The West Coast Offense and the Effect on the Browns
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Nice analysis overall. A few points:
TE: I think Evan Moore can be a very good TE in the WCO. Having been a WR in college, he has the skillset. He has also shown good rapport with Quinn.
WR: Yikes! If Cleveland can get Golden Tate outside the first day, that would be a great fit for them. I don't know if he'll still be around though. He'd be the perfect slot receiver. Short of that, I'd rather see Cleveland go after a veteran WR who has great hands even if not great speed.
Nice analysis overall. A few points:
TE: I think Evan Moore can be a very good TE in the WCO. Having been a WR in college, he has the skillset. He has also shown good rapport with Quinn.
WR: Yikes! If Cleveland can get Golden Tate outside the first day, that would be a great fit for them. I don't know if he'll still be around though. He'd be the perfect slot receiver. Short of that, I'd rather see Cleveland go after a veteran WR who has great hands even if not great speed.
Tate would be perfect. He's great in traffic and has hands of glue.
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tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there. if we even look at WR it should be a big guy with speed to be a no 1. momass is too stupid to run routes, too wimpy to fight for the ball, and too small to make the big catches. if you notice most of the passes that seem very very off target and to no one, are usually momass' route, and thats because hes running the wrong rout. i must have wated like 5-6 passes this season that were clearly cut backs, and momass just keeps running down field.
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tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there. if we even look at WR it should be a big guy with speed to be a no 1. momass is too stupid to run routes, too wimpy to fight for the ball, and too small to make the big catches. if you notice most of the passes that seem very very off target and to no one, are usually momass' route, and thats because hes running the wrong rout. i must have wated like 5-6 passes this season that were clearly cut backs, and momass just keeps running down field.
tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
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The West Coast Offense (WCO) is an offensive system loosely based on the Air Coryell system established by the Hall of Fame coach Don Coryell. Bill Walsh perfected the system that emphasizes more passing than running. Originated in the 1960's by teams like the Chargers, Raiders, and even Coryell's own Cardinals (St. Louis at the time), the Air Coryell is a system that has been greatly used by teams more and more each season. It was Bill Walsh who perfected what is now called the WCO.
This is not correct. Air Coryell and the WCO are linked by mistaken nomenclature. The 70-80s Chargers and Oakland ran the Coryell system, which, because of their location, was dubbed the WCO. Ironically, a sports illustrated reporter misquoted our own Bernie Kosar and used the term WCO to describe the offense that Bill Walsh ran with the 49ers which he began to develop in Cincinnati. That mistaken nomenclature stuck.
Air Coryell is a vertical passing attack. The WCO is a horizontal passing attack. The two are almost extreme opposites in philosophy and required personnel. Air Coryell stretches the defense vertically with fast receivers and big arm QBs, WCO stretches the defense horizontally with and relies on physical, YAC receivers and deadly accurate mobile QBs.
This is not correct. Air Coryell and the WCO are linked by mistaken nomenclature. The 70-80s Chargers and Oakland ran the Coryell system, which, because of their location, was dubbed the WCO. Ironically, a sports illustrated reporter misquoted our own Bernie Kosar and used the term WCO to describe the offense that Bill Walsh ran with the 49ers which he began to develop in Cincinnati. That mistaken nomenclature stuck.
Air Coryell is a vertical passing attack. The WCO is a horizontal passing attack. The two are almost extreme opposites in philosophy and required personnel. Air Coryell stretches the defense vertically with fast receivers and big arm QBs, WCO stretches the defense horizontally with and relies on physical, YAC receivers and deadly accurate mobile QBs.
good call chip
air coryell was a "down the field passing game"
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tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
Good point on Tate. I like Shipley even better, though.
Funny you mention Boldin. That's the guy that I liken Robiskie to. Not that I think Robiskie is as good as Boldin or even that it's likely that he'll get there. But Boldin is not a guy who's running around the field with 4 yard separation. He's a guy that makes a lot of back shoulder catches and catches coming out of his breaks and benefits from having Fitz on the other side of the field. The problem is that we don't have a QB that can throw through tight windows when receivers don't have good separation. On Robiskie's one big catch and run against the Chargers, we saw Robiskie use his body to shield the defender, secure the catch and add something on the run. That's the kind of receiver he is. Both of our QBs struggle with their accuracy, though. Quinn throws to the open receiver. Robiskie needs a guy that is comfortable with throwing the receiver open.
