Oh no, we don't have a superstar
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Masters said:
I think the notion is all well and good, but outside of NE, who else has had success w/ that plan (note NE has also gone away from that plan).The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)
My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.
I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.
The system creates the superstar.
The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)
My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.
I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.
The system creates the superstar.
That was all well and good and I don't disagree with most of it (except possibly the household name part. if you survey'd people on the street, and even some fans of PIT, I bet most would be hard pressed to name anyone on the OL, DL, CBs, or all 4 LBds).
Most guys PIT or NE let go are generally on the decline. NE also brings in vets that already made a name for themselves before coming there, such as Moss, Seau, Harrison, Welker.
None of this still points out a team in the last 10 years where following the blue print of what BB did in NE 10 years agao and has had success.
And of course if you get the players to do their job on every play you will win more than you lose. That isn't exactly a new notion in football, or any sport for that matter. As to playing w/ anyone on any Sunday w/ no stars (maybe a Sunday here and there), you'd be hard pressed to find a single example team that has done that in the last 20+ years.
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Robiske SUCKS and you will soon find out when he gets on the field
Guy was not dominant at Ohio State and now you think he will become a good NFL player
Most NFL ready receiver scouting reports said.....How did that turn out for you...ha ha ha
Don't be a moron. We have no idea of Robo's potential yet.
I'm willing to be you're dead wrong.
AdaM said:
Don't be a moron. We have no idea of Robo's potential yet.I'm willing to be you're dead wrong.
What are you willing to bet?
Why is Robiske not playing if he was so good?
What have you seen of Brain robiske to make you feel like he would/will be good....please explain
Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?
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AdaM said:
Don't be a moron. We have no idea of Robo's potential yet.I'm willing to be you're dead wrong.
What are you willing to bet?
Why is Robiske not playing if he was so good?
What have you seen of Brain robiske to make you feel like he would/will be good....please explain
Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?
Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?
In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.
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The two NFL dynasties, NE and PITT. I actually texted this EXACT same point to Reghi yesterday but I don't think he read it. Or maybe he did? Grossi does tend to steal emailers' takes and publish them the next day. (thanks for the cred Grossi)
My point was that the system creates the stars. If you name all of the superstars in the league that have been popular from the day they came into the league like McNabb, TO, Moss, Pederson, Cutler, Palmer, V. Young just to name a few, they have no rings between all of them combined. Now, look at the Patriots and Steelers. Every name on those teams (save for Polamaulu) is a household name now because of the rings they won when nobody knew their names. Even Cassel had an excellent year in that system last year and is now, as I stated months ago, doing an excellent Scott Mitchell impression. Also, look at the players that these two dynasties let go, they rarely amount to squat anywhere else in the league.
I'm not saying talent doesn't help but nomatter who is on the field, if the coach can get them to do their job on every play, you win WAAAAAAAAAY more than you lose. And you can play with anybody in the league. on any Sunday.
The system creates the superstar.
That was all well and good and I don't disagree with most of it (except possibly the household name part. if you survey'd people on the street, and even some fans of PIT, I bet most would be hard pressed to name anyone on the OL, DL, CBs, or all 4 LBds).
Most guys PIT or NE let go are generally on the decline. NE also brings in vets that already made a name for themselves before coming there, such as Moss, Seau, Harrison, Welker.
None of this still points out a team in the last 10 years where following the blue print of what BB did in NE 10 years agao and has had success.
And of course if you get the players to do their job on every play you will win more than you lose. That isn't exactly a new notion in football, or any sport for that matter. As to playing w/ anyone on any Sunday w/ no stars (maybe a Sunday here and there), you'd be hard pressed to find a single example team that has done that in the last 20+ years.
Masters said:
That was all well and good and I don't disagree with most of it (except possibly the household name part. if you survey'd people on the street, and even some fans of PIT, I bet most would be hard pressed to name anyone on the OL, DL, CBs, or all 4 LBds).Most guys PIT or NE let go are generally on the decline. NE also brings in vets that already made a name for themselves before coming there, such as Moss, Seau, Harrison, Welker.
