Another Rebuild
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If one isn't prepared they need an MRI taken of their cranium to prove there's a brain inside. I'll start with this - I couldn't give a crap if Mangini stays or sprays. I'm so sick of reading all the negativity about the guy.
Lerner's decision to look to Phil Savage has turned this team into the worst offensive team I've ever seen since I started breathing in 1964. Ever - period! The defense isn't bad to watch as long as they have a reason to play hard, which rarely lasts and they get tired from the lack of time of possession from our offense. Yuck!
Savage's ideas of Stallworth, Edwards, Fisk, Washington, Peek, Dilfer, DA, Quinn, Shaffer, Andruzzi, Corey Williams as well as his no day 1 drafts in a slim 2008 draft (5 picks deep) and leaving us only 4 draft picks for the 2009 draft has me infuriorated. How many dlinemen or olinemen have panned out from mid to late rounds in the draft besides one 3rd overall pick in the draft? Just an FYI for ANYONE bellyaching about Winslow's absence: the main reason Winslow wanted OUT of Cleveland is because of his experiences with Phil Savage. I hear all this bullshit about Wonderlics and Indy combine interviews and personal workouts and Savage decides Braylon Edwards is the "safest" pick at #3 overall. When he wasn't injured or bellyaching - he was dropping way too many catchable passes except the dream season of 2007 (and the miracle produced vrs the NY Giants 1 year later). Other than that, the media can't WAIT to see him take the Jets to places he couldn't ever get Michigan and us to. Good luck with that NY! They've lost 4 of 5 since he arrived after starting out 3-1 in his absence.
Think of Savage's absurd plan which included everything from starting us off with Trent Doofus as the starting QB with Charlie Frye on deck and DA in the hole was atrocious. Now add in we traded away 3 years of bullshit for a 1st round QB that can't even complete 1 pass over 10 yards. Most of those he couldn't even keep in bounds. Did anyone HEAR the announcers last night, which included 2 former QBs (1 was a former NFL OC and Head Coach)?
I honestly went into last night knowing we didn't have 1 receiver or TE that could do any damage to Baltimore's Defense. I also knew their D welcomed the slow and tired legs of Jamal. Okay, he had his 1 or 2 hard runs which met his weekly quota. I seriously hoped Rogers could cause a returnable fumble or Cribbs could score on a return. Instead, I got to watch the guy with the biggest heart on the team get carried off the field on a stretcher.
The LERNER family, not to be confused with 1 convenient scapegoat like an OC or Coach, has done the MOST damage. This might be the first franchise that got worse than they were as an expansion team. Perhaps that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't 10 years after the expansion season. Randy Lerner has KILLED every single rivalry we had and he's slowly sending the message "don't waste your time on this franchise" any more. Then again, if you enjoy getting kicked in the Adam's apple with steel toes week after week so you can tell people your a GOOD fan - God bless ya!
I honestly don't see enough decent talent to give ANY coaches an honest assessment. STs always seem good and we had Cribbs, Pontbriand and Zastudil - which was where we are most talented. We were the least penalized team at week 8 so that might have shown some degree of promise. That said, if you were in charge of playing chess with our offense - WHAT/WHOM do you attack the opponent with?
I've always wanted it to be as easy as firing the WRONG guy at Head Coach and hiring the RIGHT guy to replace him. What happens when the guy responsible for such an important decision doesn't have the first clue as to what consitutes a GOOD or BAD hire? I'm at the point of thinking this team remains buried until Lerner sells it. I've finally seen enough!
- Tom F.
1).You make alot of good points flugs....I like lerner as an owner...he coughs up the BIG bucks for everything (as opposed to the bidwell's of the past) , he isn't a freaking meddler like JJ and snyder, He wants to win and I believe that he has tried very hard to bring a winner(still paying savage,crennel and kokinis)(i think butch davis just got off the payroll this year)... Has paid Big money to Free agents to come hear(thanks phil),....that to me is a good owner....NOW as a decision maker???? Hmmm obviously weak and easily swayed....He won't give up tho and I like That! (i have no problem with lerner as an Owner)
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
3). This guy takes the fun out of football...in the end, the best players who give the greatest effort, who play football because they Love it with a passion, look forward to going to "work", Love the team concept, love the sacrifice for the team, strive to get better and play so as to not let down the coach/team, willing to run thru walls for the TEAM etc... I don't see Mangini inspiring ANY players. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it
4). my biggest problem is(and I don't know if it was KOk or not) the draft talent we passed up on on draft day and the guys we eventually got, the evaluation of (loads of talent) brought in to make us "better"RT,RG,Lb's Safety"(folks we were 4-12 last year!)(now worst team in all of football) and the handling(mismanagement) of current team (qb mess,league leader in grievances against) The whole "philosophy" of Taking a center Instead of say, Beanie Wells, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Machlin,michael oher,(insert your choice here). The second round"debachle" So far...(holy fk). I have lost complete trust in this guy as an evaluator of talent and that is the exact reason the Browns have continued to massively suck for the last ten years of FKN HORRIBLE drafting....I can't go along with more of the same....
Now I can stomach another year of Mangini as coach.....IF... he has little authority in the draft and free agency other than "i need this position, I need depth at this position" and IF he cans Daboll.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
1).You make alot of good points flugs....I like lerner as an owner...he coughs up the BIG bucks for everything (as opposed to the bidwell's of the past) , he isn't a freaking meddler like JJ and snyder, He wants to win and I believe that he has tried very hard to bring a winner(still paying savage,crennel and kokinis)(i think butch davis just got off the payroll this year)... Has paid Big money to Free agents to come hear(thanks phil),....that to me is a good owner....NOW as a decision maker???? Hmmm obviously weak and easily swayed....He won't give up tho and I like That! (i have no problem with lerner as an Owner)
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
3). This guy takes the fun out of football...in the end, the best players who give the greatest effort, who play football because they Love it with a passion, look forward to going to "work", Love the team concept, love the sacrifice for the team, strive to get better and play so as to not let down the coach/team, willing to run thru walls for the TEAM etc... I don't see Mangini inspiring ANY players. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it
4). my biggest problem is(and I don't know if it was KOk or not) the draft talent we passed up on on draft day and the guys we eventually got, the evaluation of (loads of talent) brought in to make us "better"RT,RG,Lb's Safety"(folks we were 4-12 last year!)(now worst team in all of football) and the handling(mismanagement) of current team (qb mess,league leader in grievances against) The whole "philosophy" of Taking a center Instead of say, Beanie Wells, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Machlin,michael oher,(insert your choice here). The second round"debachle" So far...(holy fk). I have lost complete trust in this guy as an evaluator of talent and that is the exact reason the Browns have continued to massively suck for the last ten years of FKN HORRIBLE drafting....I can't go along with more of the same....
