For the haters
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Sorry Steve hindsight is always 20\20. FWIW, Baker tried to play hero ball with a bum wing, and he virtually tanked that season because of it. Fact.
Were the Browns wrong to dump him? Guess Carolina thought the same. LA didn't need his services either. Wound up at the Last Chance Saloon in Tampa Bay and a few years after the fact regained his #1 overall draft pick playing ability. So tell me Steve should the Browns have waited another three years for Mayfield to grow up? Many have said he needed to find some humility first.
Yeah Watson- worst trade in the history of the NFL shocking more haven't been fired because of it. With Depodesta leaving, I'm going to finger him as the guilty party, with a close second to Haslam for OK-ing that dumb of a trade.
Agree with almost all of this.
But has Baker shown #1 overall value/ability, especially with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in that same draft?
Why would Depodesta be who you think is the guilty party for the Watson trade?
Agree with almost all of this.
But has Baker shown #1 overall value/ability, especially with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in that same draft?
Why would Depodesta be who you think is the guilty party for the Watson trade?
Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
By shipping him off to Detroit as if he was being sent to Siberia.
Those winters can be Siberia-esque.
I think it's a rare win-win trade. The Rams got a fringe HoF QB and a Superbowl. The Lions got a top 15 QB and a ton of draft capital.
But we've seen in LA, and had glimpses in DET, that Goff can struggled badly, even with elite talent around him. And the Lions have elite talent. So the Rams assessment that he did and may continue to hold them back, looks more vindicate with time.
That said, I'm happy he's in DET and I pull for my fellow NFC rust belt brothers.
I think it's a rare win-win trade. The Rams got a fringe HoF
Stafford didn't bring the Lions to any superbowls. They've each brought the Rams to superbowls. But since the Stafford superbowl the Rams haven't done a whole lot.
The worst part of the Rams trading for the veteran QB and going on to win the superbowl was that it showed the Haslam Gang a path to a superbowl. Thus...Watson...
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I think it's a rare win-win trade. The Rams got a fringe HoF
Stafford didn't bring the Lions to any superbowls. They've each brought the Rams to superbowls. But since the Stafford superbowl the Rams haven't done a whole lot.
The worst part of the Rams trading for the veteran QB and going on to win the superbowl was that it showed the Haslam Gang a path to a superbowl. Thus...Watson...
They've each brought the Rams to superbowls.
Each brought the Rams to the Superbowl.
Only one lead the Rams to the Superbowl win though.
But since the Stafford superbowl the Rams haven't done a whole lot.
A team that mortgaged the farm for said Superbowl. On top battling injuries and losing an aging veteran core have been some of the primary drivers behind that. They sacrificed long term draft capital for a short term gain (Superbowl)
The results have been a bit better than I think you're leading on. They had a losing record in 2022 then immediately jumped back into the playoffs the last two seasons. The biggest reason is that they had some pick draft hits in the middle and late rounders that worked out to surround Stafford with. So that multi-year rebuild never really ended up happening.
The worst part of the Rams trading for the veteran QB and going on to win the superbowl was that it showed the Haslam Gang a path to a superbowl. Thus...Watson...
Sadly, yes. Wasn't just the Brownies though. Denver fell for that same trap with Russell Wilson.
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I wish our Browns had this kind of team spirit, and energy.
not with steboringski as head coach.
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...but why would you do that for a player that plays in another conference?
I mean, I clicked the thread because your name was on it and you never post anymore.
Thanks for noticing Orion... I miss some of you guys more than others... It's the neurotic others that have driven me away. Here's a little follow up. I just don't get the continuing Baker love from some posters. I'm not into the coulda, shoulda- but didn't. Baker hasn't played for the Browns in years. That he's playing well now for Tampa Bay- great. MHO the Mayfield lovers who STILL can't let it go are swallowing a huge mouthful of sour grapes, and we have NO idea how it would have turned out if we somehow had stuck with him.
I have more interest now in how Goff is doing with the Lions than Baker is doing with the Bucs.
And to our resident Josh Allen pumper... How many of Allen's games at Wyoming did you actually watch? Hmmm? If it was less than six, shut your pie hole. Blind squirrels find acorns once in a while. Allen couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at 20 yards 75% of the time back then. FWIW, I could equally have been a pansy and said damn... We sure as shit should have drafted Pat Mahomes- who had EXACTLY the same questions coming out of college as Allen. ?
Well, back to bike riding and ignoring the crap that goes on here.
Thanks for noticing Orion... I miss some of you guys more than others... It's the neurotic others that have driven me away. Here's a little follow up. I just don't get the continuing Baker love from some posters. I'm not into the coulda, shoulda- but didn't. Baker hasn't played for the Browns in years. That he's playing well now for Tampa Bay- great. MHO the Mayfield lovers who STILL can't let it go are swallowing a huge mouthful of sour grapes, and we have NO idea how it would have turned out if we somehow had stuck with him.
