true rebuilding effort, and that any coach that comes here rolls the dice with his career, being just as likely to be one and done as actually being able to mold a good football team.
No one wants to go into a job where there is a gun at thier temple from day one, and that applies to hot young prospects as well as seasoned veterans. The point is there is more than the immediate rebuild to be considered here. While giving the current coach time is necessary to see if his overall plan will work, it is also neccesary to make his replacement feel comfortable that his ideas will have time to come to fruition. If you want a coaching carousel of guys that are just there to collect a check, grab a new coach every year. If you actually want to build a competitive team base, you will have to have the patience to watch that foundation be laid and grow into more than a one year flash in the pan.
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