Currently our 2025 first round pick is....
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To Flugels post on Qbs. I have been talking about Dart for a good while. I think he can be a pretty darn good NFL QB. I'd take him over Sanders. Sanders is 40% HYPE.
To Flugels post on Qbs. I have been talking about Dart for a good while. I think he can be a pretty darn good NFL QB. I'd take him over Sanders. Sanders is 40% HYPE.
Thanks for sharing that! I can see why you feel that way. Like any promising prospect - they're at the mercy of what type of organization or disorganization takes them.
I haven't been wild about our QB choices at the apex of this draft. Sanders plays in a weak conference well guarded by his dad after playing for a much smaller DI school for his dad. Anyway, the 1st couple times I saw him in 2023 - it was kind of fun before he was battle tested by Oregon. That didn't go well for him or his dad at all. They looked like a Division III football program needing much better pass protection and run blocking; while the defense also got trampled giving him 0 margin of error to compete with. He blended in with stench just like Sam Darnold has had to as well as Baker Mayfield as recently as their Carolina experience. Same with Bruce Young. The difference? Mayfield, Darnold and Young never got coddled by their dad all the way up until the day they were drafted. Sanders seems like a good kid with potential - but I'm not sure.
I've started to think we should trade back a few places in round 1 so we can add a high round pick or 2 even a LT before we add the QB. 1 guy I thought of is 2 year starter Kyle McCord in a mid round that broke the single season ACC passing record per ESPN ...2024 season stats. YDS. 4,779. TD. 34. INT. 12. QBR. 78.6. His completion % was only 66%; BUT this is for Syracuse that won 10 games for the 1st time since Dwight Freeney played there many moons ago. BTW, he erased a deficit and won a shootout with Miami's Cam Ward. All that said in a 13 game season that had 12 INTs - 5 of those were in 1 game with a few pick 6s against Pitt. I listened to the commentary of former Colorado QB Joel Klatt when Syracuse recently beat GA Tech. He said Syracuse Receivers don't get much/if an separation on their go routes so Kyle and his WR Corps do a great job utilizing the back shoulder throws (completing a high %); and he said Pitt scouted that really well. This is just 1 idea from me that if we went the early mid-round route. Another QB that hasn't played his best football yet is Will Howard that may be a good QB for somebody with enough patience like Minnesota had this year looking to Darnold until their rookie 1st round QB was ready. Obviously, it doesn't have to be McCord.
No matter what we do; if we stick with the current OL - there's no chance for any success at QB. LT is a glaring need and must have. It'll be interesting to see our draft position after today.
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Hard to believe that Sanders and Ward are worse QBs than what we have. I think both have very high ceilings. Outside of that it's a bigger gamble. QB is the most important position and obviously our biggest need.
The amount of rookies that play in their rookie season nd do well continues to rise. The NFL is changing and while it may not be easier to be a QB it's certainly less dangerous with the provided protection.
I don't see how we could pass up a guy like Ward. I'd say keep Winston for a mentor and as someone who can help build positivity and culture.
To me these 2 QBs are worth an early pick from teams who have 0 talent at QB.
Hard to believe that Sanders and Ward are worse QBs than what we have. I think both have very high ceilings. Outside of that it's a bigger gamble. QB is the most important position and obviously our biggest need.
The amount of rookies that play in their rookie season nd do well continues to rise. The NFL is changing and while it may not be easier to be a QB it's certainly less dangerous with the provided protection.
I don't see how we could pass up a guy like Ward. I'd say keep Winston for a mentor and as someone who can help build positivity and culture.
To me these 2 QBs are worth an early pick from teams who have 0 talent at QB.
You want the Browns to waste a top 3 pick on guys "that should be better than the crap we have now?"
That sounds like a recipe for success.
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Hard to believe that Sanders and Ward are worse QBs than what we have. I think both have very high ceilings. Outside of that it's a bigger gamble. QB is the most important position and obviously our biggest need.
The amount of rookies that play in their rookie season nd do well continues to rise. The NFL is changing and while it may not be easier to be a QB it's certainly less dangerous with the provided protection.
I don't see how we could pass up a guy like Ward. I'd say keep Winston for a mentor and as someone who can help build positivity and culture.
