Bob Dole speaks
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Like I said, it isn't going to make any difference.
Some of these objections were flat out funny. The "states may" one was my favorite. And Republican Olympia Snowe doesn't count as a Republican because you think she's too moderate. (Nevermind that the rest of the Republicans also objected.) Nor do you seem to know the difference between the public option that was rejected and the compromise options that are now being proposed. But then we're back to your problem with distinctions, from which much of your idiocy stems.
And no, the high-risk pools in the bill aren't the same ones you're talking about. It's an entirely new plan.
And there are certain states that have verification measures for illegals right now. They waste a lot of money, as we discussed. But they sure are tough on illegals! (And legals.) How can this be if they're so obviously unconstitutional? Beats the hell out of me.
I also like the continued insistence from Republicans like you that what's wrong with our health care system is we haven't had tort reform. It's the drum you guys have been beating since the 90s, along with "We have the best health care in the world!" and "Something, something, hip replacement in Canada." It's just an indication of how unserious the party is, and how little they know or care, about health care reform. Or just look at what's happened in states where they have the tort reform you speak of. It doesn't have any meaningful effect on insurance premiums.
But yes, I'm sure if we add some Republican tort reform fantasy into the bill then we'll see them clamoring to sign on. And yes, I think people like you, always on about whiners and complainers, are the ones we should trust with the problems of people who have been genuinely affected by medical malpractice. I can tell you're really concerned.
That said, I think there's a lot of waste caused by defensive medicine and we need a better system with better incentives for both doctors/hospitals and the victims of malpractice.
So yes, Steve, other than you being way off on everything, I think I made some real headway.
Like I said, it isn't going to make any difference.
I also like the continued insistence from Republicans like you that what's wrong with our health care system is we haven't had tort reform.
Then spit out the trial lawyers dicks and pass it.
Problem solved, right?
WSS
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Why ...do ...I ...bother?
Because the public option they took out won't be the same one they end up putting back in.
They will be different public options.
Different plans.
In other words, they will be set up differently, and accomplish different things.
As in, this isn't what progressives hoped for in a public option, but will be a compromise in order to secure 60 votes in the Senate.
Sort of like how Honda and Kia are both carmakers, but their operations are totally different, as is the result.
It's really not that hard to make this distinction. Even for you. I think.
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Why ...do ...I ...bother?
Because the public option they took out won't be the same one they end up putting back in.
They will be different public options.
Different plans.
In other words, they will be set up differently, and accomplish different things.
As in, this isn't what progressives hoped for in a public option, but will be a compromise in order to secure 60 votes in the Senate.
Sort of like how Honda and Kia are both carmakers, but their operations are totally different, as is the result.
It's really not that hard to make this distinction. Even for you. I think.
Why ...do ...I ...bother?
Because the public option they took out won't be the same one they end up putting back in.
They will be different public options.
Different plans.
In other words, they will be set up differently, and accomplish different things.
That's really hiarious.
OK so what will the new one be?
WSS
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Huh? I hate myself because of you. I really do.
It's not clear yet, Steve. It's not clear yet. There's a new opt-out idea that's being floated. There's a trigger idea that Snowe apparently likes. There's the co-op idea. We'll have to wait and see.
What we know if that the original plan for a nationwide public option to cover the remaining uninsured is dead unless the Democrats want to use reconciliation to pass the bill, and there's zero indication that they want to go this way.
Or you could just read a newspaper.
No, not that one. A real one.
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Huh? I hate myself because of you. I really do.
It's not clear yet, Steve. It's not clear yet. There's a new opt-out idea that's being floated. There's a trigger idea that Snowe apparently likes. There's the co-op idea. We'll have to wait and see.
What we know if that the original plan for a nationwide public option to cover the remaining uninsured is dead unless the Democrats want to use reconciliation to pass the bill, and there's zero indication that they want to go this way.
Or you could just read a newspaper.
No, not that one. A real one.
Huh? I hate myself because of you. I really do.
Glad to help.
It's not clear yet, Steve. It's not clear yet. There's a new opt-out idea that's being floated. There's a trigger idea that Snowe apparently likes. There's the co-op idea. We'll have to wait and see.
Heh heh. Seems like that's the bottom line for every claim you make for this bill doesn't it?
"We have nop idea but there'll be plenty of hope."
What we know if that the original plan for a nationwide public option to cover the remaining uninsured is dead unless the Democrats want to use reconciliation to pass the bill, and there's zero indication that they want to go this way.
Why not?
It's a great bill.
It will save billions and everyone will be covered with first class medical care.
And it won't add a dime to the deficit nor cost the average taxpayer a penny.
So why the hell not?
Or you could just read a newspaper.
NYT? Pravda?
No, not that one. A real one.
Apparently the one you read isn't forthcoming.....
WSS
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More warmed over talk show cant. And you're so proud of it. The New York Times is Pravda! Nothing but hope! Empty suit!
I liked it better when you were claiming something isn't in the bill that is in the bill. At least it was about something other than your pique.
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I watched Michael Moo-er on Hannity tonight.
Moo-er sounds more intelligent and less partisan than Heck.
That isn't saying much.
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More warmed over talk show cant. And you're so proud of it. The New York Times is Pravda! Nothing but hope! Empty suit!
I liked it better when you were claiming something isn't in the bill that is in the bill. At least it was about something other than your pique.
More warmed over talk show cant. And you're so proud of it. The New York Times is Pravda! Nothing but hope! Empty suit!
More of the same?
