Meet the DSA

htownbrown

The poster boy is about to get posterized. The closer we get to election day the louder this drum will beat.

Torres

Congressman Ritchie Torres Writes to Executives at Twitch...

The full letter Rep. Torres sent reads as follows (official PDF attached with citations): I am writing to express alarm about the amplification of antisemitism on Twitch at the hands of Hasan Piker, w

MLD Woody

@htownbrown said:
The poster boy is about to get posterized. The closer we get to election day the louder this drum will beat.
Torres
Congressman Ritchie Torres Writes to Executives at Twitch...
The full letter Rep. Torres sent reads as follows (official PDF attached with citations): I am writing to express alarm about the amplification of antisemitism on Twitch at the hands of Hasan Piker, w

Fight the good fight against the new reactionary right's Boogeyman. We'll see if this matters at all ok November...

htownbrown

@mld-woody said:
Fight the good fight against the new reactionary right's Boogeyman. We'll see if this matters at all ok November...

A democrat congressman wrote that.

MLD Woody

@htownbrown said:
A democrat congressman wrote that.

That doesn't change the fact he's the reactionary right's latest Boogeyman...

I also see Ritchie Torres has received a lot of money from AIPAC, so, not surprised. He's gotta keep the money coming. Establishment Dems are not immune to the political influence of Israel, not at all.

Maybe Piker being Israel's Boogeyman is just as accurate. He's a strong voice on the anti Zionist, anti Israel genocide movement as we see Israel support reaching all time low. Especially among the youth. This is Israel's last generation of support in the US and they're gonna go out swinging. Full influence campaigns and coordinated attacks

We have the best campaign financial system...

htownbrown

@mld-woody said:
That doesn't change the fact he's the reactionary right's latest Boogeyman...
I also see Ritchie Torres has received a lot of money from AIPAC, so, not surprised. He's gotta keep the money coming. Establishment Dems are not immune to the political influence of Israel, not at all.
Maybe Piker being Israel's Boogeyman is just as accurate. He's a strong voice on the anti Zionist, anti Israel genocide movement as we see Israel support reaching all time low. Especially among the youth. This is Israel's last generation of support in the US and they're gonna go out swinging. Full influence campaigns and coordinated attacks
We have the best campaign financial system...

Fair enough on Torres, but those quotes of Piker are real and easy to find. I don't USUALLY fall for clips, I take time to hear the context. He can't use AIPAC being too involved in american politics to say everything he does about americans, jewish or not. Inbred pig dogs, really?

If I, a nobody, claimed iranians in America must denounce Iran in totality or people will come "take action against them", we would both know that has implications. And if I said it 10 years ago, here, you would have more than likely called me a racist/islamophobe or at least a dog whistler. Be consistent.

You know, Piker is an anchor baby that lived in Turkey up until his college days. He could have destroyed "evil" capitalism and fought human rights violatiions in Turkey since he is also a citizen over there. Do you not see the irony of his own dual loyalties and his lack of human rights interest in Turkey? I know the Kurds know what I'm saying. What's really the difference between the PLO/Hamas and the PKK? He supports one, but not the other? Weird, right? The Kurds that follow and accept the turkish laws live in the cities and the one's that don't have to stay on the eastern tip in the mountains. Sound familiar? Your only argument would be scale, not principle.

But more interestingly, when you say "we have the best campaign financing" are you suggesting you are a member of the DSA?

If so, I have one question that maybe you can answer that I'm not smart enough too. The DSA have openly stated they will abolish the constitution and replace it with some other bullshit that's to be determined after we vote them into power. Being that the constitution was ratified by the states and the only thing binding the states into a country, which in turn gave us the federal government, how would they enforce the new concoction on states that don't agree with it considering they would disolve their own ability to enforce anything?