Now I can stomach another year of Mangini as coach.....IF... he has little authority in the draft and free agency other than "i need this position, I need depth at this position" and IF he cans Daboll.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I don't see how his "scheme" isn't structured around what he has. On defense, these players can play his 3-4. On offense, they want to run first. They can't commit to vertical or west coast passing because NEITHER friqqin QB is very good. What stellar personnel does he have to mold an offense around Solon? Come on man...you're much smarter than that statement. Now if he was ripping up the team to play a 4-3 or trying to run the spread option...I'd say fine, but he isn't. He's the one who's moved Shaun Rogers and Wimbley around when RAC tried to pigeon hole them.
I don't worry about draft talent. I think that with four picks going in, they needed to generate more than just four bodies. You can disagree if you like but a center was a good start because of the division we play in. If you can't block Ngata or Hampton you aren't going to get a lot of plays off. I trust in the talent evaluation. There is no reason at this point not to. Most of his cuts are not NFL worthy (meaning 31 other clubs agree) and his track record at the Jets is exceptional.
One thing I will point out since I was amazed by it was convincing Kris Jenkins to accept a trade from Carolina last year. I thought, "No way a malcontent like that is going to play for EM." Not only did he have a Pro Bowl year, but he was quoted on EM's firing as saying:
"I think [the Browns would be] getting a great man, a great individual. I think he's a young coach who's growing and learning every day. I think as he keeps progressing, he's going to get better. I guess to Eric, we've had plenty of discussions and man-to-man I think he's one of the best men that I've met in my time on Earth. He's really a great guy. I wish him all the best."
I don't think that Mangini "loses the locker room" as much as when teams are losing....marginal players whine, complain and sometimes mail it in. -
If one isn't prepared they need an MRI taken of their cranium to prove there's a brain inside. I'll start with this - I couldn't give a crap if Mangini stays or sprays. I'm so sick of reading all the negativity about the guy.
Lerner's decision to look to Phil Savage has turned this team into the worst offensive team I've ever seen since I started breathing in 1964. Ever - period! The defense isn't bad to watch as long as they have a reason to play hard, which rarely lasts and they get tired from the lack of time of possession from our offense. Yuck!
Savage's ideas of Stallworth, Edwards, Fisk, Washington, Peek, Dilfer, DA, Quinn, Shaffer, Andruzzi, Corey Williams as well as his no day 1 drafts in a slim 2008 draft (5 picks deep) and leaving us only 4 draft picks for the 2009 draft has me infuriorated. How many dlinemen or olinemen have panned out from mid to late rounds in the draft besides one 3rd overall pick in the draft? Just an FYI for ANYONE bellyaching about Winslow's absence: the main reason Winslow wanted OUT of Cleveland is because of his experiences with Phil Savage. I hear all this bullshit about Wonderlics and Indy combine interviews and personal workouts and Savage decides Braylon Edwards is the "safest" pick at #3 overall. When he wasn't injured or bellyaching - he was dropping way too many catchable passes except the dream season of 2007 (and the miracle produced vrs the NY Giants 1 year later). Other than that, the media can't WAIT to see him take the Jets to places he couldn't ever get Michigan and us to. Good luck with that NY! They've lost 4 of 5 since he arrived after starting out 3-1 in his absence.
Think of Savage's absurd plan which included everything from starting us off with Trent Doofus as the starting QB with Charlie Frye on deck and DA in the hole was atrocious. Now add in we traded away 3 years of bullshit for a 1st round QB that can't even complete 1 pass over 10 yards. Most of those he couldn't even keep in bounds. Did anyone HEAR the announcers last night, which included 2 former QBs (1 was a former NFL OC and Head Coach)?
I honestly went into last night knowing we didn't have 1 receiver or TE that could do any damage to Baltimore's Defense. I also knew their D welcomed the slow and tired legs of Jamal. Okay, he had his 1 or 2 hard runs which met his weekly quota. I seriously hoped Rogers could cause a returnable fumble or Cribbs could score on a return. Instead, I got to watch the guy with the biggest heart on the team get carried off the field on a stretcher.
The LERNER family, not to be confused with 1 convenient scapegoat like an OC or Coach, has done the MOST damage. This might be the first franchise that got worse than they were as an expansion team. Perhaps that wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't 10 years after the expansion season. Randy Lerner has KILLED every single rivalry we had and he's slowly sending the message "don't waste your time on this franchise" any more. Then again, if you enjoy getting kicked in the Adam's apple with steel toes week after week so you can tell people your a GOOD fan - God bless ya!
I honestly don't see enough decent talent to give ANY coaches an honest assessment. STs always seem good and we had Cribbs, Pontbriand and Zastudil - which was where we are most talented. We were the least penalized team at week 8 so that might have shown some degree of promise. That said, if you were in charge of playing chess with our offense - WHAT/WHOM do you attack the opponent with?
I've always wanted it to be as easy as firing the WRONG guy at Head Coach and hiring the RIGHT guy to replace him. What happens when the guy responsible for such an important decision doesn't have the first clue as to what consitutes a GOOD or BAD hire? I'm at the point of thinking this team remains buried until Lerner sells it. I've finally seen enough!
- Tom F.
