Mike Holmgren's first challenge? Is Eric Mangini the right choice on the sidelines
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Note to Bud Shaw: STFU!
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>>But don't ruin what Mangini started.>>
What did he start? You got to be kidding.
I hope the door doesn't hit Mangini on the way out. Parcells canned Cameron after one year and there is no reason that Holmgren will keep Mangini around either.
what did he start? Discipline.
what did he start? Discipline.
Why not just hire a school marm? Or an old Nun?
Our town's High School team was very disciplined this year. They stunk but they were sure disciplined!!!
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>>But don't ruin what Mangini started.>>
What did he start? You got to be kidding.
I hope the door doesn't hit Mangini on the way out. Parcells canned Cameron after one year and there is no reason that Holmgren will keep Mangini around either.
>>But don't ruin what Mangini started.>>
What did he start? You got to be kidding.
I hope the door doesn't hit Mangini on the way out. Parcells canned Cameron after one year and there is no reason that Holmgren will keep Mangini around either.
You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
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what did he start? Discipline.
Why not just hire a school marm? Or an old Nun?
Our town's High School team was very disciplined this year. They stunk but they were sure disciplined!!!
Why not just hire a school marm? Or an old Nun?
Our town's High School team was very disciplined this year. They stunk but they were sure disciplined!!!
Really? How can we discuss anything with you when you have replies like this.
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>>But don't ruin what Mangini started.>>
What did he start? You got to be kidding.
I hope the door doesn't hit Mangini on the way out. Parcells canned Cameron after one year and there is no reason that Holmgren will keep Mangini around either.
You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
And only one reason to fire him. He doesn't leak information out of Berea to the media. WHAT A DICK!! I'm with you jantz, the guy's doing what nobody else has had the courage to do since 99. He's tackling the hard parts of the process first. He's installing a plan and a future for this franchise. He's BUILDING a franchise not REbuilding. He has done everything pefectly and it has taken an obscene amount of courage to do it. He has already changed the culture and attitude of the team which I thought would be impossible and it almost was. It took the players 10 weeks to realize he is here to stay and they better quit pouting nad play football. Despite the most talentless roster in sports, he has them playing together like we haven't seen since Marty. We may only have 3 wins but we won ech of those games with no talent and more importantly, we won them in 3 different ways! That tells me this group of players are basically willing themselves to victory despite having no talent. That speaks volumes about what he has done.
Big Show has to see that and more, and be happy he has this type of coach on his team. He would be a fool not to.
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>>But don't ruin what Mangini started.>>
What did he start? You got to be kidding.
I hope the door doesn't hit Mangini on the way out. Parcells canned Cameron after one year and there is no reason that Holmgren will keep Mangini around either.
You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
He's never played ANYTHING obviously because he thinks it works like PS3. One draft and one free agency and a champion you have built. That's the mentality that is against Mangini and it's basically 5th graders and the media.
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You never played organized team sports, did you? What did he start? He started a team that has shown more of an identity than any Browns team since their return. He's not out to make friends, he's out to create a unit and a structure. He cares about this football program and wants to turn it into something that will be built to last, rather than built for now (RAC and Savage era). If you think that any Browns teams since their return has more of an identity and more "structure" and knowledge of what they want to accomplish than this team at this exact point - then you are just kidding yourself. I don't care about Cameron. Cameron was a completely different coach, with a style similar to RAC - what's good right now, who's good right now, what can I do - right now.
If we fire Mangini we will regret it. There's no denying that. There is thousands of reasons to keep Mangini.
He's never played ANYTHING obviously because he thinks it works like PS3. One draft and one free agency and a champion you have built. That's the mentality that is against Mangini and it's basically 5th graders and the media.
He's never played ANYTHING obviously because he thinks it works like PS3. One draft and one free agency and a champion you have built. That's the mentality that is against Mangini and it's basically 5th graders and the media.
Exactly. ESPN has killed Mangini's reputation with the world. If you knew how professional sports were ran, and how a football dynasty should be built - you'd agree with EVERY decision Mangini has made. And I have. -
Do some of you know anything, other than the results you see on Sportscenter? Some of you are just plain non-knowledge and ridiculous sounding in your posts. This team was in shambles before Eric Mangini took over - we had 0 depth, we had less draft picks than we ever had, and we had members of this organization that were upset that we now have a coach that would rather hit em across the head and make sure they do it right - rather than go out and buy them a drink. The team you see now, is 30 times different than the team you saw 2 months ago. This team is starting to create and identity, this team is starting to gain a sense of self-worth, and they are starting to form into a unit.
Mangini took this job because he wanted to start from square one, he wanted to develop his own teams - his own identity. He didn' want pre-madonna's out there that were worried about their fantasy stats more then how good their block was. He's getting a certain type of player, and it's showing. If you thought this team was going to be a .500 team, you had absolutely known nothing about this team. Not only have we cut salary cap - but we'v cut unecesarry contracts as much as we could - we've added 17 men to our organization that has played in more games this year then they had the year previously (depth), and we've added 4-6 draft picks.
The New England Patriots hired Bill Belichek in 2000. That year, the Patriots went 5-11. Bill through people out of the organization, he brought in people - he created his identity, he created his unit to how he wanted it done. He didn't care if your names was Bledsoe or Glenn - if you didn't fit and want to play, you weren't playing, and you we're on your way out. The next year, 2001 - Bill and the Patriots went 11-5, and went on to win the Super Bowl and create an absolute dynasty. I see that in Mangini - I see that in his attitude and demeanour, and it is unfair and unjust to not give Mr. Mangini more time to develop this team into how he sees it. This team was in absolute dissaray before he got here, once he finishes - we will be no longer hoping for sub .500 seasons, we will get seasons that are more successfull.
