Kokinis got schooled
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Awesome...we have someone to block opposing nt's in the afc north(woohoo).... we have 4 Td's this year. no skill positions worth crap....again!
Well, given that the AFC North is well-known for it's stifling defense, I'd say that's a pretty great thing to have. If that doesn't prove anything, how about Casey Hampton is a 4 time Pro Bowl NT with 258 tackles and 5.5 sacks in his 9 year career and Haloti has 94 tackles, 4 sacks, and an INT in two years and is considered to be one of the best defensive lineman in the NFL. The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about.
Well, given that the AFC North is well-known for it's stifling defense, I'd say that's a pretty great thing to have. If that doesn't prove anything, how about Casey Hampton is a 4 time Pro Bowl NT with 258 tackles and 5.5 sacks in his 9 year career and Haloti has 94 tackles, 4 sacks, and an INT in two years and is considered to be one of the best defensive lineman in the NFL. The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about.
recap for the football impaired....Justin Hartwig=6th round(pitt), Matt Birk=6th round(balt), Kyle cook= undrafted(cincy)...the three other teams in the afc north...rothlisberger,ward,mendenhall....flacco, rice, mcGahee...., palmer, ocho, benson.....
FAIL!
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quick look at past probowlers@ center...nick hardwick 3rd round (1 pro bowl), Olin kreutz 3rd round(7 probowls), Kevin Mawae ,2nd round drafted as guard,(6 probowls), Tom Nalen 7th round (4 pro bowls) matt birk 6th round(4probowls), Jeff christy 4th round(4 probowls)jeff saturdau 2 pro bowl(undrafted) on and on and on......STOOOPID to take in first round
P.S. your Dad should have pulled out!
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So what you're telling me is that we could have picked Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, and Rashard Mendenhall, or Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, and Willis McGahee, or Carson Palmer, Chad Ochocinco, and Cedric Benson with the pick that we used for Alex Mack? Well shit, I guess we did make a terrible decision.
Your argument is stupid. Sure, we could have picked up any skill player in that pick, but a fat lot of good it does when your QB doesn't have enough time to even throw the ball. The line is the most important part of rebuilding an offense, and if you can't understand that, then there's really no point in this lame argument.
EDIT: Oh, and nice line about my dad pulling out. That was very classy, and extremely clever. I can't believe I never thought of that one.
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So what you're telling me is that we could have picked Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, and Rashard Mendenhall, or Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, and Willis McGahee, or Carson Palmer, Chad Ochocinco, and Cedric Benson with the pick that we used for Alex Mack? Well shit, I guess we did make a terrible decision.
Your argument is stupid. Sure, we could have picked up any skill player in that pick, but a fat lot of good it does when your QB doesn't have enough time to even throw the ball. The line is the most important part of rebuilding an offense, and if you can't understand that, then there's really no point in this lame argument.
EDIT: Oh, and nice line about my dad pulling out. That was very classy, and extremely clever. I can't believe I never thought of that one.
So what you're telling me is that we could have picked Ben Roethlisberger, Hines Ward, and Rashard Mendenhall, or Joe Flacco, Ray Rice, and Willis McGahee, or Carson Palmer, Chad Ochocinco, and Cedric Benson with the pick that we used for Alex Mack? Well shit, I guess we did make a terrible decision.
Your argument is stupid. Sure, we could have picked up any skill player in that pick, but a fat lot of good it does when your QB doesn't have enough time to even throw the ball. The line is the most important part of rebuilding an offense, and if you can't understand that, then there's really no point in this lame argument.
EDIT: Oh, and nice line about my dad pulling out. That was very classy, and extremely clever. I can't believe I never thought of that one.
you have a no clue what my argument is about...if that's your rebuttal...shortbus
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sorry for you....
Sorry for me? I don't understand why. Essentially everybody I've seen has agreed that our draft was pretty good. Sure, it could have been better. But what if we had gone for Maualuga and then he turned out to be the world's biggest shithead? Then you'd be chastising EM for reaching for him, even though his stock dropped significantly. You aren't going to be happy no matter what. I've said it once before and I will say it again- You are nothing but a douchebag who completely resents differing opinions. Maybe you should be our HC, since you are so well-qualified. I'm sure we won't go wrong there.