MLD Woody

@htownbrown said:
Fair enough on Torres, but those quotes of Piker are real and easy to find. I don't USUALLY fall for clips, I take time to hear the context. He can't use AIPAC being too involved in american politics to say everything he does about americans, jewish or not. Inbred pig dogs, really?
If I, a nobody, claimed iranians in America must denounce Iran in totality or people will come "take action against them", we would both know that has implications. And if I said it 10 years ago, here, you would have more than likely called me a racist/islamophobe or at least a dog whistler. Be consistent.
You know, Piker is an anchor baby that lived in Turkey up until his college days. He could have destroyed "evil" capitalism and fought human rights violatiions in Turkey since he is also a citizen over there. Do you not see the irony of his own dual loyalties and his lack of human rights interest in Turkey? I know the Kurds know what I'm saying. What's really the difference between the PLO/Hamas and the PKK? He supports one, but not the other? Weird, right? The Kurds that follow and accept the turkish laws live in the cities and the one's that don't have to stay on the eastern tip in the mountains. Sound familiar? Your only argument would be scale, not principle.
But more interestingly, when you say "we have the best campaign financing" are you suggesting you are a member of the DSA?
If so, I have one question that maybe you can answer that I'm not smart enough too. The DSA have openly stated they will abolish the constitution and replace it with some other bullshit that's to be determined after we vote them into power. Being that the constitution was ratified by the states and the only thing binding the states into a country, which in turn gave us the federal government, how would they enforce the new concoction on states that don't agree with it considering they would disolve their own ability to enforce anything?

Alright, lots to cover here

I feel like the younger generations, especially if they're following politics, are pretty well versed at following the money trail. This is a great example with AIPAC. I'd urge everyone to do that as we weather this coordinated hit piece.

Piker has spoken out about antisemitism many, many times. He's called many racial superiority groups inbred (e.g., Nazis). Quotes are floating around that are completely out of context and bordering just straight up lies. Israel and it's supporters are continuing to purposely conflate antisemitism with anti Zionism / anti Israel sentiment. They're using it as a shield, but it is going to backfire. Same people can recognize you can be against the actions of Israel and not be antisemitic.

Not sure what other clips/quotes are out there "proving" Piker is antisemitic. Telling that major media wants to talk endlessly about him but no one seems to want to have him on. More scrutiny is being put candidates campaigning with Piker than Miller beating his wife, aggressively Islamaphobic and racist comments by MAGA influencers and politicians, or members of Mike Rodger's campaign that actively praised Hitler, etc etc etc

The shift from "poor Israel" to "look at those scary Muslims" is all calculated by Israel and their influence arm. Israel is at record low popularity in the US, especially among younger generations. People can see with their own eyes they're committing a genocide, sending murdering settlers into Palestinian territory, etc. It is a losing issue so there's been a coordinated shift to anti Islam attacks. Look at this board, our MAGA friends here regurgitate whatever they're fed through twitter, Fox, etc. There's been a massive uptick of threads and posts that are Islamaphobic in nature. All while Muslim progressives are winning elections. All while Israel is desperate to hold onto its influence. None of that is a coincidence. These coordinated attacks on Piker are no different, and seen to be the bait you've latched onto.

On DSA, I watched that interview. I spent a handful of years at an internationally relevant/prestigious organization. We had our share of former employees seeking 15 minutes of fame. Some of these disgruntled employees were much less important than they made out to be in their interviews (some legit). I have to wonder where the guy being interviewed was. Searching online he seems to have popped up recently and then started doing a full right wing media tour.

I also love his generalization of DSA members. Let's say all MAGA supporters are Charlottesville nazi marchers. Or uneducated white rednecks that stormed the Capitol. Etc.

I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to eliminating the Constitution. I'm sure I don't agree with every single point of the DSA national platform either. But I do know that:

I don't want to fund Israel's genocide
I think healthcare should be a right like every other developed nation
Our growing income inequality is a huge issue and we need to tax the super rich more, close loopholes, etc
We need to massively reform campaign finance
Climate change is a real issue
ICE needs to be refunded, reduced, etc
Higher education tuition needs to be reformed to fix spiraling student loans
Our electoral college is an outdated system and needs fixed
How we vote in general needs fixed (should be a national holiday, should be ranked choice voting, etc)
We need to cut military funding and shift it to infrastructure, education, etc

I could go on. But the point I'm getting at, even if I don't agree with every DSA national policy point, I align with them more than any other option.

