For the haters
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Agree with almost all of this.
But has Baker shown #1 overall value/ability, especially with Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson in that same draft?
Why would Depodesta be who you think is the guilty party for the Watson trade?
I'll answer your last question first. regarding Depodesta... We'll never know for sure how much influence Paul had regarding trades or drafting. So if you want to say the trade for Watson was a collective organizational FUBAR, you won't get any disagreement from me.
Regarding the 2025 edition of Baker... OK, if you twist my arm, I'm going to have to say TO DATE Allen and Jackson were better values in that draft. LOL Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen were not.
Now a little back story on myself... If you notice my sig line- one of me hobbies was mountaineering (now retired). To tout my own horn (a little bit) I've climbed the three highest peaks in Wyoming- Gannet Peak, The Grand Teton, and Fremont Peak. So I have a soft spot in my heart for the state. I've visited the University of Wyoming campus in Laramie at least three times. So I had more than a passing interest in that wunderkid Josh Allen when he played there. He was a very inaccurate cannon armed kid at the time. Reports were he could toss it 90+ yards in the air (unconfirmed). My feeling was a hard pass at the time.
Ah, Lamar Jackson... Another (lucky for the Ravens) fluke. At the combine, teams wanted Jackson to try out for wide receiver, and run a 40 (he refused). I said at the time he was essentially a running back who incindentally was able to pass the ball. His running ability was\is unquestioned, and he's now #1 with a bullet having amassed the most rushing yards by a quarterback in the history of the NFL. His passing ability was another story entirely. BUT thanks to his incredible athletic ability (and some mighty good coaching I might add) he's turned into a pretty good quarterback besides.
I'll answer your last question first. regarding Depodesta... We'll never know for sure how much influence Paul had regarding trades or drafting. So if you want to say the trade for Watson was a collective organizational FUBAR, you won't get any disagreement from me.
Regarding the 2025 edition of Baker... OK, if you twist my arm, I'm going to have to say TO DATE Allen and Jackson were better values in that draft. LOL Sam Darnold and Josh Rosen were not.
Now a little back story on myself... If you notice my sig line- one of me hobbies was mountaineering (now retired). To tout my own horn (a little bit) I've climbed the three highest peaks in Wyoming- Gannet Peak, The Grand Teton, and Fremont Peak. So I have a soft spot in my heart for the state. I've visited the University of Wyoming campus in Laramie at least three times. So I had more than a passing interest in that wunderkid Josh Allen when he played there. He was a very inaccurate cannon armed kid at the time. Reports were he could toss it 90+ yards in the air (unconfirmed). My feeling was a hard pass at the time.
Ah, Lamar Jackson... Another (lucky for the Ravens) fluke. At the combine, teams wanted Jackson to try out for wide receiver, and run a 40 (he refused). I said at the time he was essentially a running back who incindentally was able to pass the ball. His running ability was\is unquestioned, and he's now #1 with a bullet having amassed the most rushing yards by a quarterback in the history of the NFL. His passing ability was another story entirely. BUT thanks to his incredible athletic ability (and some mighty good coaching I might add) he's turned into a pretty good quarterback besides.
I fall under the collective FUBAR camp. Though more to the it was an ownership decision decision to pull the trigger on the Watson trade. I find it to be more likely that each area provided their inputs for having the most info to make the decision. I also find it more likely that when the price to aquire Watson became what it did, the collective inputs were that it was too high. But Haslam was all in regardless the price/risk.
I appreciate your comment on Depodesta. The reality is, we (those not working in Berea) have no idea what his roll, and the organization under him truly have, or the amount of influence he/they have. I am not in favor of the boogeyman approach with him and analytics.
To Allen, that is ultimately some people in the Bills org putting their neck out there that the raw talent could be harnessed and developed.
Jackson, I never understood those that said he needed to change position. He showed in college he could pass the rock from the pocket. But his athleticism certainly meant he was never going to be a pocket passer in the traditional sense. To me he showed the potential to be what was envisioned with Vick, and then RG3. I think some some extent what happened to/with RG3.