Essentially everybody I've seen has agreed that our draft was pretty good.
It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi).
And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good.
It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player.
Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade.
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It is way too early to try to judge the draft class.
It takes about 3 years to get a accurate read.
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Essentially everybody I've seen has agreed that our draft was pretty good.
It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi).
And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good.
It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player.
Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade.
It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi).
And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good.
It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player.
Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade.
That's what I was trying to say about Mack. It was obvious that he was that good, so why not pick him up. His talent warranted a first round pick. And I wasn't saying that the players themselves were "pretty good". I just think that the draft itself was pretty good. We turned a minimal amount of picks into more, and got some depth in the LB and WR position. That's just the way I see it. I think EM focused more on depth with the later picks in this draft, and is going to use the next draft to pick best player available.
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It's too early to judge the draft, but "pretty good" wouldn't be how I'd describe the early returns. We're only getting significant contributions from two of our eight picks, with one of them regressing a bit from his early season success (Massaquoi).
And while I don't agree with the "shortbus center in the 1st round" argument, you can't give the new regime that much credit for hitting with Mack. If you're taking a center that high, it's got to be obvious that he's good.
It's like taking a punter in the mid-rounds: you're only going to do it if the talent level warrants a major hit, not just a decent player.
Until we see major contributions from Robiskie and Veikune, I wouldn't give this draft a high grade.
That's what I was trying to say about Mack. It was obvious that he was that good, so why not pick him up. His talent warranted a first round pick. And I wasn't saying that the players themselves were "pretty good". I just think that the draft itself was pretty good. We turned a minimal amount of picks into more, and got some depth in the LB and WR position. That's just the way I see it. I think EM focused more on depth with the later picks in this draft, and is going to use the next draft to pick best player available.
That's what I was trying to say about Mack. It was obvious that he was that good, so why not pick him up. His talent warranted a first round pick.
Because it's not a position where marginal improvement yields significant rewards.
If your starting center's getting bulldozed by nose tackles, then yes: adding a functional center will have a significant impact. But I don't think the difference between a solid B center and an A- center is as huge as it is at other positions.
In our case, we may have been desperate enough for a functional center that taking one in the 1st made a lot of sense. But we also could have pursued one in free agency, had Mangini & Ko been interested.
And I wasn't saying that the players themselves were "pretty good". I just think that the draft itself was pretty good. We turned a minimal amount of picks into more, and got some depth in the LB and WR position.
If you're saying that you like the draft strategy, that's fine. But I'm crazy enough to think that I can predict which LB's and WR's will be able to help us. And Solon's the same way.
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i listed the pro-bowlers at center since 99'.... and I listed the three other centers in our division(who have to face these dominant Nt's) in our division.....Birk= 6th round, hartwig=6th round,kyle= undrafted....they have three QB's taken in the first round...and 6th round centers or beyond.....we have a 1st round center and a 6th round Qb..... brilliant strategy don't ya think? yeah your right stupid argument....
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Lmao!!! Just read through the majority of this thread since I missed it in April. For sanity's sake (yours, not mine) I do my best to avoid the board during the offseason. Too much time on my hands to think the worst. No point in making everybody else nuts the same time I'm rocking back and forth in my lil corner.
I would be way out in left field if I was posting in April.
Delonte would look sane next to me.Excited to watch the game tonight! 8:15 start for me. Got the kid til 8. Don't want to give her nightmares.
This is why FAN is short for FANATICAL...
0-3 start.
New coach that some of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
New OC that most of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
Owner that most of us wish would sell the team.
Year 3 of the DA/BQ saga.
$1701 fines for water.
tempers in the locker room.
More grievances filed with the league than touchdowns scored.
AND here I sit... antsy. Butterflies. I can't wait to watch the game!!!!!!
Lmao!!! Just read through the majority of this thread since I missed it in April. For sanity's sake (yours, not mine) I do my best to avoid the board during the offseason. Too much time on my hands to think the worst. No point in making everybody else nuts the same time I'm rocking back and forth in my lil corner.
I would be way out in left field if I was posting in April.
Delonte would look sane next to me.Excited to watch the game tonight! 8:15 start for me. Got the kid til 8. Don't want to give her nightmares.