1).You make alot of good points flugs....I like lerner as an owner...he coughs up the BIG bucks for everything (as opposed to the bidwell's of the past) , he isn't a freaking meddler like JJ and snyder, He wants to win and I believe that he has tried very hard to bring a winner(still paying savage,crennel and kokinis)(i think butch davis just got off the payroll this year)... Has paid Big money to Free agents to come hear(thanks phil),....that to me is a good owner....NOW as a decision maker???? Hmmm obviously weak and easily swayed....He won't give up tho and I like That! (i have no problem with lerner as an Owner)
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
3). This guy takes the fun out of football...in the end, the best players who give the greatest effort, who play football because they Love it with a passion, look forward to going to "work", Love the team concept, love the sacrifice for the team, strive to get better and play so as to not let down the coach/team, willing to run thru walls for the TEAM etc... I don't see Mangini inspiring ANY players. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it
4). my biggest problem is(and I don't know if it was KOk or not) the draft talent we passed up on on draft day and the guys we eventually got, the evaluation of (loads of talent) brought in to make us "better"RT,RG,Lb's Safety"(folks we were 4-12 last year!)(now worst team in all of football) and the handling(mismanagement) of current team (qb mess,league leader in grievances against) The whole "philosophy" of Taking a center Instead of say, Beanie Wells, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Machlin,michael oher,(insert your choice here). The second round"debachle" So far...(holy fk). I have lost complete trust in this guy as an evaluator of talent and that is the exact reason the Browns have continued to massively suck for the last ten years of FKN HORRIBLE drafting....I can't go along with more of the same....
Now I can stomach another year of Mangini as coach.....IF... he has little authority in the draft and free agency other than "i need this position, I need depth at this position" and IF he cans Daboll.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
1).You make alot of good points flugs....I like lerner as an owner...he coughs up the BIG bucks for everything (as opposed to the bidwell's of the past) , he isn't a freaking meddler like JJ and snyder, He wants to win and I believe that he has tried very hard to bring a winner(still paying savage,crennel and kokinis)(i think butch davis just got off the payroll this year)... Has paid Big money to Free agents to come hear(thanks phil),....that to me is a good owner....NOW as a decision maker???? Hmmm obviously weak and easily swayed....He won't give up tho and I like That! (i have no problem with lerner as an Owner)
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
3). This guy takes the fun out of football...in the end, the best players who give the greatest effort, who play football because they Love it with a passion, look forward to going to "work", Love the team concept, love the sacrifice for the team, strive to get better and play so as to not let down the coach/team, willing to run thru walls for the TEAM etc... I don't see Mangini inspiring ANY players. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it
4). my biggest problem is(and I don't know if it was KOk or not) the draft talent we passed up on on draft day and the guys we eventually got, the evaluation of (loads of talent) brought in to make us "better"RT,RG,Lb's Safety"(folks we were 4-12 last year!)(now worst team in all of football) and the handling(mismanagement) of current team (qb mess,league leader in grievances against) The whole "philosophy" of Taking a center Instead of say, Beanie Wells, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Machlin,michael oher,(insert your choice here). The second round"debachle" So far...(holy fk). I have lost complete trust in this guy as an evaluator of talent and that is the exact reason the Browns have continued to massively suck for the last ten years of FKN HORRIBLE drafting....I can't go along with more of the same....
Now I can stomach another year of Mangini as coach.....IF... he has little authority in the draft and free agency other than "i need this position, I need depth at this position" and IF he cans Daboll.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
Thanks Solon! A few things to comment on:
ALL COACHES want to bring in their OWN guys because these become the guys that WANT to play for them. For instance ALL the former Jets were happy to come here and #96 was playing about as good of inside LBer as I have seen in recent years here last Monday Night. I'm talking about plays being made at or behind the line of scrimmage for a refreshing change. While I'm at it, Kaluka Maiava played pretty lights out as well. He shows me better first step instinct than D'Qwell Jackson mainly in where he's makign his tackles. Outside of Joe Thomas, Josh Cribbs, and Shaun Rogers in 08 - we struggled to find enough guys playing hard. Hence the change in Head Coaches and Savage firing. Anytime a corporate buzzsaw comes to the office to trim fat - you're gonna find the half steppers and tiny dancers whining and complaining about the new work environment right? I'm not surprised Jamal is complaining about the length of a 2.5 hour work day; but our defense suddenly knows how to tackle better right?
When BB was here this team HATED him except for HIS guys and draftees named Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson, Orlando Brown, Eric Turner, and Vinnie. BB didn't draft Leroy Hoard per say but he gave him a chance others before BB didn't and it ended up a Pro Bowl honor.
I see SO MANY similarities to when BB was here that first year. When Vinny got hurt - our Qb was Todd Philcox and the Cleveland Browns provided the football follies the rest of the league appreciated. We got the same caliber QBs today but our receivers and TEs are the worst I've ever seen. You can't win if you can't score. There isn't 1 playmaker on our offense and that's the pathetic truth which has zero to do with convenience.
As for the owner, yes, he's willing to open his wallet; BUT he's chosen to not to be a GOOD consumer. Kevin Shaffer was so grossly overpaid, Joe Andruzzi couldn't pass a physical anywhere but Cleveland, Antwaan Peek has battled injuries since the day he joined the NFL, Donte Stallworth has played for about 5 different that were excited to sign him but even happier when he left. When you're an owner and you tell the media you have no idea what has been happening with your franchise Qb situation/dilemma in the 3rd year Quinn is here - you suck as a business owner. If you hate Mangini who do you credit for hiring within 20 minutes of his firing? That comes after not liking RAC right? And who hired Ozzie's favorite secretary and latte boy? Lerner. BAD decisions that don't seem to have much research behind them. I'd rather see him INTERESTED in what he owns but he's never shown me the willingness to put the time in to be successful at winning. He's making an enormous profit off a tradition he had nothing to do with.
Anywhere this team is talented enough to compete - it does. For example, STs led by Cribbs and Zastudil and Pontbriand pinned Buffalo inside their 5 yard line seeingly every time we punted that game which led to conservative play calling on their end.
Joe Thomas has shut out the following studs: Jared Allen, Aaron Schobel, Antwaan Odom (led AFC in sack before achilles ouchies), and Growth Hormone Harrison of Pittsburgh. Shaun Rogers took over the Bengals game against a much better football team and willed us into OT while Jerome Harrison chipped in 130 yards rushing that day. I honestly believe our oline COULD run block IF we had a passing game capable of throwing passes deeper than 5 yards with any degree of accuracy. Since we CANNOT - teams jam 11 in the box with no fear of getting burned deep for doign so. We were the least penalized team a week or 2 ago so there's SOME degree of coaching noticable on the guys that belong in this league.
If that's not enough, Mangini had the Jets winning 10 games in his first year there replacing disappointment. The year Pennington got hurt they won about 5 games and then they won 9 games and looked good as long as Favre's arm was healthy. Point IS I see a track record. Not only that, but the Jets don't look like they are on their way to 9 wins this year so maybe he didn't do such a bad job in NY afterall. I blame quite a bit of our suckiness on Savage: Dilfer, Frye, Dumb Ass were strikes 1 through 3 right? Andruzzi, Peek, Stewart, Shaffer, Corey Williams, Washington, Fisk and not a single draft pick after round 1 starting on either line of ours. Furthermore, no day 1 draft picks in 08 and only 5 total which lead up to only having 4 draft picks to our name heading into April of 09 right? Savage KILLED us.
