More Evidence of Good Coaching
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My problem with Daboll is the play calling.
I mean, when you DO have rookies and new players and so on,
WHY handicap them with "run, run, pass, punt" on sequential drives?
Daboll is getting away from it more and more...
but why that predictable crap? If you have to help your
rooks and younger players, etc... why not be more
deceitful in the -order- of plays you call?
Watch how many times he calls a run on first down.
I'd say it seems to be maybe 90 percent of the time?
Seems like eh... 98 percent?
That's how the defenses end up keying on
a run on first and second downs, and all the third and eights
the Browns offense has to endure. Then, the qb has to get the ball out
FAST in the face of an obvious blitz situation.
I dunno, it just grates me.
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In the last few weeks, try to think of how many times you saw the offense false start or lineup incorrectly. How many holding calls or blocks in the back have you seen? Along the same lines how many times have you seen the defense jump offsides? How many cheap shots, face masks or undisciplined late hits have you seen? On STs, we're not getting penalized either. Now think about how undisciplined this team was in 2008 and there appears to be quite a bit of difference in these areas the media doesn't want our fanbase to see while they want Mangini gone as quickly as they wanted BB gone when he was here.
NOW, how many times have we seen our offense fumbling the ball away? I haven't seen many INTs either, which is more evidence of some decent coaching going on.
Last but not least, YOUNG players on this team are showing improvement or turning heads in recent weeks. Here's some examples:
1) TE Evan Moore - LOVED his game vrs San Diego and he had a nice catch vrs Pitt. I'm WAY more impressed with him than Royal.
2) LBer Marcus Benard - Wow! Plays made at or behind the line of scrimmage earns a double thumbs up!
3) WRer Chansi Stucky - seemingly getting better every week.
4) WR MoMass - the kid was even blocking well.
5) C Alex Mack - Had a very nice game against All Pro Casey Hampton.
6) LBer Kaluka Maiava - I liked the way he played against Balt & Pitt. Noticed most tackles near the line of scrimmage (+ .5 sack)
7) RB Chris Jennings - turning heads and clearly an upgrade over Jamal Lewis
P Reggie Hodges - he already has 12 punts inside the 20 for an avg of 40.9 yds and 3 touchbacks. Pretty impressive IMO.1st year newcomers like David Bowens and Matt Roth are huge sparks for this team. David Bowens flatout plays ball where-ever we need him. He definitely understands sic em and so does Roth.
- Tom F.
In the last few weeks, try to think of how many times you saw the offense false start or lineup incorrectly. How many holding calls or blocks in the back have you seen? Along the same lines how many times have you seen the defense jump offsides? How many cheap shots, face masks or undisciplined late hits have you seen? On STs, we're not getting penalized either. Now think about how undisciplined this team was in 2008 and there appears to be quite a bit of difference in these areas the media doesn't want our fanbase to see while they want Mangini gone as quickly as they wanted BB gone when he was here.
NOW, how many times have we seen our offense fumbling the ball away? I haven't seen many INTs either, which is more evidence of some decent coaching going on.
Last but not least, YOUNG players on this team are showing improvement or turning heads in recent weeks. Here's some examples:
1) TE Evan Moore - LOVED his game vrs San Diego and he had a nice catch vrs Pitt. I'm WAY more impressed with him than Royal.
2) LBer Marcus Benard - Wow! Plays made at or behind the line of scrimmage earns a double thumbs up!
3) WRer Chansi Stucky - seemingly getting better every week.
4) WR MoMass - the kid was even blocking well.
5) C Alex Mack - Had a very nice game against All Pro Casey Hampton.
6) LBer Kaluka Maiava - I liked the way he played against Balt & Pitt. Noticed most tackles near the line of scrimmage (+ .5 sack)
7) RB Chris Jennings - turning heads and clearly an upgrade over Jamal Lewis
P Reggie Hodges - he already has 12 punts inside the 20 for an avg of 40.9 yds and 3 touchbacks. Pretty impressive IMO.1st year newcomers like David Bowens and Matt Roth are huge sparks for this team. David Bowens flatout plays ball where-ever we need him. He definitely understands sic em and so does Roth.
- Tom F.
Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).
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daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.
thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.
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In the last few weeks, try to think of how many times you saw the offense false start or lineup incorrectly. How many holding calls or blocks in the back have you seen? Along the same lines how many times have you seen the defense jump offsides? How many cheap shots, face masks or undisciplined late hits have you seen? On STs, we're not getting penalized either. Now think about how undisciplined this team was in 2008 and there appears to be quite a bit of difference in these areas the media doesn't want our fanbase to see while they want Mangini gone as quickly as they wanted BB gone when he was here.
NOW, how many times have we seen our offense fumbling the ball away? I haven't seen many INTs either, which is more evidence of some decent coaching going on.
