Losing Confidence in this FO at Warped Speed
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How do we fix the Oline before the 2026 season?
I am assuming a mass exodus (4 starters). I wouldn’t be surprised if there were departures before the trade deadline. We have draft capital but I wouldn’t expect 4 plug and play rookies on the Oline let alone want that. The reserves for the most part look like reserves. We have the cap albatross that is Deshaun Watson. Assume Joel retires, do you convince Pocic or Teller to stay just to have some continuity?
Assume Joel retires, do you convince Pocic or Teller to stay just to have some continuity?
Personally, I think they all need upgrading. But you can only accomplish so much in one year. Zinter wasn't active for the game. Addition by subtraction.
Berry, Stef & team are not good at drafting OL. Can we give Joe Thomas a shot at drafting OLinemen? He's got expertise...and he can't do any worse.
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...copied from another thread: a poster named jrb and a bunch of numbers said it
The small takeaway is this rookie class is already showing promising things. Judkins made the run game of what appears to be a well below average OL markedly better, and Sampson is showing good things especially as a pass catcher. Fannin obviously showing some pros and Graham quietly had a great game yesterday too.
...many of us thought that we had a pretty good draft last April. Graham, Schwesinger, Judkins, Fannin, Samson, all contributed...even Gabriel threw a TD (of course nobody was really trying at that point in the game...still though, it was a good pass).
Now, do we need OL, DB & WR? Yes. So who in that group of draftees do you want to give back for DB, WR or OLinemen? And ya can't say Gabriel.
At WR, the idea was that Tillman & Thrash were to forces this year. And the year is only 2 games old, so it's unfair to call them failures at this point...but it's not currently trending into them becoming superstars. - And Judy was allegator arms when going over the middle. He doesn't want to get hurt. He showed that with a BIG & KEY drop against the Bengals.
At 1 point the annoying commentator (Tucker)
Yeah, glad it's not just me that isn't thrilled by him.
...copied from another thread: a poster named jrb and a bunch of numbers said it
The small takeaway is this rookie class is already showing promising things. Judkins made the run game of what appears to be a well below average OL markedly better, and Sampson is showing good things especially as a pass catcher. Fannin obviously showing some pros and Graham quietly had a great game yesterday too.
...many of us thought that we had a pretty good draft last April. Graham, Schwesinger, Judkins, Fannin, Samson, all contributed...even Gabriel threw a TD (of course nobody was really trying at that point in the game...still though, it was a good pass).
Now, do we need OL, DB & WR? Yes. So who in that group of draftees do you want to give back for DB, WR or OLinemen? And ya can't say Gabriel.
At WR, the idea was that Tillman & Thrash were to forces this year. And the year is only 2 games old, so it's unfair to call them failures at this point...but it's not currently trending into them becoming superstars. - And Judy was allegator arms when going over the middle. He doesn't want to get hurt. He showed that with a BIG & KEY drop against the Bengals.
Yeah, glad it's not just me that isn't thrilled by him.
Thanks Orion! That was GREAT - I needed that. It does seem like one of the best rookie classes we've had in quite some time. I'd just like them to look at Offensive Tackle more than a this guy will have to do for now. We also need more depth in the secondary. Last but not least, 1 WR with a combo of speed and good hands could change/tilt the dynamics in favor of our 2nd, 3rd WRs in the mix.
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...copied from another thread: a poster named jrb and a bunch of numbers said it
The small takeaway is this rookie class is already showing promising things. Judkins made the run game of what appears to be a well below average OL markedly better, and Sampson is showing good things especially as a pass catcher. Fannin obviously showing some pros and Graham quietly had a great game yesterday too.
...many of us thought that we had a pretty good draft last April. Graham, Schwesinger, Judkins, Fannin, Samson, all contributed...even Gabriel threw a TD (of course nobody was really trying at that point in the game...still though, it was a good pass).
Now, do we need OL, DB & WR? Yes. So who in that group of draftees do you want to give back for DB, WR or OLinemen? And ya can't say Gabriel.
At WR, the idea was that Tillman & Thrash were to forces this year. And the year is only 2 games old, so it's unfair to call them failures at this point...but it's not currently trending into them becoming superstars. - And Judy was allegator arms when going over the middle. He doesn't want to get hurt. He showed that with a BIG & KEY drop against the Bengals.
Yeah, glad it's not just me that isn't thrilled by him.
Thanks Orion! That was GREAT - I needed that. It does seem like one of the best rookie classes we've had in quite some time. I'd just like them to look at Offensive Tackle more than a this guy will have to do for now. We also need more depth in the secondary. Last but not least, 1 WR with a combo of speed and good hands could change/tilt the dynamics in favor of our 2nd, 3rd WRs in the mix.