Our two party political system is a mess. It's hardly two party. Establishment Dems are a disaster and MAGA Reps are dangerous and actively harming this country. It isn't left vs right. It's too vs bottom. The bulk of the current two party options are 80%+ the same thing. They want to stoke this left vs right nonsense, this culture war nonsense, to distract people and to keep power and wealth consolidated at the top.

We need more than two parties. We need real, drastic change to the system. The best way to achieve that right now is with DSA candidates

htownbrown

@mld-woody said:
Alright, lots to cover here
I feel like the younger generations, especially if they're following politics, are pretty well versed at following the money trail. This is a great example with AIPAC. I'd urge everyone to do that as we weather this coordinated hit piece.
Piker has spoken out about antisemitism many, many times. He's called many racial superiority groups inbred (e.g., Nazis). Quotes are floating around that are completely out of context and bordering just straight up lies. Israel and it's supporters are continuing to purposely conflate antisemitism with anti Zionism / anti Israel sentiment. They're using it as a shield, but it is going to backfire. Same people can recognize you can be against the actions of Israel and not be antisemitic.
Not sure what other clips/quotes are out there "proving" Piker is antisemitic. Telling that major media wants to talk endlessly about him but no one seems to want to have him on. More scrutiny is being put candidates campaigning with Piker than Miller beating his wife, aggressively Islamaphobic and racist comments by MAGA influencers and politicians, or members of Mike Rodger's campaign that actively praised Hitler, etc etc etc
The shift from "poor Israel" to "look at those scary Muslims" is all calculated by Israel and their influence arm. Israel is at record low popularity in the US, especially among younger generations. People can see with their own eyes they're committing a genocide, sending murdering settlers into Palestinian territory, etc. It is a losing issue so there's been a coordinated shift to anti Islam attacks. Look at this board, our MAGA friends here regurgitate whatever they're fed through twitter, Fox, etc. There's been a massive uptick of threads and posts that are Islamaphobic in nature. All while Muslim progressives are winning elections. All while Israel is desperate to hold onto its influence. None of that is a coincidence. These coordinated attacks on Piker are no different, and seen to be the bait you've latched onto.
On DSA, I watched that interview. I spent a handful of years at an internationally relevant/prestigious organization. We had our share of former employees seeking 15 minutes of fame. Some of these disgruntled employees were much less important than they made out to be in their interviews (some legit). I have to wonder where the guy being interviewed was. Searching online he seems to have popped up recently and then started doing a full right wing media tour.
I also love his generalization of DSA members. Let's say all MAGA supporters are Charlottesville nazi marchers. Or uneducated white rednecks that stormed the Capitol. Etc.
I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to eliminating the Constitution. I'm sure I don't agree with every single point of the DSA national platform either. But I do know that:
I don't want to fund Israel's genocide
I think healthcare should be a right like every other developed nation
Our growing income inequality is a huge issue and we need to tax the super rich more, close loopholes, etc
We need to massively reform campaign finance
Climate change is a real issue
ICE needs to be refunded, reduced, etc
Higher education tuition needs to be reformed to fix spiraling student loans
Our electoral college is an outdated system and needs fixed
How we vote in general needs fixed (should be a national holiday, should be ranked choice voting, etc)
We need to cut military funding and shift it to infrastructure, education, etc
I could go on. But the point I'm getting at, even if I don't agree with every DSA national policy point, I align with them more than any other option.
Our two party political system is a mess. It's hardly two party. Establishment Dems are a disaster and MAGA Reps are dangerous and actively harming this country. It isn't left vs right. It's too vs bottom. The bulk of the current two party options are 80%+ the same thing. They want to stoke this left vs right nonsense, this culture war nonsense, to distract people and to keep power and wealth consolidated at the top.
We need more than two parties. We need real, drastic change to the system. The best way to achieve that right now is with DSA candidates

So Piker has said nothing out-of-bounds, it's just the jews' lust for power that makes it sound that way? Wow. Let's just move on from that one. But again WOW!

This is from my first link in this thread:

"To achieve this future, our class must organize. The Democratic Socialists of America is building a party whose goal is a democratic society of the working class. Our enemies are not just individual bosses, but the entire global system of capital; not just this or that cop, judge, or president, but the entire anti-democratic structure of our society. We are workers fighting to transform society: to win the battle for democracy, draft a new constitution, and create a democratic socialist republic."