Last but not least, YOUNG players on this team are showing improvement or turning heads in recent weeks. Here's some examples:
1) TE Evan Moore - LOVED his game vrs San Diego and he had a nice catch vrs Pitt. I'm WAY more impressed with him than Royal.
2) LBer Marcus Benard - Wow! Plays made at or behind the line of scrimmage earns a double thumbs up!
3) WRer Chansi Stucky - seemingly getting better every week.
4) WR MoMass - the kid was even blocking well.
5) C Alex Mack - Had a very nice game against All Pro Casey Hampton.
6) LBer Kaluka Maiava - I liked the way he played against Balt & Pitt. Noticed most tackles near the line of scrimmage (+ .5 sack)
7) RB Chris Jennings - turning heads and clearly an upgrade over Jamal Lewis
P Reggie Hodges - he already has 12 punts inside the 20 for an avg of 40.9 yds and 3 touchbacks. Pretty impressive IMO.1st year newcomers like David Bowens and Matt Roth are huge sparks for this team. David Bowens flatout plays ball where-ever we need him. He definitely understands sic em and so does Roth.
- Tom F.
Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).
Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).
The Browns are tied with 3 teams with 65 penaties which puts them tied 5th for least penalized teams in the NFL after 13 games
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Good post. I was just thinking about the Browns not being penalized much this season. I tried looking up the correct stats to see where they ranked as a team, but couldn't find it. I did find enough info to let me know that the Browns were among the least penalized teams on st, o and d (the stats were individual and not collectively as a team).
The Browns are tied with 3 teams with 65 penaties which puts them tied 5th for least penalized teams in the NFL after 13 games
The Browns are tied with 3 teams with 65 penaties which puts them tied 5th for least penalized teams in the NFL after 13 games
That would be offensive penalties only. On defense, the Browns are a little further down the list.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats...p;dir=ascending
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daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.
thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.
daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.
thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.
I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye
Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing
Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?
how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open
Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)
Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)
How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute
Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.
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This is just a guess, but Daboll is most likely trying to give Quinn managable 3rd down distances.
3rd and 3..3rd and 4..Trying to help Quinn manage the game a little better..I understand weather conditions
but Thurs Quinn was WAY WAY off..just sayin
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I'm a business manager and I look at the Browns Football team from Lerner's perspective the same way as I look at any business. If I need a turnaround manager and hire someone as a change agent, I can't be trigger-happy with the guy when the stakeholders (in this case, players, media, fans) start applying pressure because the excellent results are not immediate.
Lerner made a commitment to Mangini. We all have to accept this and give him time to prove he is worthy. As I've said before, I am disappointed in our 2-11 season - but one season is not enough time to judge Mangini and I still like the 2009 draft choices and trades he made. Mangini has also made plenty of mistakes this year, but he seems to have the team playing some inspired, disciplined football, and has 11 draft choices and some cap space heading into 2010. I thnk he deserves our support for another two years.
As for Lerner, he also needs to realize that he needs to be more vocal in his support of Mangini. He should be telling us (and the media and the team) to give the guy a chance - just like we gave Davis and Crennel a chance. He also needs to score a touchdown on selecting the Czar. We need a real great football operations guy to take the reins and provide some elements that the Browns are badly missing. This could have been very helpful to Mangini this year ... but let's not revisit that, we need to go forward.
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daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.
thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.
I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye
Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing
Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?
how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open
Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)
Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)
How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute
Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.
I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye
Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing
Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?
how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open
Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)
Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)
How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute
Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.
I'm with you on that. I know winning changes everything, and we're all still on a little high from Thursday night, but I've been going back and watching some of the games I recorded. I've hated Daboll from the beginning, I didn't believe he would succeed. And he proved me right for the most part all season long. But, looking back, it does seem to be our execution (or lack thereof) that has been handicapping us. He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed. Daboll has been overly conservative at times, especially during the first Baltimore game, but I realized something. I think Mangini and Co. may have scrapped the season from the get-go, and I think Lerner knew about it and actually endorsed the idea. I'm not saying they threw games or anything of the sort, I do believe they honestly tried to win each game. But, I think they knew this season would be rough, and instead used each game almost as a practice session. Looking back at each game in succession, our offense has developed a little more each game. I know that it is typical of any team's offense to progress and develop throughout the season; to not peak too early, if you will. But it seems like, early in the season, when a play wasn't working, Daboll would continue to run it until everybody performed their assignments correctly. I know this isn't the case, and that I am completely off-base, but it is an interesting thing to think about.
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He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.
Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.
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He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.
Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.
He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.
Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.
Give Daboll
Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne
Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen
Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson
Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter
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He's been trying to implement a pretty difficult offense, and it's taken some time for the players to learn, that much is apparent. And running a play in practice is a lot different than running a play at game-speed.