To me these 2 QBs are worth an early pick from teams who have 0 talent at QB.
You want the Browns to waste a top 3 pick on guys "that should be better than the crap we have now?"
That sounds like a recipe for success.
You want the Browns to waste a top 3 pick on guys "that should be better than the crap we have now?"
That sounds like a recipe for success.
Yeah because 1 OL will really make a difference with a team that can't score more than 10 points.
Who saying it's a waste to draft either of these 2 QBs? They both seem pretty talented. You're not going to find Andrew Luck in every draft.
I'm saying it's an immediate upgrade in a position that is the most important to the team.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
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You want the Browns to waste a top 3 pick on guys "that should be better than the crap we have now?"
That sounds like a recipe for success.
Yeah because 1 OL will really make a difference with a team that can't score more than 10 points.
Who saying it's a waste to draft either of these 2 QBs? They both seem pretty talented. You're not going to find Andrew Luck in every draft.
I'm saying it's an immediate upgrade in a position that is the most important to the team.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
Yeah because 1 OL will really make a difference with a team that can't score more than 10 points.
Who saying it's a waste to draft either of these 2 QBs? They both seem pretty talented. You're not going to find Andrew Luck in every draft.
I'm saying it's an immediate upgrade in a position that is the most important to the team.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
It's laughable to think of Deion Sanders and his kid on the Cleveland Browns. It would be a complete clusterfuck. I don't hate Ward, I just think it's a big stretch for him to get drafted in the top 3 picks.
And apparently you'd throw him immediately on the field too. If you think he's worth a top 3 pick because he's talented enough, then I get why you want the Browns to draft him. I do not think he's worth that high of a pick, so I don't. I also question if he is a good fit with Stefanski, and since it appears he's sticking around, this matters to me too.
And I do not care at all about making this team "entertaining". Winning is entertaining, and this team isn't one offseason away from being a consistent winner. Reaching for a QB (IMO) isn't a good way to start the process.
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You want the Browns to waste a top 3 pick on guys "that should be better than the crap we have now?"
That sounds like a recipe for success.
Yeah because 1 OL will really make a difference with a team that can't score more than 10 points.
Who saying it's a waste to draft either of these 2 QBs? They both seem pretty talented. You're not going to find Andrew Luck in every draft.
I'm saying it's an immediate upgrade in a position that is the most important to the team.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
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You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
I knew someone would bring this clown up after I posted that. Manziel was a total reach and everyone knew it. Manziel was typical Haslam meddling with the team.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
The draft is about improving at positions of need. Ward and Sanders immediately improve the position of need.
I get it if people don't think they're worth it at the pick number.
In the end I don't trust out FO to make the right choice.
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Yeah because 1 OL will really make a difference with a team that can't score more than 10 points.
Who saying it's a waste to draft either of these 2 QBs? They both seem pretty talented. You're not going to find Andrew Luck in every draft.
I'm saying it's an immediate upgrade in a position that is the most important to the team.
You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
It's laughable to think of Deion Sanders and his kid on the Cleveland Browns. It would be a complete clusterfuck. I don't hate Ward, I just think it's a big stretch for him to get drafted in the top 3 picks.
And apparently you'd throw him immediately on the field too. If you think he's worth a top 3 pick because he's talented enough, then I get why you want the Browns to draft him. I do not think he's worth that high of a pick, so I don't. I also question if he is a good fit with Stefanski, and since it appears he's sticking around, this matters to me too.
And I do not care at all about making this team "entertaining". Winning is entertaining, and this team isn't one offseason away from being a consistent winner. Reaching for a QB (IMO) isn't a good way to start the process.
It's laughable to think of Deion Sanders and his kid on the Cleveland Browns. It would be a complete clusterfuck. I don't hate Ward, I just think it's a big stretch for him to get drafted in the top 3 picks.
And apparently you'd throw him immediately on the field too. If you think he's worth a top 3 pick because he's talented enough, then I get why you want the Browns to draft him. I do not think he's worth that high of a pick, so I don't. I also question if he is a good fit with Stefanski, and since it appears he's sticking around, this matters to me too.
