Lerner in the Tunnel
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Mark, it's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. Six of the eight games we've played so far have been non-competitive blowouts. 1999 wasn't that long ago to still remember those stinkers, and OBR has us rated worse in 17 of 22 statistical categories than an expansion team. Wouldn't you agree the talent level of the 2009 Browns is way better than the 1999 edition? The it only leaves one explanation- it's the coaching.
Makes me want to give Krispy Kreme a call to stop making those Coors Lite commercials, and sit in as interim coach for the rest of the year- we're still paying him- make him earn it.
I know that we're getting blown out and the offense is in shambles...I would think that's how he saves the rest of the season for himself, maybe it's Dabol who is let go, but then who calls the plays?
I know that we're getting blown out and the offense is in shambles...I would think that's how he saves the rest of the season for himself, maybe it's Dabol who is let go, but then who calls the plays?
I'm also thinking Dabol's history
As far as calling plays? This guys been so bad ,anybody would be an upgrade,but my guess would be Carl Smith
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It really is too late now for the offense now. I hate to say it but the way we are even Daunte Stallworth seems like a major upgrade in WR position ! Mangini just blew up what little talent we had. I have only one question. Is JJ still around and can he still play enough to be a stop gap one year solution ? Our passing game passed away !!!!
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I cannot imagine pulling the plug on Mangini after 8 games...but maybe he does. Only Randy knows for sure. I will be shocked if Anderson starts the monday night game against Baltimore though.
Mark, it's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. Six of the eight games we've played so far have been non-competitive blowouts. 1999 wasn't that long ago to still remember those stinkers, and OBR has us rated worse in 17 of 22 statistical categories than an expansion team. Wouldn't you agree the talent level of the 2009 Browns is way better than the 1999 edition? The it only leaves one explanation- it's the coaching.
Makes me want to give Krispy Kreme a call to stop making those Coors Lite commercials, and sit in as interim coach for the rest of the year- we're still paying him- make him earn it.
Mark, it's not that we're losing, it's how we're losing. Six of the eight games we've played so far have been non-competitive blowouts. 1999 wasn't that long ago to still remember those stinkers, and OBR has us rated worse in 17 of 22 statistical categories than an expansion team. Wouldn't you agree the talent level of the 2009 Browns is way better than the 1999 edition? The it only leaves one explanation- it's the coaching.
Makes me want to give Krispy Kreme a call to stop making those Coors Lite commercials, and sit in as interim coach for the rest of the year- we're still paying him- make him earn it.
I've been hearing fire the OC, bench the QB and fire the Head Coach since 1999.
Guess what happens when you have the WRONG business owner? The people you replace all those other scapegoats with don't end up looking any different than the previous ones. That being the case, we're partying like it's 1999.
I lost count of how many QBs were going to upgrade the previous starter. I'm certain it rivals how many new offensive coordinators were going to upgrade the previous ones though.
At what point do we conceptualize there isn't 1 easy fix for an atrocious ownership that's pretending to act in the best interest of the fans in Cleveland.
Folks, there's more to this than telling me Randy opens his wallet to pay high salaries. It's not like Cleveland fans aren't fattening that wallet and inheritance. What he doesn't do is place the RIGHT priority on the Cleveland Browns. The FREAKIN lip service should have ended 4 years ago and he should have invested the time to ask a management WHO is going to score TDs for this team. Something THAT simple for his businnes that doesn't have 1 RB in 2009 with a rushing TD or 1 WR in his business with a TD reception. If I didn't see Derek Anderson throwing almost 30 TD pases in 2007 - or Quinn struggling to get our offense past the 50 yard line in the first 10 quarters of football - I'd put more stock in everything is gonna change for ther better the split second Dumb Ass takes a seat.
I've tried to get excited for EVERY game. Before today's game - I thought I better do a Flugel's Keys to the Game today so I could help others try to find some positives to get excited about. I centered all my excitement around running the ball and saw some great holes in replays today that didn't disappoint me. Do you know - I couldn't bring myself to mention 1 legitimate receiving weapon we have on this roster that I was excited about watching? This might be the worst set of TEs and WRs I've ever seen makign at least 6 digit salaries in Cleveland.
Folks, if we don't have the RIGHT owner - what makes you think firing Mangini means Lerner will hire the right Head Coach & GM tandem all of a sudden? That's the freakin problem! He's telling people 10 years into it that he WANTS to run a better business and he's open to suggestions? Really Randy? How about you only owning 1 professional Sports franchise on THIS side of the Atlantic Ocean? This franchise should be owned by someone that makes it their #1 passion. I've never gotten the sense that Randy makes the Browns even close to top priority or he'd be here demanding there's player in his business that can score TDs on Sunday. He's had quite a bit of time to learn about the draft and how personnel is scouted and evaluated. How much do you think the Glazers knew about football when they bought the Tampa Bay Bucs? Do they have a Superbowl Championship to their name today? Guess what????? It doesn't matter if our line opens HUGE holes or which QB starts because we don't have anyone employed that has proven they can score NFL TDs with any degree of consistency.