I have more interest now in how Goff is doing with the Lions than Baker is doing with the Bucs.
And to our resident Josh Allen pumper... How many of Allen's games at Wyoming did you actually watch? Hmmm? If it was less than six, shut your pie hole. Blind squirrels find acorns once in a while. Allen couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at 20 yards 75% of the time back then. FWIW, I could equally have been a pansy and said damn... We sure as shit should have drafted Pat Mahomes- who had EXACTLY the same questions coming out of college as Allen. ?
Well, back to bike riding and ignoring the crap that goes on here.
Good to see ya Larry! Pop back in any time. We'll still be hearing about Josh Allen when you your return...
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Thanks for noticing Orion... I miss some of you guys more than others... It's the neurotic others that have driven me away. Here's a little follow up. I just don't get the continuing Baker love from some posters. I'm not into the coulda, shoulda- but didn't. Baker hasn't played for the Browns in years. That he's playing well now for Tampa Bay- great. MHO the Mayfield lovers who STILL can't let it go are swallowing a huge mouthful of sour grapes, and we have NO idea how it would have turned out if we somehow had stuck with him.
I have more interest now in how Goff is doing with the Lions than Baker is doing with the Bucs.
And to our resident Josh Allen pumper... How many of Allen's games at Wyoming did you actually watch? Hmmm? If it was less than six, shut your pie hole. Blind squirrels find acorns once in a while. Allen couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at 20 yards 75% of the time back then. FWIW, I could equally have been a pansy and said damn... We sure as shit should have drafted Pat Mahomes- who had EXACTLY the same questions coming out of college as Allen. ?
Well, back to bike riding and ignoring the crap that goes on here.
Good to see ya Larry! Pop back in any time. We'll still be hearing about Josh Allen when you your return...
Good to see ya Larry! Pop back in any time. We'll still be hearing about Josh Allen when you your return...
And Baker, of course.
FoR tHe HaTeRs!
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I wish our Browns had this kind of team spirit, and energy.
not with steboringski as head coach.
I wish our Browns had this kind of team spirit, and energy.
not with steboringski as head coach.
Yeah, it's been tough watching no energy or team spirit whatsoever from Schwesinger, Garrett, Graham, Ward, Delpit, Fannin, Njoku, Judkins, Teller, Bitonio and others. ?
In fairness to your point - the offense is stale with Stefanski's playbook; but how much can you do without pass protection from the 2 OTs despite changing who calls the plays now?
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I have more interest now in how Goff is doing with the Lions
I always liked Goff. I felt badly for him for what the Rams did to him...but they got their super bowl win. My 2nd favorite team (distant 2nd) has always been Roman Gabriel and the Rams (and now Stafford and co.)...but I've been pulling for the Lions and Goff to do well since he was discarded to the Lions.
My 2nd favorite team (distant 2nd) has always been Roman Gabriel and the Rams
Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
Two things that will define you: Your determination when you have nothing. Your attitude when you have everything. - Mike McCartney -
Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
My favorite RB was Leroy Kelly. Favorite OL was obviously Joe Thomas. QB = Kosar. CB Dixon. LB - Clay Mathews (and Schwesinger reminds me of him bigtime). Although, when I was a kid, Galen Fiss was an outstanding lb favorite...
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Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
Yes! Gabe would toss the ball to Jack Snow and Lance Rentzel.
BTW, Jim Brown, Y.A. Tittle, Vince Lombardi, Andy Robustelli, Frank “Bruiser” Kinard, Norm Van Brocklin, and Bill Hewitt were inducted into the HOF that day.
Even though I was just a kid in 1971, that day at the HOF stuck in my memory bank for the rest of my life.
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Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
I'm so damn old I remember Huarte to Snow when they were at Notre Dame. Sad that Snow died at age 62.
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I'm so damn old I remember Huarte to Snow when they were are Notre Dame. Sad that Snow died at age 62.
Every day is a gift my man!
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Roman Gabriel is my all time favorite player. I met him during the HOF festivities as a kid, and I still has some of his football cards.
Wow! I remember watching him as a little kid throwing to Jack Snow...
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Agree with almost all of this.
But has Baker shown #1 overall value/ability, especially with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in that same draft?
Why would Depodesta be who you think is the guilty party for the Watson trade?
Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
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Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Hell, Mac Jones has shown something this year too.
Then again, the system he plays in seems to be very QB friendly. Doesn't take a big-time talent to make Kyle Shanahan's system go.
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Agree with almost all of this.
But has Baker shown #1 overall value/ability, especially with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in that same draft?
Why would Depodesta be who you think is the guilty party for the Watson trade?
I'll answer your last question first. regarding Depodesta... We'll never know for sure how much influence Paul had regarding trades or drafting. So if you want to say the trade for Watson was a collective organizational FUBAR, you won't get any disagreement from me.