I'd just like them to look at Offensive Tackle
I think we all expected an OLineman selected this past April. As well as a WR & DB. It could be that they were expecting that the new OL Coach would have an impact...and that Zinter would take a step forward in his play. And they did bring in OL the day after the draft. I feel certain that it was on their list of needs during the draft and will be for the next draft...I just ask that they get Joe Thomas to research the OL recruits in order to have a fighting chance to find a good one, because they're just no good at picking offensive fat-asses.
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I'd just like them to look at Offensive Tackle
I think we all expected an OLineman selected this past April. As well as a WR & DB. It could be that they were expecting that the new OL Coach would have an impact...and that Zinter would take a step forward in his play. And they did bring in OL the day after the draft. I feel certain that it was on their list of needs during the draft and will be for the next draft...I just ask that they get Joe Thomas to research the OL recruits in order to have a fighting chance to find a good one, because they're just no good at picking offensive fat-asses.
I think we all expected an OLineman selected this past April. As well as a WR & DB. It could be that they were expecting that the new OL Coach would have an impact...and that Zinter would take a step forward in his play. And they did bring in OL the day after the draft. I feel certain that it was on their list of needs during the draft and will be for the next draft...I just ask that they get Joe Thomas to research the OL recruits in order to have a fighting chance to find a good one, because they're just no good at picking offensive fat-asses.
So far this oline looks like ass!
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Good news Monday!!
We have the same record as the Chiefs
Some other good news. Aside from Jack Conklins broken pinky toe I can’t recall a time where we’ve been this healthy after two weeks
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I can’t recall a time where we’ve been this healthy after two weeks
Yeah, but we went into the season without JOK or Emerson...two big losses. At least we knew about JOK before the draft.
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Chubb scores the go ahead 4th quarter TD and Baker leads a game winning drive.
Fuck football. fuck the nfl. fuck jimmy. fuck dee. fuck stefanski. fuck berry.
God hates Cleveland.
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Probably my favorite post I've read from you @flugel.
It's frustrating talking drafting, The Draft and draft picks 50 weeks a year, but here we are.
I think coming out of last season, we all kind of expected a soft rebuild.
What's it going to take for the Browns to not go full blown rebuild? It feels like that's direction we're heading, and really because OL play is just so disappointing.
But, take solace because the same group that is in their 12th season of not being able to figure it out stands at the precipice (of figuring it out?).
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I must admit that the performance of 2 Browns castoffs today, Chubb and Mayfield, has certainly increased my confidence on the FO's judgement
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I must admit that the performance of 2 Browns castoffs today, Chubb and Mayfield, has certainly increased my confidence on the FO's judgement
I must admit that the performance of 2 Browns castoffs today, Chubb and Mayfield, has certainly increased my confidence on the FO's judgement
Pettier in sarcastic pink.??
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Chubb scores the go ahead 4th quarter TD and Baker leads a game winning drive.
Fuck football. fuck the nfl. fuck jimmy. fuck dee. fuck stefanski. fuck berry.
God hates Cleveland.
Chubb scores the go ahead 4th quarter TD and Baker leads a game winning drive.
Fuck football. fuck the nfl. fuck jimmy. fuck dee. fuck stefanski. fuck berry.
God hates Cleveland.
And fuck Depodesta. Can't forget him.
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Probably my favorite post I've read from you @flugel.
It's frustrating talking drafting, The Draft and draft picks 50 weeks a year, but here we are.
I think coming out of last season, we all kind of expected a soft rebuild.
What's it going to take for the Browns to not go full blown rebuild? It feels like that's direction we're heading, and really because OL play is just so disappointing.
But, take solace because the same group that is in their 12th season of not being able to figure it out stands at the precipice (of figuring it out?).
Probably my favorite post I've read from you @flugel.
It's frustrating talking drafting, The Draft and draft picks 50 weeks a year, but here we are.
I think coming out of last season, we all kind of expected a soft rebuild.
What's it going to take for the Browns to not go full blown rebuild? It feels like that's direction we're heading, and really because OL play is just so disappointing.
But, take solace because the same group that is in their 12th season of not being able to figure it out stands at the precipice (of figuring it out?).
Thanks AP1! I just had to uncork some bottled up blow hard so I appreciated you reading it and your feedback.
When I hear all they gotta do is get rid of Stefanski - it's like the people announcing it all the time think we have Philly's Owner Jeffrey Lurie & GM Howie Roseman here doing the firing and hiring.