So we need to read only Heck approved propaganda?
I see.
Proud? Hmmm. Since you offer nothing in return but crying about some talk show that seems to bother you I suppose it counts.
I liked it better when you were claiming something isn't in the bill that is in the bill. At least it was about something other than your pique.
Yeah I know.
Getting you to admit there's nothing in the bill anybody can count on is pretty rich.
I've said over and over I'd like to see something that would make a few of Americas (and my own) health care worries less bothersome.
I don't think this will make much difference and if it does, will probably make things worse.
That's why your guys demegogue the bill but are too scared to use the nuclear option.
WSS
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you know something about the republicrat "moderates" that I hate? They dont govern or influence from any position really...
at least with the far right and the liberal left they actually do have fairly solid ideologies they govern from. I wish the dems would grow a pair like the republicans do when they are in power and push whatever they want thru.
screw this faux "bi partisan" dog and pony show for bs pr votes.... At least Bush Jr/ cheney governed by what they believed in and did not try to pander to the other side because they knew they could not win them over anyways.
The more I think about it the "blue dogs" are really just the worst sort of politicians.... they pander to both sides to stay elected rather than actually taking a solid position.
The healthcare lobbyist have their hands into the Democrats and far up their butts as much as they do the right..... They just choose the most "moderate" to divide the party enough to destabilize the power.
The right does not apologize and really they should not and neither should the left..... the health care reform without Torte reform OR a true Public option will not help Medicare or Medicaid costs or control costs....
One of my partners was a Hippa/operational VP at a healthcompany that does nothing but service Medicaid and Medicare....... That company makes Billions a year and they are only one of the many companies who administer benefits in multiple states..... talk about BS bloat...... they coud start there in cutting costs...
The longer this drags on the more this demonstrates how the goverment really has been hijacked by lobbyists/money for these major industries and does not represent us.... it makes me angry at BOTH sides because neither are truly on OUR side....
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you know something about the republicrat "moderates" that I hate? They dont govern or influence from any position really...
at least with the far right and the liberal left they actually do have fairly solid ideologies they govern from. I wish the dems would grow a pair like the republicans do when they are in power and push whatever they want thru.
screw this faux "bi partisan" dog and pony show for bs pr votes.... At least Bush Jr/ cheney governed by what they believed in and did not try to pander to the other side because they knew they could not win them over anyways.
The more I think about it the "blue dogs" are really just the worst sort of politicians.... they pander to both sides to stay elected rather than actually taking a solid position.
The healthcare lobbyist have their hands into the Democrats and far up their butts as much as they do the right..... They just choose the most "moderate" to divide the party enough to destabilize the power.
The right does not apologize and really they should not and neither should the left..... the health care reform without Torte reform OR a true Public option will not help Medicare or Medicaid costs or control costs....
One of my partners was a Hippa/operational VP at a healthcompany that does nothing but service Medicaid and Medicare....... That company makes Billions a year and they are only one of the many companies who administer benefits in multiple states..... talk about BS bloat...... they coud start there in cutting costs...
The longer this drags on the more this demonstrates how the goverment really has been hijacked by lobbyists/money for these major industries and does not represent us.... it makes me angry at BOTH sides because neither are truly on OUR side....
you know something about the republicrat "moderates" that I hate? They dont govern or influence from any position really...
I somewhat agree Sev BUT some who are called "moderates" only have a different take on an issue or two.
Like Toop and Cap and Trade.
But I still think it's a weak gamble to try and trump one side by running a faux military hawk in John Kerry agaisnt Bush OR a faux progressive in John McCain.
The more I think about it the "blue dogs" are really just the worst sort of politicians.... they pander to both sides to stay elected rather than actually taking a solid position.
Or possibly they're not as far left as their party is heading.
One could say the same about Hagel et al.
The healthcare lobbyist have their hands into the Democrats and far up their butts as much as they do the right..... They just choose the most "moderate" to divide the party enough to destabilize the power.
The right does not apologize and really they should not and neither should the left..... the health care reform without Torte reform OR a true Public option will not help Medicare or Medicaid costs or control costs....
True enough.
The longer this drags on the more this demonstrates how the goverment really has been hijacked by lobbyists/money for these major industries and does not represent us.... it makes me angry at BOTH sides because neither are truly on OUR side....
Then again (and this should be in another thread) I think the health care "crisis" is generated as a fear tactic.
I mean lets ask ourselves what the real problems are then ask if these particular things couldn't be repaired with a lot less angst.
WSS
WSS[/b]
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Westside honestly I think there could be a much simpler form to "fix" our healthcare problems...
1. medicare/medicaid costs are unsustainable..... get rid of the unison/caresource/gateway managed providers which add nothing but bloat these are BILLION dollar companies.... no need...
2. tort reform.... bring down malpractice insurance costs: this one is a no brainer.... ask any doctor or hosptial....
3. we dont really need to recreate an entire different government administered structure..... ADD to Medicaid a paid tier of service...... that anyone can subscribe into and everyone if they dont have insurance must default into by income brackets if they dont have private insurance
4. open all of the state borders for competitive and create an oversight (kind of like the SEC) to manage for profit insurance companies bad practices
5. I dont think drug costs/best practices/efficiency is a bad thing and a bipartisan congressional committee to review yearly to push into some sort of SEC like oversight jurisdiction would be a good thing to control services and costs.
obviously the preexisting and capping costs etc is necessary but Steve I do think you hit on something about how politicized this has become and both sides are maneuvering probably for pork to be added into this bill..... bs
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