Your right it is a complicated offense which is why Mangini preaches "smart" players along with tough and selfless. The Browns run no huddle the entire game with multiple shifts and motions within a single play..and there's no penalties for offsides, illegal formations or confusion on where and when to go. Do people have any idea how hard that is to do, never mind doing it in a no huddle scenerio? I'm not a big beleiver in play calling, its the execution of the play. You think Indy's OC.(which is Peyton by the way) makes all these great calls..I don't think so..Having # 18 throwing the rock is the reason those plays work or the threat of him throwing the rock.
Give Daboll
Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne
Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen
Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson
Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter
Give Daboll
Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne
Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen
Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson
Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter
Exactly! Trying playing chess with just pawns against somebody that has all the attack pieces and then think about Daboll's challenge at hand. Staying with me, the FIRST time he faced an opponent that had the same issues in Detroit - let's take a look and see if he stunk or scored (his job was vrs the defense). Before anyone corrects me, I think supervising your offense for 37 points is a good day at the office and if we lost - you can't really blame the offense.
Reminders of what he CAN do when he has the SAME talent level as the opponent:
TD 08:56 Mohamed Massaquoi 59 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 10 Det 3
TD 04:03 Chansi Stuckey 40 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 17 Det 3
TD 02:52 Joshua Cribbs 4 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Phil Dawson Kick) Cleve 24 Det 3
TD 05:44 Michael Gaines 2 Yd Pass From Brady Quinn (Jamal Lewis Run For Two-Point Conversion) Cleve 37 Det 31
- I really only see 1 superstar scoring in that mix.
In conclusion, we NEVER got better when we replaced Mo Carthon with Jeff Davidson because the talent, experience and chemistry from ongoign line-up changes made the task at hand almost absurd. Last year, Chud's offense looked like those offenses (which made us quickly forget 10 wins the year before). Unfortunately, there's no magic wand for offensive coordinators that supercedes their chess pieces. EXPERIENCE & CHEMISTRY will make many of our chess pieces better (but not overnight) so I'm at least glad our OC gets that. Could that be why we're not getting overwhelmed into 1st and 15 or 1st and 20? I really believe it is. When Marty turned our team around in the 80s, his first year (or part year) we only saw Byner near the end and he looked promising. The next year we added Kevin Mack, Dan Fike and a few other key variables and all of a sudden we knew our OC's name was Lindy Infante as the transition from Danielson to Kosar took form and we went 8-8 with 2 RBs gaining over 1000 yards. Bernie's 2nd season of starting, led to 12-4 and a Conference Championship appearance at home. That's the experience and chemistry part I mentioned. Lindy went to a terrible Green Bay team and the fans there weren't nearly as impressed with him as we were.
- Tom F.
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Give Daboll
Manning,Addai,Clark,Wayne
Farve,Petersen,Rice, Harvin,Berrimen
Rivers,Tomlinson,Gates ,Sprouls,Jefferson
Then see if suddenly gets a little smarter
You damn straight..Think Mangini would be undefeated if he was the HC in Indy?
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daboll can't be defended, running every single first down up the middle. I'm sorry, but if you are gonna do that, throw a PA in on first down every now and then to do something with it. our team plays with one less down than other teams because of his playcalling. everyone knows we run up the middle on first down, and they usually stop it for no gain.
thats a problem, not to mention how many times he'll run up the middle again on 2nd and long, and force us into a 3rd and long passing situation. look at the game vs the steelers, almoast every third down we had was 10+ yards. then you try and convert that with a pass, that they know is coming. he is too predictable, and his playcalling is horrible.
I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye
Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing
Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?
how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open
Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)
Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)
How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute
Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.
I've been one of posters calling for Dabolls head ,but reassessing his work this season I've seen more positives than originally meets the eye
Yes,running on first down has been incredibly predictable,but running JLew on first as opposed to what Jennings looked like on Thurs.(except for the 4th qtr when Jennings seemed to wear down) really opened my eyes to the fact that it wasn't so much the plays...as it was the players not executing
Think about how many times we ran Lewis on 3rd an short this year only to watch him run into his own player or go down on first contact ?
how about BQ or DA completely missing a wide open target on 3rd and long when the whole stadium knew we were passing, yet the receiver was wide open
Or how many dropped passes on a catchable ball that would have been minimum first down?(and alot of times much much more)
Has either QB been able to hit Jerrome Harrison in the flat in stride ?(like Rivers to Sprouls)
How is any of this Dabolls fault?think back how many times he's had us in the right play, only we didn't execute
Again I'm not going to shed any tears if Daboll gets shit canned at the end of the year,but the more i look at what he's done ,with what he's had to work with ...I don't think he's been the worst offensive coordinator we've seen here.
I've been saying this since week 2 and have gotten nothing but shit about it so watch what you say. As soon as we lose again, you'll get blasted for this type of accurate asessment.
PS. I also said J. Lew wasn't done in week 2 rather, I said it was too soon to tell. Well, on that, I was really, really wrong.
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