Grudens Take on the Browns
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Pass. http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php...st&p=136580
11-5, 9-7, and 9-7 is mediocre? What about the Defense? And a superbowl, you are high.
11-5, 9-7, and 9-7 is mediocre? What about the Defense? And a superbowl, you are high.
2003 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 7 9 (9th Offensively)
2004 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 5 11 (22nd Offensively)
2005 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 11 5 (24th Offensively)
2006 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 4 12 (29th Offensively)
2007 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (18th Offensively)
2008 Tampa Bay Buccaneers 9 7 (13th Offensively)
2006-2008 = 22-26
Mangini with Jets:
2006 10-6
2007 4-12
2008 9-7
2006-208 = 23-25
The Superbowl was in 2002. Since then, as a coach, Gruden is 45-51. He NEVER developed a young QB. The Bucs were a talented 9-7 playoff team in 2001. They played in the toughest division in football that year with the Bears (13-3) and Packers (12-4). Their schedule was brutal. They had been 10-6 the year before.
The team that Mangini inherited in NY was 4-12 and near the bottom in every statistical category.
Take away the SB (and for SB winning coaches I rate Billick and Gruden on the same level), and I just don't see any trend that says Gruden is the guy for the job.
The defenses you mention were Monte Kiffin's. And they were the reason Gruden had any success. Gruden's supposed to be an offensive mastermind . . . like Billick.
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Gruden 2010!
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Look at the Bucs this year compared to last year.
If Mangini were fired I would want Gruden.
Look at the Bucs this year compared to last year.
If Mangini were fired I would want Gruden.
No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
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Look at the Bucs this year compared to last year.
If Mangini were fired I would want Gruden.
No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
I like Gruden very much as a coach but I will admit that while he can spot QB talent, he seems to fall in love with the "QB-du-jour" and is frequently changing QBs. If I might ask (for instance) what did Chris Simms do to deserve falling out of favor so quickly? I was never much of a Simms fan but he was one dropped pass away from rallying his team to a playoff win against the Redskins a few years back and the guy left it all out there. Literally. He lost a spleen. Next thing you know, this guy is an afterthought...a fourth QB.
Even though Gruden won a Super Bowl, he did it with Tony Dungy's players. Still, he did have to manage and coach them. He just wasn't able to replicate that kind of success on his own.
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Look at the Bucs this year compared to last year.
If Mangini were fired I would want Gruden.
No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
They still finised 9-7 last year. Steaks happen sometimes.
Don't forget his work with the Raiders.
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If the answer is Gruden, we need to re-think the question.
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No Monte Kiffin, no Jeff Garcia and his 90ish passer rating QB play. Antonio Bryant injured and missing games.
No young QB EVER developed in Gruden's 6-year stint!
Daunte Culpepper followed by Josh Johnson, followed by the growing pains of a young QB.
It is easy to explain the record. They had a four game losing streak coming into the season, BTW.
Looks to me like they are turning a corner . . . and doing it while doing something Gruden NEVER did . . . breaking in a rookie QB.
They still finised 9-7 last year. Steaks happen sometimes.
Don't forget his work with the Raiders.
They still finised 9-7 last year. Steaks happen sometimes.
Don't forget his work with the Raiders.
And the Mangini Jets still finished with the same record.
Yeah, he had a good run with the Raiders. If that success would have continued, I'd be all over hiring Gruden . . . it didn't.
After his first year with the Bucs, Gruden became a losing NFL coach with losing records 3 out of the last 6 years and last place finishes 2 out of the last 6 years. He relied on an over-the-hill Jeff Garcia to salvage respectability in his last two seasons. His unwillingness to develop a young QB made his teams largely irrelevant when it came to legitimate contention. They were not legitimate contenders in 2007 and 2008 any more than was Butch Davis's 9-7 team or even Romeo's 10-6 team.
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Moot point. He's signed an extension with ESPN
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d8...mp;confirm=true
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we want chucky!!
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They still finised 9-7 last year. Steaks happen sometimes.
Don't forget his work with the Raiders.
And the Mangini Jets still finished with the same record.
Yeah, he had a good run with the Raiders. If that success would have continued, I'd be all over hiring Gruden . . . it didn't.