I hope that Robiskie hits the weight room. He also needs to be sharper coming out of his breaks. He looks like he "glides" in and out of his breaks to me. A guy like JJ could have been a great mentor to Robiskie. Too bad the Cleveland Clinic screwed that up. You'd think that the "surgeons must wash their hands before returning to the OR" signs on the bathroom windows would have worked.
I'm not for trading our high second round pick for Boldin. I like Boldin, but we need the pick to lock up a solid starter quality player of 5 years at a cap friendly price -- that's what we should get for a second rounder. If we are switching to a WCO, we need a lot more help than just one receiver. The Browns need to continue building the right way. The right way is not trading picks for high priced veterans that almost surely will not be as effective in their new environment. That was the Savage way.
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Nice analysis. I'm not sold on Quinn being an accurate west coast QB, he does not remind me of Montana or Steve Young.
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While the WCO will present some challenges, we aren't void of players to make that move work.
I think the potential switch to a 4-3 D is going to expose a larger void of players.
If we go 4-3, I would expect this to be a defensive heavy draft. We will need a couple more hand on the ground players, and I don't think DJ is a 4-3 MLB...so we need to find one of those as well.
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However, many people proclaimed that Brady Quinn would be an ideal candidate for a WCO, coming out of Notre Dame. Quinn was very efficient at Notre Dame
Well unfortunately for the Browns, Air Force, Army and Navy are not on the schedule for 2010.
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While the WCO will present some challenges, we aren't void of players to make that move work.
I think the potential switch to a 4-3 D is going to expose a larger void of players.
If we go 4-3, I would expect this to be a defensive heavy draft. We will need a couple more hand on the ground players, and I don't think DJ is a 4-3 MLB...so we need to find one of those as well.
While the WCO will present some challenges, we aren't void of players to make that move work.
I think the potential switch to a 4-3 D is going to expose a larger void of players.
If we go 4-3, I would expect this to be a defensive heavy draft. We will need a couple more hand on the ground players, and I don't think DJ is a 4-3 MLB...so we need to find one of those as well.
Thanks. I tried to get this conversation going earlier. A lot of people have said we have good 4-3 personnel, but I absolutely disagree. We have 4-3 defensive tackles, I agree. We don't have one 4-3 DE who could supply a pass rush. We have a bunch of Tweener college DEs who are 3-4 OLBers in Wimbley, Roth and Veikune.
Dqwell Jackson is not a 4-3 inside linebacker. I think we need to start fresh with linebackers for the 4-3. Regardless, we absolutely need a safety and a corner.
I don't necessarily think we have great WCO personnel. To start with, I'm not sold on Quinn as a WCO QB. I wouldn't be surprised if an offensive minded ex coach like Holmgren doesn't work with his GM to bring in TWO of his own guys at QB -- maybe Seneca Wallace in a trade and Colt McCoy in the second round.
We don't have the YAC stud receiver for the WCO, and Dez Bryant is going to be sitting in that 5-6 slot where the Browns will pick with most the sure-fire studs off the board.
Mack and Thomas will probably be okay in the WCO. Maybe Steinbach. The rest of the O-line will not even be serviceable.
Dennis Pitta (BYU) is going to look pretty good in the third round as a WCO TE if he's still there. I actually might take Max Hall (BYU) in the 6th. I like the kid and think he might be a decent guy to work with.
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I don't want to watch the WCO, I want to see the North Coast Offense. New, original, intimidating, and all Browns.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
However, many people proclaimed that Brady Quinn would be an ideal candidate for a WCO, coming out of Notre Dame. Quinn was very efficient at Notre Dame
Well unfortunately for the Browns, Air Force, Army and Navy are not on the schedule for 2010.
However, many people proclaimed that Brady Quinn would be an ideal candidate for a WCO, coming out of Notre Dame. Quinn was very efficient at Notre Dame
Well unfortunately for the Browns, Air Force, Army and Navy are not on the schedule for 2010.
You're probably a Derek Anderson fan who thinks that he should have been named the NFL MVP after his 2007 season in which he threw 20 of his 29 TD's to teams that drafted in the top 9 in the 2008 NFL Draft.
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I don't want to watch the WCO, I want to see the North Coast Offense. New, original, intimidating, and all Browns.
I don't want to watch the WCO, I want to see the North Coast Offense. New, original, intimidating, and all Browns.
Yep, that white stuff called snow and mud will slow down most west coast offenses.
Great Point, Kathy
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While the WCO will present some challenges, we aren't void of players to make that move work.
I think the potential switch to a 4-3 D is going to expose a larger void of players.