Back to Baker, and really the entire "franchise" QB minicour, it gets thrown around too much for my taste. Baker has certainly developed in to a legit NFL starting QB. That in and of its self actually is a high bar achievement. There really are only about 20 guys who meet that level in the NFL. I reserve the "franchise" label to those which are truly the best of the best. The guys that regardless of what the situation around them is, they look the part on Sundays. In the NFL, there is usually maybe 5 guys which fit that label at any given time. As well as being guys you want to be (or should) be paying the kind of money which goes with it.
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Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Hell, Mac Jones has shown something this year too.
Then again, the system he plays in seems to be very QB friendly. Doesn't take a big-time talent to make Kyle Shanahan's system go.
Hell, Mac Jones has shown something this year too.
Then again, the system he plays in seems to be very QB friendly. Doesn't take a big-time talent to make Kyle Shanahan's system go.
Jones showed a little his first year. Jones to me is a guy that if you put him in and keep in specifically controlled situations/scenario (ie can mask the deficiency and accentuate what he does well) you can get pretty decent results. Shanahan has shown he is a wizard at doing so.
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Good point - and it's probably a good time we start including the late emergence of Sam Darnold with that draft. That turned out to be a very strong draft class - showing each QB had different obstacles to hurdle. Some more than others - depending on surrounding talent, offensive coaches in charge of their learning & development, and each QB's conceptualization of the playbook in tandem with how long it took him to be able to function and succeed at the speed of the NFL game (above and beyond all inevitable growing pains).
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
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Well put. Just like in the rest of life, people grow and develop at different paces.
In regards to Darnold, I am still on pumpkin watch.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Darnold I think more Jeff George type
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Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Darnold I think more Jeff George type
Darnold I think more Jeff George type
Yeah, that might even be a better comparison. Darnold was a WR and LBer that didn't even play QB until his sophomore year in high school after the starting QB got injured. He was a great athlete like Plunkett. Plunkett was a State Champion Wrestler in high school (in California) as well as a great baseball player aside from being a QB and starting Defensive End.
It's amazing what great athletes some of these guy are. Not to be outdone - Jeff George also played basketball & baseball. That doesn't really surprise with the hand-eye coordination he had on the gridiron.
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Darnold I think more Jeff George type
Yeah, that might even be a better comparison. Darnold was a WR and LBer that didn't even play QB until his sophomore year in high school after the starting QB got injured. He was a great athlete like Plunkett. Plunkett was a State Champion Wrestler in high school (in California) as well as a great baseball player aside from being a QB and starting Defensive End.
It's amazing what great athletes some of these guy are. Not to be outdone - Jeff George also played basketball & baseball. That doesn't really surprise with the hand-eye coordination he had on the gridiron.
Yeah, that might even be a better comparison. Darnold was a WR and LBer that didn't even play QB until his sophomore year in high school after the starting QB got injured. He was a great athlete like Plunkett. Plunkett was a State Champion Wrestler in high school (in California) as well as a great baseball player aside from being a QB and starting Defensive End.
It's amazing what great athletes some of these guy are. Not to be outdone - Jeff George also played basketball & baseball. That doesn't really surprise with the hand-eye coordination he had on the gridiron.
Mike Evans was a basketball player and that Aggie CB from another era Lester Hayes was a player on the undefeated state champ basketball team, Houston Wheatley. I think the NFL missed the boat in not making him a HOFer.
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But if you haters are still going on about maturity
WSS
A grown man using the word "haters" like he's some kind of broke ass, local SoundCloud rapper... while following it up with the word "maturity".
Your posts always given me an amused smirk.
I always liked Goff. I felt badly for him for what the Rams did to him...
... by surrounding him with elite talent?
A grown man using the word "haters" like he's some kind of broke ass, local SoundCloud rapper... while following it up with the word "maturity".
Your posts always given me an amused smirk.
... by surrounding him with elite talent?