None of this still points out a team in the last 10 years where following the blue print of what BB did in NE 10 years agao and has had success.
And of course if you get the players to do their job on every play you will win more than you lose. That isn't exactly a new notion in football, or any sport for that matter. As to playing w/ anyone on any Sunday w/ no stars (maybe a Sunday here and there), you'd be hard pressed to find a single example team that has done that in the last 20+ years.
Masters, you are 100% correct......You need star players to win in the NFL today, its all about talent, the most talented teams win on Sunday, you can have a bunch of average NFL players and they may go 8-8 but its the star players with talent that make the big plays each week that separate the good teams from the very good teams.
The Browns played a game where they won TOP, turnovers, yards gained and still lost to the Bengals because the Bengals Carson Palmer and Chad Ochinko made big plays at the end of the game when they needed to, two guys that are more talented than most guys on the Browns sideline last week.
The Patriot way of 10 years ago will not work today and thats why the Patriots got away from that.
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Have you seen Robiske play in the NFL?
In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.
Masters said:
In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.Nobody has seen Robiske play in the NFL yet because the coaching staff has decided he is not yet good enough to see the field
Now I am no NFL talent evaluator but I saw enough of Robiske in training camp to tell you he had trouble getting separation again the DB's of the Browns and its not like the Browns DB's are the most talented in the league, so I say how is he going to consistantly get separation against good NFL corners?
I believe one of the reasons Quinn struggled was because Braylon was the only receiver he had who was getting open or running crisp routes
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@jadbf said:
Actually what the patriots did was build a foundation of a TEAM that can survive with out it's star players, and make very sure they understand that. See all the "star veterans" they cut when they decide they have gotten too old or too expensive. and it wasn't til AFTER that foundation was built that they felt able to bring in some more volitile talent. It started with Corey Dillon and continued with Moss. BUt can you tell me their records would have been all that much diferent without those two guys? I don't think it would.You act as though the Patriots did not have any talent and they won with a bunch of journeyman and that was not the case and add in you have the best coach in the NFL.
The Browns need to stop trying to be like the Patriots and get there own identity, there is only (1) Bill Belichek, what Belichek and Pioli did in New England won't be duplicated by anyone.
What has Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss and Eric Mangini done since they left New England?
Leigh Bodden could not start for a winless Detroit Lions team and now he is the number 1 cornerback for the Patriots, what does that tell you
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Masters said:
In fairness, that question can be posed right back to you.Nobody has seen Robiske play in the NFL yet because the coaching staff has decided he is not yet good enough to see the field
Now I am no NFL talent evaluator but I saw enough of Robiske in training camp to tell you he had trouble getting separation again the DB's of the Browns and its not like the Browns DB's are the most talented in the league, so I say how is he going to consistantly get separation against good NFL corners?
I believe one of the reasons Quinn struggled was because Braylon was the only receiver he had who was getting open or running crisp routes
Nobody has seen Robiske play in the NFL yet because the coaching staff has decided he is not yet good enough to see the field
Now I am no NFL talent evaluator but I saw enough of Robiske in training camp to tell you he had trouble getting separation again the DB's of the Browns and its not like the Browns DB's are the most talented in the league, so I say how is he going to consistantly get separation against good NFL corners?
I believe one of the reasons Quinn struggled was because Braylon was the only receiver he had who was getting open or running crisp routes
I was just saying, since you were using that like about seeing the guy play in the NFL. It goes both ways
Or good enough yet. This same staff did have Cribbs starting at the #2 WR and MoMass as the 4th WR just a couple of weeks ago.
I don't doubt Robiskie may have trouble getting seperation in the NFL. We may find out this Sunday.
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@jadbf said:
Actually what the patriots did was build a foundation of a TEAM that can survive with out it's star players, and make very sure they understand that. See all the "star veterans" they cut when they decide they have gotten too old or too expensive. and it wasn't til AFTER that foundation was built that they felt able to bring in some more volitile talent. It started with Corey Dillon and continued with Moss. BUt can you tell me their records would have been all that much diferent without those two guys? I don't think it would.You act as though the Patriots did not have any talent and they won with a bunch of journeyman and that was not the case and add in you have the best coach in the NFL.