And I do not care at all about making this team "entertaining". Winning is entertaining, and this team isn't one offseason away from being a consistent winner. Reaching for a QB (IMO) isn't a good way to start the process.
I never said I'd immediately throw him on the field. There's too many variables at play here and the team obviously has a ton of needs.
The Falcons gave Penix most of the season and he looked good game 1. But now the tape is out on him.
The flip side is if you draft a QB that high you tend to scare off anyone decent in FA because they'll know the moment the mess up, the fan base will be calling for the rookie.
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This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
I knew someone would bring this clown up after I posted that. Manziel was a total reach and everyone knew it. Manziel was typical Haslam meddling with the team.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
The draft is about improving at positions of need. Ward and Sanders immediately improve the position of need.
I get it if people don't think they're worth it at the pick number.
In the end I don't trust out FO to make the right choice.
I knew someone would bring this clown up after I posted that. Manziel was a total reach and everyone knew it. Manziel was typical Haslam meddling with the team.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
The draft is about improving at positions of need. Ward and Sanders immediately improve the position of need.
I get it if people don't think they're worth it at the pick number.
In the end I don't trust out FO to make the right choice.
I don't disagree they're better prospects. I'm pointing out your reasoning I quoted was flawed, that's all.
I'm two games in on Ward. I'll check back after the third.
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I knew someone would bring this clown up after I posted that. Manziel was a total reach and everyone knew it. Manziel was typical Haslam meddling with the team.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
The draft is about improving at positions of need. Ward and Sanders immediately improve the position of need.
I get it if people don't think they're worth it at the pick number.
In the end I don't trust out FO to make the right choice.
I don't disagree they're better prospects. I'm pointing out your reasoning I quoted was flawed, that's all.
I'm two games in on Ward. I'll check back after the third.
I don't disagree they're better prospects. I'm pointing out your reasoning I quoted was flawed, that's all.
I'm two games in on Ward. I'll check back after the third.
I guess you can chop up my statement as flawed in your perspective.
My point is two fold - first and foremost the team immediately improves in the position. Two - the team becomes more entertaining at least in the short term but possibly long term by drafting said QB.
I'll take entertaining football over the crap we've been dealing with for 20+ years. This year was unwatchable for the most part.
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You know what else a QB pick brings? Eyeballs. Who wants to watch this team after they draft another lineman to block for shit QB play? At least it will be entertaining for a bit to see how one of these guys plays.
This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
This is exactly what's wrong with Haslem. GLITZ! Remember, he hired Parcells to evaluate the QB's that year. And Bill told him, Whatever you do just don't draft Manziel.
Yes, we need OLine help. Probably an OL coach too. So draft OL also. Use FA. But we need the most important position on the team. And if you're in position to pick THE best QB, or the 2nd best...and you don't...then I got nothin' for ya. The main reason that teams wind up drafting in the top 5 is because of their QB issues (Jaguars had theirs get injured).
If we wind up with pick #1 or 2 and don't pick a QB, the next team is gonna say Thank You Very Much and draft one. And we'll be the laughing stock once again. It's a no brainer. Because even if the player washes out, nobody can blame you. The draft is a crap-shoot...no matter what position/player you draft there are odds that the player will not be worth the pick.
Now, having said that, if you do your research and find that those two top of the draft QB's are not any better than a guy you could get in round 2. Or someone you could get later in the round, then sure, draft someone else or trade down. But if you're gonna stick your head in the sand because the organization drafted bad QB's in the past, then, again, I got nothin' for ya.
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
I don't disagree they're better prospects. I'm pointing out your reasoning I quoted was flawed, that's all.
I'm two games in on Ward. I'll check back after the third.
I guess you can chop up my statement as flawed in your perspective.
My point is two fold - first and foremost the team immediately improves in the position. Two - the team becomes more entertaining at least in the short term but possibly long term by drafting said QB.
I'll take entertaining football over the crap we've been dealing with for 20+ years. This year was unwatchable for the most part.
I'll take entertaining football over the crap we've been dealing with for 20+ years. This year was unwatchable for the most part.
I'd say my issue, with anything of what youre saying, is that amount of assumption made. Winston was an all-american and national champion. Zappe' broke D-1 passing records as a Topper, DTR was an all conference QB twice.