The hiring of Mike Holmgren was a good one. He can add a demention of scouting and football operations that Mangini can't cover - but do not take away the role from Mangini. This is his football team, and needs to be his football team.
Mike H.
HC - Mangini
DC - Rob Ryan
OC - Fire Drabol, bring in Jim Zorn or Weis
We're going to be fine. It's going to be fun. But don't ruin what Mangini started.
He didn' want pre-madonna's out there that were worried about their fantasy stats more then how good their block was.
He didn't want prima donnas either. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
He didn' want pre-madonna's out there that were worried about their fantasy stats more then how good their block was.
He didn't want prima donnas either. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
He didn't want prima donnas either. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Thank you. I've been biting my tongue on that matter for quite a long time. What the hell is a pre-madonna? A person born before Madonna?
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He didn't want prima donnas either. (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)
Thank you. I've been biting my tongue on that matter for quite a long time. What the hell is a pre-madonna? A person born before Madonna?
Thank you. I've been biting my tongue on that matter for quite a long time. What the hell is a pre-madonna? A person born before Madonna?
:lol, my bad indeed. That is what I get for typing a long response on my blackberry. I had seemingly spelled it wrong, and now pay the consequences of technology. Anywho, back to the subject at hand shall we?
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Gee Bud this is not another biased article about Mangini is it? he asked a question in his header and answers it one way.his way
Bud Shaw is exactly whats wrong with the media around here..bash..bash ..bash. I'm so sick of this negative garbage I want to puke
As a guy who likes mangini, I have to say I also like Shaw.
While there is no doubt about Shaw's position, I don't think he asks unfair questions.
Switching coaches at this point wouldn't do much to momentum.
If Holmgren isn't 100% satisfied that Mangini is his type of guy, keeping him would be a mistake.
If you aren't 100% sure you want the woman, and aren't 100% sure she feels the same way about you, then you best go separate ways.
JMO
While Holmgren will be the Prez...I am sure he will want to add his 2 cents worth in planning meeting. He needs to have a coach who is going to listen rather then let it go in on ear and out the other.
If we don't stick with Mangini, I think Mooch and Gruden become to top of the list guys. Both come from the Holmgren tree, so a lot of what they do was shaped my Holmgren, and Holmgren has a working relationship with both, which should help put him at ease and allow the coach to coach as I am sure Holgren knows you can't micro-manage that position.
If we don't stick with Mangini, I think Mooch and Gruden become to top of the list guys. Both come from the Holmgren tree, so a lot of what they do was shaped my Holmgren, and Holmgren has a working relationship with both, which should help put him at ease and allow the coach to coach as I am sure Holgren knows you can't micro-manage that position.
I think being able to get either one of these guys out of the broadcast booth is part of the decision whether we keep Mangini or not. If they both turned down Holmgren, Mangini is likely to stay, but I think if Holmgren can get "his" guy, Mangini will be gone.
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I will be disappointed in Lerner if he gave te keys to Holmgren and didn't say "One small condition, EM has worked his ass off taking a mess and turning it into a disciplined team, with 11 draft picks and cap room. Work with him, at least for a year, and see if you can bridge your philosophies. If after a year, it still doesn't work, then the decision is for you to make.
That's what I would have done. I know there is no loyalty in the NFL business world ...but most people are not ruthless. They don't throw deserving people under a bus unless it is absolutely necessary, and they at least make an effort to keep thier promises. I sincerely hope that the evaluation of EM is a fair process.
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It would be insane to dump Mangini... ive noticed a trend of fewer penalties in the last few games, can you imagine what rob ryan could do if he had impact defensive players?
The offense has rookie skill players Momass is not a true number one reciever...... stuckey is a number three.... Robo any one seen robo....bueller, bueller.... Tight ends... well we got some new guy in the last couple of weeks,, some number two reciever who ran someone over drunk..... Furrey who is playing both ways.... Harrison (he had a good game but really the Oline had a great game) seems to suddenly come on... but consistently? we dont know....
tons of draft picks and and cap space.... how many players did Mangini cut that were on the team that are now totally out of the NFL? A TON.... he cleaned house set up a draft and free agency for year tow, installed decispline in one of the most undisciplined franchise in the NFL..... Honestly 3 games maybe 4 games this year matches last year and with all the house cleaning and rooks, imports..... I have to say I like the direction we seem to be going in....
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He's never played ANYTHING obviously because he thinks it works like PS3. One draft and one free agency and a champion you have built. That's the mentality that is against Mangini and it's basically 5th graders and the media.
Exactly. ESPN has killed Mangini's reputation with the world. If you knew how professional sports were ran, and how a football dynasty should be built - you'd agree with EVERY decision Mangini has made. And I have. Exactly. ESPN has killed Mangini's reputation with the world. If you knew how professional sports were ran, and how a football dynasty should be built - you'd agree with EVERY decision Mangini has made. And I have.Mangini killed his own reputation - except for Boy Lerner - when his team quit on him during last season's playoff run.
He is out of Cleveland and I will be very happy to see him go.
Just for the record...............
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He's never played ANYTHING obviously because he thinks it works like PS3. One draft and one free agency and a champion you have built. That's the mentality that is against Mangini and it's basically 5th graders and the media.
Exactly. ESPN has killed Mangini's reputation with the world. If you knew how professional sports were ran, and how a football dynasty should be built - you'd agree with EVERY decision Mangini has made. And I have. Exactly. ESPN has killed Mangini's reputation with the world. If you knew how professional sports were ran, and how a football dynasty should be built - you'd agree with EVERY decision Mangini has made. And I have.EXCEPT for sticking with jamal lewis for so long (as opposed to james davis, harrison, even jennings...) but even some of that was a smart move politically.
but you guys are right.
i'm really not concerned that Holmgren will dump mangini. am I the only one that's confident?
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