At this point Solon, I don't really care what happens to Mangini. I'm just not gung ho or confident in how the Lerner family hires Head Coaches here.
- Tom F.
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1).You make alot of good points flugs....I like lerner as an owner...he coughs up the BIG bucks for everything (as opposed to the bidwell's of the past) , he isn't a freaking meddler like JJ and snyder, He wants to win and I believe that he has tried very hard to bring a winner(still paying savage,crennel and kokinis)(i think butch davis just got off the payroll this year)... Has paid Big money to Free agents to come hear(thanks phil),....that to me is a good owner....NOW as a decision maker???? Hmmm obviously weak and easily swayed....He won't give up tho and I like That! (i have no problem with lerner as an Owner)
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
3). This guy takes the fun out of football...in the end, the best players who give the greatest effort, who play football because they Love it with a passion, look forward to going to "work", Love the team concept, love the sacrifice for the team, strive to get better and play so as to not let down the coach/team, willing to run thru walls for the TEAM etc... I don't see Mangini inspiring ANY players. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see it
4). my biggest problem is(and I don't know if it was KOk or not) the draft talent we passed up on on draft day and the guys we eventually got, the evaluation of (loads of talent) brought in to make us "better"RT,RG,Lb's Safety"(folks we were 4-12 last year!)(now worst team in all of football) and the handling(mismanagement) of current team (qb mess,league leader in grievances against) The whole "philosophy" of Taking a center Instead of say, Beanie Wells, Percy Harvin, Jeremy Machlin,michael oher,(insert your choice here). The second round"debachle" So far...(holy fk). I have lost complete trust in this guy as an evaluator of talent and that is the exact reason the Browns have continued to massively suck for the last ten years of FKN HORRIBLE drafting....I can't go along with more of the same....
Now I can stomach another year of Mangini as coach.....IF... he has little authority in the draft and free agency other than "i need this position, I need depth at this position" and IF he cans Daboll.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
I don't see how his "scheme" isn't structured around what he has. On defense, these players can play his 3-4. On offense, they want to run first. They can't commit to vertical or west coast passing because NEITHER friqqin QB is very good. What stellar personnel does he have to mold an offense around Solon? Come on man...you're much smarter than that statement. Now if he was ripping up the team to play a 4-3 or trying to run the spread option...I'd say fine, but he isn't. He's the one who's moved Shaun Rogers and Wimbley around when RAC tried to pigeon hole them.
I don't worry about draft talent. I think that with four picks going in, they needed to generate more than just four bodies. You can disagree if you like but a center was a good start because of the division we play in. If you can't block Ngata or Hampton you aren't going to get a lot of plays off. I trust in the talent evaluation. There is no reason at this point not to. Most of his cuts are not NFL worthy (meaning 31 other clubs agree) and his track record at the Jets is exceptional.
One thing I will point out since I was amazed by it was convincing Kris Jenkins to accept a trade from Carolina last year. I thought, "No way a malcontent like that is going to play for EM." Not only did he have a Pro Bowl year, but he was quoted on EM's firing as saying:
"I think [the Browns would be] getting a great man, a great individual. I think he's a young coach who's growing and learning every day. I think as he keeps progressing, he's going to get better. I guess to Eric, we've had plenty of discussions and man-to-man I think he's one of the best men that I've met in my time on Earth. He's really a great guy. I wish him all the best."
I don't think that Mangini "loses the locker room" as much as when teams are losing....marginal players whine, complain and sometimes mail it in.I don't see how his "scheme" isn't structured around what he has. On defense, these players can play his 3-4. On offense, they want to run first. They can't commit to vertical or west coast passing because NEITHER friqqin QB is very good. What stellar personnel does he have to mold an offense around Solon? Come on man...you're much smarter than that statement. Now if he was ripping up the team to play a 4-3 or trying to run the spread option...I'd say fine, but he isn't. He's the one who's moved Shaun Rogers and Wimbley around when RAC tried to pigeon hole them.
I don't worry about draft talent. I think that with four picks going in, they needed to generate more than just four bodies. You can disagree if you like but a center was a good start because of the division we play in. If you can't block Ngata or Hampton you aren't going to get a lot of plays off. I trust in the talent evaluation. There is no reason at this point not to. Most of his cuts are not NFL worthy (meaning 31 other clubs agree) and his track record at the Jets is exceptional.
One thing I will point out since I was amazed by it was convincing Kris Jenkins to accept a trade from Carolina last year. I thought, "No way a malcontent like that is going to play for EM." Not only did he have a Pro Bowl year, but he was quoted on EM's firing as saying:
I don't think that Mangini "loses the locker room" as much as when teams are losing....marginal players whine, complain and sometimes mail it in.
i think I worded that wrong(scheme) didn't mean scheme as in 3-4 verses 4-3 or whatever. but if the players he has can't perform in the system well you have to tweak the system to hide the flaws...that's what good coaches do. as far as first round centers...baltimore and Pitt have 6th rounders in our division and cincy has an udfa...so saying we needed a Center in the first round to block other guys in our division is well ....not my opinion. we sit here as i said on draft day with no running back and no future running back, only perpetual fan optimism about potential. we take a center when wells,harvin(again insert offensive play maker here) were still available....I said go get ricky williams before he went to canada, Benson when he was let go and wells before the draft....all i got was pooped on...we also could have gotten a rb in the second round...shonn green, or McCoy would look pretty good compared to Veikune right now IMO... I said so before,during and after the draft. Perpetual bad judgement on talent is why we suck not by any particular coach.
But DABOLL SUCKS ASS
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I don't see how his "scheme" isn't structured around what he has. On defense, these players can play his 3-4. On offense, they want to run first. They can't commit to vertical or west coast passing because NEITHER friqqin QB is very good. What stellar personnel does he have to mold an offense around Solon? Come on man...you're much smarter than that statement. Now if he was ripping up the team to play a 4-3 or trying to run the spread option...I'd say fine, but he isn't. He's the one who's moved Shaun Rogers and Wimbley around when RAC tried to pigeon hole them.
