Draft so you can win more games

Dutch Oven

@flugel said:

Nice job with Caleb Lomu, Logan Jones & Avieone Terrell - but I'm not sure they're all still going to be there in the draft slots he chose them in. What do you think Dutch?

I agree, I think at least 2 of those three will be gone by the time he had us taking them.

Also, I’ve never heard anyone say Lomu should be a right tackle?

calfoxwc

Interesting - I would do this trade. I'd love to trade down to 12 for the cowboys two picks in the first round, but this trade is more likely.

https://heavy.com/sports/nfl/cleveland-browns/chiefs-draft-trade-proposal-monroe-freeling/

Browns Positioned to Benefit From Blockbuster Draft-Day Pitch With Chiefs

SdBacker80

I’ve mentioned Green in here a few times. I watched a couple Arkansas games where he didn’t play well but had some flashes. Speed and decent deep ball stand out to me. Looks like he will need 2/3 years to process a new offense and defensive wrinkles thrown at him. Looks like a slow processor.

My stubbornness always leads me here:

1. If you are Top 10 in a draft it is always BPA. If you aren’t a QB, Pass Rusher, LT with gold jacket potential outside of these three positions you need to be a unicorn at your position.

2. If BPA in the Top 10 gives you pause trade back.

3. In the first round Generally don’t like taking lineman that have better traits to be moved into the interior line. With the exception of a smart athletic center (worked well for us once Alex Mack).

4. give me size and other measurables at the corner position.

5. If I’m running into JAG types on Day 3 try to turn that 5th, 6th or 7th round pick into a 4th, 5th or 6th round pick the following year. And you could always flip the acquired pick during training camp for a player in targeted need spot.

6. If I don’t have a true number 1 QB I’m taking one each draft. Mainly Day 3 here. And Green raw as can be has some unique tools and throws a decent deep ball.

Flugel

@dutch-oven said:

I brought up that I like Concepcion for the #24 pick to my buddy yesterday at lunch, and he's not a fan. Said he runs basically two routes. What say you?

Dutch this video shows more than 2 routes by Concepcion. FWIW, sometimes a limitation/restriction of use of all the routes within the passing tree is set by an OC/HC more so to help a QB than just 1 WR. This highlight will show they even like to use him instead of their RB on some of the runs/short routes usually designated exclusively for RBs. They use him the way the Browns SHOULD have used Metcalf as opposed to Metcalf up the middle (before Metcalf's next 3 NFL employers used him as a productive WR/Slot/Flanker in space. Slotting or flanking or putting him in motion off the LOS makes press covering him next to impossible). A&M didn't get that extreme obviously but I think their very intelligent HC knew who his top scoring weapon was.

Flugel

@dutch-oven said:

I agree, I think at least 2 of those three will be gone by the time he had us taking them.

Also, I’ve never heard anyone say Lomu should be a right tackle?

I'm sure Lomu appreciated hearing that for the 1st time too.

Jax

@flugel said:

Dutch this video shows more than 2 routes by Concepcion. FWIW, sometimes a limitation/restriction of use of all the routes within the passing tree is set by an OC/HC more so to help a QB than just 1 WR. This highlight will show they even like to use him instead of their RB on some of the runs/short routes usually designated exclusively for RBs. They use him the way the Browns SHOULD have used Metcalf as opposed to Metcalf up the middle (before Metcalf's next 3 NFL employers used him as a productive WR/Slot/Flanker in space. Slotting or flanking or putting him in motion off the LOS makes press covering him next to impossible). A&M didn't get that extreme obviously but I think their very intelligent HC knew who his top scoring weapon was.

Concepcion would be a great pick if we already had a #1 WR in my opinion.

syd

@TonyGrossi

Georgia OT Monroe Freeling having his pro day today. Browns repped only by scouts Shaun Herock & Matt Donahoe, per source

Dutch Oven

Flugel

@syd said:

@TonyGrossi

Georgia OT Monroe Freeling having his pro day today. Browns repped only by scouts Shaun Herock & Matt Donahoe, per source

My guess Syd is since he attended and participated at the Combine; between that and film study - they should have already had sufficient data collected on him.

tiamat63

@gator said:

@tiamat63

I've lurked here a long time and I know you deep dive into the X's and O's. I'm curious on your opinion of Taylen Green out of Arkansas.

He seems very Lamar Jacksonesque. Idk if Monken would look at him as a young QB he could mold.

Apologies if he's already been discussed!

You asked a question, here's my answer so far.

Re: the Lamar Jackson comparison. Because I've been hearing it ALOT lately. My Rebuttal...

Green's build and running style doesn't remind me of Lamar at all. I absolutely see Vince Young when he pulls down the football. At least, the same threat vertically in the open field. Green doesn't have the same lateral ability Vince had and he isn't even close to what Lamar can do in short space/ East-West.

The clip I posted above is a nice reference for SOME of the patience he can show in the pocket when the call design is to push the ball vertically. I even slowed down a part of the clip. When he hits that back foot at the top of his drop, you see him still keeping his eyes downfield, looking for his vertical mark and climbing the pocket - all at the SAME time. It sounds silly but it's very uncommon to see that in 2026. His height gives him an advantage of survey that many others don't have. Including the ability to work from confined spaces while having greater vision of the field.

**Pros**

- Fantastic measurables. (As mentioned above)

- Solid feel for when to pull the ball down and escape. Great vertical threat when he opens up and runs.

- Shows flashes of patience when put in crowded, chaotic pockets.

- Natural arm strength is above average. Ball arrives with velocity.

- Efficient operation in the QB Centric/supplemented read option game. Also seems to have a good command of his keys in the RPO game.