The Browns need to stop trying to be like the Patriots and get there own identity, there is only (1) Bill Belichek, what Belichek and Pioli did in New England won't be duplicated by anyone.
What has Romeo Crennel, Charlie Weiss and Eric Mangini done since they left New England?
Leigh Bodden could not start for a winless Detroit Lions team and now he is the number 1 cornerback for the Patriots, what does that tell you
Leigh Bodden could not start for a winless Detroit Lions team and now he is the number 1 cornerback for the Patriots, what does that tell you
That there are some cracks and holes in NE D....lol
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@jadbf said:
And your acting like because mangini is developing his team in a way similar to the way he's been most experinaced with, that it's doomed for failure.Why is it so shocking that coaches tend to coach the way the coaches that were their mentors coached?
These snippet about the BB coaching tree for a ESPN the magazine article is what concerns me about Mangini and other guys from the BB tree
"So why hasn't Belichick's gang replicated the boss's success? There are theories. One is that there's an inherent learning curve to running a team. Many fail the first time around, including Belichick. "It's hard," he says. "You're doing a lot of things and it's hard to understand all of them, put them together, keep everything straight and make things more efficient, not just a big mess." Mangini had a winning record two of his three years in New York, but admits to being surprised by the amount of organization required. Weis and Crennel both struggled to re-create the same chemistry they found on Belichick's staff. "You just don't get a feel for that type of thing as an assistant," says Weis.
Second, only a few people know what's going on inside the Patriots organization: Belichick, his longtime friend and assistant Ernie Adams, owner Bob Kraft and team president Jonathan Kraft. "We learned about the team online," says one former staffer. Belichick doesn't allow his assistants in on the rationale behind all of his personnel decisions, making it harder for them to navigate key choices on the draft, salary cap and free agency once they're on their own. Belichick develops his guys, "but they're not true head coaches," says Savage
As head coaches, his protégés have all been accused of acting like him, as Belichick was accused of mimicking Bill Parcells. The Mangini former Pats colleagues now see with a whistle -- so serious he's Belichick to an extreme -- isn't the self-effacing guy they used to know. When McDaniels did exactly what Belichick would do in disposing of a quarterback he was unsure of (ask Bernie Kosar and Drew Bledsoe), he was accused of replicating his former boss's arrogance, not his keen eye for personnel. The move might prove prophetic -- it did in New England -- but if Denver loses early, it could backfire. "We're trying like hell to make the New England system work," he says.
But if Belichick's former charges are trying to replicate him, they're actually not doing what he would do. They're not thinking for themselves. After all, Belichick's football thinking is a direct reflection of his life. His work ethic came from a brutal year at Phillips Academy, where he realized he wasn't as smart as he thought. He has picked up wisdom from people he's met in every phase of his career. As an assistant in Denver, Belichick learned how to teach succinctly from then-Broncos DB coach Richie McCabe. Ted Marchibroda in Baltimore taught him to be flexible. He learned how to evaluate talent from his personnel guy in Cleveland, Mike Lombardi; learned the salary cap from NBA legend Jerry West; learned management from reading Jack Welch & the GE Way. He had to be fired by the Browns and wait five seasons for another chance. To stand with the game's greatest coaches, he has had to summon his 34 years of NFL experience, come off like a jerk at times, endure disputes with star players, pay a $500,000 fine for Spygate and win the lottery with a sixth-round Hall of Fame quarterback. It's as imperfect a path as there has ever been in coaching.
That's why, as they depart, Belichick advises his coaches to learn from their time with him, from his experience. Because there's no way to copy it."
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Im looking forward to our rookies finally taking to the field...the new era is finally dawning and hopefully a superstar or two will emerge over time..the only regrets at this time are i wish we had a promising rookie under center instead of mr.anderception,brady whenn and ratface the horrid...
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