Regarding the 2025 edition of Baker... OK, if you twist my arm, I'm going to have to say TO DATE Allen and Jackson were better values in that draft. LOL Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen were not.
Now a little back story on myself... If you notice my sig line- one of me hobbies was mountaineering (now retired). To tout my own horn (a little bit) I've climbed the three highest peaks in Wyoming- Gannet Peak, The Grand Teton, and Fremont Peak. So I have a soft spot in my heart for the state. I've visited the University of Wyoming campus in Laramie at least three times. So I had more than a passing interest in that wunderkid Josh Allen when he played there. He was a very inaccurate cannon armed kid at the time. Reports were he could toss it 90+ yards in the air (unconfirmed). My feeling was a hard pass at the time.
Ah, Lamar Jackson... Another (lucky for the Ravens) fluke. At the combine, teams wanted Jackson to try out for wide receiver, and run a 40 (he refused). I said at the time he was essentially a running back who incindentally was able to pass the ball. His running ability was\is unquestioned, and he's now #1 with a bullet having amassed the most rushing yards by a quarterback in the history of the NFL. His passing ability was another story entirely. BUT thanks to his incredible athletic ability (and some mighty good coaching I might add) he's turned into a pretty good quarterback besides.
I'll answer your last question first. regarding Depodesta... We'll never know for sure how much influence Paul had regarding trades or drafting. So if you want to say the trade for Watson was a collective organizational FUBAR, you won't get any disagreement from me.
Regarding the 2025 edition of Baker... OK, if you twist my arm, I'm going to have to say TO DATE Allen and Jackson were better values in that draft. LOL Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen were not.
Now a little back story on myself... If you notice my sig line- one of me hobbies was mountaineering (now retired). To tout my own horn (a little bit) I've climbed the three highest peaks in Wyoming- Gannet Peak, The Grand Teton, and Fremont Peak. So I have a soft spot in my heart for the state. I've visited the University of Wyoming campus in Laramie at least three times. So I had more than a passing interest in that wunderkid Josh Allen when he played there. He was a very inaccurate cannon armed kid at the time. Reports were he could toss it 90+ yards in the air (unconfirmed). My feeling was a hard pass at the time.
Ah, Lamar Jackson... Another (lucky for the Ravens) fluke. At the combine, teams wanted Jackson to try out for wide receiver, and run a 40 (he refused). I said at the time he was essentially a running back who incindentally was able to pass the ball. His running ability was\is unquestioned, and he's now #1 with a bullet having amassed the most rushing yards by a quarterback in the history of the NFL. His passing ability was another story entirely. BUT thanks to his incredible athletic ability (and some mighty good coaching I might add) he's turned into a pretty good quarterback besides.
I fall under the collective FUBAR camp. Though more to the it was an ownership decision decision to pull the trigger on the Watson trade. I find it to be more likely that each area provided their inputs for having the most info to make the decision. I also find it more likely that when the price to aquire Watson became what it did, the collective inputs were that it was too high. But Haslam was all in regardless the price/risk.
I appreciate your comment on Depodesta. The reality is, we (those not working in Berea) have no idea what his roll, and the organization under him truly have, or the amount of influence he/they have. I am not in favor of the boogeyman approach with him and analytics.
To Allen, that is ultimately some people in the Bills org putting their neck out there that the raw talent could be harnessed and developed.
Jackson, I never understood those that said he needed to change position. He showed in college he could pass the rock from the pocket. But his athleticism certainly meant he was never going to be a pocket passer in the traditional sense. To me he showed the potential to be what was envisioned with Vick, and then RG3. I think some some extent what happened to/with RG3.
Back to Baker, and really the entire "franchise" QB minicour, it gets thrown around too much for my taste. Baker has certainly developed in to a legit NFL starting QB. That in and of its self actually is a high bar achievement. There really are only about 20 guys who meet that level in the NFL. I reserve the "franchise" label to those which are truly the best of the best. The guys that regardless of what the situation around them is, they look the part on Sundays. In the NFL, there is usually maybe 5 guys which fit that label at any given time. As well as being guys you want to be (or should) be paying the kind of money which goes with it.
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Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Hell, Mac Jones has shown something this year too.
Then again, the system he plays in seems to be very QB friendly. Doesn't take a big-time talent to make Kyle Shanahan's system go.
Hell, Mac Jones has shown something this year too.
Then again, the system he plays in seems to be very QB friendly. Doesn't take a big-time talent to make Kyle Shanahan's system go.
Jones showed a little his first year. Jones to me is a guy that if you put him in and keep in specifically controlled situations/scenario (ie can mask the deficiency and accentuate what he does well) you can get pretty decent results. Shanahan has shown he is a wizard at doing so.
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Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
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Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Darnold I think more Jeff George type
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