There is no guarantee that the position is immediately improved (with Sanders I believe it is, even though I'd prefer he sit half a season) and that it will be "entertaining" when a rookie starts. Throwing a rookie out who may not be ready to start and negatively affecting their development is hardly an entertainment. And Ward still needs some serious work on this mechanics before he's ready to be a full-time *consistent* NFL passer.
And we'll be the laughing stock once again.
No, losing games and making questionable NFL apples to apples decisions makes you a laughing stock. Draft strategy, especially when you say "we don't have him evaluated as high on our board" and your scouting pans out means, as the kids say "you keep receipts". The 2019 draft is another great example.
I'd suggest this, to the both of you. Look at the data the last 20 years on the amount of drafts that produced high level starters in the 1st round compared to multiple high-level busts. It's pretty telling. No, you don't stick your head in the sand. You wait until the opportune time, when you've identified "your guy" and then you move and invest the draft capital. That's, that's all. I think we understand each other.
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This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
This is exactly what's wrong with Haslem. GLITZ! Remember, he hired Parcells to evaluate the QB's that year. And Bill told him, Whatever you do just don't draft Manziel.
Yes, we need OLine help. Probably an OL coach too. So draft OL also. Use FA. But we need the most important position on the team. And if you're in position to pick THE best QB, or the 2nd best...and you don't...then I got nothin' for ya. The main reason that teams wind up drafting in the top 5 is because of their QB issues (Jaguars had theirs get injured).
If we wind up with pick #1 or 2 and don't pick a QB, the next team is gonna say Thank You Very Much and draft one. And we'll be the laughing stock once again. It's a no brainer. Because even if the player washes out, nobody can blame you. The draft is a crap-shoot...no matter what position/player you draft there are odds that the player will not be worth the pick.
Now, having said that, if you do your research and find that those two top of the draft QB's are not any better than a guy you could get in round 2. Or someone you could get later in the round, then sure, draft someone else or trade down. But if you're gonna stick your head in the sand because the organization drafted bad QB's in the past, then, again, I got nothin' for ya.
If we wind up with pick #1 or 2 and don't pick a QB, the next team is gonna say Thank You Very Much and draft one. And we'll be the laughing stock once again. It's a no brainer. Because even if the player washes out, nobody can blame you. The draft is a crap-shoot...no matter what position/player you draft there are odds that the player will not be worth the pick.
Here's a list of quarterbacks taken in the top 11 picks of the draft since 2010 that actually made the team that drafted them a laughingstock. I would argue that there isn't one in the group that is a shock that he didn't turn out to be great. Most even at the time they were drafted were probably thought of by those who really scout NFL draft prospects as having some serious flaws:
Sam Bradford (#1, 2010), Jake Locker (#8, 2011) and Blaine Gabbert (#10, 2011), Blake Bortles (#3, 2014), Marcus Mariota (#2, 2015), Mitchell Trubisky (#2, 2017), Josh Rosen (#10, 2018), Daniel Jones (#6, 2019), Zach Wilson (#2, 2021), Trey Lance (#3, 2021) and Justin Fields (#11, 2021), Anthony Richardson (#4, 2023).
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This was exactly why Haslam drafted Manziel. It drew a ton of eyes, more season ticket sales, media hype and attention.
We know the end result.
Substance and function over style and form.
I knew someone would bring this clown up after I posted that. Manziel was a total reach and everyone knew it. Manziel was typical Haslam meddling with the team.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
The draft is about improving at positions of need. Ward and Sanders immediately improve the position of need.
I get it if people don't think they're worth it at the pick number.
In the end I don't trust out FO to make the right choice.
Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
You are right, Sanders and Ward are the consensus top 2 QBs in this draft.
This is considered a bad QB draft.
Your way of thinking is how QBs like Anthony Richardson, Zach Wilson and Mitch Trubisky end up as top 5 picks.
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I'll take entertaining football over the crap we've been dealing with for 20+ years. This year was unwatchable for the most part.
I'd say my issue, with anything of what youre saying, is that amount of assumption made. Winston was an all-american and national champion. Zappe' broke D-1 passing records as a Topper, DTR was an all conference QB twice.