This is why FAN is short for FANATICAL...
0-3 start.
New coach that some of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
New OC that most of us wouldn't mind if his head rolled all ready.
Owner that most of us wish would sell the team.
Year 3 of the DA/BQ saga.
$1701 fines for water.
tempers in the locker room.
More grievances filed with the league than touchdowns scored.
AND here I sit... antsy. Butterflies. I can't wait to watch the game!!!!!!
good stuff!!
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i listed the pro-bowlers at center since 99'.... and I listed the three other centers in our division(who have to face these dominant Nt's) in our division.....Birk= 6th round, hartwig=6th round,kyle= undrafted....they have three QB's taken in the first round...and 6th round centers or beyond.....we have a 1st round center and a 6th round Qb..... brilliant strategy don't ya think? yeah your right stupid argument....
i listed the pro-bowlers at center since 99'
I don't think you provided the complete list. I'll include it below.
First thing that stands out: Kevin Mawae's been dominating the Pro Bowl ballot for some time now. And being the 36th pick in the '94 draft, he was drafted just fifteen picks later than Mack.
If Mawae had gone at Mack's spot, do you think that would have been a dumb pick? And would a drop down fifteen spots make you suddenly okay with picking Mack?
Also, it's worth noting that Mawae's set to be displaced by a guy picked higher than him: Nick Mangold at #29. It seems like that's the direction we're heading in. Hopefully, Mack will make it #21.
2009:
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Nick Mangold - 1st round (#29)
- Casey Wigmann - UDFA
- Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37)
- Shaun O'Hara - UDFA
- Jeff Saturday - UDFA
- Dan Koppen - 5th round (#164)
- Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Jeff Saturday - UDFA
- Nick Hardwick - 3rd round (#66)
- Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Andre Gurode - 2nd round (#37)
- Jeff Saturday - UDFA
- Jeff Hartings - 1st round (#23)
- LeCharles Bentley - 2nd round (#44)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Jeff Hartings - 1st round (#23)
- Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218)
- Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Mike Flanagan - 3rd round (#90)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Barrett Robbins - 2nd round (#49)
- Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64)
- Jeremy Newberry - 2nd round (#58)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Bruce Matthews - 1st round (#9)
- Olin Kreutz - 3rd round (#64)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Jeremy Newberry - 2nd round (#58)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Tim Ruddy - 2nd round (#65)
- Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91)
- Matt Birk - 6th round (#173)
- Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91)
- Tony Mayberry - 4th round (#109)
- Kevin Mawae - 2nd round (#36)
- Tim Grunhard - 2nd round (#40)
- Jeff Christy - 4th round (#91)
- Tony Mayberry - 4th round (#109)
- Tom Nalen - 7th round (#218)
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Prepare to be called a Retard.
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Alo...point is...a overwhelming majority of Probowl centers go after 2nd round...and mawae was a guard that converted to Center...at least that is what NFL draft history has! Anyway...cincy,Pitt and Balt have 1st round QB's and a 6th round or later Center...we have a first round center and a 6th round pick as Qb...go figure. The VALID point I make is (to shortbus') we need a 1st round center to block the big bad NT's in our division while the other three teams have (2) 6th rounders and a UDFA...So in my opinion and it will never change...You should NEVER take a Center with the first round pick...it is fking stupid and always will be ...to me!
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quick look at past probowlers@ center...nick hardwick 3rd round (1 pro bowl), Olin kreutz 3rd round(7 probowls), Kevin Mawae ,2nd round drafted as guard,(6 probowls), Tom Nalen 7th round (4 pro bowls) matt birk 6th round(4probowls), Jeff christy 4th round(4 probowls)jeff saturdau 2 pro bowl(undrafted) on and on and on......STOOOPID to take in first round
P.S. your Dad should have pulled out!
quick look at past probowlers@ center...nick hardwick 3rd round (1 pro bowl), Olin kreutz 3rd round(7 probowls), Kevin Mawae ,2nd round drafted as guard,(6 probowls), Tom Nalen 7th round (4 pro bowls) matt birk 6th round(4probowls), Jeff christy 4th round(4 probowls)jeff saturdau 2 pro bowl(undrafted) on and on and on......STOOOPID to take in first round
P.S. your Dad should have pulled out!
