Surge in Afgan.
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I don't know, T and Die, it seems to me that you won't even give Obama an inch or the benefit of a doubt.
Seems like you got everything wanted - at least it seems that way to me - but you looked and looked for a kernel that could be used to denigrate the entire plan.
Could you guys be happy with ANYTHING Obama brings forward?
I always like to distinguish between 'consensus' and 'commitment'. First of all, forget about 'consensus' - it is virtually impossible and, if it is possible, the horse is usually miles and miles out of the barn before the door is closed.
Commitment, however, is another animal all together.....You don't have to agree with 100% of the plan but there is enough there that you do agree with, you decide to commit to it.
On the surface, the argument that these folks are simply going to go underground for a few years and wait until we begin to move out is kind of simplistic. There will be more troops. They will cover more ground and will investigate more 'caves'. These guys have already committed a crime - they don't have to do anything at this point to make them 'guilty'.
I believe the pull out plan is political to appease the lefties who will begrugedly (sp) and quietly go along with the plan - don't expect any anti-war demonstrations.
The polar opposite of XX, XXX, and XXXX isn't any more effective and rational.
What do you LIKE about this plan?
I don't know, T and Die, it seems to me that you won't even give Obama an inch or the benefit of a doubt.
He imo is letting politics interfere with his job as Commander in Chief. He took way to long to come to a decison..
Seems like you got everything wanted - at least it seems that way to me - but you looked and looked for a kernel that could be used to denigrate the entire plan.
Could you guys be happy with ANYTHING Obama brings forward?
He took way to long to finally come to a decision on how many troops. He did not go with the recommendation of his hand picked General.
I always like to distinguish between 'consensus' and 'commitment'. First of all, forget about 'consensus' - it is virtually impossible and, if it is possible, the horse is usually miles and miles out of the barn before the door is closed.
Commitment, however, is another animal all together.....You don't have to agree with 100% of the plan but there is enough there that you do agree with, you decide to commit to it.
I agree with more troops, but he should have sent the 40,000 asked for not 30,000.
On the surface, the argument that these folks are simply going to go underground for a few years and wait until we begin to move out is kind of simplistic. There will be more troops. They will cover more ground and will investigate more 'caves'. These guys have already committed a crime - they don't have to do anything at this point to make them 'guilty'.
I don't think you understand the size of the area where they could hide. It is vast. I disagree with your term "crime", I would call it a terrorist act. Comparing what they did to a crime is not wise.
I believe the pull out plan is political to appease the lefties who will begrugedly (sp) and quietly go along with the plan - don't expect any anti-war demonstrations.
The polar opposite of XX, XXX, and XXXX isn't any more effective and rational.
What do you LIKE about this plan?
Not much. Him stating that it is limited is just giving way to much information to the enemy. These people can just simply blend into the civilian population, do hit and skip IED attacks, mortar attacks, etc. Wait until the troops leave and then go all out. If you are going to go for a "victory", you can't do it half assed. This is a half assed attempt to apease both sides of the "politcal" fence.
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I am not defending Obama on bit here, I am in favor of bringing a majority of all the troops there home, but everyone was bitching about not acting fast enough and now that he did you are still bitching. Wow, you're worse then my girl.
I am in favor of pulling back the troops and all of those who are not with al qaeda and then drop a couple of our nice weapons, say like hydrogen bombs, then let everybody back in.
Just look at all of the lives that will be saved then we can go forward to rebuilding the place without the coackroach al qaeda.
If you remember the shit worked in Japan at the end of WWII.
I am in favor of pulling back the troops and all of those who are not with al qaeda and then drop a couple of our nice weapons, say like hydrogen bombs, then let everybody back in.
Just look at all of the lives that will be saved then we can go forward to rebuilding the place without the coackroach al qaeda.
If you remember the shit worked in Japan at the end of WWII.
The Japanese was beat, the h bomb just made them surrender
Luck is Tim Couch. Big, Dumb Goofy, slow thinking QB - Ghoolie, 2-28-12 -
Thanks for your thoughts, Die.
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I am in favor of pulling back the troops and all of those who are not with al qaeda and then drop a couple of our nice weapons, say like hydrogen bombs, then let everybody back in.
Just look at all of the lives that will be saved then we can go forward to rebuilding the place without the coackroach al qaeda.
If you remember the shit worked in Japan at the end of WWII.