Sometimes I still feel like the 22 year old kid that was back in college in 1986 when the Browns had a 12-4 record with Bernie Kosar at QB and Lindy Infante at OC with homefield advantage earned throughout the playoffs. The Browns didn't lose that game because of "The Drive" - it was the play (kickoff) right before the drive where all Cleveland had to was recover the loose ball in their hand instead of trying to pick-it-up and run it in. They would have had the ball at Denver's 2 yard line with the lead they would have never surrendered while Denver would have had to use up all their time outs, etc. I said all that to say that's how close they came to a Super Bowl and I was only 22. Today, I'm 61 and it feels like this team is a million miles away. Let's face it I'm just not smart enough to give up on the Browns and our family tradition that embraced them. I probably needed a diaper change when they were winning the NFL Title Game in 64 - you know I like to cause trouble (not really - I'm just good at it for some reason)...
I DO appreciate the reminders in his thread that there is a good rookie class in tact; but we also have to factor in THIS Owner & FO went all in on Watson to the extent of how many important draft picks and draft volumes they surrendered to do that. When we get right down to it - we're looking at an OL that's played like it's exhausted with a 40 year old QB whose processor looked like it had narcolepsy last Sunday. Our #1 WR isn't getting separation against starters. So who's on deck? It only makes sense it's Micah Parsons and the Green Bay Defense. What could possibly go wrong???
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Probably my favorite post I've read from you @flugel.
It's frustrating talking drafting, The Draft and draft picks 50 weeks a year, but here we are.
I think coming out of last season, we all kind of expected a soft rebuild.
What's it going to take for the Browns to not go full blown rebuild? It feels like that's direction we're heading, and really because OL play is just so disappointing.
But, take solace because the same group that is in their 12th season of not being able to figure it out stands at the precipice (of figuring it out?).
Thanks AP1! I just had to uncork some bottled up blow hard so I appreciated you reading it and your feedback.
When I hear all they gotta do is get rid of Stefanski - it's like the people announcing it all the time think we have Philly's Owner Jeffrey Lurie & GM Howie Roseman here doing the firing and hiring.
Sometimes I still feel like the 22 year old kid that was back in college in 1986 when the Browns had a 12-4 record with Bernie Kosar at QB and Lindy Infante at OC with homefield advantage earned throughout the playoffs. The Browns didn't lose that game because of "The Drive" - it was the play (kickoff) right before the drive where all Cleveland had to was recover the loose ball in their hand instead of trying to pick-it-up and run it in. They would have had the ball at Denver's 2 yard line with the lead they would have never surrendered while Denver would have had to use up all their time outs, etc. I said all that to say that's how close they came to a Super Bowl and I was only 22. Today, I'm 61 and it feels like this team is a million miles away. Let's face it I'm just not smart enough to give up on the Browns and our family tradition that embraced them. I probably needed a diaper change when they were winning the NFL Title Game in 64 - you know I like to cause trouble (not really - I'm just good at it for some reason)...
I DO appreciate the reminders in his thread that there is a good rookie class in tact; but we also have to factor in THIS Owner & FO went all in on Watson to the extent of how many important draft picks and draft volumes they surrendered to do that. When we get right down to it - we're looking at an OL that's played like it's exhausted with a 40 year old QB whose processor looked like it had narcolepsy last Sunday. Our #1 WR isn't getting separation against starters. So who's on deck? It only makes sense it's Micah Parsons and the Green Bay Defense. What could possibly go wrong???
What could possibly go wrong???
One the other side..................................what could possibly go right?....................MG continues his quest for 25 sacks in a season. He's on track.
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Chubb scores the go ahead 4th quarter TD and Baker leads a game winning drive.
Fuck football. fuck the nfl. fuck jimmy. fuck dee. fuck stefanski. fuck berry.
God hates Cleveland.
And fuck Depodesta. Can't forget him.
And fuck Depodesta. Can't forget him.
Many of us have been yelling this for years. It's the #1 reason why I quit my season tickets after 45 years.
Jimmy Haslam, please axe this guy before next year's draft, especially if you believe AB & Stefanski are the answer.
I realize you can't rebuild in one draft, but to not draft any O linemen in 2025 is as stupid as any moves they've made in 12 years, right up there with the OBJ signing and Manziel draft pick.
Karlis Missed -
Worth mentioning but When we were discarding Dline depth this preseason we should have turned the trade or trades into a slot corner rather than trusting in Harden or Mitchell. We’ve had no success with third day lottery picks. A player would have been a nice.