""The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about."'
pitt 6th round center, balt 6th round center, Cincy undrafted center...... not downplaying the "tremendous" defense in the AFc north...simply pointing out that all the other team don't share your opinion on spending 1st round picks on centers... so you telling me for nth time I'm a douchebag and have no idea what i'm talking about...is well....not correct. In fact I proved that throughout the last ten years...probowlers are lower round centers!
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quick look at past probowlers@ center...nick hardwick 3rd round (1 pro bowl), Olin kreutz 3rd round(7 probowls), Kevin Mawae ,2nd round drafted as guard,(6 probowls), Tom Nalen 7th round (4 pro bowls) matt birk 6th round(4probowls), Jeff christy 4th round(4 probowls)jeff saturdau 2 pro bowl(undrafted) on and on and on......STOOOPID to take in first round
P.S. your Dad should have pulled out!
""The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about."'
pitt 6th round center, balt 6th round center, Cincy undrafted center...... not downplaying the "tremendous" defense in the AFc north...simply pointing out that all the other team don't share your opinion on spending 1st round picks on centers... so you telling me for nth time I'm a douchebag and have no idea what i'm talking about...is well....not correct. In fact I proved that throughout the last ten years...probowlers are lower round centers!
""The fact that you are downplaying the tremendous defense of the AFC North just proves that you honestly have no idea what you are talking about."'
pitt 6th round center, balt 6th round center, Cincy undrafted center...... not downplaying the "tremendous" defense in the AFc north...simply pointing out that all the other team don't share your opinion on spending 1st round picks on centers... so you telling me for nth time I'm a douchebag and have no idea what i'm talking about...is well....not correct. In fact I proved that throughout the last ten years...probowlers are lower round centers!
You proved that some Pro Bowlers are lower round centers. Whereas I, as well as Alo, have proved that some Pro Bowlers are 1st and 2nd round centers. Pittsburgh was interested in Mack, so they obviously felt he could start for them and replace Hartwig. Yes, the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens make due with their centers who were picked in the lower rounds. That doesn't mean those centers play phenomenally for them, they could give up a massive amount of sacks. I don't know, and I'm not going to look it up. The point I was trying to make was that, in a rebuild, which WE are currently in, picking up a good center can go a very long way. The Steelers and Ravens don't have to worry about that, because they have never had to experience a rebuild. Comparing our methods to their methods is completely useless, they have the talent to pick up best player available no matter what. We have not had that luxury.
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If Mawae had gone at Mack's spot, do you think that would have been a dumb pick? And would a drop down fifteen spots make you suddenly okay with picking Mack?
Also, it's worth noting that Mawae's set to be displaced by a guy picked higher than him: Nick Mangold at #29. It seems like that's the direction we're heading in. Hopefully, Mack will make it #21.
Umm yes to first question.....I'never advocate taking a center with first pick(horrid) EVER! And to take a Center that high I absolutely expect mack to be on this list 7 times Min....
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I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you ever played or coached football at a level higher than Pop Warner?
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I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you ever played or coached football at a level higher than Pop Warner?
I'm not trying to be a dick, but have you ever played or coached football at a level higher than Pop Warner?
I was all-conference in HS. at monsterback...never coached too slow to play at div 1 and wasn't going to play for Baldwin wallace or case western if I couldn't play for the buckeyes...and have followed football since i was 6...now 41....and have watched every draft since it's been televised. and you don't need to try...you are.
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compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!!
Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would
compared to what NE got...and the other trades...kokinis got schooled especially in regard to Sanchez trade...a second rounder and a saftey& two backups? The Rookie showed his colors today...we got a 6th for tampa movin up to 17...short changed...a 6th for phily movin up to 19....Ne gets a 5th for baltimore to move up to 23.... schooled!!!
Would you rather have Maclin, Rey, (massaqua) and rashard johnson??/ i sure as hell would
Well I guess if Lerner's to be believed Kokinis wasn't the one behind this move - and Lerner thinks that Mangini's draft decisions and perssonell moves and coaching are NOT the problem.
Man - I feel sorry for you guys.
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