There is no guarantee that the position is immediately improved (with Sanders I believe it is, even though I'd prefer he sit half a season) and that it will be "entertaining" when a rookie starts. Throwing a rookie out who may not be ready to start and negatively affecting their development is hardly an entertainment. And Ward still needs some serious work on this mechanics before he's ready to be a full-time *consistent* NFL passer.
And we'll be the laughing stock once again.
No, losing games and making questionable NFL apples to apples decisions makes you a laughing stock. Draft strategy, especially when you say "we don't have him evaluated as high on our board" and your scouting pans out means, as the kids say "you keep receipts". The 2019 draft is another great example.
I'd suggest this, to the both of you. Look at the data the last 20 years on the amount of drafts that produced high level starters in the 1st round compared to multiple high-level busts. It's pretty telling. No, you don't stick your head in the sand. You wait until the opportune time, when you've identified "your guy" and then you move and invest the draft capital. That's, that's all. I think we understand each other.
I'd say my issue, with anything of what your saying, is that amount of assumption made. Winston was an all-american and national champion. Zappe' broke D-1 passing records as a Topper, DTR was an all conference QB twice.
There is no guarantee that the position is immediately improved (with Sanders I believe it is, even though I'd prefer he sit half a season) and that it will be "entertaining" when a rookie starts. Throwing a rookie out who may not be ready to start and negatively affecting their development is hardly an entertainment. And Ward still needs some serious work on this mechanics before he's ready to be a full-time *consistent* NFL passer.
No, losing games and making questionable NFL apples to apples decisions makes you a laughing stock. Draft strategy, especially when you say "we don't have him evaluated as high on our board" and your scouting pans out means, as the kids say "you keep receipts". The 2019 draft is another great example.
I'd suggest this, to the both of you. Look at the data the last 20 years on the amount of drafts that produced high level starters in the 1st round compared to multiple high-level busts. It's pretty telling. No, you don't stick your head in the sand. You wait until the opportune time, when you've identified "your guy" and then you move and invest the draft capital. That's, that's all. I think we understand each other.
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
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Ward and Sanders are consensus top 2 QB picks - Manziel was not. I'm not sure how you don't see either of these 2 QBs are substance over form.
You are right, Sanders and Ward are the consensus top 2 QBs in this draft.
This is considered a bad QB draft.
Your way of thinking is how QBs like Anthony Richardson, Zach Wilson and Mitch Trubisky end up as top 5 picks.
You are right, Sanders and Ward are the consensus top 2 QBs in this draft.
This is considered a bad QB draft.
Your way of thinking is how QBs like Anthony Richardson, Zach Wilson and Mitch Trubisky end up as top 5 picks.
Any draft is a crap shoot my guy. Look at my post above and you'll see the percentages of starting QBs and where they were drafted. You can make the argument for any position.
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You are right, Sanders and Ward are the consensus top 2 QBs in this draft.
This is considered a bad QB draft.
Your way of thinking is how QBs like Anthony Richardson, Zach Wilson and Mitch Trubisky end up as top 5 picks.
Any draft is a crap shoot my guy. Look at my post above and you'll see the percentages of starting QBs and where they were drafted. You can make the argument for any position.
Any draft is a crap shoot my guy. Look at my post above and you'll see the percentages of starting QBs and where they were drafted. You can make the argument for any position.
Absolutely.
But I'll argue that no position, and its not even close, gets over-drafted like QB. I get it, QB is the most important position in sports, but forcing the issue isn't helping the percentages, is it?
Now, like I said before, if you or anyone else actually looks at video and reads up on Cam Ward and comes to the conclusion that he is a top-notch QB prospect, then knock yourself out and scream from the mountaintop that the Browns should draft him. I would.
But I don't, as of now. As of today, I feel like he'd be a helluva reach. I'm not super high on Sanders either (on the field) and his potential off the field issues makes me not even consider him. If we end up with the #1 spot, I'd trade out.
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Any draft is a crap shoot my guy. Look at my post above and you'll see the percentages of starting QBs and where they were drafted. You can make the argument for any position.
Absolutely.
But I'll argue that no position, and its not even close, gets over-drafted like QB. I get it, QB is the most important position in sports, but forcing the issue isn't helping the percentages, is it?