I don't worry about draft talent. I think that with four picks going in, they needed to generate more than just four bodies. You can disagree if you like but a center was a good start because of the division we play in. If you can't block Ngata or Hampton you aren't going to get a lot of plays off. I trust in the talent evaluation. There is no reason at this point not to. Most of his cuts are not NFL worthy (meaning 31 other clubs agree) and his track record at the Jets is exceptional.
One thing I will point out since I was amazed by it was convincing Kris Jenkins to accept a trade from Carolina last year. I thought, "No way a malcontent like that is going to play for EM." Not only did he have a Pro Bowl year, but he was quoted on EM's firing as saying:
I don't think that Mangini "loses the locker room" as much as when teams are losing....marginal players whine, complain and sometimes mail it in.
i think I worded that wrong(scheme) didn't mean scheme as in 3-4 verses 4-3 or whatever. but if the players he has can't perform in the system well you have to tweak the system to hide the flaws...that's what good coaches do. as far as first round centers...baltimore and Pitt have 6th rounders in our division and cincy has an udfa...so saying we needed a Center in the first round to block other guys in our division is well ....not my opinion. we sit here as i said on draft day with no running back and no future running back, only perpetual fan optimism about potential. we take a center when wells,harvin(again insert offensive play maker here) were still available....I said go get ricky williams before he went to canada, Benson when he was let go and wells before the draft....all i got was pooped on...we also could have gotten a rb in the second round...shonn green, or McCoy would look pretty good compared to Veikune right now IMO... I said so before,during and after the draft. Perpetual bad judgement on talent is why we suck not by any particular coach.
But DABOLL SUCKS ASS
i think I worded that wrong(scheme) didn't mean scheme as in 3-4 verses 4-3 or whatever. but if the players he has can't perform in the system well you have to tweak the system to hide the flaws...that's what good coaches do. as far as first round centers...baltimore and Pitt have 6th rounders in our division and cincy has an udfa...so saying we needed a Center in the first round to block other guys in our division is well ....not my opinion. we sit here as i said on draft day with no running back and no future running back, only perpetual fan optimism about potential. we take a center when wells,harvin(again insert offensive play maker here) were still available....I said go get ricky williams before he went to canada, Benson when he was let go and wells before the draft....all i got was pooped on...we also could have gotten a rb in the second round...shonn green, or McCoy would look pretty good compared to Veikune right now IMO... I said so before,during and after the draft. Perpetual bad judgement on talent is why we suck not by any particular coach.
But DABOLL SUCKS ASS
"Perpetual" bad judgment. That's certainly going to kill a franchise.
I think that tweaking the system to hide the flaws is what they've tried to do with Quinn. They're trying to give him throws he can make....and he's not done so well. On the deep balls that he threw at the end of Monday night's game, they were so atrocious....now I know why we're trying to dink and dunk with him. When I watch BQ, I see a guy who's very anxious to check down. It seems apparent to me. He's like Jason Campbell that way. For other positions, I'm not sure about tweaking the system. WRs can either run routes or they can't. IF they can't get on the same page as the QB it's going to be hard to keep them in the game.
Ultimately, players (Brady Quinn, Robiskie, Tom Brady, Kevin Faulk) need to execute. If they execute, all is well. If they don't, the talking heads don't stop beating the issue to death.
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I don't buy the quinn argument...hiding his flaws would be to roll him out and have multiple crossing patterns...not sit him in the pocket and watch him become a deer in headlights. roll him out and throw downfield will atleast back the defense up and not having them stack the box with 11 because they know a three step drop is coming every play...putrid putrid offensive scheme.
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I don't buy the quinn argument...hiding his flaws would be to roll him out and have multiple crossing patterns...not sit him in the pocket and watch him become a deer in headlights. roll him out and throw downfield will atleast back the defense up and not having them stack the box with 11 because they know a three step drop is coming every play...putrid putrid offensive scheme.
I don't buy the quinn argument...hiding his flaws would be to roll him out and have multiple crossing patterns...not sit him in the pocket and watch him become a deer in headlights. roll him out and throw downfield will atleast back the defense up and not having them stack the box with 11 because they know a three step drop is coming every play...putrid putrid offensive scheme.
I couldn't agree with your more. I have yet to see any originality in this Browns offense. You have a young QB that can move (unlike DA), why not roll him out? What has been really getting to me, is why when you have the defense coming SOOO hard at the QB, you don't run one QB draw. BQ is not McNabb but I know he can pull out a draw once in a while. This will likely slow down the defense and maybe give the O-line a chance to block.
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2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
I agree to an extent, and have said the same thing in the past, but Don Shula is about the only coach i can think of who actually altered his philosophy as his teams talent changed.....Csonka, Kick, Morris.....morphed in to the Marino air show.
Paul Brown brought in players who fit his mold....he didn't change what he wanted to do because the players might have wanted it, or even needed it..he was a mean SOB for those who lose sight of that fact, or didn't know. I think most do as it is easier to find players who fit the philosophy over changing what you want to do as a core philosophy ever few years.
But...where i really agree...you don't keep banging your head against a brick wall trying to run a guy who can't run as an example.
As far as Mangini is concerned, if he goes he goes and we really haven't wasted much time as this team was a mess before he ever came in....and the parts he selected last year....namely Mack will fit any coaches scheme...same with a few others....but I honestly don't think this year is a true reflection of mangini skill as a coach.
If the New GM decides he just wants to start fresh with his own guy, so be it. If he decides mangini is a guy he can go forward with, that is fine too.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
REbuild? lololol.
There's nothing there. We're down to the foundation. We're under the foundation looking up. Just build, baby.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
2). A good coach structures his Scheme around his Team...not vice~versa...my second biggest concern about mangini. You adapt your offense and defense around the strentghs of your players and try to minimize their weakness'...It has to be collaborative and flexible and fluid, to me that's what a good coach does....I see the opposite with EM...Rigidly trying to fit players to his Scheme both on offense and defense.
I agree to an extent, and have said the same thing in the past, but Don Shula is about the only coach i can think of who actually altered his philosophy as his teams talent changed.....Csonka, Kick, Morris.....morphed in to the Marino air show.
Paul Brown brought in players who fit his mold....he didn't change what he wanted to do because the players might have wanted it, or even needed it..he was a mean SOB for those who lose sight of that fact, or didn't know. I think most do as it is easier to find players who fit the philosophy over changing what you want to do as a core philosophy ever few years.