The Japanese was beat, the h bomb just made them surrender
The Japanese was beat, the h bomb just made them surrender
Of course they were beaten, they were scared shitless when they saw their brothers, cousins and so on get vaporized.
poof!!
Also by using the bombs it stopped the whole population of the japanese from suicide
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I am not defending Obama on bit here, I am in favor of bringing a majority of all the troops there home, but everyone was bitching about not acting fast enough and now that he did you are still bitching. Wow, you're worse then my girl.
I am in favor of pulling back the troops and all of those who are not with al qaeda and then drop a couple of our nice weapons, say like hydrogen bombs, then let everybody back in.
Just look at all of the lives that will be saved then we can go forward to rebuilding the place without the coackroach al qaeda.
If you remember the shit worked in Japan at the end of WWII.
I am in favor of pulling back the troops and all of those who are not with al qaeda and then drop a couple of our nice weapons, say like hydrogen bombs, then let everybody back in.
Just look at all of the lives that will be saved then we can go forward to rebuilding the place without the coackroach al qaeda.
If you remember the shit worked in Japan at the end of WWII.
that might be the dumbest comparison ever.
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come on you guys..... this is not really about Afghanistan.... no economy or even hope of one. very little natural resources except poppy..... EXTREMELY tribal like society.....extremely uneducated...... never been a strong central government......... extremely religous..... geographically almost impossible to root out "insurgents" out of each valley.....
PAKISTAN IS NUCLEAR...... INDIA IS NUCLEAR....... clear the cobwebs its about regional nuclear stabilization..... keeping Pakistan stable when they have MASSIVE problem with their very segmented population.
We cant really stabilize Afghanistan.... totally corrupt ineffective central government with Valley by Valley controlled tribal populations with warlords infused with opium cash and influenced heavily by the taliban (religion)
PAKISTAN is nuclear and you evidently have forgotten about how they were the ones selling nuclear secrets to Iran/Iraq/North Korea/ anyone with money in the first place. India and Pakistan both are nuclear with a long combat history. Pakistan IF the Nuclear arsenal falls into the hands of their extremists we REALLY have something to worry about.
This "time" you partisans are crying about is because this is EXTREMELY complicated with many moving parts with all of the different regional problems.... let alone IRAN borders Afghanistan.
Keep talking about partisan attacks without looking at the regional issues. Stupid.
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come on you guys..... this is not really about Afghanistan.... no economy or even hope of one. very little natural resources except poppy..... EXTREMELY tribal like society.....extremely uneducated...... never been a strong central government......... extremely religous..... geographically almost impossible to root out "insurgents" out of each valley.....
PAKISTAN IS NUCLEAR...... INDIA IS NUCLEAR....... clear the cobwebs its about regional nuclear stabilization..... keeping Pakistan stable when they have MASSIVE problem with their very segmented population.
We cant really stabilize Afghanistan.... totally corrupt ineffective central government with Valley by Valley controlled tribal populations with warlords infused with opium cash and influenced heavily by the taliban (religion)
PAKISTAN is nuclear and you evidently have forgotten about how they were the ones selling nuclear secrets to Iran/Iraq/North Korea/ anyone with money in the first place. India and Pakistan both are nuclear with a long combat history. Pakistan IF the Nuclear arsenal falls into the hands of their extremists we REALLY have something to worry about.
This "time" you partisans are crying about is because this is EXTREMELY complicated with many moving parts with all of the different regional problems.... let alone IRAN borders Afghanistan.
Keep talking about partisan attacks without looking at the regional issues. Stupid.
Keep talking about partisan attacks without looking at the regional issues. Stupid.
Aside from trying to prop up your decision to vote for a man with the least military experience in many years after you demended it of a candidate just what is it about the Afghan invasion do you see as vital to the US security?
Are we just holding the fort until the UN can get things in order?
I can't imagine yuou believe that.
The UN is almost as corrupt and toothless as Karzai.
Can you at least admit that boasting of a "war of necessity" was just bullshit for the campaign?
I'm not saying I have a clear direction but he should pick one.
Go in like you mean it or get the f*ck out.
Pick one.
The number of people enthralled by the daily drone of his speeches is shtrinking.
WSS
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Steve I dont care about Obama's speeches on this matter, however the time it took him was probably because of the political/PR component versus reality. The general American populace does not care about Pakistan or even thinks about regional stabilization but they do care about "terrorists" etc.
