Browns Tight End
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Been there, done that in Winslow ... time for some lights-out Defensive Backs & Line Backers.
Just load up on Defense, screw scoring points, let's rip someones head off.
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I wouldn't take a tight end in the 1st unless we drop way down in the draft. But, if there is a tight end with great value in rounds 2 or later it will help this team a lot. We could probably find a very good tight end later in the draft, maybe a young Heiden who would help this team a lot.
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Tight end not a priority. Important. But not in the top ten.
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Tight end might not be the highest priority. But, if I am in round 4 of the draft and I have a chance to get an almost sure fire starting tight end versus a lesser player at a different position I would take bpa. I think part of the reason we are in this mess is because we have focused too much on drafting positions instead of drafting great players.
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Tight end might not be the highest priority. But, if I am in round 4 of the draft and I have a chance to get an almost sure fire starting tight end versus a lesser player at a different position I would take bpa. I think part of the reason we are in this mess is because we have focused too much on drafting positions instead of drafting great players.
Tight end might not be the highest priority. But, if I am in round 4 of the draft and I have a chance to get an almost sure fire starting tight end versus a lesser player at a different position I would take bpa. I think part of the reason we are in this mess is because we have focused too much on drafting positions instead of drafting great players.
Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
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Tight end might not be the highest priority. But, if I am in round 4 of the draft and I have a chance to get an almost sure fire starting tight end versus a lesser player at a different position I would take bpa. I think part of the reason we are in this mess is because we have focused too much on drafting positions instead of drafting great players.
Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
Agreed. This mock draft, put together by a Browns fan, has us drafting tight ends in Rounds 3 and 5.
Dennis Pitta's a receiving tight end, Nate Byham's a kickass blocker. They'd complement each other quite nicely.
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I think Kathy is right, a tight end would significantly help this team. But, I would be disappointed if we took a blocking tight end after already picking up a receiving tight end. We already have guys who can block at that position. I would rather we took a big guy with good hands that might not be the fastest tight end available. If we don't have the chance to pick a potential gates then I would be very happy with a heiden cloan, just someone you can count on.
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We do not know what he have in Gaines and Estrandia. If they are showing some semblance of decency then perhaps we can postpone the need for a TE for some other year. Also, I think drafting a new TE is not going to solve out TE problems for atleast 2,3 years assuming the TE pick does not turn out to be a bust.
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Tight end might not be the highest priority. But, if I am in round 4 of the draft and I have a chance to get an almost sure fire starting tight end versus a lesser player at a different position I would take bpa. I think part of the reason we are in this mess is because we have focused too much on drafting positions instead of drafting great players.
Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
Hells Bells, I thought you wanted to discuss getting a tight end. Guess not...
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I really dont see a glaring need at TE. Gaines and Estranida arent going to win games but they looked serviceable.
You cant really blame the blocking on the TEs our OL has been pretty horrid at every spot. Even Thomas hasnt played at his level but thats the problem with with the OL. There is 5 guys who have to play together or its not going to work. This has little to do with TEs they arent supposed to drive DLmen off the ball they are supposed to chip block or maybe do a quick hook block. If they have to hold their block they will get beat thats why theyre TE and not OTs.
They also CATCH the ball which is extremely overlooked on this board. Sure they arent gonna take it to the house for a 50 yd bomb but when they are open they catch the ball.
Another issue I have is that other then outside of Gresham there isnt one TE that does anything for me. It looks like there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year
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I like Ed Dickson, TE, Oregon. He is their leading receiver and they play a West Coast spread offense. He has great hands and good speed for being 6'3+" and 244 LBS. His 40 yard dash is 4.65 sec. He does a lot of blocking in that offense too. Dickson should be available in the early 3rd round. He is the only senior on offense at Oregon this year.
Oregon has sent a lot of TE's to the NFL in the last 20 years. Dante Rosario, with the Panthers, is one of the more recent ones.
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A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
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Thanks, Alo, it's nice to know I'm not way off base with this idea. I was actually watching some of the 1980's games when Ozzie Newsome was so important to the Browns' offense when I started thinking that the TE spot could really help this club.
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Hells bells I KNOW it's not going to be a #1 priority but we're suffering in an extremely anemic offense so I'm thinking TE should at least be in the chatter SOMEwhere.
Agreed. This mock draft, put together by a Browns fan, has us drafting tight ends in Rounds 3 and 5.
Dennis Pitta's a receiving tight end, Nate Byham's a kickass blocker. They'd complement each other quite nicely.
Agreed. This mock draft, put together by a Browns fan, has us drafting tight ends in Rounds 3 and 5.
Dennis Pitta's a receiving tight end, Nate Byham's a kickass blocker. They'd complement each other quite nicely.
Interesting mock draft. I don't know enough to comment on the individual players but I did notice there's not a WR in the bunch.