- Tom F.
I welcome the only Defensive Coordinator to earn a Superbowl Ring in New Orleans while understanding Revenge of the Nerds is a sequel. "Come get some!" -
I hope he didn't do this because he is trying to show the fans that he cares.
You can talk a lot about play calling but it comes down to execution, winning your battles on every play. Was watching a game yesterday where the colts running back threw a long option pass. "What a great play call" Well if the ball had been underthrown or the running back was hit as he threw the ball it would have been considered a bad play call. The difference between a lot of productive and non productive plays is execution
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It really is too late now for the offense now. I hate to say it but the way we are even Daunte Stallworth seems like a major upgrade in WR position ! Mangini just blew up what little talent we had. I have only one question. Is JJ still around and can he still play enough to be a stop gap one year solution ? Our passing game passed away !!!!
It really is too late now for the offense now. I hate to say it but the way we are even Daunte Stallworth seems like a major upgrade in WR position ! Mangini just blew up what little talent we had. I have only one question. Is JJ still around and can he still play enough to be a stop gap one year solution ? Our passing game passed away !!!!
Marvin Harrison IS still around with alot less health issues. Guess what we'd have to give up to get Harrison? Nobody!
That said, I'm watching a bunch of guys that can't run good routes or get speration on the rare occasions our QB can get the ball to the them. This is the worst passing game I've seen the browns have since i started breathing 45 years ago. If it was as simple as yanking Dumb Ass, my 2010 salary we would have accomplished somethign during the 1st 3 weeks. Unfortunately, I was trying to count how many times Quinn led us past the 50 yard line and it was pathetic even when he completed all those 2 yard passes on 3rd and 7. When you go 6 of 8 and the chains don't move once - HOW GOOD are you really doing?
- Tom F. (Our owner doesn't know why we drafted Quinn so we could train another QB instead for 3 years of inevitable QB controversy. Don't blame the Coach or the OC - blame the owner that doesn't know why he's paying 2 QBs starting pay in successive seasons his team isn't winning)
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I don't believe the guy is as dumb as some of you suggest.
What has he done, Stan, to make you believe otherwise?
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
It's not necessarily a matter of spending millions of dollars, Larry. I believe - somewhere deep down - some common sense or rudimentary intelligence comes into play. I believe we are dealing with a dumb David Model but that is another post for another time.
Lerner may or may not get angry because he spends all those dollars but the $Billion TV contract and franchise appreciation isn't too hard to take.
In short, I believe the owner is a numb skull.
He may be John, but really? Aston Villa seems to be doing at least mediocre. Dan Snyder ain't exactly a genius in my book, neither is Mike Brown. Al Davis should be declared legally dead, Ralph Wilson ain't far behind. Lerner sure don't have the lock on stupidity.
He may be John, but really? Aston Villa seems to be doing at least mediocre. Dan Snyder ain't exactly a genius in my book, neither is Mike Brown. Al Davis should be declared legally dead, Ralph Wilson ain't far behind. Lerner sure don't have the lock on stupidity.
OK, Larry, throw in David..............I mean, Randy into the mix of guys you identified.
Think back to 1996 - 1999, is this what you hoped for - an owner in the bottom 10% in the capability department?
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What has he done, Stan, to make you believe otherwise?
He had a lot of business fall on his lap after daddy died and he has held his own. So, the Browns are an embarrassment? I bet you that the Browns are less than 10% of his families wealth. He's now embarrassed at cocktail parties so he has to clean up this little side business. But stupid? no.
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Grinder said:
Why and how can anyone get pissed, these tards put me to sleep every sunday.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I was pissed because we wasted a decent defensive effort.
Even knowing that we are offensive on offense, and our defense has resembled a sieve most of the season, it was a winnable game.
Karlis Missed -
What has he done, Stan, to make you believe otherwise?
He had a lot of business fall on his lap after daddy died and he has held his own. So, the Browns are an embarrassment? I bet you that the Browns are less than 10% of his families wealth. He's now embarrassed at cocktail parties so he has to clean up this little side business. But stupid? no.
He had a lot of business fall on his lap after daddy died and he has held his own. So, the Browns are an embarrassment? I bet you that the Browns are less than 10% of his families wealth. He's now embarrassed at cocktail parties so he has to clean up this little side business. But stupid? no.
You didn't answer my question, Stan, but that is OK. It was kind of rhetorical any way.
The Browns are worth about $1B. That is far more than the family's net worth. But those are side issues.