We broke a country that can destabilize a nuclear power who already has been caught selling nuclear secrets to other unstable nations. Its a massive problem and now one we are stuck with.
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Steve I dont care about Obama's speeches on this matter, however the time it took him was probably because of the political/PR component versus reality. The general American populace does not care about Pakistan or even thinks about regional stabilization but they do care about "terrorists" etc.
We broke a country that can destabilize a nuclear power who already has been caught selling nuclear secrets to other unstable nations. Its a massive problem and now one we are stuck with.
Steve I dont care about Obama's speeches on this matter, however the time it took him was probably because of the political/PR component versus reality. The general American populace does not care about Pakistan or even thinks about regional stabilization but they do care about "terrorists" etc.
They don't care about Afghanistan for sure.
And we don't have much control over the Pakis or Iranians (who will be nuclear sooner than later)
We probably f*cked up by doing the UNs bidding in the first place.
A wink and a nod to Saddam overtaking Kuwait would have saved us a lot of problems. But...
We broke a country that can destabilize a nuclear power who already has been caught selling nuclear secrets to other unstable nations. Its a massive problem and now one we are stuck with.
We "broke" what wonderful piece of real estate???
And running another 30 K soldiers through the meat grinder for one year "fixes" it exactly how?
WSS
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I don't know, T and Die, it seems to me that you won't even give Obama an inch or the benefit of a doubt.
Seems like you got everything wanted - at least it seems that way to me - but you looked and looked for a kernel that could be used to denigrate the entire plan.
Could you guys be happy with ANYTHING Obama brings forward?
I always like to distinguish between 'consensus' and 'commitment'. First of all, forget about 'consensus' - it is virtually impossible and, if it is possible, the horse is usually miles and miles out of the barn before the door is closed.
Commitment, however, is another animal all together.....You don't have to agree with 100% of the plan but there is enough there that you do agree with, you decide to commit to it.
On the surface, the argument that these folks are simply going to go underground for a few years and wait until we begin to move out is kind of simplistic. There will be more troops. They will cover more ground and will investigate more 'caves'. These guys have already committed a crime - they don't have to do anything at this point to make them 'guilty'.
I believe the pull out plan is political to appease the lefties who will begrugedly (sp) and quietly go along with the plan - don't expect any anti-war demonstrations.
The polar opposite of XX, XXX, and XXXX isn't any more effective and rational.
What do you LIKE about this plan?
I don't know, T and Die, it seems to me that you won't even give Obama an inch or the benefit of a doubt.
Seems like you got everything wanted - at least it seems that way to me - but you looked and looked for a kernel that could be used to denigrate the entire plan.
What do you LIKE about this plan?
Obama is like a little spoiled kid it has taken him 5 months to act upon a request and the he did not even listen to those with experience in these matters like his generals, Obama put together some big political charade and had his West Point cadets to stand around him as props for a speech where they were even qued when to clap. Its all a dog and pony show to him, IMO he really dosn't give a damn you can tell that with the words that he says. Obama's only compassion is for and about himself and his ideals.
1 Corinthians 13
Love
1If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.
He is nothing more than a talking billlboard.
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Sev, we were stuck with terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan before Bush was ever pres.
We were going to be hit on 9/11 for about 2.5 years of the Clinton admin.
The Soviets just got hit by a terrorist hit... is that because they went into Iraq?
No, it's because they aren't Muslim extremists. I don't see the idea that so many
wanted to diss Iraq in favor of Afghanistan as the problem, now so many want to diss Afghanistan
in favor of Pakistan being labeled the problem.
It sounds like anti-status quo whining, to me. Terrorism is a global problem, and we
have to go after it to hold it back.
The ever so popular liberal refrain of "we can't totally stop it, so we should do nothing" doesn't fly.
Neither does the whining.
But Steve is absolutely right. You either have just cause and you go in and completely kick ass, or you don't.
This LBJ politically expedient "rules of engagement" loses more American lives by far, than just going in and completely winning.
There's been about 400 legit enemy killed by predator drone attacks. Only 20 civilians killed. The 20 are very unfortunate, but
you don't have much choice. Things happen in war, you can't totally avoid it. But the NATA commander denying air strikes
to our soldiers under fire? He should be put into prison for a long, long time.
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