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Agree with the OP's main point: there may be other areas where this team is hurting, but a TE would be a huge benefit. Their current TEs aren't good at anything, and are probably only adequate at best at anything you'd ask from them. Maybe the Browns don't need a player like Winslow, but a big guy with great hands, tough to bring down, and can block, too: Anthony McCoy from USC. And I hate USC.
As for Kellen Winslow: been there, done that, what was the problem with Winslow? He was one of the best TEs in the league, put up huge numbers, provided a great safety net for a QB, and made it all the more difficult to double your top WR.
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Agree with the OP's main point: there may be other areas where this team is hurting, but a TE would be a huge benefit. Their current TEs aren't good at anything, and are probably only adequate at best at anything you'd ask from them. Maybe the Browns don't need a player like Winslow, but a big guy with great hands, tough to bring down, and can block, too: Anthony McCoy from USC. And I hate USC.
As for Kellen Winslow: been there, done that, what was the problem with Winslow? He was one of the best TEs in the league, put up huge numbers, provided a great safety net for a QB, and made it all the more difficult to double your top WR.
As for Kellen Winslow: been there, done that, what was the problem with Winslow? He was one of the best TEs in the league, put up huge numbers, provided a great safety net for a QB, and made it all the more difficult to double your top WR.
Winslow had the OPPORTUNITY to be one of the best TEs in the league but I'm not convinced he WAS one of the best.
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A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
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A few points:
- An effective receiving tight end is a great resource for a young quarterback. Just look at how Sanchez, Stafford, and Freeman have utilized their dynamic tight ends; there's a noticeable correlation between their tight ends having good games and the young QB's having success.
- We'll likely have a young QB as our starter next year, whether it's Quinn or a rookie QB. As many have noted, Quinn relied heavily on his tight ends at Notre Dame and made good use of Winslow in his few starts last year. Giving him a better TE would be a wise move, and a rookie quarterback would benefit just as much from bringing in a guy who can catch the ball and, hopefully, then run for more than a yard or two.
- As Kathy noted, the West Coast offense is predicated on having tight ends who are more dynamic than Michael Gaines and Greg Estandia. And that requires devoting resources to the position: Mike Holmgren drafted a tight end in the first round (Jerramy Stevens); when that guy busted, Tim Ruskell drafted for him another tight end in the second round (Nate Carlson). So it doesn't make much sense to say, "Gaines and Estandia can block well, so we're set at the position."
- Dawgtracker, I don't get your point about being upset that we'd draft two tight ends. As I've tried to argue, we'll need more than a Heiden clone if we're serious about helping Quinn out and/or moving to a WCO. At the same time, having a Heiden clone is valuable, which is what we'd be getting in Nate Byham in the 5th round. He'd be a nice value pick, which is what's important for a rebuilding team. We want all of our picks to be 5-7 year contributors to the club, even if there's a little redundancy in what positions they play. Look at the Tuna's '08 draft in Miami: it's a great draft, despite the fact that he picked multiple guys at the same position.
- Louisville, I don't have a clear sense why you think "there isnt a drop from mid level prospects to UDFAs at the TE position this year". I'd need names & draft grades to make that judgment, and I doubt I'd reach that conclusion about this year's class. But I'm willing to consider the argument - you just need to show me more.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
IMO there is 4-5 TEs that are worth being drafted, after that there is no real drop off in production from the mid-level TEs to the UDFAs. You have Gresham, Dickinson, McCoy, and Pitta who are decent recieving threats but after that most TEs havent distant theirselves from one another. It seems most TEs after the 4 I previously mentioned are blocking TEs. IMO we dont need to waste a pick on a blocking TE they are a dime a dozen.
The sad part is since its such a weak draft class those guys ar going to go higher then they should. I hope were not the ones who blow a 3nd rounder on a blocking TE.
Those are just the top senior prospects. From what I hear, juniors Wesley Saunders and Aaron Hernandez are strong candidates to enter this year's draft and get picked in the early rounds.
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Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
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Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.
A guy that is severly under the radar is Dennis Morris of LA Tech. 6'3" 265lbs has 600yrds recieving and 11tds!
Hernandez is interesting but he should stay he could be the #1 TE coming out next year. If he does decide to declare this year he will be a 3rd rounder, he should stay IMO.
Not sure why staying another year will help his draft stock. Rob Gronkowski likely will be the #1 TE, and Hernandez will face the challenge of keeping up his production while working with a non-Tebow QB.
@louisville-slugger said:
Saunders is a freak at 270 and being as athletic as he is but he has only played in 8 games and has 1 TD. He has no business declaring unless he already has something worked out with the Raiders.Weslye Saunder's stats:
- 30 rec., 360 yards, 3 TD (scored 2 yesterday)
- 20 rec., 443 yards, 1 TD
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