So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while? You should try that memory preparation the name of which slips me at the moment. But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
A grown man using the word "haters" like he's some kind of broke ass, local SoundCloud rapper... while following it up with the word "maturity".
Your posts always given me an amused smirk.
... by surrounding him with elite talent?
So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while? You should try that memory preparation the name of which slips me at the moment. But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while? You should try that memory preparation the name of which slips me at the moment. But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
Prevegen?
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Thanks - good points! I have a feeling you're not the only one with that thinking on Darnold. For some reason he reminds me of Jim Plunkett who flunked it with the Patriots & 49ers before leading the Raiders to 2 SB Championships and being named SB MVP. That said, he might have the worst career TD:INT ratio of anyone in the Pro Football Hall of Fame with 164:198 over his 15 year career.
Darnold I think more Jeff George type
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So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while? You should try that memory preparation the name of which slips me at the moment. But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
Prevegen?
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Yes. That was actually the joke.
WSS
And here I was thinking Cialis.?
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Yes. That was actually the joke.
WSS
And here I was thinking Cialis.?
And here I was thinking Cialis.?
Are you drawing from personal experience??
Nickers...."There are no old running QB's in the NFL "~Sam Rutigliano~ -
Yes. That was actually the joke.
WSS
And here I was thinking Cialis.?
And here I was thinking Cialis.?
Did you see her? The bigger question is did she see you - you old rascal?
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And here I was thinking Cialis.?
Are you drawing from personal experience??
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And here I was thinking Cialis.?
Are you drawing from personal experience??
Are you drawing from personal experience??
I'm 78+ and had laser surgery to the prostate, so draw your own conclusions.?
Did you see her? The bigger question is did she see you - you old rascal?
As long as I can see her that helps even after 55 years+.?
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I'm 78+ and had laser surgery to the prostate, so draw your own conclusions.?
As long as I can see her that helps even after 55 years+.?
? Thatta boy Aggies!
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A grown man using the word "haters" like he's some kind of broke ass, local SoundCloud rapper... while following it up with the word "maturity".
Your posts always given me an amused smirk.
... by surrounding him with elite talent?
So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while? You should try that memory preparation the name of which slips me at the moment. But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while?
....huh? I don’t speak incoherent, please translate.
You should try that memory preparation
I believe that would be 'preparation H'
But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
You once said "I know you don't like me" and you're right - I don't.
While I doubt you have internal monolog, that inside voice which asks questions before you talk (post) maybe you should look at this exchange, really this entire thread, and ask yourself 'why?'
This thread really highlights it.
- You are the owner of a Browns forum, a Browns community. Yet you know fuck-all about the game of football.
- You rarely engage/post on the football side.
- You troll your own fan base. Your posts celebrate a player on another team. Almost actively rooting against the Browns. That reminds me, no updates from you since the Bucs went on their losing 3 of the last 4.
- You have the nerve to pop in, complaining *about* people complaining. Mostly revolving around non-existent stuff. Then you hang the shutdown of the board over posters heads like an emotional anchor or ultimatum.
- You say the shutdown isn't related to money, but aggravation of running the board. A poster with the financial and technical skillset has offered to take the whole thing off your hands AND make improvements. Still no word on whether you're going to do the right thing and transfer ownership, or just to just be a dick and allow the site to lapse out of spite.
But hey, you love complaining about the complaints. At this point I'm convinced it's an effeminate need for attention that some dudes have.
Begs the question - what reason(s) do I have to like you?
Tl:dr. You're a fucking clown, Steve. Stop whining like a bitch, hand the ownership of the board over and go find a Tampa Bay forum to spew your bullshit on. You bring nothing of value to the greater conversation that is the game of football.
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So the term Baker haters has slipped her mind after big tossed around here for quite a while?
....huh? I don’t speak incoherent, please translate.
You should try that memory preparation
I believe that would be 'preparation H'
But just go f*** yourself rise to your level of mature expectations?
?