But...where i really agree...you don't keep banging your head against a brick wall trying to run a guy who can't run as an example.
As far as Mangini is concerned, if he goes he goes and we really haven't wasted much time as this team was a mess before he ever came in....and the parts he selected last year....namely Mack will fit any coaches scheme...same with a few others....but I honestly don't think this year is a true reflection of mangini skill as a coach.
If the New GM decides he just wants to start fresh with his own guy, so be it. If he decides mangini is a guy he can go forward with, that is fine too.
I agree to an extent, and have said the same thing in the past, but Don Shula is about the only coach i can think of who actually altered his philosophy as his teams talent changed.....Csonka, Kick, Morris.....morphed in to the Marino air show.
I'd give Parcells a lot of credit for adapting not only his schemes, but his approach to players, in an effort to bring out the best in them.
For example, personality wise Bledsoe needed to be treated a little bit gentler. Terry Glenn meanwhile needed to be kicked in his ass - hence Parcells calling him "she".
In both cases the different approach resulted in the desired impact. Parcells also adapted his game plan to the talent (or lack thereof) he had on the team.
Belichick I think tends to treat everyone pretty evenly... though veterans who he can trust to work out on their own get a pass in training camp quite often (they'll remain unsigned so as not to create a bad example... but actually everyone knows what's up and its actually a GOOD example that players who are professional enough get treated that way).
Belichick also is considered a deciple of the 3-4 defense.. so much so that nearly every team is adopting the 3-4 now making it more difficult to find the players that fit. So what does Belichick do? Given a lack of quality depth to run the 3-4 he switches to a 4-3 likely taking advantage of the fact that with so many teams adopting the 3-4 there are quality players to be found more attuned to the 4-3.
So I do think there's other examples of good coaches who adapt both their game plan and their approach to players as the situations requires.
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What about the busts he brought in from the Jets and free agency that are starters here but probably would not be on any other team???
What about it?? It's not like there were all-pro's sitting on the streets he could have picked up.
I fully understand why we wanted some of his former players on the sideline...it isn't hard to figure out. Comfort level is one part, and who did we replace with these players...even bigger bums.
Quit acting like Mangini could have brought in all stars yet opted for mid level guys.
What about it?? It's not like there were all-pro's sitting on the streets he could have picked up.
I fully understand why we wanted some of his former players on the sideline...it isn't hard to figure out. Comfort level is one part, and who did we replace with these players...even bigger bums.
Quit acting like Mangini could have brought in all stars yet opted for mid level guys.
Face it, Mangini screwed up the draft and free agency. Guess what?? It sure as H**l shows.
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What about it?? It's not like there were all-pro's sitting on the streets he could have picked up.
I fully understand why we wanted some of his former players on the sideline...it isn't hard to figure out. Comfort level is one part, and who did we replace with these players...even bigger bums.
Quit acting like Mangini could have brought in all stars yet opted for mid level guys.
Face it, Mangini screwed up the draft and free agency. Guess what?? It sure as H**l shows.
Face it, Mangini screwed up the draft and free agency. Guess what?? It sure as H**l shows.
Exactly WHICH free agents did he screw up? Why can't people around here figure that this team SUCKED last year?! You had to know that when Mangini came in here he was going to start building from roster spots 25-53 which is particularly Belichickean/Parcellsian.
If you didn't expect this kind of roster management (not going after the high-priced FAs, acquiring draft picks and managing the cap) then you really had no idea to begin with.
-
Face it, Mangini screwed up the draft and free agency. Guess what?? It sure as H**l shows.
Exactly WHICH free agents did he screw up? Why can't people around here figure that this team SUCKED last year?! You had to know that when Mangini came in here he was going to start building from roster spots 25-53 which is particularly Belichickean/Parcellsian.
If you didn't expect this kind of roster management (not going after the high-priced FAs, acquiring draft picks and managing the cap) then you really had no idea to begin with.
Exactly WHICH free agents did he screw up? Why can't people around here figure that this team SUCKED last year?! You had to know that when Mangini came in here he was going to start building from roster spots 25-53 which is particularly Belichickean/Parcellsian.
If you didn't expect this kind of roster management (not going after the high-priced FAs, acquiring draft picks and managing the cap) then you really had no idea to begin with.
I think we're feeling this team the same way Earl.
Did people for get we had no day 1 draft in 2008? And have they noticed only 1 of the 5 draftees (Rubin) has an NFL future? Alex Hall seems like a dubble guy better slated for the CFL or that league JP's Lostman is gettign overpaid in.
2009 Savage left us 4 draft picks for 7 rounds. I guess I'm not seeign WHERE people think Mangini meseed all of Phil's draft day heroics up. I think some want to give Phil credit for inserting the horrible taste in Wilnslow's mouth about his time in Cleveland. Who here thinks Winslow's mindset to want out of started the day Mangini was hired? If so, do some research on that and be happy we got some return value on a guy who's opinion of our franchise was FUBAR. I think only Jesus of Nazareth turns that situation into a Lazarus reversal if you will.
Free agents? We overpaid the crap out of Corey Williams. We dearly overpaid Shaun Smith. Joe Andruzzi couldn't pass a pro football physical anywhere in this country and yet he was a Savage "gotta have." Kevin Shaffer might have really epitomized just how far in over his head Savage was when he threw insane cake at him to man down the LT spot next to Joe Andruzzi. I LOVED the LeCharles Bentley idea but in the end, I'm looking at an oline where we had to pay far too much cake in free agency because our personnel guru was striking out in the draft. We problem solved the Center position by taking Fraley (deemed to old and lost upside in Philly) only after we tried Rex Tucker and some guy testing positive for steroids from the Miami Dolphins (just count the sum of contracts we put into the Center position that season). Antwaan Peek was never healthy in Houston and the song remained the same here. Jason Fisk was out of gas 2-3 years before Savage fell in love with the idea of bringing that here. Then Phil thinks he's going to fool the league bringing in Ted Washington's empty gas tank. Just imagine if he could have actually found ONE decent nose tackle in the draft so we didn't have to overpay has-beens.
While many adored Joe Jurevicius due to the productivity when he was healthy enough to wear the uniform - fact is the age and wear tear seemingly had him in blue jeans and baseball caps more so then an ability to HELP us on game day.