If we go 4-3, I would expect this to be a defensive heavy draft. We will need a couple more hand on the ground players, and I don't think DJ is a 4-3 MLB...so we need to find one of those as well.
Thanks. I tried to get this conversation going earlier. A lot of people have said we have good 4-3 personnel, but I absolutely disagree. We have 4-3 defensive tackles, I agree. We don't have one 4-3 DE who could supply a pass rush. We have a bunch of Tweener college DEs who are 3-4 OLBers in Wimbley, Roth and Veikune.
Dqwell Jackson is not a 4-3 inside linebacker. I think we need to start fresh with linebackers for the 4-3. Regardless, we absolutely need a safety and a corner.
I don't necessarily think we have great WCO personnel. To start with, I'm not sold on Quinn as a WCO QB. I wouldn't be surprised if an offensive minded ex coach like Holmgren doesn't work with his GM to bring in TWO of his own guys at QB -- maybe Seneca Wallace in a trade and Colt McCoy in the second round.
We don't have the YAC stud receiver for the WCO, and Dez Bryant is going to be sitting in that 5-6 slot where the Browns will pick with most the sure-fire studs off the board.
Mack and Thomas will probably be okay in the WCO. Maybe Steinbach. The rest of the O-line will not even be serviceable.
Dennis Pitta (BYU) is going to look pretty good in the third round as a WCO TE if he's still there. I actually might take Max Hall (BYU) in the 6th. I like the kid and think he might be a decent guy to work with.
Dqwell Jackson is not a 4-3 inside linebacker.
I wouldn't dismiss him that quickly. The Walrus loves Lofa Tatupu, a 4-3 ILB with similar size/speed numbers. Tatupu's very instinctive, something that DQ might show more of if he's kept clean by two big DT's.
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I don't want to watch the WCO, I want to see the North Coast Offense. New, original, intimidating, and all Browns.
Yep, that white stuff called snow and mud will slow down most west coast offenses.
Great Point, Kathy
Yep, that white stuff called snow and mud will slow down most west coast offenses.
Great Point, Kathy
Not necessarilly true. Short to mid range low risk passes in conditions in which the receivers know where the ball is going to be and what route to run, but the defense does not gives the offense a significant strategic advantage. All it takes is a QB who can adjust his timing and knows that the receivers are going to be slightly slowed by the conditions. The defense wouldn't have a chance.
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tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
Not gonna lie.
I f-ing love Anquan Boldin.
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tate is an inferior version of robo. robo has great hands and runs good routes, no need to waste a pick on tate when you can just use robo there.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
I don't see Robiskie and Tate as being very similar receivers: Robiskie's a tall possession receiver, Tate's a smaller guy with great YAC ability. Sure, both have good hands, but so do a lot of receivers.
Another sure-handed receiver to keep an eye on is Anquan Boldin. Adam Schefter has predicted that Boldin will be traded this offseason, and Holmgren said the following on the October 16th broadcast of his radio show:
"I think Boldin, I think - as weird as this sounds - I think Boldin's he's kind of the underrated guy. He's the one, he's the straw that stirs it up."
(The host asks why)
"Well, I just think he is so strong. He is so strong in his hands, he runs after the catch. He reminds me so much of Sterling Sharpe when I had Sterling in Green Bay. He is tough: he's a big, strong man."
Last year, the rumored selling price for Boldin was a 2nd round pick, so it's likely that our early 2nd would be enough to make Boldin a Brown.
Also, it's possible that the Cardinals would be interested in Shaun Rogers, especially if they're going for one last SB run with Warner. They've got age and inconsistent younguns at nose tackle, and a three man line of Dockett, Rogers, and Campbell would be ridiculously dominant.
So if Holmgren wants Boldin, it seems like he's got the resources to make a move.
Not gonna lie.
I f-ing love Anquan Boldin.
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for what it's worth, i say we focus on a switch to 4-3, then add a building block or two to the offense.
change takes time. one step at a time.
Defense is a priority playing in our division.
It's gotta come first.
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Huge fan of Boldin. Highest YPG in the history of the NFL. That's serious.
As for Robiskie and Tate, I think Tate is a crazy dynamic guy. I like Robiskie, but he isn't anywhere near the big play threat Tate is. Huge key plays all year, against every team.
Michigan: 9-115, 2 TDs
Michigan State: 7-127, TD
USC: 8-117, 2 TDs
Pitt: 9-113, TD
Stanford: 10-201, 3 TDs
He had no bad games on the season, and only one where he didn't score (first game of the season, vs. Nevada).
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