So again, once the "current" constitution is removed, what actually binds the individual states into a country? And what enforcement mechanism does the "new" federal government have without the constitution?

The things you want from a specific political party has nothing to do with these questions.

MLD Woody

@htownbrown said:
So Piker has said nothing out-of-bounds, it's just the jews' lust for power that makes it sound that way? Wow. Let's just move on from that one. But again WOW!
This is from my first link in this thread:
"To achieve this future, our class must organize. The Democratic Socialists of America is building a party whose goal is a democratic society of the working class. Our enemies are not just individual bosses, but the entire global system of capital; not just this or that cop, judge, or president, but the entire anti-democratic structure of our society. We are workers fighting to transform society: to win the battle for democracy, draft a new constitution, and create a democratic socialist republic."
So again, once the "current" constitution is removed, what actually binds the individual states into a country? And what enforcement mechanism does the "new" federal government have without the constitution?
The things you want from a specific political party has nothing to do with these questions.

You seemed to put words in my mouth first and then completely ignore what I said second. Lovely.

When did I say he's never said anything out of bounds? He would tell you he's said stuff in ways he regrets. I'm telling you a lot of what's floating around is out of context / misrepresented and that the guy clearly isn't antisemitic.

I also never said "the Jews" once. I explained this whole matter on conflating Israel with all Jews and then you immediately went and did it. Again. You couldn't be playing more directly into this all...

Based on your latest posts you seem to think a twitch streamer is the greatest / one of the greatest threats to our nation. That's absurd.

Drafting a new constitution doesn't imply throwing out everything in the current one. Even then, I will bet money no new constitution will get drafted. Hell, if we're lucky we'll get an amendment.

Again though, you seemed to ignore everything I typed up. I see these DSA candidates as the best options to address many of the issues plaguing America today. Establishment Dems and Reps will only continue to make things worse (at different rates). I don't view trying to change America for the better as "hating America". You can buy into the fear mongering if you want. Again, follow the money.

htownbrown

I'm not suggesting Hasan is a boogeyman, I'm suggesting he's a piece of shit with a larger audience than anyone else in the party and therefore will obviously take center stage even though he shouldn't. I've posted more in depth things in this thread about the party co chairs than anything about Piker, yet this was what you were compelled to speak on. That tells me enough about why you are a DSA member because his entire platform is built more about how evil Israel is, than anything related to american worker rights or healthcare. If he could only accomplish one thing on a granted wish it wouldn't be about worker rights or healthcare...

We are stopping right here because we need not go any further if you're going to glaze over the idea that your party ideally would remove the constitution without a concrete replacement before holding office. I could only insult your lack of understanding of why your party is the antithesis of freedom. "They probably won't" despite claiming they would is a massive cope you can't come back from comrade.

MLD Woody

@htownbrown said:
I'm not suggesting Hasan is a boogeyman, I'm suggesting he's a piece of shit with a larger audience than anyone else in the party and therefore will obviously take center stage even though he shouldn't. I've posted more in depth things in this thread about the party co chairs than anything about Piker, yet this was what you were compelled to speak on. That tells me enough about why you are a DSA member because his entire platform is built more about how evil Israel is, than anything related to american worker rights or healthcare. If he could only accomplish one thing on a granted wish it wouldn't be about worker rights or healthcare...
We are stopping right here because we need not go any further if you're going to glaze over the idea that your party ideally would remove the constitution without a concrete replacement before holding office. I could only insult your lack of understanding of why your party is the antithesis of freedom. "They probably won't" despite claiming they would is a massive cope you can't come back from comrade.

You've posted multiple times about Piker. DSA as well, but also Piker.

And sure, we can breeze past you putting words in my mouth insinuating I'm somehow antisemitic. Alright buddy. If you want to believe anything anti Israel is antisemitic then that's another great stopping point as well.

I spoke on the interview you posted as well. I watched the whole thing...

I don't think you have any idea on what his whole platform is other than what the media and AIPAC hit pieces are telling you it is. But it's not like you'll be convinced otherwise at this point.

Now I'm a member of the DSA. It's "my party"? Sure thing man. Not sure where I ever said that, but you've been on a run putting words in my mouth and I guess this is no different.