While Savage was trying to secure Jamal Lewis for the next 10 years - Seems like the Atltanta Falcons signed themselves a YOUNG back more capable of giving a team future quality that the tired and dead legs of Jamal. How many TD are we up to this year with Jamal anyway? James Davis was at least a very good idea late in the draft.
IMO, here's the SCARs producing FUBARs before Mangini got inked:
1. Leadoff QB Trent Doofus
2. On-deck QB Carlies Fryes
3. For the price of a stale bag of potato chips and a can of Walmart Cola - we Savage thought he was gonna become Jeds Clampetts signing the mind of Jethro (DA) with the acuracy of Kyle Boller to play QB here.
4. Draft a 1st round QB so we could train Jethro (sporting 3 winless starts to his name) instead. End result? 2 years of 1st round QB w/ only 3 starts to his name producing this question: "what do we have in Brady Quinn?" Inexcusable. We should have already known if this was a position of need when we had 31 other teams saying no thank to DA. Instead, Mangini seemed hellbent to find out what we had in Quinn and named him satrter which is what 95% of the fanbase that didn't attend Oregon State wanted. It's not his fault he got handed a BAD deck. That said, he was REALLY about the only Head Coach interested in playing this deck so why SHOOT the man? I didn't see Billy Cowher stepping up to the plate for us many predicted but he's one of those laughing at our situation every week with Shannon Sharpe and Boomer Esiason. There's a lot of misplaced hatred at every single Head Coach willing to TRY to reverse the clusterflock of BAD management above. We're running out of Head Coaching candidates every time they see how much hatred our fans vent at the wrong person.
Have the NY Jets upgraded Mangini? If so, could somebody please show me where and how? They're 4-5 in what looks like the worst division in the AFC. We beat Buffalo right? That same team beat the Jets for God sakes. I think Mangini has proven that if he has a GM willing to provide a decent hand to work with - he's not as bad as people make him out to be at coaching up guys. Everywhere we are strong like say STs, we seem well coached in that area (ie; the Buffalo game pinning them inside the 5 about 5 times and all of Cribbs' returns this year). We've been given some ideal field position our QBs and offense couldn't take advantage of. Here's another example - Joe Thomas shutout several studs from sacking our QBs to the extent of not hearign a guy like Jared Allen's name after introductions. We've also improved on the undisciplined penalties we had too much of with the prior regime. They're examples of doign decent teams in areas we have decent talent. Tackiling has improved inspite of Jamal's complaints about the length of a millionaire's work day. There's some coaching going that's noticeable in the areas of our team where we have guys that belogn at this level. In other areas, I can't tell what's worse - teh talent or the coachign like at all the offensive skill positions.
- Tom F.
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Exactly WHICH free agents did he screw up? Why can't people around here figure that this team SUCKED last year?! You had to know that when Mangini came in here he was going to start building from roster spots 25-53 which is particularly Belichickean/Parcellsian.
If you didn't expect this kind of roster management (not going after the high-priced FAs, acquiring draft picks and managing the cap) then you really had no idea to begin with.
I think we're feeling this team the same way Earl.
Did people for get we had no day 1 draft in 2008? And have they noticed only 1 of the 5 draftees (Rubin) has an NFL future? Alex Hall seems like a dubble guy better slated for the CFL or that league JP's Lostman is gettign overpaid in.
2009 Savage left us 4 draft picks for 7 rounds. I guess I'm not seeign WHERE people think Mangini meseed all of Phil's draft day heroics up. I think some want to give Phil credit for inserting the horrible taste in Wilnslow's mouth about his time in Cleveland. Who here thinks Winslow's mindset to want out of started the day Mangini was hired? If so, do some research on that and be happy we got some return value on a guy who's opinion of our franchise was FUBAR. I think only Jesus of Nazareth turns that situation into a Lazarus reversal if you will.
Free agents? We overpaid the crap out of Corey Williams. We dearly overpaid Shaun Smith. Joe Andruzzi couldn't pass a pro football physical anywhere in this country and yet he was a Savage "gotta have." Kevin Shaffer might have really epitomized just how far in over his head Savage was when he threw insane cake at him to man down the LT spot next to Joe Andruzzi. I LOVED the LeCharles Bentley idea but in the end, I'm looking at an oline where we had to pay far too much cake in free agency because our personnel guru was striking out in the draft. We problem solved the Center position by taking Fraley (deemed to old and lost upside in Philly) only after we tried Rex Tucker and some guy testing positive for steroids from the Miami Dolphins (just count the sum of contracts we put into the Center position that season). Antwaan Peek was never healthy in Houston and the song remained the same here. Jason Fisk was out of gas 2-3 years before Savage fell in love with the idea of bringing that here. Then Phil thinks he's going to fool the league bringing in Ted Washington's empty gas tank. Just imagine if he could have actually found ONE decent nose tackle in the draft so we didn't have to overpay has-beens.
While many adored Joe Jurevicius due to the productivity when he was healthy enough to wear the uniform - fact is the age and wear tear seemingly had him in blue jeans and baseball caps more so then an ability to HELP us on game day.
While Savage was trying to secure Jamal Lewis for the next 10 years - Seems like the Atltanta Falcons signed themselves a YOUNG back more capable of giving a team future quality that the tired and dead legs of Jamal. How many TD are we up to this year with Jamal anyway? James Davis was at least a very good idea late in the draft.
IMO, here's the SCARs producing FUBARs before Mangini got inked:
1. Leadoff QB Trent Doofus
2. On-deck QB Carlies Fryes
3. For the price of a stale bag of potato chips and a can of Walmart Cola - we Savage thought he was gonna become Jeds Clampetts signing the mind of Jethro (DA) with the acuracy of Kyle Boller to play QB here.
4. Draft a 1st round QB so we could train Jethro (sporting 3 winless starts to his name) instead. End result? 2 years of 1st round QB w/ only 3 starts to his name producing this question: "what do we have in Brady Quinn?" Inexcusable. We should have already known if this was a position of need when we had 31 other teams saying no thank to DA. Instead, Mangini seemed hellbent to find out what we had in Quinn and named him satrter which is what 95% of the fanbase that didn't attend Oregon State wanted. It's not his fault he got handed a BAD deck. That said, he was REALLY about the only Head Coach interested in playing this deck so why SHOOT the man? I didn't see Billy Cowher stepping up to the plate for us many predicted but he's one of those laughing at our situation every week with Shannon Sharpe and Boomer Esiason. There's a lot of misplaced hatred at every single Head Coach willing to TRY to reverse the clusterflock of BAD management above. We're running out of Head Coaching candidates every time they see how much hatred our fans vent at the wrong person.