He SHOULD be embarrassed and maybe, just maybe that will motivate him to reevaluate his entire organization. Not sure he is bright enough to do that or hire the right people.
Sometimes people are just plumb lucky to be born into a rich family.
At best, I consider him to be on par with David Modell. Just MHO, though.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
I don't blame Lerner nearly as much as some you want to.
I'm not on the Mangini bandwagon by any means, but the guy has been around the league a long time and I am sure he has some Idea on how a productive team is ran and coached. I think he has the right mind set. But give him some time. It took Belichick learning what he did wrong in Cleveland to polish up and become a good coach. Hopefully Mangini learned those lessons from "Hoody".
Someone mentioned execution. Absolutely. Players are dropping passes, making poor passes, missing tackles, missing assignments, missing routes, fumbling etc., The only thing I saw yesterday that was a positive was the defense. I will say I like the pressure they put on the QB.
To bad our offense is just offensive. The play calling is, IMO, bad. Daboll needs to go. 2 OC's were fired just before the season started, and there should have been 3 let go IMO. We have talent wasting away on the sidelines (jerome harrison), and now a JL is goign to retire at the end of the year. IMO, he's done, get Harrison the ball, and let him run. Jamal isn't going to give us 100% this year.
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I don't blame Lerner nearly as much as some you want to.
I'm not on the Mangini bandwagon by any means, but the guy has been around the league a long time and I am sure he has some Idea on how a productive team is ran and coached. I think he has the right mind set. But give him some time. It took Belichick learning what he did wrong in Cleveland to polish up and become a good coach. Hopefully Mangini learned those lessons from "Hoody".
Someone mentioned execution. Absolutely. Players are dropping passes, making poor passes, missing tackles, missing assignments, missing routes, fumbling etc., The only thing I saw yesterday that was a positive was the defense. I will say I like the pressure they put on the QB.
To bad our offense is just offensive. The play calling is, IMO, bad. Daboll needs to go. 2 OC's were fired just before the season started, and there should have been 3 let go IMO. We have talent wasting away on the sidelines (jerome harrison), and now a JL is goign to retire at the end of the year. IMO, he's done, get Harrison the ball, and let him run. Jamal isn't going to give us 100% this year.
Someone mentioned execution.
To paraphrase the late John McKay, "I support that 100%".
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He had a lot of business fall on his lap after daddy died and he has held his own. So, the Browns are an embarrassment? I bet you that the Browns are less than 10% of his families wealth. He's now embarrassed at cocktail parties so he has to clean up this little side business. But stupid? no.
You didn't answer my question, Stan, but that is OK. It was kind of rhetorical any way.
The Browns are worth about $1B. That is far more than the family's net worth. But those are side issues.
He SHOULD be embarrassed and maybe, just maybe that will motivate him to reevaluate his entire organization. Not sure he is bright enough to do that or hire the right people.
Sometimes people are just plumb lucky to be born into a rich family.
At best, I consider him to be on par with David Modell. Just MHO, though.
You didn't answer my question, Stan, but that is OK. It was kind of rhetorical any way.
The Browns are worth about $1B. That is far more than the family's net worth. But those are side issues.
He SHOULD be embarrassed and maybe, just maybe that will motivate him to reevaluate his entire organization. Not sure he is bright enough to do that or hire the right people.
Sometimes people are just plumb lucky to be born into a rich family.
At best, I consider him to be on par with David Modell. Just MHO, though.
David Modell was a greedy little shit.
Randy has a very good education. The guy could have sold the naming rights to the stadium over the yaers to the tune of over $10-mil ... along this same line, he also will forego traditional jersey sponsorship for Aston Villa, which is nowadays a very lucrative sponsorship, by instead wearing on their shirts the name of a local children's hospice, Acorns.
He seems into int for the right reason's, trying to hire the right football people and be a silent owner. He's not trying to find a new way to slap a nike logo on the jersey or compete for the largest advertising score board, naming rights, changing the team colors to sell more merchandise and all that other bullshit that goes along with modern owners.
Cut the guy some slack. I believe Ernie Accorsi was the driving force behind us hiring Mangini and Kokinis. He has brought in intelligent local football analyst who seem to have the heart connected to this team, in Bernie Kosar.
How are any of the above similar to David Modell?
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You didn't answer my question, Stan, but that is OK. It was kind of rhetorical any way.
The Browns are worth about $1B. That is far more than the family's net worth. But those are side issues.
He SHOULD be embarrassed and maybe, just maybe that will motivate him to reevaluate his entire organization. Not sure he is bright enough to do that or hire the right people.
Sometimes people are just plumb lucky to be born into a rich family.
At best, I consider him to be on par with David Modell. Just MHO, though.
David Modell was a greedy little shit.