Now, like I said before, if you or anyone else actually looks at video and reads up on Cam Ward and comes to the conclusion that he is a top-notch QB prospect, then knock yourself out and scream from the mountaintop that the Browns should draft him. I would.
But I don't, as of now. As of today, I feel like he'd be a helluva reach. I'm not super high on Sanders either (on the field) and his potential off the field issues makes me not even consider him. If we end up with the #1 spot, I'd trade out.
Absolutely.
But I'll argue that no position, and its not even close, gets over-drafted like QB. I get it, QB is the most important position in sports, but forcing the issue isn't helping the percentages, is it?
Now, like I said before, if you or anyone else actually looks at video and reads up on Cam Ward and comes to the conclusion that he is a top-notch QB prospect, then knock yourself out and scream from the mountaintop that the Browns should draft him. I would.
But I don't, as of now. As of today, I feel like he'd be a helluva reach. I'm not super high on Sanders either (on the field) and his potential off the field issues makes me not even consider him. If we end up with the #1 spot, I'd trade out.
Agree with what you said as well. Guess it depends on situation we have so many needs at this point that if the price was right I can agree with trading out and picking a prospect QB. There seems to be a lot of prospect QBs that will be available later. But I don't count on this FO making the right choice in any matter.
Garrett has stated if we're rebuilding he wants out. I think it's clear we're going to be in re-build mode no matter what. However, I'm curious as to what would be considered better from his perspective. Bring in a re-tread like Cousins or drafting a QB with first pick.
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I'd say my issue, with anything of what your saying, is that amount of assumption made. Winston was an all-american and national champion. Zappe' broke D-1 passing records as a Topper, DTR was an all conference QB twice.
There is no guarantee that the position is immediately improved (with Sanders I believe it is, even though I'd prefer he sit half a season) and that it will be "entertaining" when a rookie starts. Throwing a rookie out who may not be ready to start and negatively affecting their development is hardly an entertainment. And Ward still needs some serious work on this mechanics before he's ready to be a full-time *consistent* NFL passer.
No, losing games and making questionable NFL apples to apples decisions makes you a laughing stock. Draft strategy, especially when you say "we don't have him evaluated as high on our board" and your scouting pans out means, as the kids say "you keep receipts". The 2019 draft is another great example.
I'd suggest this, to the both of you. Look at the data the last 20 years on the amount of drafts that produced high level starters in the 1st round compared to multiple high-level busts. It's pretty telling. No, you don't stick your head in the sand. You wait until the opportune time, when you've identified "your guy" and then you move and invest the draft capital. That's, that's all. I think we understand each other.
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
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Zappe was no not even spoken of as a top QB pick. He was chosen in the 4th round. DTR- again not considered a higher draft prospect.
Here's the data for you: https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/positions/qb
2024 draft: 5 QBs starting from 1st round
2023 draft: 3 QBs starting: Young, Stroud, Richardson. Levis was high 2nd rounder
2022 only had 1 first - Pickett.
2021: kinda of a dud - Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, Justin Fields (could be a starter on our team), Mac Jones
2020: Burrow, Tua, Love, Hurts (2nd round)
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
Relevant data comparisons require, at bare minimum, 10 years. I've gone back 20...
And in this list, subtracting rookies because you want to have a clear view of whom more comes into play with a season of data, you have 7/14 picks that were severely over-drafted. Wilson, Lance, Fields, Jones, Pickett, Richardson, Levis. Young might make it 8/14 depending on how you weigh is career in Carolina so far.
QB is the most disgustingly over-drafted position in the sport because of that desperation. I'm taking a pragmatic and nuanced approach that acknowledges said over-draft mentality. If the QB isn't the 'clear-cut' guy, then it's an avoid.
Agree with a lot of what you say. We'll just see how it all pans out.
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Another thing that is disgusting - the amount of all 22 on Shadeur vs about any other QB.
I'm trying to get through, at minimum, 6-8 games of each. Sanders was easy to dig up. Cam? Not so much.
For anyone wanting to jump in and talk some football, possibly follow along with my eval while I take a break from writing about the Browns season, you're more than welcomed too.
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