Have the NY Jets upgraded Mangini? If so, could somebody please show me where and how? They're 4-5 in what looks like the worst division in the AFC. We beat Buffalo right? That same team beat the Jets for God sakes. I think Mangini has proven that if he has a GM willing to provide a decent hand to work with - he's not as bad as people make him out to be at coaching up guys. Everywhere we are strong like say STs, we seem well coached in that area (ie; the Buffalo game pinning them inside the 5 about 5 times and all of Cribbs' returns this year). We've been given some ideal field position our QBs and offense couldn't take advantage of. Here's another example - Joe Thomas shutout several studs from sacking our QBs to the extent of not hearign a guy like Jared Allen's name after introductions. We've also improved on the undisciplined penalties we had too much of with the prior regime. They're examples of doign decent teams in areas we have decent talent. Tackiling has improved inspite of Jamal's complaints about the length of a millionaire's work day. There's some coaching going that's noticeable in the areas of our team where we have guys that belogn at this level. In other areas, I can't tell what's worse - teh talent or the coachign like at all the offensive skill positions.
- Tom F.
I think we're feeling this team the same way Earl.
Did people for get we had no day 1 draft in 2008? And have they noticed only 1 of the 5 draftees (Rubin) has an NFL future? Alex Hall seems like a dubble guy better slated for the CFL or that league JP's Lostman is gettign overpaid in.
2009 Savage left us 4 draft picks for 7 rounds. I guess I'm not seeign WHERE people think Mangini meseed all of Phil's draft day heroics up. I think some want to give Phil credit for inserting the horrible taste in Wilnslow's mouth about his time in Cleveland. Who here thinks Winslow's mindset to want out of started the day Mangini was hired? If so, do some research on that and be happy we got some return value on a guy who's opinion of our franchise was FUBAR. I think only Jesus of Nazareth turns that situation into a Lazarus reversal if you will.
Free agents? We overpaid the crap out of Corey Williams. We dearly overpaid Shaun Smith. Joe Andruzzi couldn't pass a pro football physical anywhere in this country and yet he was a Savage "gotta have." Kevin Shaffer might have really epitomized just how far in over his head Savage was when he threw insane cake at him to man down the LT spot next to Joe Andruzzi. I LOVED the LeCharles Bentley idea but in the end, I'm looking at an oline where we had to pay far too much cake in free agency because our personnel guru was striking out in the draft. We problem solved the Center position by taking Fraley (deemed to old and lost upside in Philly) only after we tried Rex Tucker and some guy testing positive for steroids from the Miami Dolphins (just count the sum of contracts we put into the Center position that season). Antwaan Peek was never healthy in Houston and the song remained the same here. Jason Fisk was out of gas 2-3 years before Savage fell in love with the idea of bringing that here. Then Phil thinks he's going to fool the league bringing in Ted Washington's empty gas tank. Just imagine if he could have actually found ONE decent nose tackle in the draft so we didn't have to overpay has-beens.
While many adored Joe Jurevicius due to the productivity when he was healthy enough to wear the uniform - fact is the age and wear tear seemingly had him in blue jeans and baseball caps more so then an ability to HELP us on game day.
While Savage was trying to secure Jamal Lewis for the next 10 years - Seems like the Atltanta Falcons signed themselves a YOUNG back more capable of giving a team future quality that the tired and dead legs of Jamal. How many TD are we up to this year with Jamal anyway? James Davis was at least a very good idea late in the draft.
IMO, here's the SCARs producing FUBARs before Mangini got inked:
1. Leadoff QB Trent Doofus
2. On-deck QB Carlies Fryes
3. For the price of a stale bag of potato chips and a can of Walmart Cola - we Savage thought he was gonna become Jeds Clampetts signing the mind of Jethro (DA) with the acuracy of Kyle Boller to play QB here.
4. Draft a 1st round QB so we could train Jethro (sporting 3 winless starts to his name) instead. End result? 2 years of 1st round QB w/ only 3 starts to his name producing this question: "what do we have in Brady Quinn?" Inexcusable. We should have already known if this was a position of need when we had 31 other teams saying no thank to DA. Instead, Mangini seemed hellbent to find out what we had in Quinn and named him satrter which is what 95% of the fanbase that didn't attend Oregon State wanted. It's not his fault he got handed a BAD deck. That said, he was REALLY about the only Head Coach interested in playing this deck so why SHOOT the man? I didn't see Billy Cowher stepping up to the plate for us many predicted but he's one of those laughing at our situation every week with Shannon Sharpe and Boomer Esiason. There's a lot of misplaced hatred at every single Head Coach willing to TRY to reverse the clusterflock of BAD management above. We're running out of Head Coaching candidates every time they see how much hatred our fans vent at the wrong person.
Have the NY Jets upgraded Mangini? If so, could somebody please show me where and how? They're 4-5 in what looks like the worst division in the AFC. We beat Buffalo right? That same team beat the Jets for God sakes. I think Mangini has proven that if he has a GM willing to provide a decent hand to work with - he's not as bad as people make him out to be at coaching up guys. Everywhere we are strong like say STs, we seem well coached in that area (ie; the Buffalo game pinning them inside the 5 about 5 times and all of Cribbs' returns this year). We've been given some ideal field position our QBs and offense couldn't take advantage of. Here's another example - Joe Thomas shutout several studs from sacking our QBs to the extent of not hearign a guy like Jared Allen's name after introductions. We've also improved on the undisciplined penalties we had too much of with the prior regime. They're examples of doign decent teams in areas we have decent talent. Tackiling has improved inspite of Jamal's complaints about the length of a millionaire's work day. There's some coaching going that's noticeable in the areas of our team where we have guys that belogn at this level. In other areas, I can't tell what's worse - teh talent or the coachign like at all the offensive skill positions.
- Tom F.
Tom, Mangini's relationship with Tannenbaum was excellent. They were on the same page. The decision to fire him came from an owner who wants to sell $4000 a seat PSLs next year. Four weeks prior, they'd been talking contract extension. Tannenbaum was given the ultimatum to fire EM or join him on the unemployment line.
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