Randy has a very good education. The guy could have sold the naming rights to the stadium over the yaers to the tune of over $10-mil ... along this same line, he also will forego traditional jersey sponsorship for Aston Villa, which is nowadays a very lucrative sponsorship, by instead wearing on their shirts the name of a local children's hospice, Acorns.
He seems into int for the right reason's, trying to hire the right football people and be a silent owner. He's not trying to find a new way to slap a nike logo on the jersey or compete for the largest advertising score board, naming rights, changing the team colors to sell more merchandise and all that other bullshit that goes along with modern owners.
Cut the guy some slack. I believe Ernie Accorsi was the driving force behind us hiring Mangini and Kokinis. He has brought in intelligent local football analyst who seem to have the heart connected to this team, in Bernie Kosar.
How are any of the above similar to David Modell?
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You didn't answer my question, Stan, but that is OK. It was kind of rhetorical any way.
The Browns are worth about $1B. That is far more than the family's net worth. But those are side issues.
He SHOULD be embarrassed and maybe, just maybe that will motivate him to reevaluate his entire organization. Not sure he is bright enough to do that or hire the right people.
Sometimes people are just plumb lucky to be born into a rich family.
At best, I consider him to be on par with David Modell. Just MHO, though.
David Modell was a greedy little shit.
Randy has a very good education. The guy could have sold the naming rights to the stadium over the yaers to the tune of over $10-mil ... along this same line, he also will forego traditional jersey sponsorship for Aston Villa, which is nowadays a very lucrative sponsorship, by instead wearing on their shirts the name of a local children's hospice, Acorns.
He seems into int for the right reason's, trying to hire the right football people and be a silent owner. He's not trying to find a new way to slap a nike logo on the jersey or compete for the largest advertising score board, naming rights, changing the team colors to sell more merchandise and all that other bullshit that goes along with modern owners.
Cut the guy some slack. I believe Ernie Accorsi was the driving force behind us hiring Mangini and Kokinis. He has brought in intelligent local football analyst who seem to have the heart connected to this team, in Bernie Kosar.
How are any of the above similar to David Modell?
How are any of the above similar to David Modell?
This might be a silly benchmark to some but I like to focus on objective measures like W-L.
Daddy bought the team and he inherited it.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
Grinder said:
Why and how can anyone get pissed, these tards put me to sleep every sunday.zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, I was pissed because we wasted a decent defensive effort.
Even knowing that we are offensive on offense, and our defense has resembled a sieve most of the season, it was a winnable game.
Well, I was pissed because we wasted a decent defensive effort.
Even knowing that we are offensive on offense, and our defense has resembled a sieve most of the season, it was a winnable game.
I realize things tend to get away late in games, but we did give up 31 points.
17-20 points is decent.
If you went in to the season knowing your D was going to give up 31 a game, you wouldn't expect to see many wins.
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Well, I was pissed because we wasted a decent defensive effort.
Even knowing that we are offensive on offense, and our defense has resembled a sieve most of the season, it was a winnable game.
I realize things tend to get away late in games, but we did give up 31 points.
17-20 points is decent.
If you went in to the season knowing your D was going to give up 31 a game, you wouldn't expect to see many wins.
I realize things tend to get away late in games, but we did give up 31 points.
17-20 points is decent.
If you went in to the season knowing your D was going to give up 31 a game, you wouldn't expect to see many wins.
I meant that in yesterday's game, most NFL teams would have capitalized on a good defensive effort. I think we all know that the "D" gave it their all vs. Chicago, and our minor league offense let us down.
I'm hoping Bernie has some sort of influence on our offense's direction soon, so Mangini can concentrate on his supposed area of expertise- defense. Daboll looks like a short-timer, & maybe will be canned today.
12 draft picks in 2010 should be enough to make us competitive, & fix many of our personnel woes.
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This might be a silly benchmark to some but I like to focus on objective measures like W-L.
Then how do you explain the Roonies thirty years of losing? Or that Al Davis has won it all before?
Daddy bought the team and he inherited it.
So? Georgia Frontiere inherited the Rams after her husband 'swam with the fishes', she still got lucky with the right combination.
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This might be a silly benchmark to some but I like to focus on objective measures like W-L.
Then how do you explain the Roonies thirty years of losing? Or that Al Davis has won it all before?
Daddy bought the team and he inherited it.
So? Georgia Frontiere inherited the Rams after her husband 'swam with the fishes', she still got lucky with the right combination.
Then how do you explain the Roonies thirty years of losing? Or that Al Davis has won it all before?
I'm not that patient, Stan. Maybe you are but you really aren't, are you?
So? Georgia Frontiere inherited the Rams after her husband 'swam with the fishes', she still got lucky with the right combination.
The right combination = 'luck of the draw"? I can live with this being your trust in Randy.
Besides, this conversation isn't going anywhere.
Jump Randy.
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