After his first year with the Bucs, Gruden became a losing NFL coach with losing records 3 out of the last 6 years and last place finishes 2 out of the last 6 years. He relied on an over-the-hill Jeff Garcia to salvage respectability in his last two seasons. His unwillingness to develop a young QB made his teams largely irrelevant when it came to legitimate contention. They were not legitimate contenders in 2007 and 2008 any more than was Butch Davis's 9-7 team or even Romeo's 10-6 team.
And the Mangini Jets still finished with the same record.
Yeah, he had a good run with the Raiders. If that success would have continued, I'd be all over hiring Gruden . . . it didn't.
After his first year with the Bucs, Gruden became a losing NFL coach with losing records 3 out of the last 6 years and last place finishes 2 out of the last 6 years. He relied on an over-the-hill Jeff Garcia to salvage respectability in his last two seasons. His unwillingness to develop a young QB made his teams largely irrelevant when it came to legitimate contention. They were not legitimate contenders in 2007 and 2008 any more than was Butch Davis's 9-7 team or even Romeo's 10-6 team.
You've made some good points Chip, but I still think I'd rather have Gruden calling the shots next year than Mangini. OK, if not Chuckie, then who? Marty's already on record he's not interested. The Chin will hold out for the Carolina job. Shanahan carries the same baggage as Gruden, and he's a lot older.
Right now the Browns are an absolute train wreck. IMHO there will have to be significant progress over the last half of the season for Mangini to save his job. Blowout losses tonight against the Ravens, and in a month against the Steelers, and Mangini is done.
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And the Mangini Jets still finished with the same record.
Yeah, he had a good run with the Raiders. If that success would have continued, I'd be all over hiring Gruden . . . it didn't.
After his first year with the Bucs, Gruden became a losing NFL coach with losing records 3 out of the last 6 years and last place finishes 2 out of the last 6 years. He relied on an over-the-hill Jeff Garcia to salvage respectability in his last two seasons. His unwillingness to develop a young QB made his teams largely irrelevant when it came to legitimate contention. They were not legitimate contenders in 2007 and 2008 any more than was Butch Davis's 9-7 team or even Romeo's 10-6 team.
You've made some good points Chip, but I still think I'd rather have Gruden calling the shots next year than Mangini. OK, if not Chuckie, then who? Marty's already on record he's not interested. The Chin will hold out for the Carolina job. Shanahan carries the same baggage as Gruden, and he's a lot older.
Right now the Browns are an absolute train wreck. IMHO there will have to be significant progress over the last half of the season for Mangini to save his job. Blowout losses tonight against the Ravens, and in a month against the Steelers, and Mangini is done.
You've made some good points Chip, but I still think I'd rather have Gruden calling the shots next year than Mangini. OK, if not Chuckie, then who? Marty's already on record he's not interested. The Chin will hold out for the Carolina job. Shanahan carries the same baggage as Gruden, and he's a lot older.
Right now the Browns are an absolute train wreck. IMHO there will have to be significant progress over the last half of the season for Mangini to save his job. Blowout losses tonight against the Ravens, and in a month against the Steelers, and Mangini is done.
I'd give Mangini more time. I think the point made by others that he really hasn't cut a useful player from last year's team and that we ended last year with an offense so inept that we went 6 games without a TD tells you why we shouldn't expect much more at this point.
Assuming that it is inevitable that he gets fired (for PR, to lure FA, etc.) I don't want to give the same control given Mangini to Cowher. He has no more GM experience and what I remember him for is getting his ass handed to him by Belicheck year after year in Cowher's house during the title game. Just flat out out-coached. Cowher was not the reason for that team's success.
I love Shanahan's offensive scheme. Paired with a strong D-coordinator and an independent GM, I'd be happy to see him here as a coach. I don't think he'll come to Cleveland.
If John Fox for some reason gets canned by Carolina, I'd give him a hard look paired with an excellent GM-type. I'd be okay with Holmgren coaching if he takes the GM job. I'm not thrilled with combining the job titles, but Holmgren has experience and success. It sounds like Holmgren wants to coach while grooming his successor. If he doesn't want to coach, he probably would want to bring in his own younger head coach who he already has a good working relationship with: Darrell Bevell (OC Minnesota).
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Cowher ? The only thing i will say about hiring spit face is ,|,, !
No hiring that guy please. Mangini with a new OC deserves a longer leash.
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