WSS
You once said "I know you don't like me" and you're right - I don't.
While I doubt you have internal monolog, that inside voice which asks questions before you talk (post) maybe you should look at this exchange, really this entire thread, and ask yourself 'why?'
This thread really highlights it.
- You are the owner of a Browns forum, a Browns community. Yet you know fuck-all about the game of football.
- You rarely engage/post on the football side.
- You troll your own fan base. Your posts celebrate a player on another team. Almost actively rooting against the Browns. That reminds me, no updates from you since the Bucs went on their losing 3 of the last 4.
- You have the nerve to pop in, complaining *about* people complaining. Mostly revolving around non-existent stuff. Then you hang the shutdown of the board over posters heads like an emotional anchor or ultimatum.
- You say the shutdown isn't related to money, but aggravation of running the board. A poster with the financial and technical skillset has offered to take the whole thing off your hands AND make improvements. Still no word on whether you're going to do the right thing and transfer ownership, or just to just be a dick and allow the site to lapse out of spite.
But hey, you love complaining about the complaints. At this point I'm convinced it's an effeminate need for attention that some dudes have.
Begs the question - what reason(s) do I have to like you?
Tl:dr. You're a fucking clown, Steve. Stop whining like a bitch, hand the ownership of the board over and go find a Tampa Bay forum to spew your bullshit on. You bring nothing of value to the greater conversation that is the game of football.
....huh? I don’t speak incoherent, please translate.
I believe that would be 'preparation H'
You once said "I know you don't like me" and you're right - I don't.
While I doubt you have internal monolog, that inside voice which asks questions before you talk (post) maybe you should look at this exchange, really this entire thread, and ask yourself 'why?'
This thread really highlights it.
- You are the owner of a Browns forum, a Browns community. Yet you know fuck-all about the game of football.
- You rarely engage/post on the football side.
- You troll your own fan base. Your posts celebrate a player on another team. Almost actively rooting against the Browns. That reminds me, no updates from you since the Bucs went on their losing 3 of the last 4.
- You have the nerve to pop in, complaining *about* people complaining. Mostly revolving around non-existent stuff. Then you hang the shutdown of the board over posters heads like an emotional anchor or ultimatum.
- You say the shutdown isn't related to money, but aggravation of running the board. A poster with the financial and technical skillset has offered to take the whole thing off your hands AND make improvements. Still no word on whether you're going to do the right thing and transfer ownership, or just to just be a dick and allow the site to lapse out of spite.
But hey, you love complaining about the complaints. At this point I'm convinced it's an effeminate need for attention that some dudes have.
Begs the question - what reason(s) do I have to like you?
Tl:dr. You're a fucking clown, Steve. Stop whining like a bitch, hand the ownership of the board over and go find a Tampa Bay forum to spew your bullshit on. You bring nothing of value to the greater conversation that is the game of football.
Shirley Tiam is on another supreme fake ego rampage. This coming from a twerp who played football and anyone who doesn't kiss his hs diploma is his enemy. or, her enemy. Tiam, you are such a coward, you are afraid to do one mock draft. Would that shatter your fake highness? You are afraid to take part in the Brownsboard fantasy football stuff, but you want to dance around and curtsy to your few fans on this forum, and pout like you are the darth vader of this board. Seems to me, you don't like anyone who won't be a fan. "Oh, PULLLLEEEEZE follow my podcast (LOL LOL BLAH) because I'm so special because i was a real....tight end? and I can monday morning quarterback any team in the NFL so if you don't worship ME, then I will get mad and say sissy girlie mean things to you."
Here's an idea, why don't you leave this board, start your own, take your few haters with you, and I don't care if you keep pretending you are better than Tom Brady, just go straight to a dance floor somewhere else.
Wait, that is too long.
Why not take your extremely belligerent and pompous, bloviated arrogant ass somewhere else and have a nice day, Shirley?
and grow the hell up...
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Holy smokes, tia really got 'Ol' Wounded Knees' inferiority complex flaring this morning! ?
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