Please follow along - I don't agree with everything in the platform. I would draft a new constitution, I'd amend what we have. But I agree with more of their platform and more of what they're trying to accomplish than establishment Dems and definitely more than Reps. I don't need to blindly agree with every single thing to justify voting for them (if I get the opportunity)

Fyi, in my earlier post, I said "we have the best campaign financial system" sarcastically. Nothing to do with me being DSA. I'm saying our campaign financing system is fucked and needs reformed.

htownbrown

@mld-woody said:
You've posted multiple times about Piker. DSA as well, but also Piker.
And sure, we can breeze past you putting words in my mouth insinuating I'm somehow antisemitic. Alright buddy. If you want to believe anything anti Israel is antisemitic then that's another great stopping point as well.
I spoke on the interview you posted as well. I watched the whole thing...
I don't think you have any idea on what his whole platform is other than what the media and AIPAC hit pieces are telling you it is. But it's not like you'll be convinced otherwise at this point.
Now I'm a member of the DSA. It's "my party"? Sure thing man. Not sure where I ever said that, but you've been on a run putting words in my mouth and I guess this is no different.
Please follow along - I don't agree with everything in the platform. I would draft a new constitution, I'd amend what we have. But I agree with more of their platform and more of what they're trying to accomplish than establishment Dems and definitely more than Reps. I don't need to blindly agree with every single thing to justify voting for them (if I get the opportunity)
Fyi, in my earlier post, I said "we have the best campaign financial system" sarcastically. Nothing to do with me being DSA. I'm saying our campaign financing system is fucked and needs reformed.

Sure, ok.

htownbrown

@mld-woody said:
You've posted multiple times about Piker. DSA as well, but also Piker.
And sure, we can breeze past you putting words in my mouth insinuating I'm somehow antisemitic. Alright buddy. If you want to believe anything anti Israel is antisemitic then that's another great stopping point as well.
I spoke on the interview you posted as well. I watched the whole thing...
I don't think you have any idea on what his whole platform is other than what the media and AIPAC hit pieces are telling you it is. But it's not like you'll be convinced otherwise at this point.
Now I'm a member of the DSA. It's "my party"? Sure thing man. Not sure where I ever said that, but you've been on a run putting words in my mouth and I guess this is no different.
Please follow along - I don't agree with everything in the platform. I would draft a new constitution, I'd amend what we have. But I agree with more of their platform and more of what they're trying to accomplish than establishment Dems and definitely more than Reps. I don't need to blindly agree with every single thing to justify voting for them (if I get the opportunity)
Fyi, in my earlier post, I said "we have the best campaign financial system" sarcastically. Nothing to do with me being DSA. I'm saying our campaign financing system is fucked and needs reformed.

Actually, let's backtrack if you want.

I don't care that Piker hates jews, AIPAC, or Israel, which he undoubtedly does. Whether we agree on that point is irrelevant. What he can't say is jews in America "will have action taken against them" for supporting Israel. That's piece of shit behavior. From what I've been hearing he gets people deplatformed for similar or less, which is typical for an ideologue. He can dress up like Mao and preach to college kids about "evil" Israel all he wants, that's not the problem. If Ben Shapiro came out and said that muslims in America must denounce support for Palestine or action will be taken on them you would call it for what it is. I posted a letter from congress about Piker, said he was getting posterized, and you came to defend him. The logical part of your brain short circuits when it comes to Piker and you start gaslighting that no one understands any of this except you.
I never accused you of being antisemitic, although the argument could be made since you parrot some of the same dumb points/studies/theories Piker makes. I've pointed it out everytime you do it, that I see, but just like with Piker I don't actually give a damn if you are. You can say "whatever man" all you want. I don't care about conflicts in that part of the world, unless americans are involved. If you and the kids do, go vote on behalf of "Palestine'. What am I supposed to say, "the rest of us will take action against you"?
Again I didn't ask what you would do, I don't care how many policy points you align with, how the youth feels, whether you're a card carrier (although I did imply it).....I asked whether we still have a federal government without our current constitution?...since you're at least a "temporary supporter".

If you don't answer the question, fine, but if not what are we doing here.