- Makes OK-ish choices throwing hot.

**CONS**

... Pretty much everything else.

- Footwork is a mess. Doesn't matter if it's in gun or UC. At times, Green does that same, what I can only call a "gather step" in shorter drops. Similar to what Baker did in his early days, that has his right foot out in front of him, delaying his arm mechanics for the throw. I know when Stefanski arrived it was an incredibly subtle thing, yet a larger mechanical issue they wanted to iron out. Footwork has been Baker's biggest mechanical struggle throughout his NFL career. He even had some trouble a couple years ago when he started with Tampa. If you don't have great structure early, it's a bitch to fix later and that shit lingers.

Building a QB is like anything else, it starts from the ground up. But, much like any proper foundation, widely overlooked, not given the weight of it's importance, or intentionally neglected. Anywho, yeah, his footwork in the RPO game delays the ball getting out. 3-5-7 step drops from under center are sloppy and not that, Tom Brady type deliberate, which should be every QB's gold standard.

- Throwing motion can be a real problem. Highly exaggerated wind-up. He doesn't do the Tim Tebow "windmill" (elbow drops too far) but the elongation behind his frame almost looks like someone getting into their shotput stance. Ball has zip when he gets it out, but I compare it to a trebuchet. There's also no consistency with his un-pressured delivery point. Sometimes you have to throw off-platform and adjust your delivery, that's modern QB'ing. Same with golf as it is with football. But like hitting the links, your swinging motion the other 90% of the time needs to be consistent and 2nd nature. If not? You'll never be par the course.

Those two right there are enough to drop him to a late day 2, early day 3 prospect. When your feet are a mess it effects everything. When you mix in the questionable mechanics as a passer, then you've essentially become a rebuilding project. The footwork needs to be torn down to the frame and rebuilt. The arm can be 2nd. Fix the feet and the delivery timing will naturally improve as will the accuracy. But unless the arm work is improved, that will be his limit. In that respect, that's where the Lamar Jackson comparison comes into play. Lamar's footwork has greatly improved in the NFL. His throwing motion still has the same base function as it did at Louisville, minus him elevating his delivery point to a more 2/3rds rotation.

I see glimpses of Green going through progressions. Arkansas looks like they play a heavy pure progression system. I didn't see any evidence of full field reads. They like to limit to half field and play the common 1-->2-->check Other times I see him lock and fire onto his primary, which gets him into trouble or doesn't Maximize the Concept. As a result, yards are left on the table.

Physically the kid has gifts. That alone will get him drafted. But right now I don't see his gifts as a runner being enough to compensate for his deficiencies as a passer early on. Similar to Anthony Richardson - he's ready to be a full time athlete, but he has a long way to go before he's a comprehensive, NFL QB.

Dutch Oven

Dutch Oven

Here's a small school guy with great measurables (6'3" 206lbs, 4.42/40) who is a physical specimen. Needs to hit the weight room and improve his route-running. Could be someone to look at long and hard in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.Greg Cosell speaks highly of him and has him solidly in his top 10 WRs.

ballpeen

@dutch-oven said:

Here's a small school guy with great measurables (6'3" 206lbs, 4.42/40) who is a physical specimen. Needs to hit the weight room and improve his route-running. Could be someone to look at long and hard in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.Greg Cosell speaks highly of him and has him solidly in his top 10 WRs.

Been on him for a good while. He is going to be good.

Measurements and background remind me of Terrel Owens. Owen played here in Chattanooga, a big fast kid who went on to a great NFL career.

Orion

Thank you Joe. I'm right there with ya!

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SdBacker80

@orion said:

Thank you Joe. I'm right there with ya!

I don’t know….Sounds like a hedge.

WR is need 1a and OT is need 1b but If there is value (insert OSU Defender) you take advantage of that.

Sounds like he’s just not on board with Ty Simpson at 6

tiamat63

@sdbacker80 said:

Sounds like he’s just not on board with Ty Simpson at 6

Nobody should be.

SdBacker80

@tiamat63 said:

Nobody should be.

Agree this would set us back at least four more years. Have to figure we give him a shot with a handful of games in 26. We win 3/4 games again and we pass on a 27 QB to give him a chance in 2027.

Dutch Oven

@tiamat63 said:

Nobody should be.

Drafting Ty Simpson at 6 after enduring the Watson debacle is the ultimate example of "Two wrongs don't make a right".

Ty Simpson has some definite positives, but he's so inexperienced and honestly so not ready to endure the physical demands of playing in the NFL. He needs to go to a team that brings him up like a Packers QB, and that team is not your Cleveland Browns. It would be a recipe for disaster.

Dutch Oven

@sdbacker80 said:

Agree this would set us back at least four more years. Have to figure we give him a shot with a handful of games in 26. We win 3/4 games again and we pass on a 27 QB to give him a chance in 2027.

Or we realize our error and draft ANOTHER QB high in 2027, and basically piss a #6 overall pick away.

Either way, just don't draft Simpson at #6.

Orion

@sdbacker80 said:

I don’t know….Sounds like a hedge.

WR is need 1a and OT is need 1b but If there is value (insert OSU Defender) you take advantage of that.

He didn't specify. Which could mean that there is someone at the top of the draft that he doesn't expect to fall to us.

I usually like JT's take on things (but not always). During his playing days he was talking to a reporter. He was saying how the difference between winning and losing in the NFL is very slim. He said that it's imperative to have a QB and passing attack capable of coming down the FG at the end of the game to score the winning points. You can't run yourself down the field at the end of the game, or end of the half. And so many games come down to the wire. I remember thinking that he might make a good HC.