We can harp on the offensive line all day but we’ve seen two defenses play aggressively downhill against us each Sunday. We have a combined Jimmy and Joe problem but the Xs and Os could be better too.
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And fuck Depodesta. Can't forget him.
Many of us have been yelling this for years. It's the #1 reason why I quit my season tickets after 45 years.
Jimmy Haslam, please axe this guy before next year's draft, especially if you believe AB & Stefanski are the answer.
I realize you can't rebuild in one draft, but to not draft any O linemen in 2025 is as stupid as any moves they've made in 12 years, right up there with the OBJ signing and Manziel draft pick.
I realize you can't rebuild in one draft, but to not draft any O linemen in 2025 is as stupid as any moves they've made
So I will ask you: Who of these picks would you give back for an OLineman? Graham, Schwesinger, Judkins, Fannin, Sampson
- it's frustrating, I understand -
BEING A BROWNS FAN IS A TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH YOU CAN TAKE -
And fuck Depodesta. Can't forget him.
Many of us have been yelling this for years. It's the #1 reason why I quit my season tickets after 45 years.
Jimmy Haslam, please axe this guy before next year's draft, especially if you believe AB & Stefanski are the answer.
I realize you can't rebuild in one draft, but to not draft any O linemen in 2025 is as stupid as any moves they've made in 12 years, right up there with the OBJ signing and Manziel draft pick.
Many of us have been yelling this for years. It's the #1 reason why I quit my season tickets after 45 years.
Jimmy Haslam, please axe this guy before next year's draft, especially if you believe AB & Stefanski are the answer.
I realize you can't rebuild in one draft, but to not draft any O linemen in 2025 is as stupid as any moves they've made in 12 years, right up there with the OBJ signing and Manziel draft pick.
Focusing on this regime…Jed Wills 10th overall pick would be in his prime right now.
Could have been the offensive line help at the most important position but he’s off the roster and also prompted an overpay in signing Jack Conklin.
One mistake after another.
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So I will ask you: Who of these picks would you give back for an OLineman? Graham, Schwesinger, Judkins, Fannin, Sampson
- it's frustrating, I understand -
Don't do that to me damnit?Those 5 are fine so far, knock on wood.
I think both RBs are going to be good fits, but drafting 2 RBs & 2 QBs was a bit mystifying to me.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I'm not as into the draft as many on this board, especially the seemingly never ending draft threads in October.
Maybe step 1 was get (potential) playmakers. Step 2 may be more linemen, the problem is those guys in charge might get canned ( depends on Haslam's patience ultimately). Of course, the endless QB search is probably going to continue, & the chances the Browns get " their guy" is probably 50% or less ( we are due for some luck, but I'm not into losing 10-11-12-13 games to get there). If they lose 14 or more I don't know how any of these guys survive it ( coach, front office).
Karlis Missed -
Jerry isn't a #1 on the perimeter unless you get him off the LoS. He's being used both right and wrong.
Bond has elite short area quickness, but he isn't going to smoke anyone on the long ball unless he wins immediately at the line.
You don't have any one dominant receiving threat to help dictate defensive structures or win 1 on 1 at every level of the field. That also means the running game, including the function of the OL,just isn't good enough to force + box counts and aggressive run fits from 2nd and 3rd level defenders. So when the offense tries to push the ball downfield, it's minimal at best.
Flacco also isn't playing well. He's inconsistently feeling pressure, anticipating pressure that doesn't arrive, either getting to reads late or leaving them too quickly.
Here's the funny part - the fans are getting what they wanted.
Wanted more motion -
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Wanted Flacco back -
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Infusion of young skill talent -
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LB'er to be addressed -
️ (early returns on Carson are promising)
The whole rookie class is promising. But right now the engine that drives the offense, the running game, isn't working. Both the OL and RBs aren't getting it done. The IOL got old fast, the OT spot is a turnstile of injury.
I have hope QJ can help alleviate some things, but he isn't a cure-all like Adrian Peterson.
The pass pro has also been shakey at times, mostly on the edges straight up and then communication on slants and twists. This doesnt help an aging vet at QB who wasnt an elite processor to begin with and needs time to push the ball vertically without being a turnover risk by forcing things.
These are personnel issues a few years in the making. Both from questionable results of draft picks along with losing so much draft capital from the Watson trade. The biggest reason I would have vetoed it were I Jimmy Haslam (plus the fully guaranteed contract. Just idiocy and hubris at the highest level)
We have role players, but the offense has nothing to hang their hat on to establish identity. And it directly stems from a personnel deficiency at OL and QB.
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